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The Shortest Path posted:Dragon was given the diary along with the rest of Victoria's cape notes (back when they exchanged info and Dragon tipped Victoria off to the Chris issues) because that's where it was saved, it raised a bunch of red flags because several of the Breakthrough members are minors and the diary painted Victoria as borderline abusing them, so Dragon gives that information to Jessica (and possibly others, given the gravity of the situation, we just don't have any knowledge of that from Victoria's perspective) because she's responsible for the mental wellbeing of those minors and probably also in a legal capacity. Sure, but here are the issues I have with that: First and foremost, the search was blatantly illegal- dragon is not a law enforcement agent, if she had been she still didn't have PC, even if she did have PC it would be a nightmare to establish the initial chain of evidence, and trivial to clear Victoria- as others have noted, there are tons of easy avenues available through thinkers or various BS tech. Second, even if the search was completely above-board, writing a diary is not a crime. Victoria could've explicitly written Creepy Fetish/Murder Fantasies volumes 1-32 systematically fantasizing about everyone in the story, and it still wouldn't be a crime. Gross and weird, for sure, but not against the law. Third, Victoria is not an authority figure: she isn't a cop, a teacher, or a social worker, or anyone with legal authority or guardianship over any of her team. She's a legal adult working together with a team of legal adults to run a private for-profit venture. (I'm fairly sure that the only minor on breakthrough is Kenzie, who isn't a member of breakthrough anymore? Victoria and Sveta are in their 20s, rain's 19, I think the google translate twins are in their early 20s, and chris is chris.) Fourth, Jessica isn't breakthrough's therapist anymore: she ran the therapy group, which concluded before she disappeared. She has no duty of care to them, so her concern, even if clinically motivated, is as a private citizen and friend. Fifth, let's say everyone on breakthrough were a minor, and they were in ongoing therapy with Jessica (meaning she carried both a duty of care and mandate to report abuse, any crimes they told her about, or if she believed one of them was about to commit a crime). The diary still isn't a crime. Jessica could insist they not attend the same therapy group, and heavily recommend that they not see each other outside of therapy, but that's where her powers end. Even if we change the situation to remove all of the procedural and institutional problems, say everyone's a minor, make Jessica everyone's therapist, and Victoria voluntarily hands her the diary, and goes "Yup, I wrote this, it has tons of creepy stuff in it". There is absolutely nothing that would happen- Jessica could and probably should report her concerns to whoever is in charge of the superhero mental health stuff, and they should and probably would ask Victoria to change therapists and not have contact with breakthrough on hospital/clinic property. But nobody would get in trouble, and nothing would change beyond Jessica and/or breakthrough going "Man, Victoria's kind of a creep." Going back to the events as they happened, none of that is true- Jessica is not their therapist, Dragon isn't a cop, and the fabricated sleaze diary that was explicitly cooked to make Victoria look bad isn't actionable. Unless they're both acting extrajudicially on behalf of the wardens like seemingly everyone else in the story, it reads to me like a bunch of civilians breaking multiple laws and acting in an incredibly invasive and inappropriate fashion for no reason. It certainly works to generate drama for the story, but the entire chain of events feels contrived and nonsensical to me. Like, if a diary with entries like we were shown was enough to throw dragon and Jessica in a paranoid fit, the contents of Kenzie's computers must BSOD dragon every time she looks at them. Omi no Kami fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 05:50
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wow! didn't know you were a law expert, in this fictional dimension.
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Apr 14, 2019 17:35
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So I haven't read anything on Worm since it ended. Does worm 2.0 recap at all or should I reread it all for a refresher? I'm not looking forward to the slaughterhouse nine arc again.
