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Brought To You By posted:I'm comparing how silly the idea of stacking power ups has become in both series. Ichigo's hollow form had narrative weight and was well executed much like the workshop battle leading up to the first thorn. But How exactly do you expect him to fight the strongest man in the world without powerups? Especially since that dude is very aware of Baam's existence? I don't know what genre you think you're reading if you weren't okay with heaping power ups on the main character, though. That's been the premise since very early on. ToG was just refreshingly upfront about Baam's unique powers, what makes him special, and eventually why he is special. It certainly handled the mysterious circumstances of his strengths better than most shonen. The Thorns are things he earned. The Workshop Battle and FoD are both great arcs and Baam being rewarded for incredibly dangerous day saving is what shonen heroes are all about. They're also really key story components tying into the overarching story. We know the deal with the Thorns, they're named in Baam's ongoing prophecy, one of the few things actually named in it (Baam, Arlene, Enryu, Zahard, V, and the Thorn!). I get that the Souls are a tossed in power up but he doesn't even use that power because he doesn't feel morally right doing so after the White showdown. The only thing that happened in the sim world was a training arc. He wasn't granted any bullshit powerups, he just started using his power better. He made his own techniques from scratch. Less a power up and more just...why wouldn't Baam have his own moves? The two main powerups you missed were the Red and Blue Thyrssas, though he hasn't seemingly used those to any effect unless they're just generic powerups (They show up as his little ghosty horns when he's going all out but it's not that discernible). If you want to call those out for being lame hand outs then sure. But one of those didn't take any screen time. And sure, if/when Baam can suddenly use Canine Person transformations it'll probably fall in the Thyrssa category but eh. There's still a bunch of abilities, powers, and techniques we've seen that Baam can't or doesn't emulate despite his power being literally to emulate anything. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 00:43
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So I also do kinda agree with Brought To You By in that the power-ups are kind of a lazy way to show growth but ehhh it's either that or like objective power levels or something. (Or just beating some dude's rear end, as just happened, using zero powerups)
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Sep 3, 2019 01:23
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Power ups are just a fact of this kind of genre. They are going to happen, the only deciding factor about them is whether it is done in a justified way or a bad way. One of you is on one side of that line, the other is on...the other. I don't think either of you will change the other person's mind about their respective stance. Anyway, for my worthless comedy forum poster response to talking about FUG, imagine waiting literal thousands of years for the prophesied savior of your life to arrive, the one that will destroy the status quo and take revenge for all that you've been through, that will justify all the lovely and morally dubious decisions you've ever made in these thousands of years of waiting and plotting, and he just goes "you guys are kind of shite, no thx" and walks off to do adventures in a game format with his harem of pretty boys and girls. I'm sincerely hoping some variant of this happens when Baam finally meets Luslec later on.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:59
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There's a reasonable mix of hard earned power ups through what I consider good storytelling and some worse, more generic power ups. But where ToG gets it right is the most important power ups are pretty storytelling related in the Thorns and Baam's history/prophecy explaining his blue magey-ness.
Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 02:00
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Two Tone Shoes posted:How exactly do you expect him to fight the strongest man in the world without powerups? Especially since that dude is very aware of Baam's existence? quote:I don't know what genre you think you're reading if you weren't okay with heaping power ups on the main character, though. That's been the premise since very early on. ToG was just refreshingly upfront about Baam's unique powers, what makes him special, and eventually why he is special. It certainly handled the mysterious circumstances of his strengths better than most shonen. And if you are putting this in the same "genre" as Hunter x Hunter, which is the series ToG was consistently compared too. I'll remind you that the MC only got 1 real powerup and he didn't even use it on the main villain of the longest and weightiest arc in the story so far. What genre is this story a part of? And why are you consistently missing my point that it's not the fact that he's got powerups, it's that SIU is getting lazy and ridiculous with it? Early on Baam got an ignition weapon and a bunch of friends. He was already strong but didn't realize how deep that well went and it wasn't until the timeskip that any real inclination of him starting to hoard powers inside of him. Most people just commented that his potential and affinity towards shinsu was insane. quote:I get that the Souls are a tossed in power up but he doesn't even use that power because he doesn't feel morally right doing so after the White showdown. The only thing that happened in the sim world was a training arc. He wasn't granted any bullshit powerups, he just started using his power better. He made his own techniques from scratch. Less a power up and more just...why wouldn't Baam have his own moves? quote:The two main powerups you missed were the Red and Blue Thyrssas, t quote:There's still a bunch of abilities, powers, and techniques we've seen that Baam can't or doesn't emulate despite his power being literally to emulate anything. As for How Baam is supposed to beat all these people without powerups. I don't think the story has to end with him dethroning Jahad just because a group of people