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jit bull transpile posted:See I read most of these as attempting to communicate but not quite having a handle on human physiology and hurting them instead. Like the one that really messes up Asuka stays in space to keep a safe distance and try to talk before the humans can kill it. It just really hosed up its attempt to talk. I think most of the ones in the monster of the week arc did, but I'm admittedly pretty hazy on details it's possible that arael hosed up asuka my mistake, but they went way harder on asuka than arimsael did on rei or leliel did on shinji, so it strikes me as at least somewhat malicious I think I've sniped like 3 pages or some poo poo in this thread with dumb blathering, so here's a neat wallpaper 
noether fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 03:55
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This is circular logic. so is yours *extremely moriarty voice* we could probably continue this forever, you and i
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Jul 24, 2019 03:55
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noether posted:I think most of the ones in the monster of the week arc did, but I'm admittedly pretty hazy on details for being the one who loves piloting EVA, asuka has a particularly poo poo time inside it
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Jul 24, 2019 03:57
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Yinlock posted:so is yours No, it isn't. I explained why Yui isn't a monster by reference to her supporters (Fuyutsuki, who constantly champions regular humanity), her enemies (SEELE, the apocalyptic death cult), the context of what she says (she's saying goodbye to her son who's worried about her, and in the flashback, to a mentor who's worried about her and sweet on her), and the actual results of what she accomplishes (humanity doesn't die.) Your argument is "Yui is a monster, therefore her plan must have been monstrous."
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Jul 24, 2019 03:58
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Barring the fact it's mostly described in supplementary materials, wasn't mankind doomed because of much more than normal scientific reasons? Like theres stuff that talks about the big Kabbalic soul depot is out of new souls to be born? You can't exactly solve that with better power plants.
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Jul 24, 2019 03:58
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I always interpreted Yui's statement about becoming a reminder that humanity existed more like EVA 01 would be a memento of the human race rather than some kind of tribute to her own mad genius. There's very little in her words to indicate that she's particularly happy with it. I guess it's not like she would be cackling maniacally about how she's a goddess or whatever so there's room for interpretation there. But I'm not sold on the idea, what's there to be happy about in becoming a cosmic gravestone? As for why wouldn't she just work to prevent Third Impact? It's very likely she couldn't, at least not after awakening Adam at Second Impact already set the plot in motion.
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Jul 24, 2019 03:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:She's not trying to create world peace, although she's broadly optimistic about humanity's capacity to be happy as long as we're not all dead, but what she's actually trying to stop is the seemingly-predestined end of the world via either Unit-01 or Lilith (neither of which are likely to be an issue again after the end of EoE.) I'm not invalidating your reading, but since everything being discussed here lives in imagery and subtext it's necessarily all interpretation and it's pretty silly for you to say one person or another's interpretation is factually wrong. Thematically, I see the show saying things about humans tendency to think catastrophically and to egoistically insert themselves into solutions. Your way is a valid read too but I'm less interested in establishing a literal timeline of events and more interested in exploring the implications of a secret group developing all of this biotech and computer tech and yet still having tunnel vision on the only path forward being basically an occult death ritual. That third impact "has to" happen is only a fact if you trust the dead sea scrolls as described to us (which is primarily seeles interpretation). Otoh, we see a lot of angels try to communicate and we see them almost never attack without being attacked first which is a pretty big hint that maybe, just maybe, conflict with the angels isn't an imperative but rather only a means to execute the third impact these behind the scenes people want. Imo there is a timeline where they just throw seele in moon super jail and use the Evas to make peace with the angels and live in a wonderful post scarcity world.
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Jul 24, 2019 03:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No, it isn't. Incorrect, my argument is exactly the opposite. Yui's plan is monstrous, and therefore she is a monster. Also Fuyutsuki was willing to work with loving Gendo, he has no idea about anything
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Jul 24, 2019 04:02
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jit bull transpile posted:That third impact "has to" happen is only a fact if you trust the dead sea scrolls as described to us (which is primarily seeles interpretation). Otoh, we see a lot of angels try to communicate and we see them almost never attack without being attacked first which is a pretty big hint that maybe, just maybe, conflict with the angels isn't an imperative but rather only a means to execute the third impact these behind the scenes people want. Kaworu succeeds in communicating with Shinji -- even to the point of telling him he loves him and thinks he was always meant to meet him -- and still voluntarily dies by his hand rather than some unspecified (but implicitly apocalyptic) alternative. That doesn't speak well of the possibility of co-existence between Angels and humans.
