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Uncle Wemus posted:Sorry for the dumb question but is Greivous supposed to be like foreshadowing for Vader or something like that? I interpret it that way. The cough really ties it in
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Jan 25, 2020 01:34
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ungulateman posted:maul is angry at the jedi Also Mauls anger, Dookus regal attitude and Grievous being a mechano-man
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Jan 25, 2020 01:39
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Theyre the Sith of Christmas Past, Present, and Future
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Jan 25, 2020 01:49
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Grevious is definitely a pilot program for Vader. Obi can finish off grevious but not vader bc he is a racist. He uses the "more machine now than man" line on Luke to dehumanize his old brother/son. This of course doesn't play once Luke has a robot hand
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Jan 25, 2020 01:54
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here's my obi wan show pitch: it's police squad, but in space, and Ewan MacGregor is the Leslie Nielsen character e: oj is still norbert in it, obviously. zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 01:55
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To repeat what I've said before and what was said upthread, the key difference between Disney star wars and the MCU is that, at the end of the day, nobody really cares enough about the MCU to notice the seams popping. Like, people like the MCU, sure, but actual comics nerds don't make up a noticeable percentage of the base, and most people aren't really invested past the base "sure, I'll go watch this big blockbuster movie" level. There just isn't the same per-person energy there as star wars, a series infamous for how much the fans wild out. If you actually break down the MCU, all of the problems the sequel trilogy has are prefigured in it - ROS walking back TLJ is even predicted by how Age of Ultron just casually undoes the entire plot of Winter Soldier so it can use the old status quo. Obvious rewrites, plot threads being established and dropped, tonal dissonance and terrible punch-up, elaborating on things that don't really need elaboration, all of it is there. The key difference is that whereas most people's investment in the MCU is "yeah okay, sure," people invested in Star Wars are invested as gently caress in Star Wars. People grew up with these movies, these characters, these stories, and they have deeply ingrained ideas of how they're supposed to go, and that hypervigilance tunes them in to the sloppy filmmaking and dodgy franchise-buolding they weren't keyed in enough to notice in the MCU. , If you look at the real comics heads, the people who actually do have deep investment in marvel, they made very similar complaints about Endgame et al as you're seeing from RoS now, and that's not a coincidence.
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Jan 25, 2020 01:56
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Ingmar terdman posted:Grevious is definitely a pilot program for Vader. Obi can finish off grevious but not vader bc he is a racist. He uses the "more machine now than man" line on Luke to dehumanize his old brother/son. This of course doesn't play once Luke has a robot hand Maul, Dooku, and Grievous are all proto-Vaders. Palpatine has an established M.O.
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Jan 25, 2020 01:57
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Comic book nerds are also extremely familiar with all of the dumb poo poo that can happen in huge franchises like bad retcons, editorial influence, creators disagreeing with other creators, fan backlash, fans becoming writers, etc.
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Jan 25, 2020 02:21
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Ingmar terdman posted:Grevious is definitely a pilot program for Vader. Obi can finish off grevious but not vader bc he is a racist. He uses the "more machine now than man" line on Luke to dehumanize his old brother/son. This of course doesn't play once Luke has a robot hand But Vader is technically more machine man, I think. Vader's actual flesh and blood is head + torso and everything else is robot parts. When you do the math on body mass composistion, its gotta be around 50/50
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Jan 25, 2020 02:29
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your humanity is not determined by how few robot parts you have. (this is a key part of why midichlorians are a sign that the jedi are dumb!)
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Jan 25, 2020 03:15
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ungulateman posted:your humanity is not determined by how few robot parts you have. Look at this loser who doesn't play Shadowrun.
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Jan 25, 2020 04:21
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Pigbuster posted:Maz’s bar really stuck out to me with this. Rather than be in a city it’s just sitting alone out in the wilderness. I guess everyone drives home drunk. It’s a very good example of terrible design, because the basic concept of Maz’s bar is “space truck-stop” - with the additional details being that it’s 1000 years old (predating the Republic), and used exclusively by low-level criminals. [That’s according to the script - although we should note that Disney does not release the actual scripts. The officially-released scripts are reverse-engineered from the completed films.] Nothing about the design conveys these points - while details like the statue in front and the fact that it’s a crappy stone temple imply that this thing is significantly older than we know. What the design actually conveys is that Maz is way older than 1000 years, was worshipped as some kind of oracle or goddess, and just ‘recently’ converted her temple to an informal restaurant because she was bored or something. There’s a grain of an interesting concept here: a low-level pagan deity who, for lack of followers, goes into buisiness for herself. And, in fact, Maz is so low-level and obscure that she’s escaped any Imperial attention over the last several decades - which means she is also so inoffensive as to have never challenged them. We can presume that Maz was changed from an oracle to ‘merely’ a popular restaurant manager was one of the last-minute rewrites. But, in any case, the issue is that this backstory is much less important to the final film than more pertinent questions like: where does the food come from? Who’s cooking? How much do things cost? Those are basic things instantly conveyed by Lucas in his films (see: Dex’s diner), and are vitally important because they tell us how these characters relate to the rest of the galaxy. That’s to say: how does Maz’s bar fit into the Republic economy? Why is there this massive clientele of space criminals? Etc.