want him too. If Baam's friends and mentors would stop being made into hostages he'd honestly gently caress off but they keep pulling him back further. There isn't an easy fix to this though since SIU has already put people like Jahad on the tier of reality warping so this is the fate of this story now. Baam is going to add more and more accessories to his final form every arc or so and that's how it will be until the end. Maybe if the story can maneuver itself into a trajectory where a direct confrontation with Jahad isn't as inevitable as it might seem I could see there being a much earlier end to this clown car but I don't so I'll keep reading and grumbling when Baam gets puppy ears. Because my best guess is that Baam absorbing Doom's power is going to be a loophole with killing Doom but keeping the Canine race alive. Baam will just be the new vessel long enough to transfer that same power to Deng Deng or something while Doom gets mauled by his brother and Karaka.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:32
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Yeah man all it took was one training montage for Luke to take down the baddest motherfucker in the galaxy. Not a lot of power ups, but certainly just as preposterous and silly. But that's six hours compared to hundreds of chapters. If you think ToG is stretching on too long and SIU should've just gotten to the climax instead of escalating then alright but I think that's a disservice to ToG's worldbuilding work. The genre is, ostensibly, action fantasy for boys. Typically referred to a shonen around here but that's japanese instead of korean so who knows. In a larger scope it falls under monomyth. I don't know why the hell you're bringing up HxH, but if you're using that to diss ToG then...what's the opposite of damning with faint praise? Praising with faint damnation? Sure, HxH is better. Gon got multiple powerups, though. Usually through training arcs, just like Baam. First learning Nen, then learning Hatsu, then learning to break his limits and I'm sure you know the rest. HxH also has the aspect of a couple of the arcs not even involving Gon very much (York New and everything since Chimera Ants) so he hasn't had to scale up each time...yet. HxH isn't a monomyth, though. Baam needing to escalate absurdly is foundational to the story. It has been the premise since that fateful finale. And if you think the story's been poo poo since Rachel pushed him then alright, maybe you just don't like the kind of story this obviously is. Baam has to beat Zahard because Zahard is going to loving kill him. AGAIN. It is not just what FUG wants him to do at this point. They're going to come to a head. He's the big bad at the end of the myth. He's the Emperor. He's Agent Smith. Maybe SIU will spin it a different way to subvert the trope but I don't know why you'd expect or even want a different trajectory. If you are pre-emptively upset that Baam is going to stop a genocide and a racewide loss of free will then okay man. Weird thing to know you're going to grumble about. This was never going to be your story if you can't stand a main character who gets a lot of power ups. You probably should've stopped reading at the very beginning of Season 2. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 02:46
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Man, being two stories ahead is worth the money just to laugh at arguments like this.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:55
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Yeah man all it took was one training montage for Luke to take down the baddest motherfucker in the galaxy. Not a lot of power ups, but certainly just as preposterous and silly. But that's six hours compared to hundreds of chapters. quote:If you think ToG is stretching on too long and SIU should've just gotten to the climax instead of escalating then alright but I think that's a disservice to ToG's worldbuilding work. quote:The genre is, ostensibly, action fantasy for boys. Typically referred to a shonen quote:If you are pre-emptively upset that Baam is going to stop a genocide and a racewide loss of free will then okay man. Weird thing to know you're going to grumble about. quote:And if you think the story's been poo poo since Rachel pushed them then alright, maybe you just don't like the kind of story this obviously is. quote:This was never going to be your story if you can't stand a main character who gets a lot of power ups. You probably should've stopped reading at the very beginning of Season 2.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:20
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Season 1, Episode 2, Baam is given the greatest Needle in the entire Tower. If you didn't know where this story was going then, you are bad at stories. e: By a princess that falls from the sky and tells him he'll grow up to be handsome. Mulva fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 03:41
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Brought To You By posted:You realize that Luke didn't even beat the emperor right? And it was 2 1/2 movies before Luke even arrived at that point not a single training montage. Because the cycle of failure and quest to gain power to beat the big bad guy who's tormenting you is the fundamental point of the monomyth. It's the word of the day because you're complaining about a functional part of a pretty typical storytelling narrative. Darth Vader was the big bad rear end guy at the end that had been tormenting Luke and Co. and Luke beat him. Then the largely non-present emperor showed up to give us some redemption. It wasn't 2 1/2 movies. Luke got smashed by Vader at the end of episode 5, then beat him in episode 6 after completing his training with Yoda. Insert Futurama Balls Joke here. It seems your main issue is...the number of power ups? Or the way Baam gets them? I just don't get the Bleach comparisons because the shoddy, awful thing about Bleach is not really how ToG has gone about it. Bleach wrote itself into corners and retcons every arc whereas ToG has the decency to establish that the world is big, the threats are numerous, nearly unending, and enormous in scope, and the path is necessarily long and arduous. I can get it being repetitive but I feel like that was signed up for a long time ago and complaining about it now is like complaining about grass growing. And HxH, despite being action fantasy like ToG or Bleach, is a genre mishmash from arc to arc which is part of the charm. I guess "shonen" isn't a genre, but it is descriptive of the fiction in the same way calling something "pulp" is. If I told you a story was a shonen story you could probably come to some conclusions about it, or consume it and verify if the description was right. If it's not a genre then what is it? A description of media? Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 04:23
