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Drone Jett posted:https://www.tor.com/2019/04/15/five-years-on-theres-still-nothing-like-the-slow-regard-of-silent-things/ The wheedling "[A quick note: I want to be clear that the five-year anniversary is used in the essay as a milestone to appreciate the work’s lasting impact. It’s not intended as a complaint about the author’s release schedule, in any way, and hope that we can discuss the novella on its own terms, keeping in mind the spirit in which this essay was written.] How sensitive is Rothfuss that a glowing, uncritical review has to have a caveat at the end to make sure Rothfuss isn't offended?
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Apr 19, 2019 15:37
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Only in the fantasy genre is a 147-page book a "novella".
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Apr 19, 2019 15:47
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What lasting impact? This poo poo sucks
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Apr 19, 2019 16:01
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Only in the fantasy genre is a 147-page book a "novella". Apparently, both the Hugo and Nebula define it as 17500 - 40000 words so it fits pretty comfortably into that definition. Wchi is not out of line for some well-known (non-genre) novellas.
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Apr 19, 2019 16:04
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quote:It’s not hard to put a mundane-world term to this behavior: Auri is living with severe obsessive-compulsive disorder. But that’s as limiting as labeling Hamlet “indecisive” and thinking you’re done with his story. One of The Kingkiller Chronicle’s most prominent themes is the importance of names and naming, and “OCD” is not a name that tells the whole story of Auri. Her personality, like that of any person with atypical mental health, is far too changeable to be summed up in a diagnosis: From page to page, she can be romantic, petulant, enlightened, determined, cautious, or so broken that she at one point loses an entire day to crying. Yup, those are the emotions: broken, horny, petty, woke, confident, careful and broken (alt) quote:Yet neither is she a cipher. What makes Auri one of the most indelible narrators in fantasy is that her whole spectrum of behavior comes directly from her off-kilter worldview. She’s wrestling constantly with her brokenness, finding joy in it rather than passively accepting it. On the one hand, not very much “happens” in this story, yet with just a tilt of the gaze, it’s a tale told at the breakneck pace of a young girl’s thoughts. I can hardly think of its likeness anywhere else in fantasy. Imagine... A characters actions being shaped by their worldview. Truly incredible. Also iirc she's like 20, very much not 'a young girl', though I can't blame the reviewer there. Goddammit I read more of the dumb review, and now to be fair I haven't read the book and the reviewer (technically) has, but quote:Toward the end of the book, Auri anticipates a reaction to the story she’s telling: “[S]he knew she wasn’t right. She knew her everything was canted wrong. She knew her head was all unkilter. She knew she wasn’t true inside.” I don't think they understood the bolded, because that's a pretty harsh slam on their target demographic. Gitro fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 18:13
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quote:Yet neither is she a cipher. What makes Auri one of the most indelible narrators in fantasy is that her whole spectrum of behavior comes directly from her off-kilter worldview. She’s wrestling constantly with her brokenness, finding joy in it rather than passively accepting it. On the one hand, not very much “happens” in this story, yet with just a tilt of the gaze, it’s a tale told at the breakneck pace of a young girl’s thoughts. I can hardly think of its likeness anywhere else in fantasy. that's not what "likeness" means you pompous dip Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 19, 2019 |
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Apr 19, 2019 18:43
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What I'm struggling with, and I think that this is a supportive community so I'm going to be honest here, is the idea that you could write those words to praise a thing you like and not immediately eat your own hands in shame
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Apr 19, 2019 18:58
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Gitro posted:What I'm struggling with, and I think that this is a supportive community so I'm going to be honest here, is the idea that you could write those words to praise a thing you like and not immediately eat your own hands in shame Have you considered the person who wrote it had already eaten their hands in shame from some other piece of poo poo they'd written before and produced the review here by using text-to-speech? It's definitely possible
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Apr 19, 2019 19:58
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Have you considered the person who wrote it had already eaten their hands in shame from some other piece of poo poo they'd written before and produced the review here by using text-to-speech? It's definitely possible Obviously they forgot to eat their tongue in shame as well.
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Apr 19, 2019 20:26
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Gitro posted:What I'm struggling with, and I think that this is a supportive community so I'm going to be honest here, is the idea that you could write those words to praise a thing you like and not immediately eat your own hands in shame If I wrote that, I would probably read it for editing and think, "hold on, i think this poo poo might actually sucks"
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Apr 20, 2019 00:40
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Is there even anything magical or fantastical in that book? I can't imagine the reaction if Auri were a mad grad student living on the sewers under a bio lab. Note that I didn't say former student; of course she's still enrolled and owes years of tuition because her advisor forgot about her.
