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Present tense and/or second person can feel a little gimmicky and unnecessary. You start to read something that's written that way and find yourself thinking "Is this person flaunting conventional writing styles for a reason or just for attention?" But...eh...after a couple of pages it starts to feel normal and you forget about it, so it doesn't really matter. I enjoyed the entire Divine Cities trilogy, even though looking back I'm not sure if it would be any better or worse if it was written in the past tense. I think there's also something to be said for terse, shorter stories that use the present tense and second person to good effect, throwing you into the action and into the shoes of the characters. It's really worked well for some "Oh poo poo, what if you found out you were actually an android?" stories, and some "What are the full social implications of virtual reality when you really think about it?" short stories that I've read.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:31
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Captain Monkey posted:You might enjoy The Steerswoman series. It's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's got some elements of that and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  StrixNebulosa posted:!!! I'm...really not sure how to feel about this, because while I generally love CSF's work, and This Alien Shore is near the top of the list, the last time she did a sequel to one of her standalones that didn't really need a sequel (The Wilding) it was...disappointing. So I really want to be excited about it -- and now I need to reread TAS -- but I'm not.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:51
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ToxicFrog posted:
I was in the same boat but imho TAS has a bigger setting that could use more exploration, so I'm hopeful again.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:55
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I see no reason to think of present tense and second person POV as anything more than tools in a writer's kit. Some stories–as another example–benefit from richly woven exposition while others ought to be more bare bones, some stories value the omniscient perspective while others drip-feed mystery. We can certainly prefer one over the other on a personal level, but I don't like the idea that one should be considered gimmicky. That seems needlessly limiting, and it's better to abandon that perspective.
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Apr 2, 2020 04:06
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For the record I prefer writing in present tense because it feels more immediate than past. I'm closer to the characters and the story. Also it's kind of weird to me that past tense has become so dominant in published fiction. It makes sense - people use it so they fit in with what they read - but present tense just feels better to me.
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Apr 2, 2020 04:15
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I think present tense works well in combination with first person to make it clear than it's basically a transcription of the narrator's relevant thoughts as the events happen, rather than them somehow remembering the details well enough to write it all down afterwards. But this is probably more a personal prejudice of mine than anything.
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Apr 2, 2020 04:40
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I was able to grab some books the weekend before my county's library system closed but uh, I didn't expect I'd read through the third Foreigner trilogy in the first week, and the other stuff I've picked has mostly turned out less engaging than I expected. The Raymond Chandler short story collection I got is cool though. I can certainly see where he was coming from with "They pay brisk money for this crap?" when comparing it to contemporary SF prose like Asimov and company.
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Apr 2, 2020 06:20
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There seems to have been such a shift towards present tense over the last few years (not just in SF&F), that it's not even notable any more. Just a normal stylistic choice. It does mean if don't like it for whatever reason you'll be missing out on a lot of books.
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Apr 2, 2020 12:29
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Past tense is deeper but slower, it gives you more room to wander into recollection and association. Present tense is shallow but rapid, it's more immediate and thin-sliced on the moment.
