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eh requiring a BA shrinks the potential hire pool for police departments which in turn should incentivise these institutions to institute more robust / effective training regiments because they can't just replace bad hires with rookies. It also would likely require that they pay better to compete with other industries that a BA would open up their applicants to. Who knows what it would actually look like in the real world though.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:30
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If we could find a way to disqualify prior military from being cops I would be on board. E: typo colachute fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 19:31
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colachute posted:If we could find a way to disqualify prior military from people cops I would be on board.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:34
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Kawasaki Nun posted:We should disarm all police and repeal the 2nd amendment I’d be a lot more amenable to gun control if it affected the police first. A few months ago, we had an issue in my building with a neighbor who had dementia. She basically convinced herself that a local grifter was her boyfriend and invited him home to live with her while he quietly stole and sold her poo poo. Long story short, Adult Protective Services and then the cops got involved. As soon as APS got called, I started getting religious about making sure my door was locked at all loving times, even when my fiancée and I were at home. My demented neighbor lived directly underneath me, and our unit numbers were only one number apart. I could have seen a situation wherein the cops went to the wrong unit, opened the door, freaked out my dog and prompted him to charge or bark at them, and then I’d be left with a dead dog (and probably a dead me because I can’t guarantee that I wouldn’t try to beat the everloving gently caress out of someone who hurt my dog, no matter who they are.) The DC police don’t even have a reputation for being trigger happy, but these sure are things you think about when there’s a lot more uniforms around your home than you’re used to.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:35
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Maybe cops can try to understand the communities they are policing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl1XoK3juVs
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Oct 13, 2019 19:38
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Wasabi the J posted:Maybe cops can try to understand the communities they are policing. Well, that sure was a speech 
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Oct 13, 2019 20:08
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#3 is interesting in that while an educated force would potentially be a better force, it's also an arbitrary gate to the profession that would largely affect the underprivileged.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:11
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EBB posted:#3 is interesting in that while an educated force would potentially be a better force, it's also an arbitrary gate to the profession that would largely affect the underprivileged. And put more whites in it.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:11
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stealie72 posted:1) No more DoD freebies for police departments I think discussion like this really does help. There are over 700,000 police officers in these U.S., plus civilian support, just over half of the personnel in the U.S. Military. The U.S. spends $100 billion on law enforcement and $80 billion on incarceration a year, combining to 1/20th of our federal budget (though the spending isn't all from federal sources), just under 1/3rd of the $610 billion we spend on the military every year. These are big issues that will require nuanced answers. Numbers: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/08/07/how-much-do-u-s-cities-spend-every-year-on-policing-infographic/#7a9ab184e7b7 https://www.governing.com/gov-data/public-workforce-salaries/military-civilian-active-duty-employee-workforce-numbers-by-state.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States Edit: Good point about 3, I didn't consider that. piL fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 20:11
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piL posted:I think discussion like this really does help. I literally majored in ethics and took multiple minority studies classes in college as well as West African history classes specifically because I wanted to go into law enforcement. I recommend it.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:20
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Yeah, 3 could be "make the academy more academically rigorous" and 3a "and the department/gov pays for the academy" Or, you know Free College For All and then require a BA.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:20
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I'd thought the conventional wisdom was that vets are generally more responsible than the typical LEO given that many have had experience with strict rules of engagement and might have seen first-hand the benefit of not rousing ill-will in the community. Is that not accurate?
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Oct 13, 2019 20:21
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Cops need to get paid a lot more, too.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:22
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Quick google says in dallas anyway vet cops are more shooty. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/10/15/police-with-military-experience-more-likely-to-shoot Mr. Nice! posted:Cops need to get paid a lot more, too.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:25
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd thought the conventional wisdom was that vets are generally more responsible than the typical LEO given that many have had experience with strict rules of engagement and might have seen first-hand the benefit of not rousing ill-will in the community. Is that not accurate? Like everything else: it depends on the individual. If you've got some "rah rah I am in the reserves and I just want to kill haji" type he really shouldnt be in any job that gives him authority. Or an actual veteran with severe PTSD. Really, rules like this are all irrelevant without better and deeper background checks plus an emphasis on deescalation in training.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:26
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stealie72 posted:Quick google says in dallas anyway vet cops are more shooty. Gotta climb that promotion ladder somehow.