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Apr 20, 2019 01:01
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Reminder that Kvothe still hasn't done poo poo about his arch-nemesis Jackoff or whatever, a character that would be a very minor antagonist in a more skilled author's hands, but for some reason is still an issue after 2 books
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Apr 20, 2019 04:24
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"This non-neurotypical protagonist is good because she just comes right out and tells you her neurological state makes her subhuman"
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Apr 20, 2019 04:50
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ElGroucho posted:Reminder that Kvothe still hasn't done poo poo about his arch-nemesis Jackoff or whatever, a character that would be a very minor antagonist in a more skilled author's hands, but for some reason is still an issue after 2 books He's like royalty or whatever I can only imagine he's tied in with being the kingkiller, and the cobblestones you apparently can't replace.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:11
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Make that guy read "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time".
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Apr 20, 2019 08:53
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Atlas Hugged posted:Make that guy read "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time". "What's up with this guy, he likes math and doesn't even have tits or wear thin, wispy clothing. Who cares?"
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Apr 20, 2019 12:15
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ElGroucho posted:"What's up with this guy, he likes math and doesn't even have tits or wear thin, wispy clothing. Who cares?" "But his dietary habits are certainly commendable."
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Apr 20, 2019 16:47
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Never read that 'novella' but Rothfart does seem like the sort of dude that'd fetishize mental illness.
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Apr 20, 2019 16:55
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Brandon Sanderson almost always includes a side character that has developmental problems, mental illness, or special needs in his stories and shows the different ways it affects the family in charge of caring for the person. But he actually has a child with a condition and is trying to simultaneously raise awareness and include positive if realistic portrayals of people with needs.
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Apr 20, 2019 17:13
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Atlas Hugged posted:Brandon Sanderson almost always includes a side character that has developmental problems, mental illness, or special needs in his stories and shows the different ways it affects the family in charge of caring for the person. That’s because Sanderson, despite being a dogshit writer, is probably actually a pretty good dude. Rothfuss seems like a jackass who gets high on his own farts.
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Apr 20, 2019 17:40
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ElGroucho posted:Reminder that Kvothe still hasn't done poo poo about his arch-nemesis Jackoff or whatever, a character that would be a very minor antagonist in a more skilled author's hands, but for some reason is still an issue after 2 books Kvothe being a self-entitled rear end in a top hat is the entire reason for the animosity between the two of them too.
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Apr 20, 2019 18:00
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Doctor Faustine posted:That’s because Sanderson, despite being a dogshit writer, is probably actually a pretty good dude. Sanderson has no instincts for how to be a good dude so everything he says or does seems so forced and formulaic. Reading his depictions of characters with DID or non-binary leanings is like watching Terry Goodkind try to grapple with LGBT issues. It's just so ham-fisted, sophomoric, and difficult to struggle through. Like if Sanderson wrote Mad Mex: Fury Road, at some point Max would narrate to the audience"I didn't realize it at first, but Furiosa is just as capable as someone with two arms." It's loving painful, even if he means well. Edit: Which is at least different from Rothfuss, who would say, "look at this strong female character," then have Max continue to save her from trouble over and over again.
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Apr 20, 2019 19:22
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Benson Cunningham posted:Sanderson has no instincts for how to be a good dude so everything he says or does seems so forced and formulaic. Reading his depictions of characters with DID or non-binary leanings is like watching Terry Goodkind try to grapple with LGBT issues. It's just so ham-fisted, sophomoric, and difficult to struggle through. Also Furiosa would try to gently caress Max for access to his map.
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Apr 20, 2019 20:38
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Karnegal posted:Also Furiosa would try to gently caress Max for access to his map. tbh this kind of thing is where the comic book influence shines through, because that would absolutely be a DC/Marvel subplot. probably the real problem with rothfuss is that he doesn’t consume anything outside of nerd culture, which is just endless copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of something else. the only way to get better as a writer is 1) writing and 2) reading other varied authors that are better than you so you can learn by example. this also grounds you in classic character archetypes, how complex motives work, how simple or dense plots can get, and when and how to execute twists. but rothfuss just reads 90s spider man comics and DnD sourcebooks, and it shows.