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Apr 2, 2020 14:10
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StrixNebulosa posted:!!! The writtten-much-later sequel to In Conquest Born was a way worse book so I probably won't hold out too much hope EDIT: Ah I see this was covered
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Apr 2, 2020 14:43
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Pray for me - I bought the 10000 page malazan omnibus. I own them all in paper form, but gently caress me if I'm going to read paper books again. As an aside, I finished the Powder Mage trilogy. I bounced off the first one a bit a while back, but really enjoyed it this time around.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:25
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Any time I read a book in second person I keep expecting to see "if you do ___, turn to page ___" at the bottom of the page.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:34
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gvibes posted:Pray for me - I bought the 10000 page malazan omnibus.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:17
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General Battuta posted:Past tense is deeper but slower, it gives you more room to wander into recollection and association. I wish more books played with this for effect, with carefully considered switching of tenses, but most writing advice I’ve seen tells people, “Stick to one, dammit.” Probably because tense switching is usually accidental, not considered.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:21
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Stuporstar posted:I wish more books played with this for effect, with carefully considered switching of tenses, but most writing advice I’ve seen tells people, “Stick to one, dammit.” Probably because tense switching is usually accidental, not considered. my current endlessly incomplete novel has three viewpoints and one of them is present because the character is an idiot who can't think about the future
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Apr 2, 2020 21:34
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sebmojo posted:my current endlessly incomplete novel has three viewpoints and one of them is present because the character is an idiot who can't think about the future I think Marlon James did the same thing in A Brief History of Seven Killings, and it was cool
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Apr 2, 2020 22:01
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sebmojo posted:my current endlessly incomplete novel has three viewpoints and one of them is present because the character is an idiot who can't think about the future
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Apr 2, 2020 22:53
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Leviathan Wakes (Expanse #1) by James SA Corey - $3.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047Y171G/ Here's an awesome website where you can check price history on kindle books. https://www.ereaderiq.com/
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Apr 2, 2020 23:33
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I am so, so grateful that I was able to drop Crown of Stars and read Crossroads instead. Kate Elliott writes very well, but the brutality in Crown of Stars was such that I would read a chapter and come away heart-sick, over and over. This is not to say that Crossroads isn't brutal in its ways, but there's a core of hope in it instead of how grinding Crown of Stars was. I think it also has to do with the different cultures, too - it felt like every single point of view in Crown of Stars was of a character who had little to no agency, due to how binding their role in society was. Medieval Germany with the feudal system is so tightly binding - and then the author focused on the lower ones in that society, those sworn to become monks (often against their will) or servants or women. It was evocative and made me feel like I was living a Crusader Kings 2 story with fantasy elements, but devastating. (Yes, I know the setting is fantasy europe so germany ain't germany, but c'mon, it's germany. being invaded by lizard-gremlin people.) This is without going into how painful the slavery/rape/mindbreak sequence was, where the heroine is broken by the death of her father, and then forced into slavery due to the local priest spinning her father's books as having been "stolen", and so she has to sell herself to make up the debt. And then the priest proves himself to be a monster. That was one of the hardest sequences I've ever read, and when he showed up in the second book I felt a real sense of fear. I never finished the second book, despite being curious about where it was all going, but... at least, now I certainly don't have the fortitude for it. Meanwhile I'm 270 pages into the first Crossroads, and despite doing three tough things - killing a pov character, depicting a conspiracy corrupting a society so it's ripe for something worse, and putting another pov character into an arranged marriage - there is, somehow, a strand of hope. This is only the beginning. There's an answer to each thing: I was spoiled on the first one, that said character is revived later due to magic because I read the back of the second book, and as for the other two - the lady in the arranged marriage fell in love with him because he was kind, respectful, and taught her to be his equal (or, rather, that it was okay to be his equal, as his culture has different expectations from hers) - and then the entire trilogy is about solving the conspiracy. Our main characters are either working on it or unknowingly marching towards it. I don't know where the story is going, and I know things will get worse, but somehow this book doesn't grind me down like Crown of Stars does. And it's only a trilogy, not seven giant books.
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Apr 3, 2020 03:18
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Can anyone recommend black women authors who have done fantasy? My girlfriend said she would specifically want some swords and dragons skyrim/game of thrones type poo poo (what would you call that??), which rules out a lot of people ive been looking into like octavia butler.
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Apr 3, 2020 06:18
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NK Jemisin
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Apr 3, 2020 06:19
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Jv jones cavern of black ice is vg gritty ice and fire style fantasy, she's a woman though not black
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Apr 3, 2020 06:59
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withak posted:NK Jemisin Her. Definitely the most influential black woman writing fantasy (or SF) these days.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:22
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Maybe Tomi Adeyemi's Children of Blood & Bone? It's fantasy but young adult and only has two books of the trilogy out so far.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:38
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Maybe something by Nnedi Okorafor? She does sci-fi mostly but it's hard to tell with stuff like Who Fears Death. e: You probably couldn't pass Marlon James as a woman, right?
