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Sagebrush posted:I was kind of with you until you said this has to be done in two weeks. No way that is happening. Two months would be more realistic for a project of this scale. Possibly much more than that if it's not your primary duty and you've never done it before. N-thing this and pretty much most of the advice here. I work in company that specializes in museums and event spaces - I’ve built some large scale projects with 1000+ pixels. But yeah, this really is more of a job for pro equipment. Heck, even a direct led display like a large scale concept video wall could work well here. Tying it into professional DMX equipment or something similar will make it much easier to interface with in the future too. Those consoles can easily generate the patterns needed, rather than abstracting it all into math functions. FYI: look at stuff like GVA Lighting, or even low end batten fixtures from Chauvet- a lot of them can have individual control of sections of lights within one fixture. Oh, my two cents from experience too: gently caress wireless on stuff like this. Wired connections are gonna be way more reliable in that kind of space. Hope things go well! This sounds super cool But yeah this seems to be a bad road.
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Oct 26, 2019 02:29
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It's only 4kW if you power it all together, which is silly. Still it is a moot point, this can't be done in two weeks. Splode fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 02:31
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Splode posted:As I posted before, there is no reason to try and power all the columns from one source. It can be easily split into multiple small modules with sane power requirements, so there's not much concentration required. can you genuinely not tell the difference in a hobbyist putting together a hand rolled 4kw system and a UL-listed IP-rated mass market product designed, distributed, and sold by professionals because it clocks in around 1.8?
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Oct 26, 2019 02:34
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I didn't read the number of LEDs in the original post and now I'm just doubling down
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Oct 26, 2019 02:50
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James Bruton recently did a smaller installation (720 LEDs) he's controlling with DMX to go along with a couple of dancing robots he made in previous months. He described it as quite a lot of power when they're all displaying white since it's full RGB on all of them to do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCFG7qSxgag He's making these items so that they could be used in shows, not so much for a permanent install. He's got a lot of experience with electronics and electro-mechanical builds and while this isn't the exact same project it's got some similarity so I figured it might be useful.
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Oct 26, 2019 02:55
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If your bosses are serious about handing the new guy a project of this scale with a 2 week deadline the only helpful advice will be found in this thread. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531&pagenumber=1&perpage=40
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Oct 26, 2019 03:04
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Splode posted:It's only 4kW if you power it all together, which is silly. You're missing the point, when you get into more serious electronics stuff the total power gives a ballpark of what problems to deal with. Sure you can break it up into 20x 200 watt supplies but at the end of the day you're still pushing 4kW of power through 20 or some columns of lights. That's a LOT of power, and neopixels are not 100% efficient so you're going to be generating a ton of heat in addition to light. Like you might need to actively cool the columns and lights or else it will feel like a sauna. Also where does all the power for those 20 power supplies come from... your main distribution box and you better believe just plugging in 4kW of new load is NOT going to go down well with it.
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Oct 26, 2019 03:31
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Hey this seems like a great time to jump in with my big dumb neopixel project I'm hoping to build a giant marquee, 7 rows x 75 columns, so I can scroll text across it and whatnot. Works out to under 40amps, so I've got a 40amp supply on the way. This is kind of an order of magnitude smaller than Harvey Birdman but this is still way bigger than any project I've worked on. I know I need to do a power drop every ... 30 LEDs? or so, but any other gotchas I need to look out for with this? e: using 2811s, so not technically neopixels, though I doubt that makes a difference? Sockser fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Oct 26, 2019 |
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Oct 26, 2019 03:49
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How big is the marquee supposed to be, physically? Could you use a pre-built smd LED panel or two? It'll probably be much cheaper and way easier to drive. I've only played with a single line of like 15 2811s so I can't comment on working on 4 kW worth of them. But regarding the ESP32: you can use the I2S with DMA to drive them pretty efficiently. And there's a ton of flexibility with WiFI to do all sorts of weird stuff to tune it for your scenario (like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOsN096ZbE) but even in absolutely standard code, I have no issue sending data for 2048 leds at 60 fps over UDP. Still, for a permanent commercial installation I'd definitely prefer to go wired.
