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Mike N Eich posted:I was just thinking about it because my friend is listening to the audiobooks, but I just realized Roy Dotrice is dead. So the Mountain That Doesn't Write has denied his audience his sweet sweet narration. On the other hand his Tyrion is so far from the TV show that going back to the books again when the next one comes out next year would just be jarring. They should hire Don Leslie and have him do the voice he used for this incredibly bad revisionist book One of the worst books I ever "read" in my whole life but that voice is fantastic.
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Jun 3, 2019 17:26
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pseudanonymous posted:What drains does a medieval castle even have? They don't have internal plumbing afaik. They just dump stuff outside somewhere. So what is he even talking about the drains. firstof all medieval europe had better plumbing than you probably think, especially if you get out of england and look at the continent southern europe in particular had some good poo poo infrastructure then the regular toilet got invented in the 1500s (by one of Kit Harington's aristocratic forebears!!!) and that ain't too far off from Gurm Times in a lot of ways More importantly, casterly rock is not a regular ol castle it's a big fuckoff Fantasy Dwarf underground complex probably got all kinds of hydraulics and clockpunk nonsense in there that you wouldn't see elsewhere in westeros PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 17:51
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PupsOfWar posted:firstof all medieval europe had better plumbing than you probably think, especially if you get out of england and look at the continent Neat fanfic. Too bad there's no textual support for any of it.
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Jun 3, 2019 18:12
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In the books Winterfell has hot water from thermal springs going through the walls of the castle to heat it. Which just sounds so incredibly dumb. Did anyone ever find themselves wondering "gee golly how do they heat this whole place?"
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Jun 3, 2019 18:18
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pseudanonymous posted:Neat fanfic. Too bad there's no textual support for any of it. what
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Jun 3, 2019 18:21
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like are you saying casterly rock is not in fact a giant underground complex built into thousands of years' worth of mined-out tunnels and galleries because it is that you cant go around declaring that cool things in the setting are fanfic just because you don't want them to be cool PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 18:28
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I don't remember anything from the books saying that.
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Jun 3, 2019 19:22
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Kylaer posted:I don't remember anything from the books saying that. It could be in the extended universe, I don't know, I refuse to read Dunk & poo poo or Fire & poo poo until he finishes the series (he won't).
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Jun 3, 2019 19:40
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Kylaer posted:I don't remember anything from the books saying that. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Casterly_Rock#Layout The wiki cites "The World of Ice & Fire" which is basically a circular reference. (the wiki admins wrote that book) The closest thing to a book reference appears to be a dream from an ASoS Jaime chapter?
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Jun 3, 2019 19:58
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I refuse to acknowledge the EU, it's even more stupid than the books themselves #westerexit
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Jun 3, 2019 20:01
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I'm probably missing a bunch of obvious ones but it always seemed odd to me that the explosion in inter-Great House marriages is fairly recent, and I guess probably due to perceived weakness in the Targaryen line? Like Tywin married his cousin, so did Rickard Stark, Hoster Tully married a Whent which is a Riverlands family, etc. Then all of a sudden this generation you had this huge planned Stark-Baratheon-Tully-Arryn alliance and meanwhile Tywin was trying to marry his kids directly into the royal family and all these other schemes. Am I just missing other marriages between Great Houses or is there some stated reason (either in the books or in a supplemental source like Fire and Blood/WoIaF or whatever) that explains why the Great Houses tended to be fairly insular until recently in Westeros' history?
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Jun 3, 2019 20:13
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Jaime and Tyrion both touch briefly on the tunnels and cave systems beneath Casterly Rock in some chapters, iirc, as well as mention that the gold mines are supposed to be beneath the castle as well? Also the Lannisters traditionally kept lions in cages down there lmbo, I think it's a Cersei chapter where that's mentioned and how she was brave enough to go inside the cage and touch one of the lions on a dare from Jaime.