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Jan 25, 2020 05:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s a very good example of terrible design, because the basic concept of Maz’s bar is “space truck-stop” - with the additional details being that it’s 1000 years old (predating the Republic), and used exclusively by low-level criminals. I've seen the "pagan diety working for itself" on Supernatural (where it was done way better than here). As for the space criminals, it's the Outer Rim. The only people traveling around there are heavily guarded corporate freighters, the First Order, the Resistance, the desperate and the rear end in a top hat criminals that prey on the desperate and try to prey on the freighter. Of those groups, none but the criminals frequent Maz's place.
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Jan 25, 2020 09:20
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Bogus Adventure posted:Disney, make Seinfeld in Star Wars, you cowards! "Rancor hands!" "Watto is getting upset!" "No blue milk for you!" "Yoda yoda yoda."
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Jan 25, 2020 09:38
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McCloud posted:Also Mauls anger, Dookus regal attitude and Grievous being a mechano-man Maul: ferocity Dooku: cunning Grievous: machine
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Jan 25, 2020 13:05
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:To repeat what I've said before and what was said upthread, the key difference between Disney star wars and the MCU is that, at the end of the day, nobody really cares enough about the MCU to notice the seams popping. I don’t think this is it. I guess it’s true that Star Wars fans are more likely to care about continuity, but the new Star Wars has consistently done worst in places like China where there’s no nostalgia for the original. The sequel movies are just bad on their own merits. If anything the fandom and obsession over the older movies is the only thing that kept the sequel trilogy alive. If you didn’t have massive name recognition and tons of people already invested, The Force Awakens would just be a flop with no sequels.
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Jan 25, 2020 13:34
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Guy A. Person posted:Even then there's this weirdness where by explaining Han's use of 'parsecs' so it 'makes sense' in real world astronomical terms, the original dialogue is now less clear: The new info makes it so he's kind of still bullshitting(the Falcon is fast... if you need a quick route through an obstacle course), so I'm ok with it
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Jan 25, 2020 15:26
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The problem is that Lucas Kasdan, JJ abrams et al didn't approach Star Wars as a setting in which to tell stories, but as a set of tropes meant to invoke the emotional feel of the original. Everything in the sequel trilogy exists to mimic so element of the original trilogy, because to the TFA writers, what makes a Star Wars story isn't a galaxy with hyperspace lanes and a mystical connection called the force, but a group of plucky protagonist rebels fighting against ersatz Nazis with some mysterious shadowy necromancer at the helm. It's like if someone read a cliff's notes of the first 3 movies and wrote a checklist of things that needed to be in their fanfiction. The MCU movies at least are just taking loose plot points from the enormous pile of canon stories, but Star Wars has no canon anymore, all it has is the rough plot outline of the first 3 movies, to riff on forever. It doesn't feel like real stories, it feels like one of those schlocky sci-fi movies that come out trying to ape big productions to trick idiots into buying the DVD.
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Jan 25, 2020 15:41
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ungulateman posted:your humanity is not determined by how few robot parts you have. (this is a key part of why midichlorians are a sign that the jedi are dumb!) The midichlorians are used to determine how strong someone is with the Force, not how human they are
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Jan 25, 2020 16:19
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Everyone posted:As for the space criminals, it's the Outer Rim. The only people traveling around there are heavily guarded corporate freighters, the First Order, the Resistance, the desperate and the rear end in a top hat criminals that prey on the desperate and try to prey on the freighter. Of those groups, none but the criminals frequent Maz's place. Hang on; none of that is shown (or even explained) in the movie. Also, Maz's bar is specifically not in the Outer Rim. FN is trying to reach the Outer Rim (which, we are to understand, is a lawless place, far from the conflict, where people can 'disappear'). Maz's bar is implied to be in (or near) a place called "The Western Reaches". SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 17:27
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2house2fly posted:The midichlorians are used to determine how strong someone is with the Force, not how human they are Of all the Jedi I have encountered in my travels, Yoda was the most human.
