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I think Asuka was in the tub because Misato or Shinji were still using the apartment bathroom
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Jul 18, 2019 13:19
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saying that asuka was the first mean girl to call the boy she liked an idiot is lum erasure
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Jul 18, 2019 13:35
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Yeah Asuka isn't even close to being the first tsundere, she's not even the first red-headed tsundere in a thing Anno worked on. Lum is pretty much the de facto first one, or at least the first one that mattered. There were characters similar to her before Eva, but Rei was such a huge deal that having weird hair, being super pale and emotionless became its own style and there are basically infinite imitators afterwards.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:11
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I think both Asuka and Rei end up being developed as characters in their own right, whether you recognize the trope or not doesn't really matter.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:44
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I think both Asuka and Rei end up being developed as characters in their own right, whether you recognize the trope or not doesn't really matter. We were talking more about their place in anime history than how they were used in the show.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:47
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A common belief is that Asuka is strongly based around Kushana from Nausicaa, which Anno worked on and was denied making a series about from Miyazaki. They even have similar backstories with their mothers and dolls though that of course was a manga plotline that came out a fair amount after the movie IIRC.
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Jul 18, 2019 15:58
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Just finished episode 9. That was quite the tonal whiplash. At least it was easier to make sure that I wasn't missing anything important?
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Jul 18, 2019 16:34
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Everyone walked away with "Rei is emotionless" but that ignored the righteous slap and joy she expresses when Shinji demeans Gendo/saves her from the plug. She's more detached or disinterested save for the obvious later on in the series. Which, yeah, she's a homeschooled kid with hardly any social interaction with peers. Duh FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 16:59
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Yeah, the *archetype* is emotionless but Rei herself totally has subtle (and not so subtle) emotions and most people just missed it. She's just reserved and probably kind of confused having half an alien soul and all.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:06
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Nate RFB posted:A common belief is that Asuka is strongly based around Kushana from Nausicaa, which Anno worked on and was denied making a series about from Miyazaki. They even have similar backstories with their mothers and dolls though that of course was a manga plotline that came out a fair amount after the movie IIRC.  Also the great sensei チャールズ・M・シュルツ
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Jul 18, 2019 17:24
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FilthyImp posted:Everyone walked away with "Rei is emotionless" but that ignored the righteous slap and joy she expresses when Shinji demeans Gendo/saves her from the plug. She's more detached or disinterested save for the obvious later on in the series. rei has a hard time expressing emotions, but she absolutely feels them honestly one of the things I remember liking most about the rebuild films (I've only seen the first two) is that rei had a few more opportunities to emote, like the aquarium scene and stuff
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Jul 18, 2019 17:30
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the nausicaa manga loving rules btw, and has a whole lot more going on in it than the movie if you've only seen that it's also much more violent than the film, which is curious because hayao is the person who made it. it makes me wonder if the stuff he animates would be more violent if it weren't for the studio or for making films aimed at a wide audience.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:30
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I mean, Princess Mononoke is pretty loving brutal.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:47
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IronicDongz posted:the nausicaa manga loving rules btw, and has a whole lot more going on in it than the movie if you've only seen that considering that as a person he's a complete piece of poo poo, probably
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Jul 18, 2019 17:53
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Mononoke Hime can indeed get brutal but it also has an undeniable beauty even amidst all the brutality. Also, if you like stuff in different media that was heavily influenced by the works of Studio Ghibli (and Mononoke Hime in particular), check out Kodama by Alcest: probably one of my favorite albums from 2016 and a record so strong, it's like you're experiencing the movie itself via an auditive journey.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:55
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I mean, Princess Mononoke is pretty loving brutal. Nausicaa manga has stuff like... in the scene that's also in the movie where Asbel is shooting down the Torumekian ships, in the manga there's a ton of people, including women and children, falling out of the ships to avoid burning to death. And then because she's pulling the barge and can't veer too far or it'll snap, Nausicaa can't get out of the way so she just flies through a bunch of falling people and they splatter all over the front of her gunship.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:18
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There's also a lot of body/cosmic horror with the mold.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:21
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Yinlock posted:considering that as a person he's a complete piece of poo poo, probably ?????????????????????????????????????
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Jul 18, 2019 18:33
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Million Ghosts posted:?????????????????????????????????????
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Jul 18, 2019 18:45
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Misato and Ritsuko?