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Apr 14, 2019 17:44
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^^^ All you really need to remember is that the world ended, plus the basics on who some characters are. And what the entities are, I guess, though I think Ward basically goes over this. Re: Omi's post, there aren't really any laws to break in this setting, so that's kind of irrelevant. And as far as I can tell Victoria isn't going to be arrested or punished based off the diary's contents by themselves; Jessica just isn't willing to trust her with the team because of it (and her/Dragon are looking to see if there's anything worse going on that would be criminal). So I don't think there's anything particular strange about Jessica and Dragon's actions here aside from the fact that 1. as mentioned, I'm pretty sure it should be possible to vet Victoria given the Thinker powers in this setting and 2. I feel like both Jessica and Dragon are being assholes to Victoria for not believing her in a setting where people have powers and planting this sort of evidence isn't totally impossible (with Jessica being far worse in this regard, since she has a long history with Victoria; I feel like there's no way for that relationship to be salvaged in the long term). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 18:21
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Ytlaya posted:^^^ All you really need to remember is that the world ended, plus the basics on who some characters are. And what the entities are, I guess, though I think Ward basically goes over this. I can see what you're getting at, and I'm happy to agree to disagree but at least for me, the fact that Jessica and Dragon are private citizens and Victoria's diary is creepy but not criminal are what make this so strange. This is very explicitly private individuals invading another person's privacy for no reason, finding something that worries them personally but not criminally, and slowly escalating their own private investigation just in case. I understand that "It's a parahuman and a bunch of vulnerable kids, so it looks bad," but at the end of the day this reads to me like one private citizen inappropriately rooting around into another's life. If it isn't something that the authorities have a stake in, it shouldn't be anyone else's business. And the thing is, Jessica very explicitly has no business "trusting Victoria with the team": the team is a private corporation, run and staffed by legal adults. Jessica's only stake is that she cares about them; that's great, but it's not a justification for anything she's done.
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Apr 14, 2019 19:11
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Omi no Kami posted:
Oh, it is absolutely, at the very least, pretty morally dubious (and I'd probably say it's outright morally wrong, though one could argue that Dragon, being an AI, and just instantly read the entire diary in the same way a human could randomly glance an image). It's just not really illegal. I also don't think Jessica can stop Victoria from working with the team, though as an employee of the Wardens (I think?) she likely has the ability to basically render the team non-functional through removing Warden approval if Victoria participates.
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Apr 15, 2019 01:33
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Ytlaya posted:Oh, it is absolutely, at the very least, pretty morally dubious (and I'd probably say it's outright morally wrong, though one could argue that Dragon, being an AI, and just instantly read the entire diary in the same way a human could randomly glance an image). It's just not really illegal. I also don't think Jessica can stop Victoria from working with the team, though as an employee of the Wardens (I think?) she likely has the ability to basically render the team non-functional through removing Warden approval if Victoria participates. Yeah, but even if she were to get the Wardens on her side, the fact that there isn't rule of law, and that the city is apparently (I think?) being secretly held together by Not-Cauldron, who are explicitly bankrolling Victoria's team, makes the whole chain of command really muddy. I think the idea of a miscommunication causing severe friction between Yamada and Victoria/Breakthrough is an easy and effective route for drama, and I'm interested to see where this is going, but the actual mechanics of the whole thing still seem weird and counterproductive to me. (To be fair, this whole 'there's no law and nobody is in charge except sometimes when someone is' thing has been a recurring problem for the story; I get that it isn't a narrative priority, and I doubt WB would have fun writing chapter after chapter of legal and logistical hashing-out, but running an urban civilization without functional bureaucracy is really hard, there have been numerous premodern empires that had the resources, manpower, food and tech base to thrive, but collapsed purely because they grew too large and couldn't effectively govern.)
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Apr 15, 2019 01:47
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quote:“Ah,” the orc breathed out, looking at her with shining eyes. “I understand now, ma’am. You’ve played the Dominion like a fiddle.” hahaha edit: Also looking forward to Rumena's rematch with the Saint. I hope Jindrich also gets some action. That guy owns and I was disappointed we never got to see him have a serious fight during the Everdark arc. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Apr 15, 2019 |
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Apr 15, 2019 07:23
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The Pilgrim hasn't realised yet that he's not playing the role of hero anymore, has he? Sitting on a stone, legs folded, the Grey Pilgrim watched the battle and waited. For now, all was unfolding as he had foreseen. So why, Tariq wondered, were the Ophanim murmuring so worriedly in his ear?
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Apr 15, 2019 11:45
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Ytlaya posted:hahaha Callowan Flashman/Ciaphas Cain is the best.
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Apr 15, 2019 19:45
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New MoL https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/98/Mother-of-Learning wasnt expecting the detective guy to come back
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Apr 17, 2019 03:20
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Xun posted:wasnt expecting the detective guy to come back I really like that dude... early on before I knew where the story was going, I was half-expecting Zorian to spend longer picking up sleazy magic detective skills and playing buddy cops.