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Eh it's a pretty fair complaint to level that some of the power ups were received in boring ways, that didn't tie into the greater story in a well integrated manner. The frequency with which those have happened has increased, and I also rolled my eyes at doom trying to "mind control" Baam instead of killing him.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:37
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Sure, but it's certainly nowhere close to as stupid as Bleach got and, in general, I think it handles it on the better side of most stories in the same category.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:43
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I always just figured Baam's power is that he attracts, absorbs, and integrates pretty much everything into himself. From techniques and power-ups to people and connections.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:54
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Two Tone Shoes posted:It's the word of the day because you're complaining about a functional part of a pretty typical storytelling narrative.  And the thoughts of fluffy dog ears doesn't seem strange. Maybe we should take a moment to introspect on how we got here. And for the umpteenth time, just because you can say it's a part of a narrative structure doesn't mean it's well executed which even you admit this story hasn't consistently nailed on some of these power ups. It's not a valid defense by itself to claim monomyth and pretend that's all that matters. quote:It wasn't 2 1/2 movies. Luke got smashed by Vader at the end of episode 5, then beat him in episode 6 after completing his training with Yoda. Insert Futurama Balls Joke here. quote:It seems your main issue is...the number of power ups? All this, because Tite Kubo is a hack and I wanted to take the piss out of SIU being just as ridiculous if not in this upcoming fight, than in some of his more recent instances of beefing Baam up. It doesn't matter that ToG is better written overall, we've reached the point of equal absurdity. quote:If it's not a genre then what is it? A description of media? Volume 1 of Kaiju Girl is a fun read, more people should give it a look
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Sep 3, 2019 05:30
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Can you all just loving stop.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:52
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Soon Baam will absorb the power of shitposting.
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Sep 3, 2019 07:43
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nimby posted:Soon Baam will absorb the power of shitposting. He will destroy Jahad with tweets, which unfortunately will rarely be easy to translate properly.
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Sep 3, 2019 08:33
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Hodgepodge posted:He will destroy Jahad with tweets, which unfortunately will rarely be easy to translate properly. Baam destroying Jahad while backed up with 140 characters? I can see that happening, yeah.
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Sep 3, 2019 09:57
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I want Baam to look like a katamari ball at the end
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Sep 3, 2019 12:23
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He’s a growing boy he needs to eat
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Sep 3, 2019 12:34
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Because the cycle of failure and quest to gain power to beat the big bad guy who's tormenting you is the fundamental point of the monomyth. It's the word of the day because you're complaining about a functional part of a pretty typical storytelling narrative. Darth Vader was the big bad rear end guy at the end that had been tormenting Luke and Co. and Luke beat him. Then the largely non-present emperor showed up to give us some redemption. I think also people don't pay attention to the fact that years have passed in the story's narrative. Each floor can take months or even longer to clear, we see only snapshots of important events in the tale of Baam and the rest and not the months training, or exploring... or caught in a stupid game sitting on a flag to keep someone else from capping (I'm sure this has happened to them at least once given the tower's bullshit rules)
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Sep 3, 2019 15:55
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My only complaint with this new potential power up is that we haven't even seen Baam go full power since his last training montage with Evankhell. We know he has spent the last... 5? Years training, but know nothing about where he is (except that he can beat a ranker sans thorn) and yet he is already getting more power poured into him. It would be nice if we actually got a chance to see him going all out before he gets More Power. End of the day, stealing power ups from outside sources is kinda literally Baam's talent. He can learn anything he has been hit with that isn't a Super Unique Skill, that's his whole ability. It just happens to apply to a lot of the non attacks he touches too. That said, I don't think that Doom's actions indicate stupidity on his part fully. they've mentioned a few times in the past that Baam seems to flow through Shinshu, and it through him, rather than the typical non-irregular reaction being it oppressing and being blocked by a resistance. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 17:11
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nimby posted:Soon Baam will absorb the power of shitposting. Oh man I actually laughed out loud at work. I'm glad this thread is seeing some action again.