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Jun 3, 2019 20:24
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Kylaer posted:I don't remember anything from the books saying that. a lot of specific descriptions come from the worldbook sure but if for some reason we're disqualifying that, the novels themselves provide enough to know that the rock is underground and real big Guy A. Person posted:I'm probably missing a bunch of obvious ones but it always seemed odd to me that the explosion in inter-Great House marriages is fairly recent, and I guess probably due to perceived weakness in the Targaryen line? it's implied that Lords Paramount about 20 years prior to the books were planning to depose Aerys in favor of Rhaegar (with Rhaegar's consent) until lyanna's kidnapping set off the dominos and forced them to adjust on the fly presumably they were forming close marriage alliances in support of this impending conflict against the crown so yeah it's an unusual thing they were doing as part of some scheme
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Jun 3, 2019 20:27
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PupsOfWar posted:it's implied that Lords Paramount about 20 years prior to the books were planning to depose Aerys in favor of Rhaegar (with Rhaegar's consent) until lyanna's kidnapping set off the dominos and forced them to adjust on the fly Yeah that's specifically what I was figuring but it also seemed a bit odd to me that there wasn't this constant jockeying for positioning by intermarrying going on before, unless there was some specific reason not to. Also why the Martell and Lannister schemes to marry their children to Rhaegar just happened to coincide with the scheme mentioned above.
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Jun 3, 2019 20:31
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there was constant jockeying for position before, how have you read these books and not noticed that relationships with the lords under them is vitally important for the lords paramount?
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Jun 3, 2019 21:12
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yeah i can see where it would just be considered more useful for Lord Paramount X to use marriages to maintain the loyalty of his bannermen, or just poach dowries off of whoever happens to be rich lately cross-kingdom marriages seem like something you'd do if you were trying to be continental hegemon or if you wanted to secure yourself against cross-kingdom warfare, things that would be less relevant during the period of strong centralized Targ authority. Targs might even have discouraged it, to avoid the exact thing that happened to Aerys. therefor I would guess it was more common pre-conquest, but we don't have family trees back that far the lannisters' insistence on a cersei-rhaegar marriage i think was just a general ego/ambition thing from tywin and cersei they had previously entertained other offers, but that seems to've fallen apart when Joanna died and left those two to go buck wild imho it would be extremely in-character for tywin to know about the other lords' scheming, but think he was hard enough to keep Aerys in line by himself the martells...idk if they were scheming at all the elia marriage seems to have been proposed by aerys just to spite tywin possibly the martells just unexpectedly got the royal marriage offer and didn't feel able to refuse it PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 21:31
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yeah iirc the Martells intitially offered both Elia and Oberyn as matches for Jaime and Cersei, but Tywin was either a. too prideful and wanted better than Dornish spouses b. still in a mad depression/rage over Joanna's recent death or c. both.
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Jun 3, 2019 21:33
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violent sex idiot posted:there was constant jockeying for position before, how have you read these books and not noticed that relationships with the lords under them is vitally important for the lords paramount? No, I get that too. I guess maybe that's the disconnect I was having? Maybe prior to the Mad King most of the Great House marriages were arranged as a way to keep their own vassals loyal, and if they had just been constantly intermarrying between Great Houses it would be seen as a betrayal. But then when it was obvious they needed strong alliances to enact their coup they decided to risk it. And that explains Lady Dustin being pissed about it.
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Jun 3, 2019 21:35
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i think everyone agrees the show omitting the Tysha reveal was really bad, but imo not really talking about Joanna other than like twice is almost as bad vis a vis tywin and cersei both going way the gently caress off the deep end
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Jun 3, 2019 21:40
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PupsOfWar posted:i think everyone agrees the show omitting the Tysha reveal was really bad, but imo not really talking about Joanna other than like twice is almost as bad 
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Jun 3, 2019 21:43
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PupsOfWar posted:i think everyone agrees the show omitting the Tysha reveal was really bad, but imo not really talking about Joanna other than like twice is almost as bad I hope its because Peter Dinklage threatened to walk if they made him ask "where do whores go" every other sentence to be true to the books.
