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So am I totally in the minority here for thinking that a significant number of people who aren't directly caught up in climate change induced violence and migration could actually end up happier and more mentally well adjusted in a few decades? I don't want to downplay the substantial amount of pain and suffering that the world will experience as entire social systems collapse and the surviving political structures turn into politically reactionary gated communities but on some level I can't help but wonder whether people won't end up mentally healthier in a post climate change world where a lot of contemporary consumerism becomes nonviable. It depends on exactly how things play out of course but I think there are actually some real potential upsides in terms of mental health and life satisfaction that might come along with the destruction of the global economy.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:09
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Helsing posted:So am I totally in the minority here for thinking that a significant number of people who aren't directly caught up in climate change induced violence and migration could actually end up happier and more mentally well adjusted in a few decades? Please read up on the local effects of the collapse of the USSR.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:22
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 at the last few pages. Whew.LOL that "being an rear end in a top hat I personally disagree with as a mod" eats a 30 day probation on SA of all places now, though. What a world we live in. 
Bob Ross Nuke Test fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jul 21, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2019 22:28
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Conspiratiorist posted:Please read up on the local effects of the collapse of the USSR. Please read up on the first sentence of the post you quoted.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:30
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I keep seeing things about looking local and learning about your environment and what grows/lives there to handle society collapsing, and I think to myself "are you sure that there's going to be a recognizable ecosystem at 3C+ from now?" I can't help but feel that it's terribly optimistic to believe that there's going to be a way to handle 3C+ temperature increases in a fashion that involves decentralizing, detechnologizing and going back to the land, given the massive extinctions (including very fundamental bits of the food chain) that are going to be happening. The societies that existed as few as a couple hundred years ago were much more tied to exploiting wild parts of the planet that are looking like they flat out won't exist when the time comes.
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Jan 20, 2019 22:44
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Helsing posted:Please read up on the first sentence of the post you quoted. I did and the answer is yes you're in the minority, hence my response. People who aren't directly involved in violence and migration are still going to feel the effects of a global logistic chains collapse, various state functions fall apart as they become unsustainable, and suffer through a permanent economic depression. What do you think are the positive upsides of this? What historical analogues do you have to back them? Complications posted:I keep seeing things about looking local and learning about your environment and what grows/lives there to handle society collapsing, and I think to myself "are you sure that there's going to be a recognizable ecosystem at 3C+ from now?" I can't help but feel that it's terribly optimistic to believe that there's going to be a way to handle 3C+ temperature increases in a fashion that involves decentralizing, detechnologizing and going back to the land, given the massive extinctions (including very fundamental bits of the food chain) that are going to be happening. The societies that existed as few as a couple hundred years ago were much more tied to exploiting wild parts of the planet that are looking like they flat out won't exist when the time comes. Oh, no, "going back to the land" and "detechnologizing" is the opposite of a solution. You're correct, we can't - the ecosystem just won't be there to sustain that lifestyle. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 20, 2019 |
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Jan 20, 2019 22:52
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THE BEATWEAVER posted:
Aside from those afflicted with the most terminal brokebrainedness, I think we all cycle through those varieties of hope from time to time. I do think that surviving and adapting to climate change will require that those of us who are left form better societies than what we have now--more cooperative, less wasteful, and not so disposable. quote:
This is pretty not good. Yeah, what?
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Jan 20, 2019 22:59
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Helsing posted:So am I totally in the minority here for thinking that a significant number of people who aren't directly caught up in climate change induced violence and migration could actually end up happier and more mentally well adjusted in a few decades? The amount of suffering fixed by infectious disease control and the green revolution is not something that is going to be a net positive to reverse.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:01
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Hey, if we're lucky, maybe bacteriophage treatments will mature enough over the next two decades that we won't be having to deal with superbugs as social security nets collapse.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:05
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I'm currently reading a book called drawdown, which shows the 100 most effective methods of reducing ghg emissions and transforming society into something that can reverse global warming (I can already mentally see certain posters reaction to that statement) . I'm not far in but it seems to be trying for the more hopeful side of things and has a few hundred scientists and experts being it supplying the underlying information and modeling. I'm gonna report on it here when I'm done, did anybody else read it by chance?