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Apr 21, 2019 00:43
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HIJK posted:but rothfuss just reads 90s spider man comics  2007, whatever. Still one of the most Rothfussian things I've ever read.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:14
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There's not a single page of Slow Regard where something is happening. Imagine being a self-aware author knowing that the last thing you gave to fans half a decade ago was this story about a minor character picking up objects, putting them down, walking from one place to another and then back again, all delivered with absurd sincerity like it's a brilliant character study, the modern equivalent of Camus' The Stranger. MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 02:33
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Sham bam bamina! posted:
Now that is embarrassing. Maybe Rothfuss can give up this novel writing thing and get a job at DC. He would at least have an editor to institute deadlines on him then and I doubt he's significantly worse than any other comic book writer.
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Apr 21, 2019 02:46
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HIJK posted:Now that is embarrassing. Maybe Rothfuss can give up this novel writing thing and get a job at DC. He would at least have an editor to institute deadlines on him then So he'd be fired immediately, then? Seems like a good plan to me!
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Apr 22, 2019 09:17
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It's pretty cool how you can tell when an author grew up reading books or reading "The Adventures of Pringles, the Time Traveling Ape Who Quips" by Marvel Comics
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Apr 22, 2019 12:32
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Evil Fluffy posted:Kvothe being a self-entitled rear end in a top hat is the entire reason for the animosity between the two of them too. I remember how Rothfuss had to add that Ambrose is a serial killer/hires serial killers in order to actually make him villainous because Kvothe always came off as the rear end in a top hat in interaction with Ambrose.
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Apr 23, 2019 04:50
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I mean they're both dicks, right? It's just Kvothe has a victim complex and Ambrose is an old money rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 23, 2019 16:32
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Benson Cunningham posted:I mean they're both dicks, right? It's just Kvothe has a victim complex and Ambrose is an old money rear end in a top hat. Yeah, a lot of people here trying to keep Ambrose from being #metoo’d for some reason.
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Apr 23, 2019 17:04
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Drone Jett posted:Yeah, a lot of people here trying to keep Ambrose from being #metoo’d for some reason. I dunno if I've seen anyone doing that. Hard to when it's basically his entire character. I was just pointing out that Rothfuss had to up him to being a serial killer to avoid comparing favorably to Kvothe. Kchama fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Apr 23, 2019 |
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Apr 23, 2019 19:00
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Drone Jett posted:Yeah, a lot of people here trying to keep Ambrose from being #metoo’d for some reason. He's like sexually harrassing Feluria? Fella? I can't remember, the one he saves later from the fire. When they first run into each other (Kvoth and Ambrose). Ambrose is pretty clearly a bad guy. This thread gets a little ridiculous with the need to ridicule each and every thing that Rothfuss wrote.
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Apr 23, 2019 20:06
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He's implied to have been a sexpest to the moneylender too, but we don't know anything specific about it. This detail is introduced solely as an excuse to get her to help Kvothe again even though Kvothe flipped out and tried to kill her for no reason a chapter beforehand.
Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Oct 21, 2022 |
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Apr 23, 2019 20:47
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all of this poo poo works as a comic book, but as literature, it is not good
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Apr 23, 2019 20:52
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pseudanonymous posted:He's like sexually harrassing Feluria? Fella? I can't remember, the one he saves later from the fire. When they first run into each other (Kvoth and Ambrose). Ambrose is pretty clearly a bad guy. This thread gets a little ridiculous with the need to ridicule each and every thing that Rothfuss wrote. He's saying people in this thread are defending Ambrose by pretending he isn't a sexmonster, dude. I'm not sure what you though he was saying, but he was not saying Ambrose was a good guy. He's saying other people did. And really, that's a good thing to ridicule, when your evil villian rival has to be a rapist and serial killer/serial killer hire-r in order to make the protagonist look heroic. Kchama fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 24, 2019 |
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Apr 24, 2019 01:53
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Am I missing something? When did he serial killer things?
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Apr 24, 2019 03:35
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Solice Kirsk posted:Am I missing something? When did he serial killer things? It's one of the markers of bad writing (and it's particularly abundant in sci-fi/fantasy). When you have a villain, you give them all the negative traits. They can't be nuanced because everything is black or white. Having a nemesis who is a rich rear end in a top hat, that's not enough he has to be rape or murder evil. There's no way write him as a guy who is maybe a bit of a snob, but mainly doesn't like Kvothe because Kvothe is an unlikeable rear end in a top hat with the giantest ego ever.
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Apr 24, 2019 08:56
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i think "at least one serial killer per novel" should be constitutional law
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