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Jul 24, 2019 04:02
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jit bull transpile posted:I'm not invalidating your reading, but since everything being discussed here lives in imagery and subtext it's necessarily all interpretation and it's pretty silly for you to say one person or another's interpretation is factually wrong. we never do actually see what happens if an angel reaches lillith without human interference it would probably be bad but there's always the chance they just take her and leave
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Jul 24, 2019 04:03
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the episode is gut wrenching but arael blasting Hallelujah when it starts melding with Asuka made me lol
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Jul 24, 2019 04:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Kaworu succeeds in communicating with Shinji -- even to the point of telling him he loves him and thinks he was always meant to meet him -- and still voluntarily dies by his hand rather than some unspecified (but implicitly apocalyptic) alternative. That doesn't speak well of the possibility of co-existence between Angels and humans. Sure but kaworu was manufactured by seele and presumably thinks their plan is the only outcome. We don't really get to know what the other angels know.
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Jul 24, 2019 04:20
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Yui basically turned herself into the Pioneer plaque in EoE and if u dont think thats the tightest poo poo then get out of my face
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Jul 24, 2019 05:11
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sorry but i don't understand how a translator can make a character say "i think i was put on this earth to meet you" and then go "hmm maybe love is too strong a word" like i'm aware of the double meaning of the thing but "I think i was put on this earth to meet you" is the most corny teenage love affair thing i've ever heard
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Jul 24, 2019 08:16
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DC Murderverse posted:sorry but i don't understand how a translator can make a character say "i think i was put on this earth to meet you" and then go "hmm maybe love is too strong a word" Someone call the JSSDF, we’ve got a leftist terrorist here
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Jul 24, 2019 08:36
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DC Murderverse posted:sorry but i don't understand how a translator can make a character say "i think i was put on this earth to meet you" and then go "hmm maybe love is too strong a word" anybody who says that kaworu and shinji were totally platonic friends is kidding themselves. like if the exact same sequence of events happened, but kaworu was a girl, nobody would even think to question it, but because it's a gay romance everyone turns into sealions supposedly khara demanded the translation be as literal as possible, and that's why it's so janky in a lot of places, but that decision is particularly infuriating and I really don't think there's a good excuse for changing that dialogue Luigi Thirty posted:Someone call the JSSDF, we've got a leftist terrorist here give antifa their own eva
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Jul 24, 2019 08:39
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my wife's response to Kaworu asking Shinji to bathe was "okay so they gently caress, is it now or later?" Even if communal bathing is way less sexualized in Japan it isn't exactly subtle what the intent is. Kaworu might be the only person to show Shinji love and affection but he sure appeals to Shinji's base sexual needs.
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Jul 24, 2019 08:58
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noether posted:give antifa their own eva 
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Jul 24, 2019 09:02
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The music is so god drat good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErEfQmra6W4
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Jul 24, 2019 10:11
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Million Ghosts posted:my wife's response to Kaworu asking Shinji to bathe was "okay so they gently caress, is it now or later?" Even if communal bathing is way less sexualized in Japan it isn't exactly subtle what the intent is. Kaworu might be the only person to show Shinji love and affection but he sure appeals to Shinji's base sexual needs.
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Jul 24, 2019 11:07
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noether posted:I think most of the ones in the monster of the week arc did, but I'm admittedly pretty hazy on details Eh, I can buy that Asuka's mental state was just that fragile, and a simple attempt to understand how her mind worked brought everything pouring out. Apart from anything else, Angels' incredibly powerful AT fields presumably mean they're really bad at interpersonal communication.
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Jul 24, 2019 11:14
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Thematically it makes sense to me that the angels' clumsy attempts to understand and befriend humanity caused way more pain and damage than their attacks.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 11:16
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Pierson posted:The music is so god drat good. So good.
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Jul 24, 2019 15:10
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noether posted:give antifa their own eva
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Jul 24, 2019 16:09
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FilthyImp posted:Oh my god it's an AntiFa-Field! Soon, states will be unable to maintain their individual forms!