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Jul 18, 2019 18:48
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IronicDongz posted:the guy did walk out of his own son's movie because he openly hated it so much Earthsea is horrific but lol if that's true that kicks rear end, it's just Miyazaki pulling a big Gendo move
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Jul 18, 2019 18:52
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https://twitter.com/TristanACooper/status/1102267619594383360
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Jul 18, 2019 18:53
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"Gendo is actually Miyazaki" is the second best hot Eva take, right after the Ultraman homage one
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Jul 18, 2019 19:11
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Shadow225 posted:I finished episode 8 tonight [...] I don't quite understand why kids are forced to be in the mechs, nor do I exactly understand what angels are and why they're attacking. As with a lot of things in the series, this is never explained very well at all - even at the end. There's a handful of shots supplemented by patchy exposition, so there's apparently been a lot of confusion over the years. Making things worse, there are numerous 'special editions' and 'directors cuts' intended to bring the series more in line with the movie. If you don't mind being spoiled: The backstory of the 'Angels' is that, in the late 1990s, scientists discovered some kind of amorphous glowing Thing buried in the antarctic. The Thing was literally made out of light - leading many to conclude that it was literally God. The Thing isn't ever shown in the TV series, as originally aired. (Implicitly it's some unrepresentable Lovecraftian deal). Some people refer to it as "Adam", but that's slightly inaccurate. After years of study, the scientists evidently sent a test subject into the light, ostensibly to see how it would react to human DNA. In actuality, this was an attempt by the religious faction to re-enter the garden of Eden, to become one with God. Hence, the text-subject's codename: Adam. The test subject merged with the light and transformed into a glowing giant, then mysteriously vanished. The Angels that appear later are all aspects or fragments of Adam. They're technically human, but unconstrained by physical laws. They're best understood as ghosts of the test subject, driven mad by the experiment. As for what they want, that's where things get really obscure.
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Jul 18, 2019 19:22
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Ignore SMG, the actual answers to both of those questions are hinted at towards the end of the series.
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Jul 18, 2019 19:26
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you should be able to start brainstorming some stuff considering "huh the second impact was fifteen years ago....and only fourteen year olds can pilot evas......"
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Jul 18, 2019 19:31
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Expect My Mom posted:you should be able to start brainstorming some stuff considering "huh the second impact was fifteen years ago....and only fourteen year olds can pilot evas......" is the pilot's age/being born after 2I actually important? I just figured it had more to do with their parents all being about the same age and getting involved with nerv back in the day (idk if that needs a spoiler but w/e)
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Jul 18, 2019 19:41
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FilthyImp posted:Everyone walked away with "Rei is emotionless" but that ignored the righteous slap and joy she expresses when Shinji demeans Gendo/saves her from the plug. She's more detached or disinterested save for the obvious later on in the series. Yeah, Rei the character's biggest scenes are all her having emotions and proving that she isn't an emotionless doll. But hey, when you're just imitating a thing what it actually is becomes less important I guess.
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Jul 18, 2019 19:45
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It fits the theme of the adults of Eva pushing the responsibility of fixing a problem that they created onto the next generation who were wholly not responsible.
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Jul 18, 2019 19:46
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The latest episode of the Waypoint podcast is out. It's only two hours this time.
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Jul 18, 2019 19:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0GpeXAsIKY
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Jul 18, 2019 19:55
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Million Ghosts posted:????????????????????????????????????? he is by all accounts a complete nightmare to work under, is so cynical that human suffering amuses him, and is insanely emotionally abusive towards his son Million Ghosts posted:Earthsea is horrific but lol if that's true that kicks rear end, it's just Miyazaki pulling a big Gendo move miyazaki's family life is summed up entirely as crushing his son's dreams whenever possible he genuinely loathes his son, who more-or-less dedicated half his life to trying to figure out why Yinlock fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 20:02
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Spermando posted:The latest episode of the Waypoint podcast is out. It's only two hours this time. Well, they were only covering two episodes. It probably would have been a lot longer if it wasn't for technical difficulties.
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Jul 18, 2019 20:05
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Vinylshadow posted:Misato and Ritsuko? I think that might be a better fit than Asuka and Rei.
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Jul 18, 2019 20:06
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Million Ghosts posted:Earthsea is horrific but lol if that's true that kicks rear end, it's just Miyazaki pulling a big Gendo move Earthsea is a fine, if unremarkable film. It's only remembered as terrible because it had the temerity to be "merely adequate" while having the Ghibli name.
