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Solkanar512 posted:What in the flying gently caress is so difficult about feeding children? Why are you folks so loving obsessed with your toys, such that any mention of any non-technological solution is taken as a direct attack on your drat toys? If we spend money to feed a child for a year, that's money that's not going to be spent on a Chromebook or ipad.
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May 22, 2019 17:46
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luxury handset posted:it's the same old "research backed personalized learning platform" aka "sit down and take these multiple choice quizzes at your own pace after studying the packaged material" nonsense that has been around for decades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfYolxKB_5k [Clip from the film Teachers; one of the teachers "teaches" by doing nothing but having students pick up ditto sheets from stacks on his desk; he has a heart attack and none of the students notice for several classes]
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May 22, 2019 18:04
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Hobo posted:I have an MSc in education, with a specialisation in learning and technology. This is a good post. Reminder: you can tell the forums to "ignore user" and then you can only see that user's posts if you click through. This may be helpful if you feel like one or more users consistently fail to say anything interesting or relevant~~~
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May 22, 2019 18:04
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Hello, fellow residents of SomethingTownful. As you know, our school has a 40% graduation rate and 70% of students are on reduced-cost meal programs. We're near the bottom of the state rankings for standardized test scores. Our average teacher retention time is 1.4 years and we have 37 students for each instructor. Fear not, though! The tech gods are here to save you. For the low price of only $70,000 for the entire school, we can introduce new Chromebooks to the classrooms with digital learning systems that will make miracles happen, like the children not going hungry and their parents not working multiple jobs each late into the night! All you need to do is agree to a 0.05% increase in property taxes spread over the next 10 years for this bond initiative to pass and... quote:What in the flying gently caress is so difficult about feeding children? Why are you folks so loving obsessed with your toys, such that any mention of any non-technological solution is taken as a direct attack on your drat toys? To admit that we don't even make sure our children are fed would be to admit we're all horrible people. It's easier on the ego to pretend none of that matters and point to the shiny objects. 
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May 22, 2019 18:37
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Sundae posted:Hello, fellow residents of SomethingTownful. As you know, our school has a 40% graduation rate and 70% of students are on reduced-cost meal programs. We're near the bottom of the state rankings for standardized test scores. Our average teacher retention time is 1.4 years and we have 37 students for each instructor. Fear not, though! The tech gods are here to save you. For the low price of only $70,000 for the entire school, we can introduce new Chromebooks to the classrooms with digital learning systems that will make miracles happen, like the children not going hungry and their parents not working multiple jobs each late into the night! Sorry the state capped property tax rates for school boards. If you need more money you'll have to just get richer citizens.
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May 22, 2019 18:48
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VideoGameVet posted:The one thing all the educational reforms (no child left behind, common core etc.) have in common is abject failures. Feeding kids breakfast and lunch has been proven to work. So does (did?) HeadStart IIRC. Trabisnikof posted:Sorry the state capped property tax rates for school boards. If you need more money you'll have to just get richer citizens. Excuse me! Our Poor Elderly can't afford it if we raise taxes when houses rise in value, so we can't do that! drat Howard Jarvis forever.
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May 22, 2019 19:35
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Nevvy Z posted:This whole argument is rooted in the neps assertion that rich schools without laptops have worse education outcomes and I'd really like to see him show what he's basing that on. You are asking serious question? The private school for rich kids only quite obvious lacks poor children who would not be fed. Even when there are systems to give scholarship to rich kid private school, as my country has been pushing for the past 50 years, the poor kids often get booted out of school for a variety of reasons to keep the private school looking "good". Public schools largely do not get to boot out such children, who are likely to have poor outcome. Even with this happening, private schools for rich kids tend to perform only as good than public schools do in student mastery of the topics, quite often it is worse. And often a relative rich kid in a public school performs better than equivalent kid in the fancy private school. Since the supposed reason to use the private school is better education for the student, these failures to improve are quite of damning. And let me to reitreate, heavy diversion of public funds to the private schools is quite serious in France. This article may help you see as it compares how Americans are trying to do the same thing when it is big failure here (yet no one is really stopping it sadly). https://hechingerreport.org/can-sending-public-money-private-schools-improve-equity/ There is even a thing happening here where there are poor private schools that serve a false notion of "every child has full option to choose education" when in reality only the rich kids and particularly skilled can access the 'good" private schools
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May 22, 2019 19:49
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BougieBitch posted:The things that people have been saying from the start is that the X dollars spent on a grant for 300 iPads would be better spent on 300000 meals or whatever the conversion rate is. It's not to say that iPads are useless, but that you have to start from the bottom of the hierarchy of needs when deciding how to allocate resources. If food, shelter, and clean water aren't already accounted for, the iPads aren't going to be the most efficient way to improve outcomes. What doesn't that apply to? As long as their is poverty is math class or english class or anything of MORE benefit than actual food or housing? You have to start with the assumption education is of value to have at all. Otherwise you can just view every dollar spent on a math teacher teaching fractions as stealing a mouth food of food out of a starving kid's mouth. You gotta view education as having a mandate to do education, otherwise it's hard to name any class that is more important than a kid literally not having food. But the school can only do so much about that in the world they have. They can't just melt down the whole school into ending homelessness and not have class till it's solved.
