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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Wunder is Pen Pen. 
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Jul 19, 2019 16:37
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| # ? May 20, 2024 18:11 |
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Nah pen pen is just chillin in some random room in the wunder
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Jul 19, 2019 17:13
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If they turned the video screens of the SEELE monoliths on all you would see would be Pen Pen.
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Jul 19, 2019 17:27
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Different species of penguin have different lifespans and Pen Pen isn't a standard penguin so he could easily still be alive. Gimme a Pen Pen rescue movie.
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Jul 19, 2019 17:29
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With this renewed vigor in Eva with the Netflix release and the Rebuild movies, I am legitimately pondering if I should re-read the Eva-R fanfic out of morbid curiosity, or just let it remain a nostalgic memory of my 14 year old self.
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Jul 19, 2019 18:20
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Stupid "Ann-Wheel"! *elsewhere, rei* Spheres... twirling, passing... a cosmic dance. What am I? Who have I been?
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Jul 19, 2019 18:37
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MechaX posted:With this renewed vigor in Eva with the Netflix release and the Rebuild movies, I am legitimately pondering if I should re-read the Eva-R fanfic out of morbid curiosity, or just let it remain a nostalgic memory of my 14 year old self. If you feel that you might be suicidal, we urge you to contact the Suicide Hotline at 800-273-8255 or navigate to http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ for a live chat and additional resources.
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Jul 19, 2019 19:53
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dare I ask what eva-r is?
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Jul 19, 2019 20:27
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noether posted:dare I ask what eva-r is? Fanfiction that tried really hard to be more than that
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Jul 19, 2019 20:32
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So basically this thread.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:15
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I looked it up and the website design makes me wish this was fanfiction.net.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:17
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https://myanimelist.net/character/29663/Eva-R what the gently caress what the gently caress
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Jul 19, 2019 21:32
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The United States posted:https://myanimelist.net/character/29663/Eva-R Seikon no Qwaser is... something, yes.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:33
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The United States posted:https://myanimelist.net/character/29663/Eva-R the google curse strikes another poor soul
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Jul 19, 2019 22:53
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Nate RFB posted:New Waypoint episode is kind of a bummer, they seem to be further and further missing the mark on some of the characters and themes and at least Patrick has completely checked out and only wants a "lore dump" to explain everything, which lol. I love Waypoint, and totally support their mission and what they’re trying to do, but I wish they were just one or two notches less woke. Still extremely woke though! Their talk about Kaji is kind of emblematic of the problem. The fact of Kaji is that you are not supposed to think he is as bad as the Waypoint gang do because Eva was a show made largely by fairly skeevy men in Japan in the mid-90s who fundamentally did not think that the way Kaji treats women was that bad, certainly not as bad Waypoint do (and anyone else should, to be clear) now. It’s very bad that they thought that, but it was a long time ago and there’s nothing we can do about what these people thought then. So, obviously, we should highlight these problems and not ignore or attempt to defend them, but functionally, if you’re going to consume art made from that cultural scene and time, you ultimately just have to get over it. And they sort of can’t. Every time something questionable happens they get all quiet, and Austin will let out a heavy sigh and say something like “yeah.... it’s not great...” in this depressing way. And it seems to just be colouring their whole view of the series, which is pretty disappointing. Like, they were talking about the whole scene with Naoko and young Rei, and sure, to put it mildly, she is not a character particularly well treated by the show. But then the Waypointers wring their hands over and agonise over her when she is frankly a very minor part of the show. Anyway, I’m rambling, but like you I was really looking forward to Waypoint’s coverage of Eva, and it’s a bit disappointing to see them just get tangled in the weeds like this.
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Jul 20, 2019 01:50
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Kaji is like, a triple spy so he has to be three times as skeevy as James Bond
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Jul 20, 2019 02:23
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Comrade Fakename posted:So, obviously, we should highlight these problems and not ignore or attempt to defend them, but *does that*
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Jul 20, 2019 02:39
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I think as long as you consider it as a part of your whole understanding and "analysis" of the show, then it's fine to be "woke" about it. What's not fine is when you take these "woke" ideas and turn them into checklists and give grades and poo poo.
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Jul 20, 2019 02:43
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You know, sure, I'll concede the point. I agree with nearly all of this (the Angels' forms being products of human psychology, the parallel between them and the human characters, and SEELE's goal being, essentially, to become like the angels), and just didn't really feel as though a diegetically human origin for them was necessary for these things to be true, but it strengthens the reading if that's what they are. They are "human" in the sense they are the both the culmination/highest from of life, albeit from a different source. Of course said two sources (Adam and Lilith) are the same species/manner of being anyway. So the Angels are to humans as a whole, as you are to another human. Which of course ties it all back around to the central themes of loneliness/connections/etc.
