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Part 6 is absolutely fantastic, both if you look at it's contemporaries, and just a really fascinating story by itself and then there's Part 7 which for me transcends battle manga and becomes something you should read if you just like to consume great media of any type.Waffleman_ posted:So I did a thing for when we start Steel Ball Read  wow i guess now we really have to do it
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Jun 3, 2019 01:57
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i might be biased but steel ball read is required to happen
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Jun 3, 2019 02:01
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Hell yeah steel ball read
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Jun 3, 2019 02:12
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Like a winter catfish
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Jun 3, 2019 03:44
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Getting to the end of 6. Think I really like Jolyne. She really makes this her story where her path is decided by her decisions.
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Jun 3, 2019 06:15
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Jolyne is some good fuckin' mojo
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Jun 3, 2019 07:52
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Yeah, Part 6 is great in the context of JoJos, Part 7 is great in the context of basically any manga you care to mention. Also, Steel Ball fuckin' Read.
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Jun 3, 2019 21:16
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Jolyne is always a top three JoJo's. She's cool, funny and sincerely cares about poo poo. Like it's easy to forget that Giorno wants to be a Gang-Star and hates drugs, but Jolyne always feels like a super active participant. One of my favorite scenes is (ending stretch of Part 6) when Weather dies and she feels it's her fault, and all she wants to do is give up and mourn. She gets past it obviously, but her vulnerability isn't painted as a bad thing, she's allowed to feel it, and to feel really confused afterwards but she keeps on anyway. It's everything about Joseph and Lisa Lisa mourning Caesar but it feels earned and cool. Also Part 6 is just constantly really funny, there's a million dumb gags like throwing poo poo at alligators, or Emporio holding his hand out to give Hermes something but then a big computer comes out and Hermes drops it cause she wasn't expecting it
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Jun 3, 2019 21:33
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When I was reading it, Part 6 felt like a bit of a slog because of fight fatigue and the weird elf people. Looking back on it, it's one of my favorite parts though. There were some nice character moments and it was pretty funny and cool. Wish I felt the same way about Part 5 
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Jun 3, 2019 21:44
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Expect My Mom posted:Jolyne is always a top three JoJo's. She's cool, funny and sincerely cares about poo poo. Like it's easy to forget that Giorno wants to be a Gang-Star and hates drugs, but Jolyne always feels like a super active participant. The comedy in part 6 is probably the best comedy in JoJos. Like the big Seinfeldian conversation over what the opposite of pork is.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:03
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The first scene is literally a contest to see who can go without masturbating the longest. Part 6 is the Seinfeldiest Jojo.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:15
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The main issue I hear with pt6 is definitely the fight fatigue. It's like Mad Max Fury Road, a 2 hour car chase scene. It gets a little tiring for some people. Fortunately, I was not one of those people.  Part 6 is somewhere in my top 3 because its hard to properly rank stuff outside of SBR being number 1.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:17
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I was talking to my friend watching the Golden Wind anime with me about the upcoming His Dark Materials HBO show about how it’s set in a world where everyone has a stand, and it’s about catholic priests who want to steal kids’ stands as part of a evil but arguably well-intentioned plot to change the cosmic order of fate and life and death. It then occurred to me that that’s Pucci. The girl just has Thoth/Hermit Purple, and the kid they add later has D4C. I guess. Also: TBH while I love the characters and fights of Part 6, I kind of hate the plot because I have difficulty buying that Dio’s ultimate master plan was to create a world where nobody experienced ennui. Like why the gently caress would he even care.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:19
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I think a lot of that fatigue is also because most people probably started Part 6 immediately after Part 5, which is also very fight heavy, especially in the latter half. It definitely was for me. I wonder if the anime giving a little room to breathe between the two will affect perceptions of it in that way.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:20
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I also think that part of it is that a lot of us just tore through it the because we had the entire manga in front of us, having a week between each episode could probably help a bitLiquid Dinosaur posted:Also: TBH while I love the characters and fights of Part 6, I kind of hate the plot because I have difficulty buying that Dio’s ultimate master plan was to create a world where nobody experienced ennui. Like why the gently caress would he even care.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:25
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Also, y'know, he spent a hundred years in a coffin under the sea.