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Jul 24, 2019 16:47
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Thematically it makes sense to me that the angels' clumsy attempts to understand and befriend humanity caused way more pain and damage than their attacks. Each one is an increasingly powerful hedgehog.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:49
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Thematically it makes sense to me that the angels' clumsy attempts to understand and befriend humanity caused way more pain and damage than their attacks. that's an extremely good point Luigi Thirty posted:Soon, states will be unable to maintain their individual forms! 
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Jul 24, 2019 17:13
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yeah i guess upon thinking i never really get a vibe of malice from the angels. hell, one of them is explicitly friendly in a way we'd understand.
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Jul 24, 2019 19:57
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tbp posted:yeah i guess upon thinking i never really get a vibe of malice from the angels. hell, one of them is explicitly friendly in a way we'd understand. Zeruel is definitely malicious. Interesting that he's one of the most Evangelion-like angels, though - makes you wonder what they learned from Bardiel and Leliel's experiences.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:23
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Darth Walrus posted:Zeruel is definitely malicious. Interesting that he's one of the most Evangelion-like angels, though - makes you wonder what they learned from Bardiel and Leliel's experiences. Do we know that the Angels communicate with each other?
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Jul 24, 2019 20:33
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Almost all of the angels are clearly well suited to destroying things. A few of them, like Arael and Leliel, are a little weird, but still obviously dangerous and not just acting like big peaceful cows wandering through a meadow.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:22
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Spiritus Nox posted:Do we know that the Angels communicate with each other? We don't, but you can somewhat infer it from how their behaviour and tactics change over the course of the series. In particular, all of them from Iruel onwards (except Zeruel) seen to be trying to communicate with and understand humanity and the Evangelions in various ways.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:22
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I think there's a conversation at some point where they speculate the angels work entirely independently but seem to learn from previous failures.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:26
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Would make sense as Zeruel is where they're like "Alright, fuckers, try this on" with the most physically damaging Angel in the series getting beaten, and from there we get Arael and Armisael.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:40
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I'm about a dozen episodes in now. Things continued to pick up after the first couple of episodes, but the real saving grace was the introduction of Asuka. This cast needed a protagonist with a louder personality so badly. I like that every episode has a unique take on the Angels and that the battles/solutions are all totally different. I'd worried after the first couple of episodes that that that part of the show would be super-formulaic, but it hasn't been so far. I also like how incredibly lovely NERV is. Every plan has a basically 0-to-10% chance of working, they have exactly three of these mechs and the mechs themselves kind of suck, the kids just go to a random junior high in town with no protection whatsoever, every attack is just MacGyver'd together, it's great. Also, I've heard that the show's budget got a huge cut somewhere in the next few episodes, which is wild to me. I think the cinematography/staging of some of the shots is incredible and there are a handful of well-animated scenes, too, but it already feels like they've cut a ton of budgetary corners to this point. I can't imagine how many times they'll reuse that Misato beer-drinking animation now...
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Jul 24, 2019 22:01
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surf rock posted:I'm about a dozen episodes in now. Things continued to pick up after the first couple of episodes, but the real saving grace was the introduction of Asuka. This cast needed a protagonist with a louder personality so badly. Budget isn't an issue with anime productions, since nearly all of them are made for roughly the same amount of money (although Gainax wasn't in the greatest financial situation when NGE aired). The real problems come up when the workflow and scheduling breaks down (like when your director has chronic depression). Anno is also a close friend of Kunihiko Ikuhara, who likes to use repeated stock footage for effect (for instance, to establish a practiced routine).
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Jul 24, 2019 22:19
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surf rock posted:
This is not quite true - the shows budget was never really cut, by all accounts, but pressure from the networks and the creator having a major depression episode essentially grenaded the production and kept them from keeping the later episodes consistently polished in presentation.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:22
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The Misato beer drinking animation is a gag.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:33
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Beefstew posted:The Misato beer drinking animation is a gag. More of a gulp.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:23
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The Macguyvered stuff really is the coolest. Finding really specialized old hardware laying around and taping it together at the last second. Yamashita tweeted this the other day and I thought the lander legs on the submarine in Avant1 were an Apollo reference but the ones on this soviet lunar lander are even more similar. The booster flames also look like the ones on Mari's robot arms that twist up the Eiffel tower.  https://twitter.com/ikuto_yamashita/status/1152390547450916864
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Jul 24, 2019 23:45
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