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ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.


The most unrealistic thing in Eva is that the UN is a powerful institution with almost unlimited funding.

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SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

ATP_Power posted:

The most unrealistic thing in Eva is that the UN is a powerful institution with almost unlimited funding.

It probably absorbed/got absorbed by NATO in some capacity and is mostly backed by those countries. IIRC, Russia isn't mentioned as much as China, Germany and the US.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

ATP_Power posted:

The most unrealistic thing in Eva is that the UN is a powerful institution with almost unlimited funding.
yep

if this was realistic they would have to be making a profit off the evas to justify saving the world

Skypie
Sep 28, 2008

Beefstew posted:

The elevator scene is unironically amazing.

I forgot how long it actually was and thought my stream had frozen for a second

Arkhams Razor
Jun 10, 2009
Found this thread in the tweet linked earlier that seems to provide some context for the translation:

quote:

Here's the thing... It could be either/or in the context of Japanese terror.

I don't know the full details of Eva's production history, but I know the Aum affair absolutely did have an effect on Evangelion's production and the series didn't premiere until 6 months after 3/20/95.

The translation hinges on the use of the word "セクト" which is straight up just "sect."

Historically, "セクト" has been used as shorthand for "sectarian" and the word "sect" as in "religious sect."

"セクト" was commonly used when referring to the Japanese New Left.

Aum Shinrikyo is absolutely the most prominent example of violent extremism in Japan and for good reason.

But the HISTORY of extremism and terrorism in Japan is way more than Aum Shinrikyo. The New Left and the Student Movement, what it gave rise to, is JUST as well remembered.

Things like the burning of the Tokyo U library during New Left student riots and the year college was canceled

Terrorist groups like Japanese Red Army, United Red Army, EAAJAF, etc

Mass murders like the Mitsubishi bombing and Asama Sanso...

"Sect vs non-sect" was widely used.

For 30 years "sect" all but exclusively meant recognized New Left factions.

After 3/20/1995, "セクト" (sect) was used alongside the newer loanword "カルト" (cult).

And what we *do* know about Eva's production is in the scope of literally thousands of hours of Aum coverage.

In my personal amateur opinion, and going off of what I know, I think the word as used in the script refers to a religious sect and is intended to evoke Aum Shinrikyo.

This was 1995-1996. Aum WAS the cultural consciousness. Aum WAS "テロ" (terror). 3/20/1995 changed EVERYTHING.

And in my personal amateur opinion, going off of what I've seen of the translator himself, I can see WHY he would use "leftists."

Not just historically, but culturally. He's very "アニオタ" and has enough of that cultural immersion. He's not "ネトウヨ." More classical liberal."

He reminds me of my acquaintance Yamaguchi--the "otaku lawyer" who helps run comiket and serves on the board of the Japan Society for Cult Prevention and Recovery.

Anno and Khara are also otaku as gently caress. Real rear end OG otaku. My take don't mean poo poo. I wanna hear theirs.
So it appears to be another instance of the issues that have plagued other parts of the new translation, in that the interpretation is technically correct but may or may not be properly applying the context in which it was used.

EDIT: Some other halfway relevant tweets:
https://twitter.com/nezumi_ningen/status/1144026280494415877

Arkhams Razor fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jun 27, 2019

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!

All this hate for the original DVD release and that's what I'm still rocking.







I also have the OG EoE release, but I let my Death and Rebirth go ages ago as I watched it once and found it pointless. Are these worth a drat thing? I sorta imagine yes to someone.

Would also agree I found the new script janky, the VA's largely fine, but seemingly without the character of the original.

The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jun 27, 2019

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

bowmore posted:

yep

if this was realistic they would have to be making a profit off the evas to justify saving the world
They do complain about not having funding a few times early on. I assume they secure it through dirty tricks and politicking like the sabotage in episode 7.

ATP_Power
Jun 12, 2010

This is what fascinates me most in existence: the peculiar necessity of imagining what is, in fact, real.