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Jun 3, 2019 23:42
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Dragonatrix posted:Also, y'know, he spent a hundred years in a coffin under the sea. Oh what's becoming of him?
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Jun 3, 2019 23:46
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Expect My Mom posted:literally every conversation DIO has in Part 3 is about conquering fear, how that is what limits people from their potential, and that only by mastering that could he be God of this world, creating a Heaven if you will. It's def a bit retcon-y but really not that drastic of a character change. was that actually DIO's plan, or did he just want the Strongest Stand?
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Jun 4, 2019 01:15
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I mean, the reason that the World is so perfect to DIO is that it conquers his fear, it gives him a space where he can never be attacked and can do what he likes and to DIO, that peace of mind is what makes him strong. The World is strong, but it's not unbeatable, Kakyoin figures it out and it doesn't stop Polnareff from being so close to killing him. There's bad retcons wrt DIO, Over Heaven saying that he actually hated his mother and loved his father which is the opposite of what we see, so for DIO to actually have been hanging out with this priest all day and explore more thoughts about eliminating all human fear, feels pretty legit to me. As a side note, it is very interesting that so many JoJo villains are obsessed with their peace of mind. They all want to eliminate fear on a micro or macro level, and it's their dedication to that goal that makes them evil
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Jun 4, 2019 01:29
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It only makes sense really, that when the protagonists are defined by their courage, the ultimate villains are all defined by fear
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Jun 4, 2019 02:11
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reread part 5 and i forgot that in addition to GER's ability being the opposite of king crimson's "skip the journey to get to the result" thing, Diavolo's first death was at the hands of one of the drug addicts his gang created. so it's an ironic defeat for multiple reasons
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Jun 4, 2019 03:17
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Finally started reading this series after watching some anime clips and it owns. One of the many things I like about is that none of Jojos are the typical shounen dumbass main character. They know their limits and fight cleverly rather than just rushing in. Polnareff embodies the hotblooded type that rushes in and he's always the one who gets his rear end kicked or needs to be saved.
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Jun 4, 2019 03:44
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I enjoy Parts 5 and 6, but neither really stuck the landing for me. I've never found Diavolo particularly compelling as a villain, and while Pucci's great the last third of Part 6 succumbs to power creep in a big way that undermines a lot of what I like about the series. Like okay, yeah, it's weird, weird's cool, but structurally it sacrifices a lot to get where it's going. Even contextualizing it as "The End" of the series (which it ultimately wasn't), it's never sat right with me, and I'm not talking about the ending. But Jolyne's cool and I like Hermes and Foo Fighter a bunch, and I like how Pucci adds another layer to Dio. Part 7 is almost a masterpiece but trips up a little near the end, though not as badly. That final fight is just too long, and High Voltage is a bit lacking as a plot element, though I'm a big fan of how it wraps up. Part 8...I suppose I should reserve judgment until it's complete, but I haven't been feeling it. I didn't feel Part 4 on my first read either (nowadays I dig it), but my issue with Part 4 was different than the issues I have with Part 8.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:31
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I’m perfectly content with how long D4C—> Love Train —> Ball Breaker is because it feels earned and the whole battle is absolutely excellent from beginning to end. I also like High Voltage a lot as a way of rounding out Johnny’s journey.