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Apr 17, 2019 04:54
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Yeah I wanted that guy to hang out longer. I was expecting this series to end by chapter 100 but I think at this point this isn't likely; I wonder how much longer it's going for.
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Apr 17, 2019 04:59
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I think that around chapter 92-93 the author said that he thought it was 10-15 chapters away from ending? I really don't see that happening though, not unless it just goes "And then Zorian finished his plotting and nothing happened for 3 weeks, please enjoy several chapters of fighting followed by a big finish." That would be kinda disappointing; at least for me, the story is at its best when it's doing slow sleuthy/learny stuff and slice of life nonsense.
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Apr 17, 2019 05:21
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rumena owns, grey pilgrim is very stupid for someone who's supposed to be very wise
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Apr 17, 2019 07:23
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Omi no Kami posted:I think that around chapter 92-93 the author said that he thought it was 10-15 chapters away from ending? I really don't see that happening though, not unless it just goes "And then Zorian finished his plotting and nothing happened for 3 weeks, please enjoy several chapters of fighting followed by a big finish." That would be kinda disappointing; at least for me, the story is at its best when it's doing slow sleuthy/learny stuff and slice of life nonsense. There would probably be epilogue stuff (or at least I hope so) where Zorian goes and thanks the people who helped him during the time-loop. violent sex idiot posted:rumena owns, grey pilgrim is very stupid for someone who's supposed to be very wise To be fair, before the Everdark adventure Cat would absolutely fight to the bitter end.
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Apr 17, 2019 13:50
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violent sex idiot posted:rumena owns, grey pilgrim is very stupid for someone who's supposed to be very wise Dude's used to being the hero. But he is not. Cat is the hero.
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Apr 17, 2019 15:22
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violent sex idiot posted:rumena owns, grey pilgrim is very stupid for someone who's supposed to be very wise It's kind of like a reverse of the situation that caused Black to be defeated. Black was too used to dealing with Callowan-style heroes and wasn't prepared for Pilgrim. But Pilgrim doesn't know how to deal with a strange pseudo-villain like Catherine, since he's spent so many years fighting other villains.
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Apr 17, 2019 17:02
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The new MoL is good, my favorite kind of chapter. I kind of like the later slice of life stuff more than the early ones.
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Apr 18, 2019 07:06
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Larry Parrish posted:The new MoL is good, my favorite kind of chapter. I kind of like the later slice of life stuff more than the early ones. The scene with Novelty was good. The author's writing speed has dropped dramatically the last few months. I wonder if they're having a hard time figuring out how to wrap things up.
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Apr 18, 2019 22:50
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Wandering Inn 6.09 early chapter, Erin finally gets a taste of her own medicine.
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Apr 20, 2019 17:54
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Kalas posted:Wandering Inn 6.09 early chapter, Erin finally gets a taste of her own medicine. Is the implication of the final scene that Erin’s new friends also have [Wondrous Fare]? Or something similar? The use of the word wondrous seemed very deliberate, but Erin got that skill from serving non traditional magic food to the Fairies and I thought the implication is that it’s very rare/unique. Interested to see where that storyline is going.
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Apr 20, 2019 20:12
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loving lol that Wandering Inn literally has a muscle wizard in it.
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Apr 20, 2019 20:18
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A big flaming stink posted:loving lol that Wandering Inn literally has a muscle wizard in it. Small Medium, the RR series by the same author and in the same world as Threadbear has a Muscle Wizzard and he is the best.
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Apr 21, 2019 06:42
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Those no-Name mooks did NOT just (PracGuide)kill Jindrich (or at least I'm pretty sure that was Jindrich, since they mentioned him being big). There is no way in hell, even if they were assisted by some lanterns.
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Apr 21, 2019 07:38
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A big flaming stink posted:loving lol that Wandering Inn literally has a muscle wizard in it. 