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Jan 25, 2020 17:51
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It's really weird how there is not a town or city next to Maz's bar. It's just in a forest with nothing near it.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:03
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Did she inexplicably join the resistance between VIII and IX? I recall that she was in IX but have no recollection of a single thing she did or said.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:13
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I forget, does Maz's space truck stop have a parking lot?The Little Death posted:It's like if someone read a cliff's notes of the first 3 movies and wrote a checklist of things that needed to be in their fanfiction. That's why I compare Episode IX to Starcrash. EXCEPT! The main obstacle for Star Wars ripoffs is lack of money. Here, the obstacle is the micromanagement that comes part and parcel with the practically unlimited budget.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:30
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Keeping maz alive past TFA is even weirder than keeping Phasma alive. Her centuries old castle-bar is in ruins, her sword and sorcery talk is done, it's really strange that she didn't basically have the same death as Saw Gerara. Also it's pretty funny that she's a pirates of the caribbean robot in 9. Sequels are weirdly concerned about keeping everyone around when the first six have supporting characters weave in and out of the films. On one hand, Tarkin is killed off in the first one because they weren't anticipating a sequel perhaps, so Hux is sort of splitting the difference between having a character role crossed with Piett's being in multiple films and ultimately getting killed. But the sequels are like...having Lobot show up at the battle of endor or something. Del Toro's character of course the exception
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Jan 25, 2020 19:39
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Halloween Jack posted:I forget, does Maz's space truck stop have a parking lot? Sort-of; there are dozens of old pavestone'd areas around her lake that have been repurposed(?) as landing pads. Jewmanji posted:Did she inexplicably join the resistance between VIII and IX? I recall that she was in IX but have no recollection of a single thing she did or said. Yes, and your memory is accurate; she doesn't do anything.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvafvTnji-Y&t=131s
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Jan 25, 2020 21:58
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That should be canon.
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Jan 25, 2020 21:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Hang on; none of that is shown (or even explained) in the movie. Maz's bar seems to be in the "Hosnian system" as they all have a view of Hux blowing up Coruscant.  Halloween Jack posted:I forget, does Maz's space truck stop have a parking lot? SuperMechagodzilla posted:Sort-of; there are dozens of old pavestone'd areas around her lake that have been repurposed(?) as landing pads.   Paved centuries ago, currently covered in wood chips?
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Jan 25, 2020 21:59
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Maz's only role is to deliver expository dialogue, so they're keeping her around to play the Cryptkeeper/Uatu role for future franchise products.
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Jan 25, 2020 22:34
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wyoming posted:Maz's bar seems to be in the "Hosnian system" as they all have a view of Hux blowing up Coruscant. Speaking of this, Coruscant/Hosnian is located in the Core but Starkiller Base is in the Unknown Regions. Based on what we see in the film, whatever Starkiller Base is firing is definitely traveling sublight so it should take an eternity to... quote:The people stationed at the base called the dimension through which the phantom energy beam traveled "sub-hyperspace", and this method of delivering the payload was near-instantaneous across vast distances. And he deleted the tweet https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/677919736873684992 The handwaviest of handwaves
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Jan 25, 2020 23:17
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The writers just forgot how big space is
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Jan 25, 2020 23:20
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It's a provocative idea, the notion that everyone is aware of this atrocity the way Obi-Wan was aware of the destruction of Alderaan. And it's even conveyed visually! They just didn't do anything with it, or develop it any further, or even mention it again.
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Jan 25, 2020 23:24
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The Little Death posted:The writers just forgot how big space is  Same thing in his Star Trek movies; the Enterprise whizzes to wherever in the galaxy the plot requires in a few minutes. (And Spock gets from the shuttlebay to the bridge by turbolift faster than OG Scotty or O'Brien could have transported him.)
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Jan 25, 2020 23:32
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Spock watches Romulus get blown up from Vulcan with his naked eye. Abrams just doesn't understand how space works.
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Jan 25, 2020 23:57
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Simplex posted:Spock watches Romulus get blown up from Vulcan with his naked eye. I was gonna mention this, lol. But ehh, whatever. Neat visual.
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Jan 26, 2020 00:20
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Bongo Bill posted:It's a provocative idea, the notion that everyone is aware of this atrocity the way Obi-Wan was aware of the destruction of Alderaan. And it's even conveyed visually! They just didn't do anything with it, or develop it any further, or even mention it again. imagine the existential dread of a planet destroying beam of energy ticking toward planets full of billions of people as the republic scrambles to evacuate and mount an attack on starkiller base. the first film should have ended with starkiller firing, the 2nd film shows the response, the third film covers the destruction of the weapon-planet. nope we do nothing new with star wars.
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Jan 26, 2020 00:33
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Re: "they didn't understand real physics" The other possibility is that storytellers aren't interested in appeasing NDT types when composing fantasy
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Jan 26, 2020 00:33
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Blood Boils posted:Re: "they didn't understand real physics" It's not like it takes an astrophysics degree to understand that for you to see something from a planet with the level of detail shown, it would have to be pretty close by. I guess they didn't care about appeasing that niche group of nerds, people who have ever looked up at night.
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Jan 26, 2020 00:42
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Star Wars has never realistically dealt with the size and scope of space. The consensus best movie in the series handwaves both space and time. As I have said before, Star Wars functions on what Bakhtin calls "adventure time". Things are as near or far as they need to be for drama and excitement.
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Jan 26, 2020 00:59
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