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Jul 20, 2019 02:45
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I think Eva avoids passing moral judgment on its characters for the most part, it's more about understanding their mindsets. It seems very tedious to judge fiction purely on whether you feel it promotes woke ideas.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:04
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Comrade Fakename posted:
Their point about how Naoko, in the span of a few scenes, is shown to be a fairly level-headed person that has a genial relationship with their daughter, but then goes completely bonkers at a kid making fun of her, is absolutely correct and not "agonizing" at all. The show has some tonal inconsistencies that cause friction within itself, and doubly so with the current social environment in regards to "groping women in the workplace". They are media critics and journos. It's their job to discuss this stuff through different lenses.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:06
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Comrade Fakename posted:Like, they were talking about the whole scene with Naoko and young Rei, and sure, to put it mildly, she is not a character particularly well treated by the show. But then the Waypointers wring their hands over and agonise over her when she is frankly a very minor part of the show. All the stuff they have said wrt kaji is true and I don't know what you want them to do besides not actually having a discussion about that stuff. they're making a podcast about the show and it's part of the show, they're gonna talk about it.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:08
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Naoko is probably my least favorite character in Eva and the tiny bit of time they allot for her ending is the main reason for that, but what they seem to also conveniently gloss over the strong implication that she was already a murderer of Yui and Rei I was, almost literally, her victim coming back to taunt her.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:12
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Capntastic posted:Their point about how Naoko, in the span of a few scenes, is shown to be a fairly level-headed person that has a genial relationship with their daughter, but then goes completely bonkers at a kid making fun of her, is absolutely correct and not "agonizing" at all. The show has some tonal inconsistencies that cause friction within itself, and doubly so with the current social environment in regards to "groping women in the workplace". They are media critics and journos. It's their job to discuss this stuff through different lenses.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:13
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Isn't there an obvious reason for that? Asuka's mother went insane and ultimately killed herself after a single copy of her brain was created for EVA-02. Naoko had three copies made for the magi system. Having copies made of you breaks your soul apart in Eva. Well, I think the Magi are a mechanical copy and not an actual digitized soul, like the Evas, but who can truly say?
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Jul 20, 2019 03:22
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Thinking about it now Naoko is, similar to Rei and likely even more so, often more of a plot device then a character. Pretty much everything she does happens to set up or elaborate on Ritsuko's arc more then present an interesting character in her own right. Even murdering Rei is more foreshadowing Ritsuko destroying the dummy plug system then it is really saying much about Naoko as a character or even doing much thematically. She's a rather throw-away character as far as the script is concerned, being essentially a footnote in an episode which is also about Kaji dieing and also about the founding of Nerv on top of other stuff, which is hardly a great thing.Irony Be My Shield posted:Isn't there an obvious reason for that? Asuka's mother went insane and ultimately killed herself after a single copy of her brain was created for EVA-02. Naoko had three copies made for the magi system. Having copies made of you breaks your soul apart in Eva.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:23
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Rei isn't "more plot device than character," the hell are you talking about? Anyways worrying about whether the show's portrayal of Naoko "earns" making her murderously rage out over relatively minor taunting is completely backwards. We're shown this happening, it's on us to work out what it means. It's not inconsistent with anything else we know about Naoko because frankly we don't know much else about her (except Ritsuko's secondhand recollection that she was impossible to get along with as a woman even if she respected her as a scientist.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 03:24
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Capntastic posted:Well, I think the Magi are a mechanical copy and not an actual digitized soul, like the Evas, but who can truly say?
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Jul 20, 2019 03:25
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Am I remembering it wrong or isnt there actual meat brains inside the MAGI computer that you see in the scene where ritsuko is working on it?