The Jet Alone episode was all about NERV sabotaging the traditional MIC in Japan. When you're harnessing the powers of god, and backed by the literal Illuminati you don't have time for that BS.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

Eva's are the F-35 of the setting

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Irony Be My Shield posted:

They do complain about not having funding a few times early on. I assume they secure it through dirty tricks and politicking like the sabotage in episode 7.
I assumed a large portion of their funding came from Seele, and they had an arrangement with the government to be on the hook for any of the damages they caused.

Skypie posted:

I forgot how long it actually was and thought my stream had frozen for a second
I had the same reaction to Shinji clutching Kaworu in Unit 01's hand before crushing him. It's this tense and dramatic moment but it goes on so long I couldn't help but laugh.

Negostrike
Aug 15, 2015


You can clearly see the animation cel shaking a bit, you amateurs

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

Negrostrike posted:

You can clearly see the animation cel shaking a bit, you amateurs

I only watch evangelion on CRT monitors so I can't tell the difference between that and the screen just wiggling.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe
Finally started my rewatch and I already have questions

What do you guys make of Shinji seeing Rei in Tokyo-3 at the very beginning when it's not possible that she's actually there? Maybe some sort of spirit of Yui or Lillith "watching" over Shinji? I really don't recall any other times "ghosts" appear in the physical world but again, haven't seen this in years

e: I think it's the Kaowru death, because I recall the elevator is just short of a full minute where I think the death makes it there

Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 27, 2019

Ranzear
Jul 25, 2013

That's a good trivia question:

Which is longer, the elevator pause, or the squeeze toy pause?

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Expect My Mom posted:

Finally started my rewatch and I already have questions

What do you guys make of Shinji seeing Rei in Tokyo-3 at the very beginning when it's not possible that she's actually there? Maybe some sort of spirit of Yui or Lillith "watching" over Shinji? I really don't recall any other times "ghosts" appear in the physical world but again, haven't seen this in years

e: I think it's the Kaowru death, because I recall the elevator is just short of a full minute where I think the death makes it there

Honestly? Just artistic foreshadowing. I don't think there is a reason Rei is in that scene. I think Hideki Anno just thought it added a sense of foreboding, foreshadowed someone new, and gave the scene a more surreal experience that added to the viewer's disorientation.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
Rei's specter appears at the end of EoE too, so at the very least it's purposeful enough to bookend the entire series.

UnbearablyBlight
Nov 4, 2009

hello i am your heart how nice to meet you
I remember seeing the leftist thing and going “oh yeah makes sense that the world outside would have devolved into a fascist hellscape with small pockets of resistance at that point”.

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
The fate of our entire civilization depends on the stability and job performance of this emotionally fragile child. Let's overburden him with stressful work, repeatedly berate him for his failures and never show honest appreciation for any of his contributions. Wait, why is he so sullen and underpreforming?

drat, the whole show's about burnout isn't it?

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I forgot that Misato gives Shinji and Asuka poo poo for their test scores right after she makes them both take a week off school to practice dancing.

Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jun 27, 2019

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011

Anno added that bit with Rei so that animes after Eva would know to make their mysterious girls show up then vanish during their Ep 1.

Honestly that one bit is one of the few instances of anything happening in-series that doesn't have a satisfying diegetic answer imo. If I had to give one, I'd begrudgingly say it is a hint that the anime canon is just one of many loops, which makes more sense now that Rebuild is a thing and Anno himself says it's a story about repetition.

quote:

Eva is a story of repetition. It is a story where our protagonist faces the same situation many times over and determinedly picks himself back up again. It is a story of the will to move forward, even if only a little. It is a story of the resolve to want to be together, even though it is frightening to have contact with others and endure ambiguous loneliness. I would be most gratified if you found enjoyment in these four parts as it takes the same story and metamorphoses it into something different.

But honestly 25 years ago that interpretation made a lot less sense so I don't really like it.

