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dougdrums
Feb 25, 2005
CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

D. Ebdrup posted:

what's cool about it is that the US law-enforcement and three-letter agencies never attack tor itself, and every single idiot who's been busted for doing illegal poo poo on tor has been tracked down by very well-established and -known attacks which show how terrible at OPSEC they are (or how hard OPSEC is)
Not quite the Tor network, but said three letter agencies have been known to use zero days targeting Firefox/the Tor browser, for the better.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857883
Using JavaScript was the opsec fuckup in this case tho

E: I'm hella slow, guess it wasn't a zero day.

Rufus Ping posted:

this isn't true

even if you don't count exploiting TBB as "attacking tor itself" (because they're actually firefox vulns even when novel), the 2014 RELAY_EARLY attack on the tor network proper was funded by the FBI

(i maintain a relevant list here)

dougdrums fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 14, 2019

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BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009




Rufus Ping posted:

this isn't true

even if you don't count exploiting TBB as "attacking tor itself" (because they're actually firefox vulns even when novel), the 2014 RELAY_EARLY attack on the tor network proper was funded by the FBI

(i maintain a relevant list here)

dougdrums posted:

Not quite the Tor network, but said three letter agencies have been known to use zero days targeting Firefox/the Tor browser, for the better.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=857883
Using JavaScript was the opsec fuckup in this case tho

E: I'm hella slow, guess it wasn't a zero day.
Huh, that's really neat - will have to put some time into reading up on these attacks at some point between christmas and newyears, I think.

rjmccall
Sep 7, 2007

no worries friend
Fun Shoe

D. Ebdrup posted:

would secure boot loader functionality, which the freebsd standard loader has, help with preserving signed-pointer relocations?

no it’s kindof an independent thing. it’s not really security engineering, it’s just basic toolchain engineering: somebody has to design a way to represent a signed pointer in global memory in elf and then write patches to elf assemblers, linkers, loaders, etc. to honor them

D. Ebdrup posted:

did you see https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1335237 ? CheriBSD, a fork of FreeBSD consisting of about ~100 commits worth of diffs to make it run on CHERI, will hopefully not end up being that

i am something of a cheri skeptic; there’s a lot of hardware/memory overhead and it still doesn’t protect against certain kinds of vulnerability

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009




rjmccall posted:

no it’s kindof an independent thing. it’s not really security engineering, it’s just basic toolchain engineering: somebody has to design a way to represent a signed pointer in global memory in elf and then write patches to elf assemblers, linkers, loaders, etc. to honor them
well i've passed it on to some people who work with arm and the toolchain, so we'll see.

rjmccall posted:

i am something of a cheri skeptic; there’s a lot of hardware/memory overhead and it still doesn’t protect against certain kinds of vulnerability
well, nothing is a panacea, that's for sure

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

yeah the nsa to dea parallel construction pipeline has been known about for years

quote:

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to “recreate” the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant’s Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don’t know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.
...
The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise the unit, including the FBI, CIA, NSA, Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Homeland Security. It was created in 1994 to combat Latin American drug cartels and has grown from several dozen employees to several hundred.
...
“Remember that the utilization of SOD cannot be revealed or discussed in any investigative function,” a document presented to agents reads. The document specifically directs agents to omit the SOD’s involvement from investigative reports, affidavits, discussions with prosecutors and courtroom testimony. Agents are instructed to then use “normal investigative techniques to recreate the information provided by SOD.”

A spokesman with the Department of Justice, which oversees the DEA, declined to comment.

But two senior DEA officials defended the program, and said trying to “recreate” an investigative trail is not only legal but a technique that is used almost daily.

A former federal agent in the northeastern United States who received such tips from SOD described the process. “You’d be told only, ‘Be at a certain truck stop at a certain time and look for a certain vehicle.’ And so we’d alert the state police to find an excuse to stop that vehicle, and then have a drug dog search it,” the agent said.

After an arrest was made, agents then pretended that their investigation began with the traffic stop, not with the SOD tip, the former agent said. The training document reviewed by Reuters refers to this process as “parallel construction.”

The two senior DEA officials, who spoke on behalf of the agency but only on condition of anonymity, said the process is kept secret to protect sources and investigative methods. “Parallel construction is a law enforcement technique we use every day,” one official said. “It’s decades old, a bedrock concept.”

A dozen current or former federal agents interviewed by Reuters confirmed they had used parallel construction during their careers. Most defended the practice; some said they understood why those outside law enforcement might be concerned.

