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Eva-02 is descended from Adam like the angels are, right? It makes sense to me that it would have some ability to choose its own form like angels can, and that they might've found a way to work with this in the years following Rebuild 2.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:31
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Eva-02 is descended from Adam like the angels are, right? It makes sense to me that it would have some ability to choose its own form like angels can, and that they might've found a way to work with this in the years following Rebuild 2. Yup, all Evas were born from Adam except Unit 01. In fact, since 01's berserker mode makes it look more human (particularly in the TV Zeruel fight), it does make an odd sort of sense for the other Evas to become less human when going loco.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:39
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Darth Walrus posted:Yup, all Evas were born from Adam except Unit 01. In fact, since 01's berserker mode makes it look more human (particularly in the TV Zeruel fight), it does make an odd sort of sense for the other Evas to become less human when going loco. what's the episode that establishes this not doubting you it's just been years since my last rewatch and i'd like to refresh my memory
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Jul 9, 2019 23:41
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I agree with the cat thing but honestly it’s one of the smaller issues with 3.0.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:41
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:what's the episode that establishes this I think the info is scattered across 21, 23, and EOE. Apparently there are still frames in 23 of EVA-01 being made from Lilith's severed lower half.
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Jul 9, 2019 23:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:what's the episode that establishes this It's been mentioned, but also I believe SEELE in the old EoE dub referred to Unit 01 as "Lilith's only true offspring."
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Jul 9, 2019 23:58
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Yeah. It makes sense that they'd have different capabilities but it isn't explored much in the show. I also assume this is why Kaworu can effortlessly control Unit-02 but not 01.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:01
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So is the crucified thing with 7 eyes in the basement Lilith or Adam? Sorry if this should have been clear.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:26
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Lillith, Adam is the tiny embryo thing that Kaji brings Gendo that Gendo puts in his hand
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Jul 10, 2019 00:27
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Yeah. Nerv's deliberate confusion about the issue means that Kaworu goes down into Terminal Dogma to find Adam before realizing his mistake.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:34
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The Evangelions in the Rebuild films might not be anything like their counterparts in the original series. There's the existence of the things like Adams and the fact that Unit 01 doesn't, say, move to protect Shinji in the first film.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:51
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:The Evangelions in the Rebuild films might not be anything like their counterparts in the original series. There's the existence of the things like Adams and the fact that Unit 01 doesn't, say, move to protect Shinji in the first film. Or it could just be really lovely writing to sell figurines. I'm going to go with occam's razor on this one. Soul Reaver fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 01:04
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Soul Reaver posted:Or it could just be really lovely writing to sell figurines. I'm like 95% sure that they made more money selling the movies than they did selling figurines. Would be honestly surprised if it they were close.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:05
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SHISHKABOB posted:I'm like 95% sure that they made more money selling the movies than they did selling figurines. Would be honestly surprised if it they were close. This is slightly unfair because it looks at the whole franchise but according to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises) Anime box office – $198.5 million Home entertainment – $848.5 million Merchandise sales – $2.46 billion So you're probably wrong.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:10
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I don’t think creating things for merchandise purposes is a thing anymore as companies figured out people will buy merch attached to a franchise whether it ties in directly or not
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Jul 10, 2019 01:12
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don’t think creating things for merchandise purposes is a thing anymore as companies figured out people will buy merch attached to a franchise whether it ties in directly or not Even if it wasn't specifically to sell figurines, I stand by the "lovely writing" being the occam's razor conclusion. It's more likely than the convoluted theories (which are only extremely tenuously backed up by anything in the show, and contradicted by plenty) used to explain it otherwise.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:16
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well point out the contradictions in a discussion them then rather than just going "Actually, no"
Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 01:20
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imagine making a post that relies on all kinds of assumptions about how Evangelions work on a scientific basis and then citing Occam's Razor to support your reading lol
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Jul 10, 2019 01:22
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Soul Reaver posted:Even if it wasn't specifically to sell figurines, I stand by the "lovely writing" being the occam's razor conclusion. It's more likely than the convoluted theories (which are only extremely tenuously backed up by anything in the show, and contradicted by plenty) used to explain it otherwise. Making movies is a very complicated process with a lot of people and motivations involved. You can't just say "occam's razor, the movie is bad because they wanna sell garbage". Makes no sense. It is definitely something to consider though, as you pointed out they made a shitload of money off of merchandise.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:23
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I mean that is generally not true, if an executive wants something he is gonna get it unless it’s a small production
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Jul 10, 2019 01:26
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Is there actually that much Beast Mode merch?
