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Sockser posted:Am I wrong for just kind of.... hating the look of red oak? What kind of cut are we talking about? Quartersawn can be quite nice... I prefer white oak but red has its place. I would probably hit it with a water-based finish too... my wife has a huge dislike for oak but after enough questions to figure out why, what I discovered is that she hates what oil-based finishes on flat/plain sawn oak - they start by yellowing, and darken over time to a honey color.... and flat sawn can make for some really pronounced grain. On a light or clear wood oil finishes have a really pronounced effect - my office has maple desks but made the mistake of using an oil based finish, and they're all yellow now. A water-based finish should stay fairly clear/light. So when you say it reminds you of lovely 90's furniture, I wonder if an oil-based finish is part of the reason.
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Jan 21, 2019 04:33
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It depends a lot on the board/tree. The main difference to me is that red oak smells like butt and white oak smells delicious. I’ve seen fast growing white oak that looks like red oak and slow growing red oak that looks like white oak. With good staining you can get them to look pretty much identical under finish-I’ve mixed the two pretty freely on stuff that was getting a darker brown/English chestnut color finish and never had any problems. I think a lot of the time red oak is the cheapest hard hardwood available and so it gets used for cheap poo poo and winds up very badly finished with red minwax and goopy poly and looks terrible. For your frame, could you just glue an 1/8” strip or whatever you need on the back of your frame E- I finally got this old patternmaker’s lathe cleaned up this weekend, looking forward to playing around turning wood with a cross slide-I’m thinking it should help with sizing dowels particularly. The tail stock actually moves across the ways so you can make tapers easily with the cross slide in theory. I’ll see how it works in practice when I’ve figured out how the tool should be ground.    Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 04:40
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Dang I like that lathe. Please post a lot about it.
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Jan 21, 2019 05:15
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Guitarchitect posted:What kind of cut are we talking about? It's the regular bullshit dimensional oak they carry at Home Depot. I should have just gotten up early and went to the real lumberyard but nehhhhhhhhhhhh Also since posting about how much I hate red oak I realized the stairs in my house are red oak and I don't really mind them too much. Maybe it's just when it's in smaller bits that I really despise it.
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Jan 21, 2019 05:24
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I decided I needed an easy project to knock out, so I spent the last 2-3 hours turning a couple of rough boards (poplar and cherry) and some scrap purpleheart into this: Still needs to be sanded and finished, but once that's done it'll be a small secure shelf for some bottles. My first attempt at those sliding dovetails didn't quite go according to plan -- I had one of them way too tight. I used a mallet to drive the boards together, and after like fifteen minutes I'd nearly gotten them all the way aligned...and the dovetail snapped off.  I was so close! The second time around I wisened up and used some paste wax to grease the joint a bit. It probably also wasn't quite as tight a fit, since I had to route out the snapped-off dovetail.
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Jan 21, 2019 06:03
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I'm in love with this big stack of maple I bought. It's so randomly figured all over the place it's really cool.  Working on a breadboard top for this shoe cabinet right now, 3 strips of maple and going to have cherry breadboard ends. This will mimic the much larger trestle dining room table using the same pattern that I will eventually build. I'll have a buffet cabinet built in the room also that's getting one of the cherry slabs for a top but that's probably not even gonna start till next year. 
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Jan 21, 2019 14:40
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I think a lot of the time red oak is the cheapest hard hardwood available and so it gets used for cheap poo poo and winds up very badly finished with red minwax and goopy poly and looks terrible. Literally my first woodworking project right here.
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Jan 21, 2019 17:09
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I think a lot of the time red oak is the cheapest hard hardwood available and so it gets used for cheap poo poo and winds up very badly finished with red minwax and goopy poly and looks terrible. e.g., my first posts in this thread
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Jan 21, 2019 17:11
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Sockser posted:shelf pin jig I went to buy one and when I looked at it and then the price said screw that and made my own in Fusion 360 and printed it in ABS. 
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Jan 21, 2019 17:24
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I was planning on just making one with a strip of hardboard and a drillpress. Plan was to drill a hole along a straight line and the mount the 2nd hole to be drilled directly under the drill press. Then put an undersized pin / dowel / nail into a sacrificial board below the jig through the 1st hole. Drill the 2nd hole, Jump the 2nd hole onto the pin and line up the straight line under the press, drill, repeat until I get the length / number of holes that I want. Is this bad or something?
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Jan 21, 2019 17:36
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That Works posted:I was planning on just making one with a strip of hardboard and a drillpress.