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May 22, 2019 20:00
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nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:You are asking serious question? The private school for rich kids only quite obvious lacks poor children who would not be fed. Even when there are systems to give scholarship to rich kid private school, as my country has been pushing for the past 50 years, the poor kids often get booted out of school for a variety of reasons to keep the private school looking "good". Public schools largely do not get to boot out such children, who are likely to have poor outcome. I understand how these factors work. I don't believe you have actual data showing what you described in the quote.
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May 22, 2019 20:11
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Feeding kids breakfast and lunch has been proven to work. So does (did?) HeadStart IIRC. I agree. I'm referring to curriculum and technology efforts. I'm certain I'm going to get nailed for this, but my big gripe with education is that it kills motivation and enthusiasm for learning, and yes ... having hungry students plays a role in this ... but even in high-income wealthy areas, the students are bored out of their minds. The motto seems to be "until morale improves, the beatings will continue." Meanwhile, the 10-year-old who hates every minute of class time will spend hours building stuff in Minecraft. Maybe I was a goddammed fool for trying to create decent educational games, but my hope was that maybe we could create self-motivating stuff. Prior to "No Child Left Behind" (or as I liked to call it, "no wood for the fire until the fire burns hotter"), the tech funding was aimed at lower income schools. Having worked with educators and having (limited) teaching experience myself (physics and astronomy labs when I was in graduate school, as well as two years, teaching game design) there's a pretty defeatist attitude about improving anything. I do recommend the segment on schools in "Who Do We Invade Next." Of course when I share this with Chuds, they make racist comments, but gently caress them.
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May 22, 2019 20:16
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How about we get this thread back on topic by discussing how self-driving car companies treat human lives as the cost of beta testing their software? First I see this article from yesterday in my newsfeed: Tesla Autopilot suggests lane change into oncoming traffic Not being familiar with the source, I searched for a corroborating news article, and found this report by Consumer Reports posted only a few hours ago: Tesla's Navigate on Autopilot Requires Significant Driver Intervention quote:“The system’s role should be to help the driver, but the way this technology is deployed, it’s the other way around,” says Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports’ senior director of auto testing. “It’s incredibly nearsighted. It doesn’t appear to react to brake lights or turn signals, it can’t anticipate what other drivers will do, and as a result, you constantly have to be one step ahead of it.” 
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May 22, 2019 20:30
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Why would you say technology cannot solve all problems, says someone who doesn't think Capitalism and inequality are bigger factors.
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May 22, 2019 22:49
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anonumos posted:I don't think anyone is saying "Don't put computers in the classroom until the roof is fixed." I am. poo poo, I'll say it outright. Fix the goddamn roof (or the lead plumbing, or the heat, or the nutrition program) before you spend one thin dime on tech, because the first priority is the physical safety of the students. Children fundamentally will not have good outcomes in education if their basic physical needs (food, clean water, shelter) are not being met.
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May 22, 2019 22:54
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Liquid Communism posted:I am. What does that mean though? Are kids gonna eat math text books or art supplies? Should there just not be public education until hunger is solved? Is there some advantage to having the kids write a report on andrew jackson by looking in a set of encyclopedias over looking it up online? Are encyclopedias or worksheets or anything "low tech" just free now? Or is it just a general thing that they just cancel all the math classes forever until everything else in society is squared away? Or is there some specific concept that only technology costs money and classes could be run for free if you stopped it? Or that is a symbolic thing that schools can buy math workbooks to do math while the pipes are being sorted out and do math but ixl is somehow bad because it's not the way you did it as a kid?
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May 22, 2019 23:17
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What does that mean though? His post is obvious. Yours on the other hand can be summed up by that because holy poo poo what the gently caress that was literal word vomit
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May 22, 2019 23:34
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Ask not what tech can do for you, ask what you can do for tech
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May 22, 2019 23:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What does that mean though? Are kids gonna eat math text books or art supplies? Should there just not be public education until hunger is solved? Is there some advantage to having the kids write a report on andrew jackson by looking in a set of encyclopedias over looking it up online? Are encyclopedias or worksheets or anything "low tech" just free now? Or is it just a general thing that they just cancel all the math classes forever until everything else in society is squared away? Or is there some specific concept that only technology costs money and classes could be run for free if you stopped it? Or that is a symbolic thing that schools can buy math workbooks to do math while the pipes are being sorted out and do math but ixl is somehow bad because it's not the way you did it as a kid? It means, you disingenuous blow hard, that 'moar computar!' does not solve the basic problem. You know what does? Money. Cash. Cold, hard lucre. Spent first and foremost on those things necessary to providing a safe learning environment.