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Oct 13, 2019 20:28
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Kawasaki Nun posted:eh requiring a BA shrinks the potential hire pool for police departments which in turn should incentivise these institutions to institute more robust / effective training regiments because they can't just replace bad hires with rookies. It also would likely require that they pay better to compete with other industries that a BA would open up their applicants to. Who knows what it would actually look like in the real world though. Now replace "cops" with "military officers" and see if you still agree. stealie72 posted:Quick google says in dallas anyway vet cops are more shooty. You're not going to attract better people with poo poo wages that require 20 hrs of overtime a week just to keep the mortgage paid up. Edit: Also I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but in some states potential cops have to pay their way through the academy unless they have a job waiting for them (which is one way that vets get in so easily...the PD knows they can take orders and run a mile or whatever so they're less of a risk than the 22 year old college student who hasn't worked anywhere but fast food). Godholio fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 20:31
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Vet cops are almost always more shooty. https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article-abstract/41/3/e245/5114353
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Oct 13, 2019 20:33
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stealie72 posted:1) No more DoD freebies for police departments Anytime they fire their weapon not during training have a new procedure for investigating if the shoot was legit. You shoot them in the calf with a through and through and they dont get compensation for missed work or hospital bills until the shoot was found legit. Going to be a whole lot less quick on the trigger if theyre getting shot either way. Cant do it in the arm or thigh because too easy to hit the arfery. With the calf you can keep the bullet away easer Edit: cuz right now the mental math seems to be "if i dont shoot this person i may get shot". This may change it to " is shooting this person worth getting shot". And it would clear out the people who only wanted a legal way to shoot people Stravag fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 20:37
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Godholio posted:Now replace "cops" with "military officers" and see if you still agree. I don't really understand what you're getting at with this statement. Cops shouldn't be earning poverty wages and we as a nation should not be hiring bottom of the barrel applicants to police our communities because that's all we are willing to pay. I fail to see the relevance of comparing cops to military officers, and my experience in the submarine navy generally only put me in contact with an officer corps that was incredibly competent on average. Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 21:52
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Let's massively demilitarize and cut defense spending because holy poo poo maybe having an economy that relies upon constant militarization is bad
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Oct 13, 2019 22:22
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Kawasaki Nun posted:I don't really understand what you're getting at with this statement. Cops shouldn't be earning poverty wages and we as a nation should not be hiring bottom of the barrel applicants to police our communities because that's all we are willing to pay. The stupidity of requiring a degree, any degree, as a way of determining whether one is qualified for a job that is almost certainly unrelated to the field of said degree. Edit: Actually I think we're in agreement on this. Not really sure how I misread your post, so pretend I was piling on.
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Oct 13, 2019 23:55
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Oct 14, 2019 00:25
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Dude was right. Dorner for best cop in history.
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Oct 14, 2019 00:40
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Dude was right. Dorner for best cop in history.
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Oct 14, 2019 00:49
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Cops are loving civilians. How is this loving hard they aren't in the military they're loving civilians. Take away protections. take away the ability to self police. If you fire your service weapon you are done working as a police officer.
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Oct 14, 2019 00:58
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We need a judiciary that is willing to stop believing that law enforcement is acting in good faith. In essence, we should stop giving the benefit of a doubt to the people who have literally all the power and all the protection.
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Oct 14, 2019 02:26
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Proud Christian Mom posted:We need a judiciary that is willing to stop believing that law enforcement is acting in good faith. It concerns me that there have been a few times this past week or so that we've agreed.
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Oct 14, 2019 05:12
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Honestly make cops meet the FLETC standards. If they fail to be able to talk to people have a nice day. If they dont understand that the contact officer stays the contact officer have a nice day. You want fed funding meet fed standards otherwise get hosed.
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Oct 14, 2019 05:31
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bird cooch posted:Cops are loving civilians. Yeah, this is the thing that people don't seem to grasp: there's no such thing as a "blue life". It's a job, just like any other job. You choose to be a cop, it's not something that is forced upon you. At this point anyone who has chosen to be a cop has picked a side in a fight between the general population and an oppressive armed force.
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Oct 14, 2019 05:38
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A Bad Poster posted:a fight between the general population and an oppressive armed force. I suspect that's not how most of them see it.
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Oct 14, 2019 06:04
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Godholio posted:I suspect that's not how most of them see it. I worry more than it's exactly how many of them see it, and they want to be on the winning side.
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Oct 14, 2019 06:34
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Liquid Communism posted:I worry more than it's exactly how many of them see it, and they want to be on the winning side. Its this
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Oct 14, 2019 06:42
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Actually, nvm.
AlexanderCA fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 14, 2019 07:14
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Proud Christian Mom posted:We need a judiciary that is willing to stop believing that law enforcement is acting in good faith. That's uh, not the purpose of the courts. It would make a lot more sense to fix policing than to have courts assume the government is acting in bad faith.
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Oct 14, 2019 08:31
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Melthir posted:Honestly make cops meet the FLETC standards. If they fail to be able to talk to people have a nice day. If they dont understand that the contact officer stays the contact officer have a nice day. You want fed funding meet fed standards otherwise get hosed. This is one of the first realistic posts in a while in this thread.
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Oct 14, 2019 13:26
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Melthir posted:Honestly make cops meet the FLETC standards. If they fail to be able to talk to people have a nice day. If they dont understand that the contact officer stays the contact officer have a nice day. You want fed funding meet fed standards otherwise get hosed. Got a link or full description of these standards? Never heard of it before, kind of interested.
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Oct 14, 2019 13:44
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Fort Worth police chief apparently figured out this was going to be bad and can't cover it up. Named the officer, said he would have fired him today if he didn't resign, gave evidence to the FBI for civil rights violation.
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Oct 14, 2019 19:33
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Shooting Blanks posted:Got a link or full description of these standards? Never heard of it before, kind of interested. here's police JKO.
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Oct 14, 2019 19:37
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Grem posted:Fort Worth police chief apparently figured out this was going to be bad and can't cover it up. The witness murder or the lady who got shot for standing infront of her window with a gun in the house,
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Oct 14, 2019 19:41
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