“It’s just like laundering money - you work it backwards to make it clean,” said Finn Selander, a DEA agent from 1991 to 2008 and now a member of a group called Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, which advocates legalizing and regulating narcotics.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

double post because I was reminded of this absurd example where the dea fake a car crash and a car theft just so they could lie and hide the real reason they wanted to search the car:

quote:

An egregious example of this law enforcement tactic occurred in 2004 when, through intercepted phone calls and their own subsequent surveillance, the DEA discovered that Ascension Alverez-Tejeda was transporting drugs from Los Angeles to Washington state in his car. To search the vehicle without revealing the phone calls as their original source, DEA agents set up an elaborate ruse.

Alverez-Tejeda and his girlfriend were stopped at a traffic light. As the light turned green, the car in front of them started to move and then stopped quickly. Alverez-Tejeda braked in time, but a truck rear-ended him. As Alverez-Tejeda inspected the damage, police arrived and arrested the truck driver for drunken driving. Officers instructed Alverez-Tejeda and his girlfriend to drive their car to a parking lot, leave the keys in the car, and sit in the police cruiser for processing. Just then, a car thief jumped into Alverez-Tejeda’s car and drove off. Police recovered the car, obtained a search warrant, and found cocaine and methamphetamine.

Other than Alverez-Tejeda and his girlfriend, every person involved in this piece of theater was a DEA agent or local police officer: the person driving the car in front of Alverez-Tejeda’s, the “drunk” truck driver, even the supposed car thief. While a federal judge ruled that the DEA hoax violated Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure, an appeals court overturned the ruling and described this abuse of Alverez-Tejeda’s constitutional rights as “relatively mild.”

Bulgakov
Mar 8, 2009


рукописи не горят

jfc I hadn’t read of that example

mystes
May 31, 2006

Trabisnikof posted:

Other than Alverez-Tejeda and his girlfriend, every person involved in this piece of theater was a DEA agent or local police officer: the person driving the car in front of Alverez-Tejeda’s, the “drunk” truck driver, even the supposed car thief. While a federal judge ruled that the DEA hoax violated Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure, an appeals court overturned the ruling and described this abuse of Alverez-Tejeda’s constitutional rights as “relatively mild.”
If that's relatively mild I don't want to find out what a several abuse of constitutional rights looks like. (Something like using your surveillance capabilities to blackmail a judge into giving you the verdict you want?)

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

you don't have to blackmail Republicans into ignoring the law, they'll eagerly do it for you

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
the dude was guilty so clearly it was fine to violate his constitutional rights. maybe you should try not being a criminal if you want due process :smug:

Lain Iwakura
Aug 5, 2004

The body exists only to verify one's own existence.

Taco Defender
i like that journalists talking about infosec ask good questions

https://twitter.com/ShadowBankerCEO/status/1205603083415379974

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

Soricidus posted:

the dude was guilty so clearly it was fine to violate his constitutional rights. maybe you should try not being a hispanic if you want due process :smug:

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009




Lain Iwakura posted:

i like that journalists talking about infosec ask good questions

https://twitter.com/ShadowBankerCEO/status/1205603083415379974
look, someone's gotta ask the hard-hitting questions

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Lain Iwakura posted:

i like that journalists talking about infosec ask good questions

https://twitter.com/ShadowBankerCEO/status/1205603083415379974

but does he know what #include is?

Powerful Two-Hander
Mar 10, 2004

Mods please change my name to "Tooter Skeleton" TIA.


Trabisnikof posted:

double post because I was reminded of this absurd example where the dea fake a car crash and a car theft just so they could lie and hide the real reason they wanted to search the car:

ocean's 11 but it's the police

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Lain Iwakura posted:

i like that journalists talking about infosec ask good questions

https://twitter.com/ShadowBankerCEO/status/1205603083415379974

smh, they have so much to learn from next gen hacker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