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Jun 3, 2019 21:59
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hobbesmaster posted:I hope its because Peter Dinklage threatened to walk if they made him ask "where do whores go" every other sentence to be true to the books. Besides, if they did D&D would feel compelled to include Tysha back into the story and we'd get some Sand Snakes level character fuckery.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:20
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pseudanonymous posted:What drains does a medieval castle even have? They don't have internal plumbing afaik. They just dump stuff outside somewhere. So what is he even talking about the drains. The toilets were mounted over vertical shafts. The poo either dropped into a pit or the shaft emptied at the bottom of an outside wall. Gong farmers would periodically empty the poo pits with shovels. In some cases storm drains were linked in to the poop chute to help drain it. I remember this from reading Cross-Sections: Castle when I was a kid
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Jun 4, 2019 04:24
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Kylaer posted:I don't remember anything from the books saying that. We know from the main series text (not from AWOIAF) that the chambers at Casterly Rock are underground, windowless, people feel uneasy from the feeling of all the rock above you, the overall size of the complex is comparable to Harrenhall as far larger than any other in Westeros, and the Rock is riddled with tunnels.
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Jun 4, 2019 05:26
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MikeJF posted:We know from the main series text (not from AWOIAF) that the chambers at Casterly Rock are underground, windowless, people feel uneasy from the feeling of all the rock above you, the overall size of the complex is comparable to Harrenhall as far larger than any other in Westeros, and the Rock is riddled with tunnels. Due to GRRM's scatological focus we know it's riddled with sewers because those are most of Tyrion's childhood memories. From the guy who set Beauty and the Beast in--wait for it--the sewer.
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Jun 4, 2019 05:55
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Well yeah, sewers combine his favorite things: liquid and poo poo.
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Jun 4, 2019 06:45
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hobbesmaster posted:I hope its because Peter Dinklage threatened to walk if they made him ask "where do whores go" every other sentence to be true to the books. seriously though, where DO whores go? I mean - is tyrion looking for her? Is he going to find her? does it turn out she is now a whore? where the gently caress are you going with this poo poo Gurm.
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Jun 4, 2019 07:25
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kcroy posted:seriously though, where DO whores go? I mean - is tyrion looking for her? Is he going to find her? does it turn out she is now a whore? where the gently caress are you going with this poo poo Gurm. Honest answer? Whores are people too. They go wherever people do. GRRM in spite of all his many faults likes indicting Kings and Priests. Whores go on to have families and businesses and normal lives. As long as the loving Wheel is BROKEN
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Jun 4, 2019 08:14
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tawdry sack of poo poo
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Jun 4, 2019 11:57
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kcroy posted:seriously though, where DO whores go? I mean - is tyrion looking for her? Is he going to find her? does it turn out she is now a whore? where the gently caress are you going with this poo poo Gurm. I didn't think this was so bad. Tyrion's life, sexually, has been pretty hosed up. He has a love/hate relationship with whores, because he lost his virginity to a girl, Tysha whom he helped save on the road, marries her, then his father finds out, and forces Tyrion to take part in a gang-rape of her and then pay her, turning her into a whore. Then his father and brother (the only one he trusts/loves) lie and say she was always a whore. And weirdly she has a kind of Lannister name - Ty. In the hosed up world of Planetos that means she's probably his cousin or something. So Tyrion takes to whoring. Then he ends up in a somewhat hosed up relationship with Shae, whom he clearly has affection for, but part of the attraction is probably that bringing her to King's Landing is in defiance of his father. And of course Shae lies and gives damning testimony in his trial then compounds that by loving his father. When Tyrion is helped to escape from his cell, he goes to confront his father, probably looking for solace or absolution or revenge, or some messed up mix of all three, and is quite in his face about whores, who have been an important part of his life, thus far. And lo and behold his father mocks him to his face and even with a crossbow trained on him disprespects Tyrion again, saying "wherever whores go". Tyrion murders his own father, kinslaying, one of the big taboos. Tyrion is intensely traumatized by all this, and can't get past it, and thus the mantra "where do whores go." He's probably saying a lot by saying this over and over, saying "how can I get Tysha back" "would she take me back" "she's probably lost forever" "what have i done I killed my father". Saying this over and over to me doesn't seem like bad or particularly repetitive writing, lots of people can't get over trauma, and revisit it in some way. That three and ten poo poo though, that got old.