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Oct 27, 2019 00:09
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It’s gonna be 10ft wife, using ping pong balls as diffusers, so using prebuilt LED panels would either restrict my size quite a bit or crank up my pixel count by a lot I think I’m switching it up to be 8 rows of 64 vs 7 rows of 75 so I can just use a fade candy to manage everything for me. I think I’m looking at <24A at 70% brightness for my whole setup, but I still ordered some power buses and fuses today just to make sure things are more manageable and safe
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Oct 27, 2019 00:35
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Sockser posted:It’s gonna be 10ft wife, using ping pong balls as diffusers, so using prebuilt LED panels would either restrict my size quite a bit or crank up my pixel count by a lot I have a 16x16 display of 12V ws2182, run as a single 256 pixel line, then turned into a display in the fastleds library. My power supply runs through the middle of the display with solid copper 12AWG wire soldered to the LED strips. No pixel is more than 8 away from a supply rail, and everything seems to run really cool. That is to say: imagine a single 256-pixel-long strip, folded back on itself every 16 pixels. So down 16, then up 16, then down 16, etc. The data comes in the top left column, out the bottom, then up the next column, then down the next column, etc. The power comes across the 8th row, so each strip is in parallel. The solid copper wire has WAY more than enough current capacity for the whole system, and is easy to solder to. I can actually run two of these displays on a single arduino uno with two data lines at about 50-90Hz refresh while doing other things. The 12V power doesn't seem to interfere with anything, and I don't have anything special isolation-wise going on with the data line. If I forget to turn on the 12VDC though, only the first two pixels in each line work, and then the next thirty or so are red, then the rest are blank. This condition exists until the Uno's regulator goes into thermal shutdown and I realize what an idiot I've been (again).
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Oct 27, 2019 06:42
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I might be past the purview of the Arduino thread and need to step into the electronics thread at this point but here's a lovely Fritzing sketch of my project-- That pile of barrel jacks on the left is standing in for the three paired outputs on my 40A power supply, and I've got two 3in-10out power bars to distribute power to the LED strings down there on the bottom (The fritzing library is kind of lacking) Does this uhhh make sense? It feels like it makes sense but this is definitely stretching the limits of my confidence.
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Oct 28, 2019 01:46
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Why do you have a 30A fuse going to your raspberry pi? Your pi will die long before that fuse even realizes there's any current going through it.
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Oct 28, 2019 02:23
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Cojawfee posted:Why do you have a 30A fuse going to your raspberry pi? Your pi will die long before that fuse even realizes there's any current going through it. This is a fair point. Don’t know what I was thinking there. And realistically I should just hook the pi to the bus bar supplying power to the neopixels to simplify wiring.
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Oct 28, 2019 14:22
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I'm trying to make a something and I want it to have a switch to turn it off and on with. I'm planning to leave the Arduino's A/C adapter available as well as batteries for when it's not plugged in. But I'm not sure if that's possible. Is there a way I can use a switch to turn off the A/C power / the whole Arduino? Also, does the Arduino prioritize using the A/C adapter over VIN if I connect both?
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Oct 29, 2019 16:08
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Shadow0 posted:Also, does the Arduino prioritize using the A/C adapter over VIN if I connect both? No. The barrel jack goes through a regulator then dumps onto the VIN pin. Sockser posted:Does this uhhh make sense? It feels like it makes sense but this is definitely stretching the limits of my confidence. If you have a 3-in 10-out busbar, why not connect all 3 ins and then 8 outs to your 8 strings? How is the data line(s) run? I see 3 data lines, is that like 2x200+1x112 or something? I would wire the power up into the center of each string, with a power and ground line to each string. Fuse each line, too. A 10-pack of 5A automotive fuses will protect any individual string from melting the whole thing. Remember: power can be in parallel, so make it as parallel as possible, with the fewest pixels on a string as possible. If you center-feed, you have 32px on each ribbon. If you end-feed, you have 64px.
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Oct 30, 2019 02:34
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:barrel jack I just figured out the answer, thank you! I can get a new barrel jack and have that sticking out instead of the Arduino's. Then I can have that one on the line with the switch. Then I just need a way to prioritize the two input sources.
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Oct 30, 2019 03:36
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:No. The barrel jack goes through a regulator then dumps onto the VIN pin. Not directly. If you take a look at the official schematic, the barrel jack goes through a P channel MOSFET that cuts off the USB power
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Oct 30, 2019 03:42
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:If you have a 3-in 10-out busbar, why not connect all 3 ins and then 8 outs to your 8 strings? How is the data line(s) run? I see 3 data lines, is that like 2x200+1x112 or something? Are you suggesting putting a fuse on the +V to each light strip vs putting a fuse on the 3 lines out from the power supply? I suppose that would save any individual line from dying, and I do have a 10 pack of in-line fuses that would otherwise go to waste. W/r/t power delivery to neopixels-- If I'm pulling 3A per strip@5v, theoretically over this span I should be running 14AWG minimum (I'm using 12AWG for my power lines), but obv the contacts on WS2812s or the wires on WS2811s aren't nearly that thick. Is this just a thing that people ignore with huge projects or is there a reason that it doesn't matter there?