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Jan 21, 2019 18:29
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:You’re making it a little more complicated than it needs to be but there’s nothing wrong with that. You can just mark a straight line down the center of your jig board and mark for holes every 3” or whatever you want your spacing to be and then drill holes. As long as you always use the same end of the jig as the bottom, it doesn’t matter if they’re exactly evenly spaced since the error will be the same everywhere. I made one of these before, always use the same end is the most important part (obviously) but like... very important or else your holes are just so perfectly off
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Jan 21, 2019 18:34
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:I made one of these before, always use the same end is the most important part (obviously) but like... very important or else your holes are just so perfectly off TooMuchAbstraction posted:I decided I needed an easy project to knock out, so I spent the last 2-3 hours turning a couple of rough boards (poplar and cherry) and some scrap purpleheart into this:
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Jan 21, 2019 19:23
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That Works posted:I was planning on just making one with a strip of hardboard and a drillpress. You will want to reinforce the holes on hardboard or after a few holes you are going to end up with an oblong guide hole.
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Jan 21, 2019 19:55
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Sliding dovetails are such a paiiiiiinnnnnn, and as you’ve discovered, not any stronger than just glueing two boards together. They’re the perfect solution in a few odd cross grain places when things need to float, but mostly they are just trouble. They do look nice though. Yeah, I've used them in the past to make shelf supports that don't have any visible fasteners. Screws go through the dovetail slot of the first piece and into the studs in the wall, then the second piece, which supports the shelf, slides into the slot. I'd originally planned on having a similar setup with this piece, where there'd be periodic small boards holding the various bits together, but then I came up with using that pseudo-butterfly piece of purpleheart instead. Should work fine and easier to assemble. Of course, all this fancy joinery is going to end up being about four inches away from a wall so it's not going to be all that visible. Oh well.
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Jan 21, 2019 23:00
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Sliding dovetails are such a paiiiiiinnnnnn, and as you’ve discovered, not any stronger than just glueing two boards together. They’re the perfect solution in a few odd cross grain places when things need to float, but mostly they are just trouble. They do look nice though. The trick is to make em sliding tapered dovetails so they don't get tight till the last couple inches...not that I've ever made one, but I remember Roy Underhill did it on one episode of the Woodwright's Shop.
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Jan 22, 2019 03:25
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Babby's first custom-made workbench. I'd never had my own garage and this one is a beast, but getting a solid core security door from a Habitat for Humanity ReStore was a godsend. The only problem of course is my garage floor is a bit uneven so once I know where I want to put it I'll need to get leveling feet/shims for the six legs. Still, it feels nice and solid and the shelving underneath is just 1x6 yellow pine boards but I think it looks nice. Unfortunately I'm annoyed to find the overhang on those shelving boards is off by about 1/8" between the two short ends due to some shifting during clamping up but it's barely noticeable. I made the working height 32" which seems to be about right for myself and my girlfriend, too. Any thoughts for mods to make it even better? I already have that 3" overhang on the right/front side to clamp things down to but other than that lower shelf I haven't added anything fancy yet until I have my space sorted. In the near future I do plan to make some precision mounting holds for a vice and maybe some carts for benchtop tools like my drill press and miter saw but I'm trying to avoid pockmarking the surface with holes or mounting anything permanently to it. 
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Jan 22, 2019 04:18
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:If you make the first holes like 6” from the bottom (because nobody wants a tiny shelf anyway) it’s a lot easier to remember which end is up. Otherwise yeah, it’ll make you sad. yeah, they're a great alternative to breadboard ends for tabletops - they'll keep the tabletop nice and flat while still allowing it to flex with humidity changes. me, I bought some slotted 1/4" steel u-channel and routed a couple slots in the underside of my table, fastened it with some screws + washers.
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Jan 22, 2019 05:15
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If you're afraid of loving up the surface, adding a paper roll to the side wouldn't be a bad call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEGLPSzPw-A
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Jan 22, 2019 05:16
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Meow Meow Meow posted:The trick is to make em sliding tapered dovetails so they don't get tight till the last couple inches...not that I've ever made one, but I remember Roy Underhill did it on one episode of the Woodwright's Shop. A great old fashioned way they used to make doors and table tops without glue here. Been meaning to make a table like that some day but I need to build a house first.
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Jan 22, 2019 05:17
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Sockser posted:If you're afraid of loving up the surface, adding a paper roll to the side wouldn't be a bad call That is a great idea, but I am not that worried about the surface getting hosed up. It's tough and the finish is smooth enough; I just don't want to turn my table into swiss cheese with mounting holes.