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Sep 3, 2019 17:13
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Just to add to the powerups pile - don't forget Baam also has Black March inside him and there is the prophecy about "true master" reuniting the 13 swords to unlock the highest floors so let's look forward to Baam Pincushion Edition 
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Sep 4, 2019 20:08
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Bernardo Orel posted:Just to add to the powerups pile - don't forget Baam also has Black March inside him and there is the prophecy about "true master" reuniting the 13 swords to unlock the highest floors so let's look forward to Baam Pincushion Edition I thought Yuri has both Black March and Green April? Or did she give Black March back to Baam after going insane from trying to ignite both of them at once?
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Sep 4, 2019 22:49
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She threw it at him during that giant battle at the end of the hell train and then Bam ate her. She's presumably chilling with the bigass orb, some demon things, fake viole, and whatever else is in there at this point
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Sep 4, 2019 22:52
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He's still got whatever that lobster was lol
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Sep 4, 2019 22:55
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The thing from the beginning of the season? Did that ever get explained?
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Sep 4, 2019 22:59
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I legit think SIU forgot about that thing, and thus it will never be explained, but can be assumed to be a FUG thing.
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Sep 4, 2019 23:14
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If you mean the Fake Thorn, that was given to him to help prepare him to be melted down into a sword. If you mean the Red Thryssa, it's a fragment of the old Guardian of the Floor of Death.
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Sep 4, 2019 23:49
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I'm pretty sure the blue demon is just a blue version of the red Thryssa. It's why/how FUG had a secret drug to extract it from someone (hello Baam) and why the Red Thryssa thought Baam was very similar to it, since he had that power in his little cavalcade. I'm not sure it was explicitly said, though. They also have the same attitude. "USE MY POWER TO DESTROY EVERYTHING I'M THE BEST AND MOST POWERFUL" The juxtaposition being Baam denying to rely on purely it and instead hone his own abilities while Joe reveled in his easily gotten power. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 00:34
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Brought To You By posted:Your making this about quality but I think power ups over the story are pretty ham fisted and badly implemented. The core of the issue is that Baam is going to probably add k9 powers to his inventory and that's just as boring as ichigo being half quincy, half soul reaper, also part hollow making him a vizard as well as being a full bringer. My main issue with Baam's power-ups is that that sort of plot device kinda requires de-emphasizing combat as an element in the story, since there's little tension to the direct fights that involve Baam. Baam succeeding is kinda the obvious thing since he's literally destined to do so, so it's more interesting to see what he chooses to do (other than defeating Jahad or whatever) and how other characters react to that.
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Sep 5, 2019 02:43
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Brought To You By posted:The thing from the beginning of the season? Did that ever get explained? This is the most we got about it so far: https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-43/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=123
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Sep 5, 2019 04:11
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https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-3-ep-26/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=444 Edit: Evankhell is really super quickly climbing the ranks of my favorite characters Hirethor fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 03:48
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Huh, I could have sworn the translation used to use female pronouns for Evankhell
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Sep 9, 2019 08:06
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The translation is bad and siu confirmed in a blog post she's a woman
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Sep 9, 2019 08:29
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I mean, you can see the bosom bulge even in this chapter (which had the bad translation). Bad translation + SIU pulling a fast one with Hansung ages ago made the misconception happen. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 12:48
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No discussion at all about how Yama is BOSS and also a very cool and chill dude Who is utterly immune to your shinsu if you have even the slightest drop of fear towards him
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Sep 9, 2019 14:12
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So if you're bitch made, you can't fight Yama at all. I like that. "just shut up Paul, I'm talking"
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Sep 9, 2019 14:13
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Yama's power is like a Jojo's stand out of nowhere I'm really curious how this is going to end without all the dog people dying.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:23
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