In the general case I think it's more successful to attack the hidden service, and pivot to the clients with some browser exploit than to deanonimize Tor as a whole.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

rjmccall posted:

ptrauth includes some builtin functions for sign/auth, but for the most part you don't use them as a programmer; what you generally do is use something like the __ptrauth qualifier to opt in to stronger signing than the default abi rule for a particular pointer. like if you have a hand-rolled v-table (incredibly common in c code), you'd put a different __ptrauth qualifier on each function pointer field, and then another qualifier on the v-table pointer field in your object type. the abi instability doesn't affect explicit uses of that qualifier, it just means that if you dig around in the language implementation (e.g. if you cast blocks to struct Block * and read fields out), what you see with the current compiler might not be what you'd see in a future compiler as the abi evolves

but no, there's no way to use any of this yet in an app. it's all upstreamed (just to the apple llvm fork, not yet to the root llvm repository), so i think you can try it out, and there might be a preview toolchain available. however, the store will reject binaries with an arm64e slice or which use the armv8.3 instructions in the arm64 slice

yeah, handrolled vtables (which we have some of despite being c++...) were what i had in mind, but i guess i'll wait for it to be officially available

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Lain Iwakura posted:

i like that journalists talking about infosec ask good questions

https://twitter.com/ShadowBankerCEO/status/1205603083415379974

it's pronounced tracer-t

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

yes i know someone already posted the video i don't care :colbert:

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

the next generation will call it trace-retweet

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Trace-yeet

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Shame Boy posted:

it's pronounced tracer-t

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Trabisnikof posted:

double post because I was reminded of this absurd example where the dea fake a car crash and a car theft just so they could lie and hide the real reason they wanted to search the car:

Duh, criminals with foreign sounding names do not have constitutional protections, that's only for the american white-collar criminals.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Shame Boy posted:

really? my wife was on it (prescribed) for a bit and it was fine. didn't really, like, do anything, but it was fine... is it a long-term use thing?

I was on it for years because it worked better for me than adderall, especially in terms of side-effects. the worst part was just switching back and forth between modafinil and ar- when my insurance company got bribed back and forth. I honestly can’t recall any meaningful side-effects until I was well beyond the recommended dose, and even then I was just a bit anxious. I knew a number of people who were on it long term and everyone seemed to agree that it was a pretty perfect medication experience. doesn’t even interfere with sleep for 99% of people.

whatever was wrong with dude’s modafinil takers might not have been because of the modafinil

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Lutha Mahtin posted:

absolute garbage and you were a shithead to more than 2 people so you aren't even trying here
the only thing im confused about is who's the third person i was a shithead to? i quoted 2 posts, explained 2 posts. did i sideswipe someone on the way?

BangersInMyKnickers
Nov 3, 2004

I have a thing for courageous dongles


tong-ed again

Mr.Radar
Nov 5, 2005

You guys aren't going to believe this, but that guy is our games teacher.
A couple of secfucks from the local news:

https://twitter.com/StribBiz/status/1206374384757346305

https://twitter.com/MPRnews/status/1206754635903574016

Blockade
Oct 22, 2008

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/eaphr8/a_dropbox_account_gave_me_stomach_ulcers/

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007




:rudebox:

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
lol at storing data in expensive enterprise dropbox. everyone knows it’s more cost effective to split it across your devs’ personal icloud and onedrive accounts

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost

Soricidus posted:

lol at storing data in expensive enterprise dropbox. everyone knows it’s more cost effective to split it across your devs’ personal icloud and onedrive accounts

I'm legit envisioning someone writing a middleware arbitrator to shard data over arbitrary free-tier storage services.

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost
Like the s3 gateway for ceph but free tier onedrive.

abigserve
Sep 13, 2009

this is a better avatar than what I had before
I like how it's not just the data, which would be one stupid but logical mistake , but rather the entire app including the only VCS, somehow.

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
yeah the source code belongs in sharepoint

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

by the sex ghost
guys I got it.

free onedrive > middleware arbitrator > s3 API > s3-fuse > mongodb

eventually consistent as gently caress

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



Methanar posted:

guys I got it.

free onedrive > middleware arbitrator > s3 API > s3-fuse > mongodb

eventually consistent as gently caress

This made me twitch so hard I almost broke my neck

Bulgakov
Mar 8, 2009


рукописи не горят

Proteus Jones posted:

This made me twitch so hard I almost broke my neck

the beauty of it all is some lazy mongodb config means the database will be open to the public internet at large and after someone on a darknet market forum has downloaded it all and put it up for sale it will still be a bunch cheaper than having bought proper services

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

Bulgakov posted:

the beauty of it all is some lazy mongodb config means the database will be open to the public internet at large and after someone on a darknet market forum has downloaded it all and put it up for sale it will still be a bunch cheaper than having bought proper services

galaxy brain: at least we have an offsite backup

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Bulgakov
Mar 8, 2009


рукописи не горят

Vomik posted:

galaxy brain: at least we have an offsite backup

:yeah:

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