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

I fell down a bit of a research hole after seeing this line and yeah, it makes a kind of sense

That being said, there is also the question of what qualifies as leftist in Japan, in the early 90s VS the English speaking world in 2019, so I'm not exactly CONVINCED the line is SUPER GOOD choice. The historical context makes the picture a bit more clear, but someone shouldn't need to read these tweets in order to digest a jotted off bit of background noise. Then of course there's also the question of whether or not the news is trustworthy considering it's all probably information controlled to hell and back by Nerv and Seele so..

Expect My Mom posted:

Finally started my rewatch and I already have questions

What do you guys make of Shinji seeing Rei in Tokyo-3 at the very beginning when it's not possible that she's actually there? Maybe some sort of spirit of Yui or Lillith "watching" over Shinji? I really don't recall any other times "ghosts" appear in the physical world but again, haven't seen this in years

e: I think it's the Kaowru death, because I recall the elevator is just short of a full minute where I think the death makes it there

I don't know how relevant it is, and people's feelings on the movies may vary, but BOY it has a different context when it happens again in Rebuild

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



The Notorious ZSB posted:

All this hate for the original DVD release and that's what I'm still rocking.

I am hella jealous of you. HELLA.

I used to have this box set, but about a decade ago I let a buddy at Gamestop (where I was working at the time) borrow it. Both of us ended up getting let go, and despite me constantly calling him to try and meet up to get it back, he would never meet up to return it to me. :argh:

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
She magically teleports herself into the descent to Terminal Dogma while Kaworu is going there, and is accompanied by a massive AT field. I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb here and say that it's not actually Rei, it's some kind of manifestation of Lilith.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
You guys got poo poo friends. Like, all of y'all keep talking about some fucker you lent your poo poo to stole it from you. Closest that ever happened to me was my friend from college lent my their Wakfu bluray and I watched a bit here and there, but never finished it. I kept offering to give it back, but he didn't have a bluray player anyway so told me to keep it. Clearly, he wanted me to finish it, but I never had the interest. And, when moved back upstate, I gave it back to him.

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

Ranzear posted:

That's a good trivia question:

Which is longer, the elevator pause, or the squeeze toy pause?

The squeeze toy one, by a few seconds, if I recall.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Rei's specter appears at the end of EoE too, so at the very least it's purposeful enough to bookend the entire series.

OnimaruXLR posted:

I don't know how relevant it is, and people's feelings on the movies may vary, but BOY it has a different context when it happens again in Rebuild
I haven't seen the Rebuilds yet or remember the shot repeating in EoE but poo poo these are good food for thought

It's def the more sensible thing to point to production reasons for why something is there, but I like the brain gymnastics of trying to work out why something that probably was just foreshadowing with no payoff thought off yet would happen anyway

Weird BIAS
Jul 5, 2007

so... guess that's it, huh? just... don't say i didn't warn you.
Hmm I wonder. *looks at an eva wiki* "The room with the Rei's in it references Quantum Mechanics, specifically Top Bottom and Strangeness of Quarks."



o k

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

SHISHKABOB posted:

She magically teleports herself into the descent to Terminal Dogma while Kaworu is going there, and is accompanied by a massive AT field. I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb here and say that it's not actually Rei, it's some kind of manifestation of Lilith.

gonna go one further and say they're one and the same

there's only one Rei, and in the final sense she is Lilith. there's only one soul between all of them. Rei's dummy plug works with any Eva unit because she's basically child and mother all in one.

the tragedy of Rei's arc is they take a sweet if awkward girl and basically shatter her personality (and the connections she defines herself by) until all that's left is a few fragments half-covering an elder god

who then still lets herself be killed for humanity's sake

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

The Notorious ZSB posted:

All this hate for the original DVD release and that's what I'm still rocking.







I also have the OG EoE release, but I let my Death and Rebirth go ages ago as I watched it once and found it pointless. Are these worth a drat thing? I sorta imagine yes to someone.

Would also agree I found the new script janky, the VA's largely fine, but seemingly without the character of the original.
hey I got that too

except mine looks like this

bowmore fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jun 27, 2019

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Vandar posted:

I am hella jealous of you. HELLA.