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Jun 4, 2019 16:06
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High Voltage is still kinda weird to me. I like it as a cool fanservice epilogue to bring back a time stopping bad guy, but I feel it kinda of works against Diego's character as someone who wasn't truly a villain. Johnny also doesn't gain total victory over him despite cool moments like Tusk Act 4 moving in the stopped time, but also Lucy presenting Diego his own head to kill him is really cool. If Only There Was A Way To Re-Read It And Look At It With Fresh Eyes also I personally really like the final stretch of Part 6, starting around Weather getting his memory back. It's the Bizarre-ness turned up to eleven and while I get why that's not enough on it's own, it really sells for me how huge the stakes are. Climbing out of a plane underneath a hospital while everyone's turning into snails and approaching Cape Canaveral only to see dozens of cars and people flying away from it as gravity itself is being changed, it all really feels like the sky is falling, like Pucci really has a great chance of winning, and for the end of this Saga of the JoJo universe, it feels really fitting
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Jun 4, 2019 16:48
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like there's a part early on when we see C-Moon for the first time where the gravity is so strong that Jolyne's fingers are forced back into her hand and come out the other side as bloody tusks and that is so disgusting and hosed up and cool, it's so  to me, I love it.and that's all before Jolyne's body starts getting twisted inside out so she has to mobius strip herself that RULES man
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Jun 4, 2019 16:51
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if someone doesn't think jolyne is dope as gently caress after seeing her light herself on fire and turn herself into a mobius strip then that's all the evidence i need that they have incredibly bad taste
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Jun 4, 2019 16:53
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Parts 4-7 are all top tier to me for different reasons. Part 4 is the first to start with a good formula that part 3 didn't really hit its stride with for a while, and has some of the most developed and interesting characters in the series. Part 5 has some of my favorite fights in the series, Beach Boys loving rules and White Album onward are all favorites. The final boss fight doesn't quite stick the landing for me, but I appreciate how big and dumb it is lol. Part 6 also has incredible fights, is also impressively big and dumb, and like, I'm beyond gay for Jolyne hell yeah. I really appreciate how loving wild all the stands are, and Stone Free is easily my favorite stand design. After the big peak in stand power, part 7 feels like a good reset, and is just impeccable, with some of the best character stuff since part 4. Like, entirely off of that part 7 is probably my favorite if only by a hair over the other 3 lol At this point I'm ready for part 8 to end, partially bc it isn't all landing with me, and partially because I feel like it will be a lot better to read without monthly breaks. Turns out mystery stuff that isn't really organized the best doesn't benefit from me forgetting the entire plot between every chapter 
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Jun 4, 2019 17:05
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Yeah, I was able to accept High Voltage in the end by virtue of how it rounds out Johnny's (and Lucy's) arc; I just wish it hadn't hijacked Diego in the process. On the other hand, I burst out laughing when I got to the part where his disqualification gave the win to Poco Loco. I still like the final fight with Valentine overall, I just feel like there were bits here and there that could've been trimmed, specific sections that felt prolonged. The core developments were great, just the pacing might've been tighter.
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Jun 4, 2019 17:07
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I dunno, Diego was still kinda a bad guy. He was much more sympathetic than DIO, sure, but he still wanted the corpse in order to rule over humanity and was only allied against Valentine out of necessity. He was more callous than outright cruel, but still. I accepted Alternate Universe Diego being more twisted and resembling DIO a lot more as being just because, well, he was a different Diego. I agree tho about C-Moon being a rad fight.