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Jan 20, 2019 23:13
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Sogol posted:Survival of the fittest is not exactly a real thing. It relies on assuming natural selection functions as a variable, implying the individual organism as the unit of analysis and competition as the context for growth and development. Darwin never mentions it. If you assume for instance that selection is a constant, trait selection becomes a co-production of the entire niche. Attention is on and meaning derived from the understanding of the collaborative action of the niche in this case. It is a very different way of seeing things and leads to very different actions, interventions and conclusions. The application of selection as a variable and competition as the means for growth and development underpins the dominant paradigm of capitalism and seems self evident to most moderns in the industrialized world. I went to a pretty cool talk about trees and fungi and inter-species cooperation, feeding each other when they need or transferring resources to others if you're dying. Suzanne Simard I think it was.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:19
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:I forced a bot to read over 1000 hours of systems theory texts and asked it to write a post. Here is the first post. Haha
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Jan 20, 2019 23:19
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THE BEATWEAVER posted:LOL that "being an rear end in a top hat I personally disagree with as a mod" eats a 30 day probation on SA of all places now, though. What a world we live in. lmao it owns
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Jan 20, 2019 23:34
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THE BEATWEAVER posted:LOL that "being an rear end in a top hat I personally disagree with as a mod" eats a 30 day probation on SA of all places now, though. What a world we live in. If the mods want to tone-police I guess we can't stop them, but that probation is excessive, and telling Rime not to come back to the thread is just stupid. Censoring or excluding specific posters is far more discouraging to participation than anything Rime has posted.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:34
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Wait it was 30 days what the gently caress He got painfully pedantic on the yellow vests discussion but goddamn.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:36
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It's excessive and to tell him not to come back is pretty chilling. ::dons yellow vest::
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Jan 20, 2019 23:38
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ubachung posted:If the mods want to tone-police I guess we can't stop them, but that probation is excessive, and telling Rime not to come back to the thread is just stupid. Censoring or excluding specific posters is far more discouraging to participation than anything Rime has posted.  Throw him a sixer or a day or two, but 30 days and a "gently caress off" is over the top. He's got valid points, even if he is bleak as gently caress about it.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:51
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THE BEATWEAVER posted:
is this guy considered reputable? there isn't a lot of information on him online except that he is (or was) big into crypto which is a bit of a red flag. although i'm sure he would recognize its environmental impacts. I'm reading his Deep Adaptation paper and it's very much inline with what I believe personally. Also his paper was apparently not accepted for publication.
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Jan 20, 2019 23:56
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KozmoNaut posted:He's got valid points, even if he is bleak as gently caress about it. He uses truth bombs to justify posting some pretty abhorrent poo poo. I agree banning from the thread is a little harsh, but as to not derail let's post about that in QCS https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3880128 Edit for content Yes it seems we are full steam ahead towards the iceberg on this titanic of industry. Accepting that reality is important. But instead of making plans to fight over flotsam to float on (Rime's post alludes to this), we can make plans to build an arc, or any number of more compationate options. Epitope fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 00:03
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In lieu of hope I am driven to stay alive by empathy for people who are worse off than me, a sense of duty to "make the world a better place" by the time I die than when I was born and a desire to learn stuff. So even though we are doomed I try to help people be less ignorant and maybe help influence decisions made by people with power that impact our future.
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Jan 21, 2019 00:19
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I still think if at the end of the day your argument for action on climate change is no different than BP's or Shell's or to call for even less response, its probably a bad plan.
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Jan 21, 2019 01:03
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quote:Your problem, Rime, is not that you do not understand the issue or that you are not intelligent as such, your problem is that you're a huge rear end in a top hat who drives everyone else out of this thread. Don't come back when your probation is over. User loses posting privileges for 1 month.
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Jan 21, 2019 02:35
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It's appropriate to be angry about climate change and the lot we've drawn. I liked his posts.
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Jan 21, 2019 02:46
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Son of Rodney posted:I'm currently reading a book called drawdown, which shows the 100 most effective methods of reducing ghg emissions and transforming society into something that can reverse global warming (I can already mentally see certain posters reaction to that statement) . I'm not far in but it seems to be trying for the more hopeful side of things and has a few hundred scientists and experts being it supplying the underlying information and modeling. I'm gonna report on it here when I'm done, did anybody else read it by chance? I haven't read the book but i've seen the ted talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vjGSiRGKY and the website: https://www.drawdown.org/ imho the talk is very pro-watch
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Jan 21, 2019 02:49
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StabbinHobo posted:this is horseshit. he sourced the hell out of his points, you're just shooting the messenger. I think you missed a "not" in your interpretation. It says he does know but is an insufferable rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 21, 2019 02:57
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StabbinHobo posted:this is horseshit. he sourced the hell out of his points, you're just shooting the messenger. Rime has been warned and probated so many times for the same poo poo in every iteration of Climate Change thread that to imply this wasn't warranted indicates a density so profound that it could be used for a new generation of fission reactors.
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Jan 21, 2019 03:09
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Good to see that mods can throw around ad homs as they please, veiled or not. It really makes me respect you and the decision you're defending. 