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Jul 10, 2019 01:29
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Expect My Mom posted:well point out the contradictions in a discussion them then rather than just going "Actually, no" I already have. There is nothing anywhere in the series or previous films that would explain an Evangelion - Adam based or otherwise - completely changing physical chape into that of a cat, including a tail. There is nothing anywhere in the series or previous films that would explain how the Evangelion's armour is now able to morph shape rather than tear or break. The only explanations offered has been "well, they're made from Adam and we haven't explicitly been told they CAN'T change shape, and maybe something happened during the time skip that we didn't see, so now they can?" which sounds more like an excuse than an explanation. Imagine if in the Lord of the Rings movies, Frodo is confronted by Shelob, so he annihilates her with his eye beams. Sure, maybe hobbits actually have eye beams whose power only manifests when a giant spider threatens them, which has never been alluded to before and hasn't had any significance until now. After all, it's a world full of magic, and dragons, and wizards and whatnot, who are we to say that hobbits can't do that? Doesn't mean it wouldn't be really lovely writing though. Darth Walrus posted:Is there actually that much Beast Mode merch? I actually regret including the "to sell figurines" lines because that wasn't really what I wanted to zero in on. I included it as a possible explanation for the lovely writing, but in all honesty I don't know if it really is the one reason why. Pretend I didn't include that and just said it was lovely writing. Soul Reaver fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 01:34
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Evangelions are half-angels, though, and Beast Mode is well within the angelic powerset and aesthetic - Code 666 makes EVA-02 look suspiciously like a more humanoid version of Gaghiel. To use your LOTR analogy, it's like if we'd had repeated run-ins with a race closely related to hobbits who can and do use eye-beams before the Shelob incident happened, and if we'd been shown that hobbits had a few of their abilities beforehand (but not the eye-beams).
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Jul 10, 2019 01:41
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Evangelion isn't the same kind of thing as Lord of the rings... Do you feel this way about when Godzilla in Shin Godzilla opens up with the ridiculous number of lasers popping out of his spines on his back? To me it's similar. Maybe the execution of Unit-02 turning into a cat monster was a little silly, but I don't think there's anything inherently *wrong* about it.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:45
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Those points do all prove that it's a new thing in the series, but not that it's somehow inconsistent with established lore. Personally I thought it was a natural progression of the "Beast Mode" that we saw in the previous film, given another 14 years of developing both the EVA control system and the armour/restraint casing around it.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 01:46
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Got ships made of carcasses that fly in the loving sky in the post-post-apocalypse but put a tail on a robot/clone of an alien giant because it'd look cool and that's no good.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:55
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Darth Walrus posted:Evangelions are half-angels, though, and Beast Mode is well within the angelic powerset and aesthetic - Code 666 makes EVA-02 look suspiciously like a more humanoid version of Gaghiel. To use your LOTR analogy, it's like if we'd had repeated run-ins with a race closely related to hobbits who can and do use eye-beams before the Shelob incident happened, and if we'd been shown that hobbits had a few of their abilities beforehand (but not the eye-beams). I don't think 'cat form' is very angel-like for a start (even the most mundane looking ones looked pretty drat weird) - it actually is a very terrestrial form. Secondly, an Angels' own powers tend to feel internally consistent - they usually demonstrate a set of powers and stick by them (though since they get killed of pretty quickly most of the time we can only go by what we see) Here's the Angel the other Evas were made from (and this is pretty much all we know about it too):  If it started to glow, or grow wings, or look like a human embryo, yes, that would be passable. Nothing I've seen of Adam screams "cat" to me. The fact is that the cat beast mode looks ridiculous, has no precedent, and worst of all has (to date) not added anything to our understanding of the plot or characters of the show. For one moment, assume that the explanation for many of the issues people have with Evangelion 3.0 is really just "lovely writing" and see if you have to do the same amount of mental gymnastics to fit that one to what you observe.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:57
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Weird BIAS posted:Got ships made of carcasses that fly in the loving sky in the post-post-apocalypse but put a tail on a robot/clone of an alien giant because it'd look cool and that's no good. Yeah, that was dumb too. Remember how the Evangelion series, for all its craziness, at least started by building a sense of realism around the costs and logistics that would be required to run robots like that? All gone in Rebuild 3.0.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:58