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May 22, 2019 23:57
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I usually give OOCC a pass but combined with this idiot there might be enough techsavior jerking off to rival Elon Musk's twitter posts. It's like a condensate of stupid.nepetaMisekiryoiki posted:So your belief is, it is impossible to make offline computer work? There is a little secret for you: a school can store video and audio and text on computers without having to be online. Hey now, that LA iPads thing is like the perfect example of "just tech" being both dumb and costly. The initial ipads had no enterprise controls. The program couldn't decide if it was 1 iPad at School or just a loaner that went home with kids. When the kids bypassed the joke lockdowns, the program became "iPads for smarter testing". This led to a massive wifi upgrade at all schools. Then the smart test that could change with student performance broke the day of the test run because people slamming servers and saturating bandwidth was just invented right there. Then kids lost their responses as they were typing, or were signed out of the test at random (assuming they could connect). Then they found out the kids did terribly on the writing part, because using the on screen keyboard dropped the visible response area to a tiny 2-line slit. Then they purchased iPad covers and wired keypads. Then the idiot that brought this 1.4 billion dollar headache upon everyone was sacked and he'll probably float on the Billionaire Charity Circuit until some other school hires him because fail upward every day. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 00:03 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 22, 2019 23:57
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You know what the best thing tech companies could do to help education is? Stop demanding property tax abatements. Refuse them entirely. Pay your goddamn taxes into the system that funds the schools.
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May 23, 2019 00:03
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Liquid Communism posted:You know what the best thing tech companies could do to help education is? well, tech companies can't feed and house everyone all the time, so they might as well engage in shady data collection and charter school schemes meant to undermine public education, luddite
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May 23, 2019 00:08
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Doggles posted:How about we get this thread back on topic by discussing how self-driving car companies treat human lives as the cost of beta testing their software?
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May 23, 2019 00:10
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Liquid Communism posted:You know what does? Money. Cash. Cold, hard lucre. Spent first and foremost on those things necessary to providing a safe learning environment. What learning using what materials do you allow until homeless is fully solved? Can they buy stuff but it had to be old tech stuff or is all learning presented in unfinished rooms by philosophers?
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May 23, 2019 00:16
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Funny how you complain about being homeless and yet when I give you 40 iPads you do not code yourself a house in which to live in.
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May 23, 2019 00:29
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What learning using what materials do you allow until homeless is fully solved? Can they buy stuff but it had to be old tech stuff or is all learning presented in unfinished rooms by philosophers? I'm not asking for a solution to homelessness, you idiot. I'm saying that it is a higher priority that school facilities not freeze, burn, fall down on, poison, starve, or otherwise cause harm to students than getting laptops in the classroom. I'd like to think that is the common sense (and legal minimum) expectation of a facility children are required by law to occupy for the majority of their day. Especially in one of the richest first world nations, where property values (and thus property tax valuations in places that are not California) have skyrocketed over the last few decades.
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May 23, 2019 00:52
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And once again, the entire start of this discussion was about a special grant that was specifically for people inventing tech that could replace teachers to "fix" schools, and an article about a 1 billion dollar boondoggle to dump iPads and software on schools that could have used the money for a million other little things. We're not talking about pawning the existing computer lab for a week of lunches. We're talking about where money should be going.
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May 23, 2019 01:04
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Liquid Communism posted:I'm not asking for a solution to homelessness, you idiot. gently caress you dude. As far as I know I'm the only person in this whole thread that actually works at a school with a bat infestation and lead in the pipes. Do you think I'm looking for less funding for schools? gently caress you. Do you think you are the first guy to say that teachers just need less stuff and we could fix the roof? or stop having the kids drink out of water coolers because the water is bad? We did the math, it doesn't add up. There is no classroom penny pinching that works out, they fired everyone they could (they fired the computer teacher that did IT previously!), they closed the library, art and music got a combined room/budget, the foreign language guy and the algebra teacher are in on the same traveling deal I am, but the school still has to open tomorrow and have classes, and that means buying books or mimeographs or vhs tapes or something to teach the kids and they don't sell that stuff anymore. So some 'just stop buying ipads" thing doesn't work. Some, "before you teach poetry feed every hungry kid" is a great idea, but the school isn't allowed to close entirely and transition into that stuff, it's a law that you can't stop having classes and spend the money to feed everyone, it's a law in six grade you gotta teach how to "Solve unit rate problems including those involving unit pricing and constant speed." or whatever and spending that money to fix homelessness instead isn't an option. So the goal of schools in the world now is to figure out how to teach under the constraints we have.