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Oct 30, 2019 05:25
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Shadow0 posted:I just figured out the answer, thank you! I can get a new barrel jack and have that sticking out instead of the Arduino's. Then I can have that one on the line with the switch. Then I just need a way to prioritize the two input sources. DPDT relay my man
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Oct 30, 2019 05:48
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shame on an IGA posted:DPDT relay my man Is this maybe what you meant?  A relay?
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Oct 30, 2019 16:02
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I'm so confused by that diagram
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Oct 30, 2019 18:13
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On a breadboard many years ago Me, age 11 My mom
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Oct 30, 2019 19:50
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Data Graham posted:On a breadboard many years ago The layout is kinda weird, but otherwise "correct" as far as I can tell? Also I would probably add an electrolytic between power/ground, close to the board (e: but before the hard-off manual switch) to cover the relay switching time. peepsalot fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 30, 2019 |
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Oct 30, 2019 20:03
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ante posted:I'm so confused by that diagram Looks like it normally runs off the battery, but when another power source is attached, it activates the relay and then sends power through the normally open contact to provide power.
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Oct 30, 2019 20:07
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Shadow0 posted:Is this maybe what you meant? why don't you just use some diodes  no mechanical parts to fail or suck tons of current keeping a coil energized here
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Oct 30, 2019 23:55
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And no chance of the relay sticking. Diode ORs are the way to go, assuming the voltage drop isn't a real-breaker.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:25
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sharkytm posted:And no chance of the relay sticking. Diode ORs are the way to go, assuming the voltage drop isn't a real-breaker. At 3v it probably will be. You can turn a mosfet into an ideal diode.
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Oct 31, 2019 00:36
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Gonna repeat that the official Uno does exactly that, with a MOSFET
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Oct 31, 2019 00:45
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Malcolm XML posted:At 3v it probably will be. You can turn a mosfet into an ideal diode. This all goes through the regulator anyway so just use 4 nimh cells and a 9v wall wart, I guess if you're super concerned about it you can save 100 of your 200 wasted milliwatts by using schottkys assuming the arduino you have regulates to 3.3v, use 6 cells if its 5v  \/ seems like you would want to be very careful with whatever you attach directly to the usbvcc so that its always near enough 5v if you are going to use what's already built into the board because it doesn't go through the regulator for 5v, unless the suggestion is to make another similar circuit but imo the work/benefit reward there falls off versus a couple diodes Dairy Days fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Oct 31, 2019 |
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Oct 31, 2019 00:56
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does everyone have this poster on ignore orante posted:Gonna repeat that the official Uno does exactly that, with a MOSFET
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Oct 31, 2019 01:08
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 Edit: Forgot the power LED I can tell by everyone's confused reactions that I am doing something normal here that won't end poorly. ante posted:Gonna repeat that the official Uno does exactly that, with a MOSFET Wait, I'm still confused how to turn off the Uno with a switch? Dairy Days posted:This all goes through the regulator anyway so just use 4 nimh cells and a 9v wall wart, I guess if you're super concerned about it you can save 100 of your 200 wasted milliwatts by using schottkys Why USB? I don't need / care about the USB. I want to power it by DC, and if that's not available, batteries. That circuit looks too complicated. If it's not a simple thing to do, it's not really that important. I can just go for straight DC. Or batteries. Dairy Days posted:why don't you just use some diodes Will this work? I vaguely remember seeing somewhere online that if there's a bigger voltage source, it'll override the other in parallel - or maybe I didn't read it right? This would be ideal if that's the case! I'll buy some diodes and a relay and give my idea and that ^ idea a shot. If it doesn't work, I'll just pick one power source. Thanks for all the help, everyone! I'll post a photo of my sad, sad device later. Shadow0 fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 00:33
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That complicated circuit is just an excerpt from the arduino uno schematic, showing the built in switch other posters were talking about, and how if it is allowed to be powered through that switch it is also bypassing the 5v regulator because it expects the power coming from that switch to already be regulated to 5v. The two diode method will just let the higher voltage input be the power source like you said, so just use a higher voltage wall adapter and if that fails or is unplugged then the batteries will be allowed to power the device automatically. You should actually make sure to use schottky diodes if you plan on running off the batteries for more than intermittent faults so you get the most useful life out of them with this method, something like a 1N5817-1N5819 which is very common and cheap would work nicely if you don't plan on drawing more than an amp with this. Like others have said there are other ways to do this more efficiently but it seems like you shouldn't worry about that at this stage because those methods are more complicated. If you want to learn more the search phrase is "power supply ORing"