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I think the more interesting departure from the status quo in that scene (compared to Evangelions changing shape, something we've seen them do again and again ever since the original series, let alone the other Rebuild movies) is that Asuka is willing to abandon Unit-02 and have it self-destruct with about as much emotion as someone throwing away their favorite shirt because it has a hole in it.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:02
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^^^I don't think the rebuild movies even mentioned that it was her mom inside of unit 2 which is really weird now that I think about it. Soul Reaver posted:Yeah, that was dumb too. Remember how the Evangelion series, for all its craziness, at least started by building a sense of realism around the costs and logistics that would be required to run robots like that? Are you implying that you need more than two old men and a couple psychic teenagers to create and maintain a large team of skyscraper-sized robot monstrosities? You sound very foolish right now. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 02:05
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:The Evangelions in the Rebuild films might not be anything like their counterparts in the original series. There's the existence of the things like Adams and the fact that Unit 01 doesn't, say, move to protect Shinji in the first film. This. They are completely new characters. The changes are deliberate.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:06
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To be honest I think beast mode is just an excuse for more baddass action scenes which seems like what the rebuilds love focusing on
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Jul 10, 2019 02:07
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Soul Reaver posted:I already have. im gonna stop you right there chief. It was never armor, its just bindings holding the eva back.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:09
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I think the more interesting departure from the status quo in that scene (compared to Evangelions changing shape, something we've seen them do again and again ever since the original series, let alone the other Rebuild movies) is that Asuka is willing to abandon Unit-02 and have it self-destruct with about as much emotion as someone throwing away their favorite shirt because it has a hole in it. That is indeed interesting, as it implies as a character she's moved beyond the hangups she had as a 14 year old and has matured in the interim. She no longer judges her value based on piloting an Evangelion. Can you give me the examples of Evangelions changing shape (and what the cause was of it)? I don't remember any such changes outside of Until 01 short of when it's caused by an Angel or Instrumentality, but it's been a long time since I watched the whole series.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:09
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Soul Reaver posted:Or it could just be really lovely writing to sell figurines. Why? Basically everything we've seen about the Evangelions in the Rebuilds is that they are different creations. The whole background linked to them is different in major ways. Let's see, off the top of my head...
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 02:09
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I mean you can not buy into beast mode as a concept but if you think using all the power in japan to snipe a geometric object with a robot wasn't done because of the spectacle of how it looks like beast mode and written around later I don't know what to tell you.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:09
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At the very least Asuka having Beast Mode does serve as a contrast to the more graceful fighting style she tried to embrace in 2.0. That is in fact some characterization.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:10
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The Asuka in NGE/EoE and Rebuild are literally two different characters btw: Asuka Langley Soryu Asuka Langley Shikinami quoting from wikipedia here, bolding my own: quote:In the four-film re-imagining of the TV series, Asuka makes her first appearance in the second film, Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance. Several changes have been made to her character, such as her family name being changed from Sōryū (惣流) to Shikinami (式波),[18] continuing the Japanese maritime vessel naming convention, and rather than her having a college degree, she holds the rank of captain in the European air force, as a fighter pilot.[19] She also doesn't share Soryu's pediophobia, and no longer has the same infatuation with Kaji, choosing to ignore an invitation to go on a trip with him until Misato forced her to go. Shikinami is also more reserved than Sohryu, and doesn't form a friendship with Hikari. The REAL Goobusters fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 02:10
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Paracelsus posted:Cursed post.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:18
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Wait who's this Bottle fella?
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Jul 10, 2019 02:19
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