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Jan 22, 2019 06:23
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Any hints / tips for a breadboarded table? I'm going to build one today for my 3' long shoe rack / entryway bench but it's basically going to be a test run for an 8' trestle table I'm building later. I'll use 3 long pieces of maple capped with cherry breadboards. Do I need to leave any particular areas a bit looser for expansion or just fit it all up and go? Likewise should I just edge glue the long boards together and glue the ends into the breadboard as well? Not really getting my head around how the breadboard end actually helps with wood movement I guess so not really clear what to do and not to do. I just don't want to end up with a structure that imitates the look of the breadboard end but doesn't actually provide the function it offers. e: I found this, I guess covers it well? https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/joinery/breadboard quote:Glue the middle one-third of the tongue. Drive in the dowels, gluing the end ones at the top. I've seen breadboard ends without any obvious dowels though, is that a thing or is that just decorative? This is part of what confuses me. That Works fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 13:33
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Yes edge glue your boards together first-breadboards ends basically just help keep the tabletop flat. That article covers it pretty well. Instead of having a full mortise and tenon the whole width, you can have a short (1/4”-1/2”?) stub tenon the whole width (so you can’t see through the joint) and then just have 3 or 5 or whatever tenons that are the full depth. It just saves a bit of time mortising which I don’t think is anyone’s favorite thing to do. Leaves a little more meat in the end boards too instead of hollowing so much of them out. Basically like this:  You can put the dowels in from the bottom and not drill all the way through to the top if you don’t want to see them. Breadboard ends are a good place to drawbore or slightly offset the holes for dowels so it pulls the joint tight when the dowels are driven in. Make a test piece because its easy to offset the holes the wrong direction and drive the dowels in and find out they actually push the joint apart.
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Jan 22, 2019 14:29
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:Yes edge glue your boards together first-breadboards ends basically just help keep the tabletop flat. Ahh thanks, it was having them not go through the top that was throwing me off. I think I've seen like 5 diff vids and articles and all of them used dowels fully through so I was starting to wonder what I was missing here.
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Jan 22, 2019 14:32
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I tried as hard as I could to break my bandsaw today but failed. Probably very nearly started a fire when it clogged up with shavings though. 1” 2 TPI hook blade that is now dull as poo poo, sawing with the grain 13.25” of red oak. I’m making some funky oval table bases for a coffee table. I thought this was going to be a lot harder than it actually was.    
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Jan 23, 2019 02:15
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 holy crap
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Jan 23, 2019 02:40
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Video please.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:42
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I tried as hard as I could to break my bandsaw today but failed. Probably very nearly started a fire when it clogged up with shavings though. 1” 2 TPI hook blade that is now dull as poo poo, sawing with the grain 13.25” of red oak. I’m making some funky oval table bases for a coffee table. I thought this was going to be a lot harder than it actually was. Aawesome! ..you did that with the bandsaw? how did you hold it or did you connect the oval to something? I feel like I'm missing something here
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Jan 23, 2019 02:53
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Goddamn dude, did you measure how much sawdust you produced?Harry Potter on Ice posted:Aawesome! ..you did that with the bandsaw? how did you hold it or did you connect the oval to something? I feel like I'm missing something here Kaiser Shnitzel has a bandsaw with at least 13.25" of cutting depth. So they just put a big ol' block of wood on the bandsaw's table and then freehanded the curve.  For my part, I finished up that shelf I was working on. As predicted, the joinery is practically invisible.  I'm not sure if I'm gonna get more flack for storing my peanut butter with my alcohol, or for having one of those 1.5L Costco bottles of vodka.   I added the dowel pegs because I wasn't able to get a good glue joint with the dovetails. The pegs themselves of course resist motion in the same direction that the dovetails do so they don't add any strength that way, but the extra glue should make it harder to accidentally punch out one of the dovetail supports, which would substantially weaken the entire thing.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:03
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I tried as hard as I could to break my bandsaw today but failed. Probably very nearly started a fire when it clogged up with shavings though. 1” 2 TPI hook blade that is now dull as poo poo, sawing with the grain 13.25” of red oak. I’m making some funky oval table bases for a coffee table. I thought this was going to be a lot harder than it actually was. That's peedee clever homes. I'm trying to visualize a way you could have roughed it close to what you needed to avoid abusing that bandsaw, but hell, what's a saw for anyway. Are you going to fill the pores? That end looks like it might try to peel out on its own... edit- oh yeah, and gently caress the red oak haters!