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Jul 18, 2019 21:07
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Schwarzwald posted:Earthsea is a fine, if unremarkable film. It's only remembered as terrible because it had the temerity to be "merely adequate" while having the Ghibli name. Also being "merely adequate" while having the Earthsea name.
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Jul 18, 2019 21:23
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Shadow225 posted:I appreciate Shinji being a reluctant hero to highlight the trauma of forcing a teenager to fight. I don't quite understand why kids are forced to be in the mechs, nor do I exactly understand what angels are and why they're attacking. You will find out everything other than what the angels truly are. You get so much from the show but there's a lot that was left out and put in bizarre places like the playstation games. Watch the series and then just look at evageeks which will have all the omitted details. In general just consider them unknowable beings made of unknowable matter with unknowable powers.
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Jul 18, 2019 22:00
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Yinlock posted:considering that as a person he's a complete piece of poo poo, probably Wait, can you elaborate? I'm not the biggest fan of Miyazaki's visual style and have minor quibbles with exactly how he presents his (otherwise agreeable) anti-war and environmentalist stories, but I've never heard anything about him that would paint him in a worse light than "old and cranky", at most. e: oh woops, missed some of your later posts Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 22:03
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You know people keep saying that Eva sexualizes its child characters but I really don't see it. They're drawn like skinny 14 year olds with none of the cheesecake unrealistic cleavage and curves that anime usually gives women, and whenever they are in a situation or framing that *could* be interpreted as sexual it's always to show Shinji's discomfort with sexuality (and by extension intimacy), or occasionally in the case of Asuka with kaji to show how deeply disturbed Asuka is in her desire to receive positive attention In every instance, it feels to me like you're intended to be uncomfortable with the framing of the characters rather than titilated. The characters are sexual but not sexualized. And when the episode previews promise fan service, I read it as the show poking fun at viewers for wanting that out of a cartoon about traumatized kids. I'm saying this all from the pov of a lesbian woman tho so maybe straight dudes just view this poo poo differently?
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Jul 18, 2019 22:38
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also with respect to the "actual" backstory of Evangelion and how the various unknowable aspects line up, it's important to remember that this was in flux not just with respect to the TV series vs. EoE, but literally the entire time the show was airing. Evangelion was basically improvised, per statements by the creative staff and crew. the important thing about the angels isn't whether they're aliens or ghosts or literal angels, but that they're these terrifying, inimical to human life, desperate avatars of loneliness. one of the first things you learn about them (although the significance isn't explained until later) is that they have a sense of self so profound and self-contained that it creates an impenetrable physical barrier between them and the world. this is in contrast to the Rei / Yui / Lilith trinity, with Rei in particular having a notably weak sense of self which she bolsters by valuing her connection to other people. Lilith is an inanimate giant constantly giving birth to a multiplicity of tiny people, and Yui is an invisible, nebulous presence who, barring episode 21 and EoE, can only be seen or understood by reference to other people's recollections of (or angry outbursts at) her. it's important to keep in mind, though, that the real conflict of the series isn't so much lonely angels vs. interconnected mother as it is the human organizations and ideologies driving us to one or the other. SEELE's exact agenda is murky but their characterization is enough: they're a loose, fractious alliance of narcissists. they want to be like the angels because the cost means nothing to them, or at least that's what they think. Gendo is the liminal figure who they depend on because he's becoming more like them (cold, manipulative, self-absorbed) but distrust and hate to rely on because he's not quite as far gone as they are; he misses his wife and has to build pretty elaborate, self-serving justifications for how neglectful he is of his son, and he still has Fuyutsuki whispering in his ear. (Note again how all their private conversations are about Fuyutsuki gently but firmly trying to remind Gendo that humanity is worth saving.) regardless of exactly how they fit into literal in-narrative continuity, both the TV ending and EoE represent the triumph of interconnectedness over solipsism/narcissism. EoE obviously portrays the victory as a bit more pyrrhic and bittersweet, but it does this not to contradict the TV ending but to elaborate on what it means -- the TV ending is Shinji's personal breakthrough, while EoE depicts what it costs Rei / Yui / Lilith as the all-loving and all-giving mother (it's not subtle about this, she/they basically commit suicide to varying degrees so the rest of the world can live) and, for that matter, what it costs Asuka as a young woman who wasn't willing to put herself second to everyone else
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Jul 18, 2019 22:38
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