I used to have this box set, but about a decade ago I let a buddy at Gamestop (where I was working at the time) borrow it. Both of us ended up getting let go, and despite me constantly calling him to try and meet up to get it back, he would never meet up to return it to me. :argh:
How many people have had their poo poo "borrowed" by inconsiderate assholes in this thread? 4? 5? this is getting ridiculous.

Console Role Player
Sep 15, 2007

Snooch to the Gooch
Since Rei is associated with Anno's obsession with quantum physics, the "bookend" Reis that conveniently pop in and out of existence may be references to virtual particles.

e: I've also read interpretations that Rei's ghastly appearances may suggest that the entire show is Shinji experiencing Instrumentality, not just episodes 25 & 26. This might also explain Shinji's obsession with tracks 25 & 26 on his SDAT player.

Console Role Player fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jun 27, 2019

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

The Notorious ZSB posted:

All this hate for the original DVD release and that's what I'm still rocking.







I also have the OG EoE release, but I let my Death and Rebirth go ages ago as I watched it once and found it pointless. Are these worth a drat thing? I sorta imagine yes to someone.

Would also agree I found the new script janky, the VA's largely fine, but seemingly without the character of the original.

woo, Perfect Collection buddies :hf:

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008

Covok posted:

You guys got poo poo friends. Like, all of y'all keep talking about some fucker you lent your poo poo to stole it from you. Closest that ever happened to me was my friend from college lent my their Wakfu bluray and I watched a bit here and there, but never finished it. I kept offering to give it back, but he didn't have a bluray player anyway so told me to keep it. Clearly, he wanted me to finish it, but I never had the interest. And, when moved back upstate, I gave it back to him.

lmao for loving real. Jesus

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

gonna go one further and say they're one and the same

there's only one Rei, and in the final sense she is Lilith. there's only one soul between all of them. Rei's dummy plug works with any Eva unit because she's basically child and mother all in one.

the tragedy of Rei's arc is they take a sweet if awkward girl and basically shatter her personality (and the connections she defines herself by) until all that's left is a few fragments half-covering an elder god

who then still lets herself be killed for humanity's sake

Yeah I think you're right. That's why she "talks to herself" in that one episode (is it the recap episode?).

Zeruel
Mar 27, 2010

Alert: bad post spotted.

SHISHKABOB posted:

Yeah I think you're right. That's why she "talks to herself" in that one episode (is it the recap episode?).

Is that the "Heavy are the mountains" poetry episode, or the Arael double helix angel episode?

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

SHISHKABOB posted:

Yeah I think you're right. That's why she "talks to herself" in that one episode (is it the recap episode?).

It's been a while but I know Rei muses about having an "other self" after one of the synchronization tests.

Also, she has the same memories after the fight with Zeruel, but simply no longer feels any emotional connection to them.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

Zeruel posted:

Is that the "Heavy are the mountains" poetry episode, or the Arael double helix angel episode?

I think in the double helix angel one where it "merges" with her, she "communicates" with the Angel but it is represented as a copy/image of herself.

Xander B Coolridge
Sep 2, 2011
I'm one of the inconsiderate assholes who never returned something.

In high school my (then) friend loaned me a first edition print of I Robot that belonged to his dad. That was in 2004. I held on to it and eventually never saw that friend again after college in 2008 or so.

But he's also a staunch white republican who used to complain about "welfare queens" and liberals, and used his first opportunity to vote to vote against a gay marriage law. He boasted about how his dad would be proud of him.

I don't feel bad

Skypie
Sep 28, 2008
Now yall got me wondering if my Eva box set is still on the bookshelf in my old room at my mom's house or if it was one of the things I sold at a garage sale years ago.

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Zeruel
Mar 27, 2010

Alert: bad post spotted.

SHISHKABOB posted:

I think in the double helix angel one where it "merges" with her, she "communicates" with the Angel but it is represented as a copy/image of herself.

Loneliness :smith:

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