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Jan 23, 2019 03:03
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:Aawesome! ..you did that with the bandsaw? how did you hold it or did you connect the oval to something? I feel like I'm missing something here It's a Laguna 24x17 with a 7.5 hp 3 phase motor I got used, and sadly abused, a few years ago when every cabinet shop in the country was closing that I've really been kind of disappointed in. I was used to a giant ancient 38" Crescent with ~1,000,000 HP and a much higher blade speed that you could throw 16/4 stuff through like butter. Today, however, this saw met and exceeded my every expectation and I couldn't be happier with it (except I still hate the fence) and I have a new appreciation for fine Italian pizza engineering. Even over 13" the cut is pretty damned square and straight. Mr. Mambold posted:That's peedee clever homes. I'm trying to visualize a way you could have roughed it close to what you needed to avoid abusing that bandsaw, but hell, what's a saw for anyway. Are you going to fill the pores? That end looks like it might try to peel out on its own...   It's a faux-live edge (tilt the table 30 degrees and follow the growth rings and you too can turn nice flat kiln dried lumber into live edge slabs with no powder post beetles!) table for a decorator and the whole thing is going to get about a gallon of wood bleach dumped on it to turn it bone white, so no grain filling. I may try some of that Osmo oil/wax stuff or just flat lacquer with some liming wax on top. We're going with red oak because despite the name, white oak won't ever get any whiter than grey when you bleach it. I really thought this part was going to be a nightmare so I dreamed up all sorts of other ways to get the waste off-glueing it up in a million pieces to fit the curve or veneering curved bendable plywood (nightmare) or running a ton of grooves with the tablesaw and then chiseling off the waste or paying a shop with a CNC router to rough it out. I'm very glad this worked out and I don't have to mess with any of that. TooMuchAbstraction posted:I added the dowel pegs because I wasn't able to get a good glue joint with the dovetails. The pegs themselves of course resist motion in the same direction that the dovetails do so they don't add any strength that way, but the extra glue should make it harder to accidentally punch out one of the dovetail supports, which would substantially weaken the entire thing.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:28
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I've finished the new case for my vintage amp. Technics SA-5370, solid mahogany with a bit of plywood for spacers (hidden). The grill is from the original crappy 70's plywood and plastic walnut veneer case.    I got a couple spots of tearout when routing the vent hole, and you can see where I cut the sides too short and had to add a bit to make up the difference I've got progress shots, if anyone is interested.
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Jan 23, 2019 05:28
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Neat! Would love to see some progress photos
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Jan 23, 2019 07:26
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What is it about woodworkers that make us build something beautiful, then go out of our way to point out to everyone the places we messed it up a little? I built a nice drawer insert for our kitchen with three wonderful dovetails, but I nearly tripped over myself pulling it out of the drawer to show my dad the one loose one.
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Jan 23, 2019 15:16
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Huxley posted:What is it about woodworkers that make us build something beautiful, then go out of our way to point out to everyone the places we messed it up a little? I built a nice drawer insert for our kitchen with three wonderful dovetails, but I nearly tripped over myself pulling it out of the drawer to show my dad the one loose one. It's because we aspire to perfection, but every little mistake will nag us at the back of our mind forever, so we're compelled to share that mistake with everyone. Because as long as we're the one sharing the mistake, it can't be pointed out to us like we didn't already know we did that bonehead thing that ruins an otherwise beautiful piece.
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Jan 23, 2019 15:45
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n0tqu1tesane posted:It's because we aspire to perfection, but every little mistake will nag us at the back of our mind forever, so we're compelled to share that mistake with everyone. Because as long as we're the one sharing the mistake, it can't be pointed out to us like we didn't already know we did that bonehead thing that ruins an otherwise beautiful piece. Said better than I could have
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Jan 23, 2019 15:56
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This is Julia Child and about food, but this just as applicable to woodworking or really anything else in life. I think n0tqu1tesane is right too though-if we admit our mistakes nobody can call us on them. Woodworker’s are picky, technical, opinionated people, and we often seem to care more about the tightness of a joint than the overall effect or design of a piece of work. If you look at antiques, they didn’t give a drat about how tight or perfect or pretty their dovetails were-as long as they held the drawer together (and they always do) they were doing their job. Julia Child posted:“I don’t believe in twisting yourself into knots of excuses and explanations over the food you make. When one’s hostess starts in with self-deprecations such as “Oh, I don’t know how to cook…,” or “Poor little me…,” or “This may taste awful…,” it is so dreadful to have to reassure her that everything is delicious and fine, whether it is or not. Besides, such admissions only draw attention to one’s shortcomings (or self-perceived shortcomings), and make the other person think, “Yes, you’re right, this really is an awful meal!” ...Usually one’s cooking is better than one thinks it is Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 15:58
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My daughter has an illustrated book about Julia Child, and there's an entire page of her fussing at the tv viewer/book reader, "Never apologize for your cooking, it is what it is and it's probably fine." On the same page she drops a fish on the floor and just picks it up and keeps going because, "You're probably alone on the kitchen anyway, who is there to even be mad at you?" She seemed like a cool lady.
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Jan 23, 2019 16:01
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They are not called mistakes they are "maker marks"  I think a lot of it is that the mistakes are blindingly obvious to ourselves and therefor assume everyone else sees them as well. That and a desire to share the struggles endured on the project. A wood turner once said that another turner will look for the pop of a lid when you show them a piece but an ordinary person could care less and would rather have an easy to lift lid over a perfectly mated one.
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Jan 23, 2019 16:01
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It's a trait shared among all creative endeavors
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