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Jan 21, 2019 03:30
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I usually just lurk, but telling Rime to stay out is wrong.
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Jan 21, 2019 03:43
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Party Plane Jones posted:Rime has been warned and probated so many times for the same poo poo in every iteration of Climate Change thread that to imply this wasn't warranted indicates a density so profound that it could be used for a new generation of fission reactors. Fair. The climate's fixed. What does he have to be so dour about? StabbinHobo posted:I haven't read the book but i've seen the ted talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vjGSiRGKY Watched the talk, browsed the site a bit. They're good to refill your hope stores. Where I continually get tripped up is how to reorient society around suggestions like these. I'm individually working on or at the very least giving money to the top 20 or so of these Drawdown suggestions, as well as others further down their list, but it all seems pretty pointless if the elected branches of my government are hostile to anthropogenic climate change as a concept. I do not even want to hazard a guess at how many people are employed full-time to make sure that this remains the case. The best case scenario in the USA is that there's a sea change (ha) in a couple of years where better climate policy can start to be negotiated up to whatever limit Joe Manchin is comfortable with. This is not brokebrainsedness. I just don't see a way to overcome the practical hurdles of the frankly undemocratic political system that rules the world's second-largest carbon emitter. e: Oh, cool, that QQCS thread was closed already. Good to see unquestionable, rigid decorum enforcement in the mass extinction thread. Insanite fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 03:46
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It’s good to be angry about climate change and Rime has both anger and sources for it, and is doing things in regard to it, Arkane posted tons of dumbass poo poo despite the warning of no climate deniers of previous threads
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Jan 21, 2019 03:54
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Yeah, but the difference was that Arkane was way more restrained as he peddled nonsense to muddy the waters on climate change.
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Jan 21, 2019 04:00
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The difference is seeing Arkane shouted down fills people with smug satisfaction, but shouting Rime down amounts to "please stop being right, I don't like you and it hurts my feelings".
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Jan 21, 2019 04:02
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Actually I think it is wrong to tell people to pollute as much as they want because it doesn't matter. That's not correct.
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Jan 21, 2019 04:06
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On an individual level it's irrelevant and you're incorrect if you think you are, though. He was right, you're still having a fairly hefty impact. It's not a matter of "gently caress you" it's a matter of know you're not actually helping.
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Jan 21, 2019 04:54
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Party Plane Jones posted:Rime has been warned and probated so many times for the same poo poo in every iteration of Climate Change thread that to imply this wasn't warranted indicates a density so profound that it could be used for a new generation of fission reactors. Maybe true. But there’s also been a lot of “But why can’t someone post things that make me feeeel gooood?” posts and honestly those are way more annoying. Probating Rime for his casual racism and personal attacks make sense, but probating him for sources and accurate ‘doomsaying’ doesn’t, it’s up there with the BS CSPAM bans, or are you suggesting that evilweasel is also a lovely poster? I’d take it to QCS but the D&D threads just get locked, cause lol of course they do.
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Jan 21, 2019 06:10
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squirrelzipper posted:Probating Rime for his casual racism and personal attacks make sense, but probating him for sources and accurate ‘doomsaying’ doesn’t
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Jan 21, 2019 06:17
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Gamerofthegame posted:On an individual level it's irrelevant and you're incorrect if you think you are, though. He was right, you're still having a fairly hefty impact. I'd say making sure people understand the gravity of a situation is more helpful than ignoring it or being unaware of it, but that's just me
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Jan 21, 2019 06:23
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Insanite posted:Where I continually get tripped up is how to reorient society around suggestions like these. Activists. Activists everywhere. Saturate the landscape. Start with local government. It's true what people say about the importance of local government. My buddy in county government has impressive anecdotes. He also makes a lot of small talk about code, policy, enforcement, long-term planning, etc. Point is, at least in his county, county-government decides what the county looks like. If you want to fix the world, activists targeting local government will be necessary. Power's distributed across the entire system. Activism must be distributed across the entire system. And activists minding their own backyards is some 'Propaganda of the Deed' poo poo. It can help broader efforts to snowball. It can build a basal infrastructure to support larger enterprises. Lots of angles. Any work anywhere is worthwhile. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 06:31
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quote:Your problem, Rime, is not that you do not understand the issue or that you are not intelligent as such, your problem is that you're a huge rear end in a top hat who drives everyone else out of this thread. Don't come back when your probation is over. User loses posting privileges for 1 month. 
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Jan 21, 2019 08:49
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What drives me away is all the misanthropic losers justifying their empty lives with the "possible" end of human civilization.
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Jan 21, 2019 09:39
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