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Apr 21, 2019 09:42
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navyjack posted:Small Medium, the RR series by the same author and in the same world as Threadbear has a Muscle Wizzard and he is the best. I love that guy so much lol
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Apr 21, 2019 17:03
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Ytlaya posted:Those no-Name mooks did NOT just (PracGuide)kill Jindrich (or at least I'm pretty sure that was Jindrich, since they mentioned him being big). There is no way in hell, even if they were assisted by some lanterns. The look shared overshadowed even the bleeding pain of his shoulder, for a moment, but it turned to horror when with a wet squelch the drow’s body began to heal and spat out the sword. It began to rise, as did they, but it paused as if struck
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Apr 21, 2019 17:38
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NinjaDebugger posted:The look shared overshadowed even the bleeding pain of his shoulder, for a moment, but it turned to horror when with a wet squelch the drow’s body began to heal and spat out the sword. It began to rise, as did they, but it paused as if struck Ah, somehow I completely missed that. Thank goodness! (though I guess Jindrich was stuck for a while under the influence of the Pilgrim's ability, so who knows what happened during that interval)
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Apr 21, 2019 20:30
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A big flaming stink posted:loving lol that Wandering Inn literally has a muscle wizard in it. Enkidel??
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Apr 22, 2019 01:52
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Enkidel?? 
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Apr 22, 2019 07:24
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its funny that the wandering inn muscle wizard is literally just a guy talking about exercise like its magic, but the small medium version is a dude who's really a professional wrestler who just dresses like one and thinks wizards are cool. i like pirateaba but the idea that people would think someone insisting people do physical exercise is crazy just because magic exists is pretty funny
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Apr 22, 2019 07:53
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Larry Parrish posted:I like pirateaba but the idea that people would think someone insisting people do physical exercise is crazy just because magic exists is pretty funny I think this comes more from the way the skill system in the world works. In their mind, why bother to exercise when your class will just give you lesser strength if that's something you need. I actually like how the skill system is what holds their entire world back, people don't have to "work" for anything in the same way, they just hope the skill will be handed to them if they keep leveling up.
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Apr 22, 2019 07:59
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A big underlying theme of TWI has been most of the world's denizens being extremely uncreative and focused on their classes and skills to an extreme degree, with those who understand how to work around that being in extremely powerful positions or nobility or whatever, or otherwise rising to prominence extremely quickly.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:07
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It's not the first time I've seen fantasy people mystified by exercise either. The secondary characters have no idea why the main character of Bookworm does calisthenics in the morning, and in this book series I recently read, Destiny's Crucible, the main character has a running and weight training routine all worked out and he tries to explain it to the townsfolk but they just think it's another of those wacky ideas from the local eccentric. Probably a subtrope of the genre.
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Apr 22, 2019 18:57
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I think that it is relic of old views about historic times. In the past few decades the historians have been more and more showing the actual reality of ancient and medieval times and the plethora of life skills, technologies and social developments. But it takes time to filter through the population and I feel especially to non-European peoples it would take a lot to move them from a Monty Python sketch to more modern portrayals of European past. Who have been driving force being webnovels and web serials for most. So, until we get that one web novel focusing on medieval bath houses, the peasants will remain unwashed.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:24
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The Shortest Path posted:A big underlying theme of TWI has been most of the world's denizens being extremely uncreative and focused on their classes and skills to an extreme degree, with those who understand how to work around that being in extremely powerful positions or nobility or whatever, or otherwise rising to prominence extremely quickly.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:27
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Pisces did mention that he learned how to lipread without using a Skill and its portrayed as a pretty out there idea for him. there's also how nothing in the world manages to outlast the lifetime of its creator because they almost universally depend on their Skills without actually learning how to create it most of the time. Or more precisely, they never bother to teach the underlying theory because teaching a little bit is likely to convey Skills upon leveling. Laken for example vaguely explained how to construct a trebuchet and one of his engineers became an Engineer almost immediately and then intuitively understood the extremely complex physics behind the construction. what was insane in that arc was that the goblins managed to reverse engineer how to construct their own trebuchet simply by watching the trebuchet attacking them from a distance in a matter of hours. this had nothing to do with a Skill and would seem to imply that goblins are insanely loving intelligent, or at least their language and social order are insanely loving better at communicating ideas and facilitating collaboration. like, jesus. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 22, 2019 |
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Apr 22, 2019 19:33
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When I was reading TWI, I remember finding the fact that everyone with a crafting skill had the ability to create objects of identical quality and composition to be so weird- it seems like that would explicitly disincentivize innovation, since all you would be doing is pouring resources into a new thing that all of your competitors get for free when it's done.
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Apr 22, 2019 19:43
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A big flaming stink posted:Goblin language and social order are insanely loving better at communicating ideas and facilitating collaboration. This is the actual text.
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Apr 22, 2019 20:30
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