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Jun 4, 2019 17:11
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Finished part 6. I think I might reread at some point, that's a pretty odd vision for a new world but it's on me that I didn't see what Dio and Pucci were thinking about in their parts. I've found Dio interesting as a villain because he has the presence of The Devil and actually embodies that myth, completely iredeemable evil but enthralling. The contrast of his closest companion being a priest is fitting. I guess with Dio's constant disgust with others "weakness" that a world where everyone understands their place is kind of what's being gone for. I actually liked the power creep near the end being this rush of insane worldbending stands brought on by a prophecy, it's fitting for it to feel like some kind of bizarre apocalypse myth (and so the verses say that cartoon characters will all come to life and steal people's souls, and then gravity will go sideways, and then time will stop make sense...). And even in the end, it's still Jolyne who finds a way to stop Pucci. So Jolyne's story is that she breaks out maximum security prison to stop a world ending threat and her power is just super-sewing and actively hurts herself to use too much, never gets a power upgrade, and still manages to win after getting killed. So of the jojo's she has the most poo poo thrown at her with the least broken powers and still comes out on top. She's the best Jojo and that's all there is to say on the matter. Hemingway To Go! fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 17:47
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i was always fine with the ramping up in part 6 because realistically with all the weird bullshit in the series all it'd take is a match and some special kindling to make poo poo go ablaze
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Jun 4, 2019 18:19
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The Best JoJo conversation is really only Jolyne or Johnny let's be honest
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Jun 4, 2019 19:15
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Expect My Mom posted:The Best JoJo conversation is really only Jolyne or Johnny let's be honest 
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Jun 4, 2019 19:20
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it's not even remotely a contest for me in that i'll always say that jolyne is just outright the most badass jojo and anyone who disagrees can get bent she's basically like her dad but just straight up more vocal about everything and does the most fuckwild crazy poo poo to accomplish her goals. her power even comes down to 'i'm going to expend myself to get this done and put myself on the line every single time'. she frequently puts her own body at risk and it's dope as gently caress because she has like no hesitation about it. i even spent some pocket change to re-name and re-avatar this account to another jojo and i'm saying this, i mean it so much.
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Jun 4, 2019 19:23
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part 6 has its flaws but jolyne is definitely not one of them.
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Jun 4, 2019 20:13
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Johnny Joestar posted:it's not even remotely a contest for me in that i'll always say that jolyne is just outright the most badass jojo and anyone who disagrees can get bent I've always thought that Jolyne is, fittingly, the perfected form of Jotaro i.e. Jotaro is Araki creating a character who he thinks is badass, whereas Jolyne is Araki creating a character who is actually badass. Don´t get me wrong, Jotaro is cool and all, but a lot of the time in Part 3 it seems as though nothing really disturbs him or hurts him, and it can feel slightly artificial. Even when he's fighting DIO his attitude is generally blasé despite having to stop and restart his heart (which he treats as a mild inconvenience). Jotaro is super stoic and stares everything down because he, and by extension the reader, knows that nothing can really hurt him. Not so with Jolyne. She spends the entirety of her story at a huge disadvantage compared to her opponents, who know more than she does and are more powerful. She also stares everything down like her pops, but unlike him, she never has the upper hand; so when she beats her opponents by the skin of her teeth it feels all the more satisfying. When Jotaro beats someone down, it feels expected; when Jolyne does it, it feels earned. Honestly yeah, I like Steel Ball Run a whole lot more than Stone Ocean but Jolyne is my favorite JoJo by a wide margin.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:06
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For me, it's Johnny's arc that makes him my favorite. His self-loathing feels genuine and earned, and he has enough moments of his Dark Determination to raise the question of if he actually is a Hero. I love his questioning of himself, if maybe he should just let Valentine win right now. I love his attachment to Gyro as a symbol of hope and their relationship feels so real of two people learning from each other and becoming one of the most important figures in each other's lives, where he actually would just give up to have some form, any form, of Gyro back in his life. Johnny feels like a realistic, flawed person. Jolyne is great too obviously, everything everyone has said about her is totally true. I'm looking forward to re-experiencing Stone Ocean again, this time looking for more of her relationship with Jotaro. In a world of things like Boruto and My Hero Academia, even Bad Dad Goku, exploring ideas of parenthood, I think JoJo has always had some interesting ideas on it too, with Joseph/Josuke and Jotaro/Jolyne being interesting examples of messy yet positive role models.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:20
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both jolyne and johnny are good as gently caress but they're good in different but equal ways and depending on what i'm looking for they tend to cover the spread as far as i'm concerned. johnny definitely evolves a lot better and has more development but jolyne's strength is starting out at a better place than most and only improving as time goes on even if she ends up a bit short compared to johnny at the end.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:22
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jotaro's personality remained completely static throughout part 3. poo poo, even through part 6! aside from learning how to stop time, he never grew or changed at all. by contrast, jolyne started out as a normal person and had to harden up fast. but then, she just kept getting more and more hardcore.
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Jun 4, 2019 21:30
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