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Nov 1, 2019 02:11
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ante posted:Gonna repeat that the official Uno does exactly that, with a MOSFET Those pads are just a big solder bridge on my uno. Yay counterfeit parts reducing BOM costs... So yeah, if your specific Uno actually has the MOSFET installed, then the diodes are fine. That relay solution is nice, though, and for the whiners bitching about "mechanical failures" let's just assume this is the worst possible $1 relay. Still probably has 10k cycles in it at 5v, and who cares about the coil draw when on wall power? edit: I checked the six arduinos on my desk. Only the one I grabbed (not an actual arduino.cc branded one) doesn't have the MOSFET. That one has a bunch of stuff missing in the corner; probably any kind of sane power regulation. Glad I never tried to power it from the barrel jack. babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 02:16
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Dairy Days posted:That complicated circuit is just an excerpt from the arduino uno schematic, showing the built in switch other posters were talking about, and how if it is allowed to be powered through that switch it is also bypassing the 5v regulator because it expects the power coming from that switch to already be regulated to 5v. The two diode method will just let the higher voltage input be the power source like you said, so just use a higher voltage wall adapter and if that fails or is unplugged then the batteries will be allowed to power the device automatically. You should actually make sure to use schottky diodes if you plan on running off the batteries for more than intermittent faults so you get the most useful life out of them with this method, something like a 1N5817-1N5819 which is very common and cheap would work nicely if you don't plan on drawing more than an amp with this. Like others have said there are other ways to do this more efficiently but it seems like you shouldn't worry about that at this stage because those methods are more complicated. If you want to learn more the search phrase is "power supply ORing" Why specifically a schottky diode?
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Nov 1, 2019 03:59
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Lower voltage drop. You'll be able to accept a lower battery voltage and be dissipating less heat in the diode
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Nov 1, 2019 04:20
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Foxfire_ posted:Lower voltage drop. You'll be able to accept a lower battery voltage and be dissipating less heat in the diode Yup, schottkys are the way to go.
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Nov 1, 2019 04:39
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Just in case anyone wants to use nRF24L02 boards with digisparks (or ATTiny85s in general), you have to go into the directory where boards are installed and delete the digispark libraries for SPI and RF24 and use the ones out of the library manager. So (for example) the RF24 GettingStarted example starts with "#include <SPI.h>" and "#include "RF24.h"". Replace both those lines with "#include <RF24.h>" and it compiles cleanly for attinys. The new RF24 library has defines in it for attiny SPI using the USI.
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Nov 3, 2019 03:52
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I'm in the process of making a controller with a teensy. The default joystick thing only supports six axes, and I need 7. So I've been trying to modify the USB files to add in the rX and rY axes. I spent the last couple days learning about the USB spec I guess and modifying what teensyduino comes with. I've figured out the USB packet, mapped out the descriptor bytes, filled all the bytes up, and everything I understand should work. But it just doesn't. It's just one of those situations where I change one thing and suddenly it gives me errors and warnings completely unrelated to what I just did. Or I have no idea if the change I made works because windows cached the old version and I don't know if it's broken, or just isn't refreshing. I know that the number of axes I want is possible because I can program it with MMJoySetup with the axes I want and the axes all show up in joy.cpl. But I want to put some more logic into this than it just being a generic USB controller. As far as I can tell, I can't do that with MMJoySetup. Looks like someone already made a modified usb thing but it's for teensy 3.x which is probably what I should have bought instead of the teensy++ 2.0. I guess a smarter person than me would just call it quits, pay the 30 bucks for the teensy 3 and move on, but I want to defeat this thing. It's just frustrating that I'm able to figure out on my own all the things that have tutorials, but the parts that I don't understand at all are apparently not explained anywhere on the internet.
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Nov 5, 2019 06:40
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If you haven't found this thread, it's pretty useful. There's also this one specific to the 2.0. Long story short, it's absolutely possible to use the 2.0 for a bunch of axes, you just need to change the HID descriptors. When I get home to my desktop I'll try to find the files I changed and what I had to do to get my Teensy working properly.
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Nov 5, 2019 15:46
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