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Jun 4, 2019 12:14
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I re read the book where brienne wanders round for ages looking for Sansa in isolation on holiday one year and it was great. It drags in relation to, and when read in conjunction with the other books but I really enjoyed it on the second read through, I just think its pacing is off compared to the others.
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Jun 4, 2019 12:43
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Casterly Rock is supposed to be like Gibraltar. Removing Aerys was supposed to be like the Glorious Revolution but turned into the War of the Roses. The Wall is inspired by the Roman Wall. What other parallels, inspirations or straight copy/pasta is there in the books of real life? Lannister = Lancashire. York = Stark? Baratheon = Tudor? Littlefinger = Richard II? Dorn is pretty much Al Andalus. There some scholar who believe Al Andalus and the reconquista did as much as the crusades and the plague in ending fudalism.
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Jun 4, 2019 13:02
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Bear and the Maiden Fair = Blurred Lines
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Jun 4, 2019 13:17
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Collateral posted:Casterly Rock is supposed to be like Gibraltar. Removing Aerys was supposed to be like the Glorious Revolution but turned into the War of the Roses. The Wall is inspired by the Roman Wall. What other parallels, inspirations or straight copy/pasta is there in the books of real life? Lannister = Lancashire. York = Stark? Baratheon = Tudor? Littlefinger = Richard II? Dorn is pretty much Al Andalus. There some scholar who believe Al Andalus and the reconquista did as much as the crusades and the plague in ending fudalism. There's a ton of these: http://bfy.tw/NxKW It also depends on how specific you want to be, how close a fictional event needs to match up with history. Dynastic struggles and battles went on for thousands of years so there's a lot of things that can be seen as parallels.
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Jun 4, 2019 14:16
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https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1135849941870530560
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Jun 4, 2019 15:36
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Thank god he's finding things to distract himself from writing the books. Is he actually like, a good writer other than ASoIaF? I've never read any of his sci-fi stuff or anything else by him.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:45
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pseudanonymous posted:Thank god he's finding things to distract himself from writing the books. Yeah, Riverdream is pretty good although I read that a long time ago. I liked some of his short stories as well, like Sandkings: https://forwearemany.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sandkings.pdf
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Jun 4, 2019 15:53
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Yeah, Riverdream is pretty good although I read that a long time ago. I liked some of his short stories as well, like Sandkings: https://forwearemany.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sandkings.pdf That's the one that got used for the new outer limits right? That was neato.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:55
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pseudanonymous posted:That's the one that got used for the new outer limits right? That was neato. Yep that's the one, I had no idea it got put to film so now I know what I'm watching tonight! it's Chernobyl E5 because gently caress GRRM
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Jun 4, 2019 16:00
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Collateral posted:Casterly Rock is supposed to be like Gibraltar. Removing Aerys was supposed to be like the Glorious Revolution but turned into the War of the Roses. The Wall is inspired by the Roman Wall. What other parallels, inspirations or straight copy/pasta is there in the books of real life? Lannister = Lancashire. York = Stark? Baratheon = Tudor? Littlefinger = Richard II? Dorn is pretty much Al Andalus. There some scholar who believe Al Andalus and the reconquista did as much as the crusades and the plague in ending fudalism. The Red Wedding is inspired the the Campbell-Macdonald feud where the MacDonalds gave shelter one night and we're murdered in their beds.
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Jun 4, 2019 16:07
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