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May 23, 2019 01:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:gently caress you dude. As far as I know I'm the only person in this whole thread that actually works at a school with a bat infestation and lead in the pipes. Do you think I'm looking for less funding for schools? gently caress you. You are the first person in this thread dumb enough to read 'adding more tech funding without fixing the other issues won't fix poo poo' as wanting to take away funding from teachers.
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May 23, 2019 01:40
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anonumos posted:I don't think anyone is saying "Don't put computers in the classroom until the roof is fixed." Don't put computers in the classroom until the roof is fixed. And all of the students are fed. And the classroom has basic supplies that they teacher or the student's parents didn't have to provide out of pocket.
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May 23, 2019 02:03
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ChipNDip posted:Don't put computers in the classroom until the roof is fixed. So like what happens when the mimeograph machine breaks and the encyclopedias is out of date and the roof is still bad? Just no more classes? Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 02:29 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 02:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What does that mean though? Are kids gonna eat math text books or art supplies? Should there just not be public education until hunger is solved? Is there some advantage to having the kids write a report on andrew jackson by looking in a set of encyclopedias over looking it up online? Are encyclopedias or worksheets or anything "low tech" just free now? Or is it just a general thing that they just cancel all the math classes forever until everything else in society is squared away? Or is there some specific concept that only technology costs money and classes could be run for free if you stopped it? Or that is a symbolic thing that schools can buy math workbooks to do math while the pipes are being sorted out and do math but ixl is somehow bad because it's not the way you did it as a kid? God drat, this is so disingenuous. DO BOTH. The only reason we're not doing it already is arguments like this where education funding is treated like a zero sum game. In reality education has taken cut after cut to pay for increased public funding, because THAT is also treated like a zero sum game, too.
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May 23, 2019 02:43
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i wonder how many pages oocc can keep repeating his argument which he is having by himself, related to nobody else's arguments itt, rooted only in his need to beat up an imaginary opponent
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May 23, 2019 02:45
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Could rebuild that roof with all the straw, man.
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May 23, 2019 03:06
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Trevor Hale posted:Could rebuild that roof with all the straw, man. Literally a real school that I literally work at. It in real life has bats in the ceiling. They are working on fixing that. They are working on fixing society to get school funding in general I'm sure. But like, tomorrow morning they also need to teach what a shield volcano is to a bunch of kids. And some dumb "buy everyone food then don't buy computers" is just meaningless. There is only so many more years that they are going to even print encyclopedias or make mimeographs or film strips or vhs tapes. That stuff wears out, and needs to be replaced, and you can't just keep it being 1987 forever. There is no path 10 years from now where you don't have computers. Demanding they are an extravagance and their funding needs to be taken and given to some other social program like feeding the hungry is paramount to dismantling public education.
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May 23, 2019 03:20
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https://twitter.com/everestpipkin/status/1131352296858816515 Will the real Amazon please stand up?
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May 23, 2019 03:59
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Absurd Alhazred posted:https://twitter.com/everestpipkin/status/1131352296858816515 quote:It would also provide up to nine domain names for ACTO countries to use for non-commercial purposes to “highlight the region’s culture and heritage.” This is satire right?
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May 23, 2019 04:08
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Raldikuk posted:This is satire right? The world we live in? Yes.
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May 23, 2019 04:16
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Literally a real school that I literally work at. Owlofcreamcheese, why do you want to starve children? Clearly by your logic the only options are 'moar computar' or 'feed the kids', and you've made amply clear which you prefer, so why do you find that morally acceptable?
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May 23, 2019 04:21
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Liquid Communism posted:Owlofcreamcheese, why do you want to starve children? Schools do educatIon. there should be multiple social programs each mandated to cover separate issues. It’s the only way anything can function.
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May 23, 2019 04:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Schools do educatIon. there should be multiple social programs each mandated to cover separate issues. It’s the only way anything can function. There are some children that only receive food at school. Doesn't matter what social programs their parents utilize, the children do not see much benefit from them. Most schools in impoverished areas have a program setup to send food home with children for the weekend.
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May 23, 2019 04:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Schools do educatIon. there should be multiple social programs each mandated to cover separate issues. It’s the only way anything can function. These crazy bastards are just wasting money! Look man, no one's going to rip the Chromebooks and iPads out of the walls. Like obviously there's a benefit to access to technology in schools. What's a waste of everyone's time is the idea and practice of just throwing TECH at institutions and thinking there is some arcane truth in the silicon wafers that radiates KNOWLEDGE and provides some kind of Smart Multiplier the more ipads you have. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 05:02 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 04:55
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