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Jul 20, 2019 03:27
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Am I remembering it wrong or isnt there actual meat brains inside the MAGI computer that you see in the scene where ritsuko is working on it? there totally are 
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Jul 20, 2019 03:28
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You know they cut one of the Magi system cpu casings and it's giant brains in there
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Jul 20, 2019 03:30
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lets hang out posted:Congrats Jet Alone you made it This is hilarious actually....the most underappreciated episode of the series gets into the biggest Eva film.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:30
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Another thing that was frustrating is that they touched upon the differences between Naoko and Yui, in that the latter is a "complete person" who does not feel the need separate out her professional/personal lives and the former is one who seemingly found solace in intentionally delineating herself into specific/binary bins. And that Yui is ultimately an extremely unsettling person who despite being so much more self-ware and "superior" to those around her still succumbed in a manner of speaking to the machinations of SEELE/Gendo. To me in made sense, in as twisted a way as it could be and as little time the episode seemingly allowed for it, that Naoko would have friction with someone like Yui and when coupled with the events of Yui's death and Rei I. Yui is an idealized version of what Naoko would ostensibly want to be (which almost certainly plays into her seeming desire to be with Gendo physically). Honestly it's less Rei I's murder that's  to me, it's her suicide, that's a 0->60 that feels extremely unearned. Every time I watch the series I feel like I'm missing a scene where it's implied that Gendo was the actual one that did her in and the "suicide" was a cover up but I don't think the text supports that at all.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:38
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I don't think Eva really operates on "digitized souls" anyway. To me it seems like each person only has one soul and you can't create copies of it, but the soul can move around under some conditions (possibly between similar brains?). So no matter how many "Rei shaped things" you create there can still only be one "Rei" at any given time. Or if you create a copy of Asuka's mother's brain that represents her maternal feelings towards her daughter she will lose those feelings (leaving her a broken shell of a person). After the process there's still a total of one Kyoko soul around, it's just been split up. It follows that creating three copies of Naoko's brain representing everything important to her would gently caress her up a lot.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:39
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I’m not ignoring or defending anything. It’s important to point out and recognise that these things are bad. But I don’t think one should devote half your very long podcast to them, and should try to understand that Eva is a product of its time and place and authors and you can and should enjoy it despite these things. They did a very entertaining (and incredibly thorough) deep-dive into Pride and Prejudice a while ago and they were quite capable of recognising and accepting that it was the work of a wealthy woman in Regency England who was quite progressive in some ways but very much not in plenty of others. At one point Patrick said something along the lines of “I don’t understand Kaji’s characterisation - he seems fairly cool and then he sexually assaults Misato. It makes no sense!” The truth is that the people who made Eva fundamentally did not think that type of assault was bad. It’s a very wrong opinion, and it’s very bad and sad that they held it, but it was also not a rare position among those type of people in that place and time.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:44
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MoaM posted:This is hilarious actually....the most underappreciated episode of the series gets into the biggest Eva film. man, i had to go back as soon as i read this post and watch the second half of episode 7. just so good. that eva drop gives me goosebumps every time
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Jul 20, 2019 03:44
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Comrade Fakename posted:At one point Patrick said something along the lines of “I don’t understand Kaji’s characterisation - he seems fairly cool and then he sexually assaults Misato. It makes no sense!” The truth is that the people who made Eva fundamentally did not think that type of assault was bad. It’s a very wrong opinion, and it’s very bad and sad that they held it, but it was also not a rare position among those type of people in that place and time. I don't think that Evangelion is endorsing its characters' actions to anywhere near the extent you (or apparently they) are presuming.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:45
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think Eva really operates on "digitized souls" anyway. To me it seems like each person only has one soul and you can't create copies of it, but the soul can move around under some conditions (possibly between similar brains?). So no matter how many "Rei shaped things" you create there can still only be one "Rei" at any given time. Or if you create a copy of Asuka's mother's brain that represents her maternal feelings towards her daughter she will lose those feelings (leaving her a broken shell of a person). After the process there's still a total of one Kyoko soul around, it's just been split up. It follows that creating three copies of Naoko's brain representing everything important to her would gently caress her up a lot. As an aside I always thought thought they were like, "mechanical" brains.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:46
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more to the point, they don't have to Kaji, as portrayed in Evangelion, is a creep. He's a creep that Misato is deeply emotionally entangled with (despite being angry with him for being a creep basically all the time), and ultimately he flies too close to the sun and dies, and she's devastated. This isn't a particularly unrealistic portrayal of a dysfunctional or abusive relationship, and the show is pretty clear about Kaji having a tremendous of superficial charm that in no way makes him a better person. The show also repeatedly emphasizes how destructive relationships with selfish, arrogant men are to the women in their lives, between Naoko's suicide, Ritsuko's murder, Misato's self-loathing, and all the stuff I mentioned upthread about Rei and Yui.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:50
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i don't understand people who get deeply mad about people being woke. is it just a primal reaction to your bad opinions being challenged?
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Jul 20, 2019 03:54
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