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Apr 3, 2020 09:20
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Can anyone recommend black women authors who have done fantasy? My girlfriend said she would specifically want some swords and dragons skyrim/game of thrones type poo poo (what would you call that??), which rules out a lot of people ive been looking into like octavia butler. withak posted:NK Jemisin If your girlfriend doesn't like literally everything this woman writes then I don't know what to tell you. She's amazing. The Broken Earth trilogy was incredible.
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Apr 3, 2020 11:49
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Broken Earth is absolutely incredible but if she's specifically said she wants swords and sorcery and not stuff like Octavia Butler. Broken Earth is post-post-post apocalypse science-fantasy about a sentient earth trying to throw off humanity, and genetically-engineered stone-wizards. Like, that's much more in line with Octavia Butler (or Gene Wolfe or Usula Le Guin or any of those more experimental 70s/80s SFF writers) than GRRM. Like, Jemisin is a WoC and she's very very good but it doesn't feel like a good recommendation for what's being asked.
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Apr 3, 2020 12:23
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Yeah i might just start Broken Earth (and some octavia butler) myself since what ive seen about it from yall and my own research makes it seem really really interesting and then see if my girlfriend's taken in by the Inheritance trilogy. Ive been trying to help her find reading material that will hook her during this quarantine, she's very much a gamer/nerd type who loves witcher/skyrim/fallout/the early seasons of game of thrones but really wants to find stuff that's written by women of color featuring women of color. I'm sure some of the stuff that isn't exactly "classic european medieval fantasy" might still interest her, she was mostly just talking about reading something with archers and swords and political intrigue and magic and so forth.
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Apr 3, 2020 12:52
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Like, Jemisin is a WoC and she's very very good but it doesn't feel like a good recommendation for what's being asked. I think her 'Dreaming Moon' books are a lot more up the asker's alley.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:16
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Seems to me that a PoC writer who was any good would be ress likely to crank out yet another drat version of fantasy not-Europe and more likely to dig into myths and folklore from outside that area. Like Nnedi Okorafor for example.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:21
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Broken Earth was influenced by Wheel of Time (particularly the...lol...magic system) so I don’t think the recommendation is as far off as you might think. No dragons. It’s good! Rebecca Roanhorse is writing post-apocalyptic / Shadowrun style fantasy with magical earth spirits, set on Navajo land in the Southwest. The writing is iffy but the stories are reasonably fun.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:35
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Groke posted:Seems to me that a PoC writer who was any good would be ress likely to crank out yet another drat version of fantasy not-Europe and more likely to dig into myths and folklore from outside that area. Like Nnedi Okorafor for example. maybe she'll be interested in the Inheritance or Dreamblood series, or Broken Earth. ill also see about getting her hands on Trail of Lightning maybe.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:43
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Would The Icarus Girl by Helen Oyeyemi count? Akata Witch by Nnedi Okorafor? Children of Blood and Bone by Tomi Adeyemi? Olondria by Sofia Samatar? You can probably dig around and find something good if you go to http://www.africansfs.com/home as well
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Apr 3, 2020 13:54
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Yeah this makes sense, it's almost a counter intuitive quest i put yall on though i appreciate all the good tips...it'd be easy if there was like, a non white george rr martin type who wrote less rapey and less hosed up clearly-written-by-a-dude type poo poo. Yeah, this is a rough call. Wheel of Time is very clearly written by a white dude but it at least has female and non-white characters who pass the Bechdel test. There's spanking and leashes at various points but it's definitely the "Game of Thrones, but less rapey and hosed up" option. One option is probably LeGuin's Earthsea series if she hasn't read it. LeGuin was white but her characters are pretty consistently not so.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Earthsea is a good call, it was intentionally written as fantasy that featured POC. She could just read Tombs of Atuan which has a female POC protagonist.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:25
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Olondria by Sofia Samatar?
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Apr 3, 2020 14:41
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buffalo all day posted:Earthsea is a good call, it was intentionally written as fantasy that featured POC. She could just read Tombs of Atuan which has a female POC protagonist. Er, no it doesn't. The Kargs are explicitly white.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:10
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If we're allowing white people writing POC, Kate Elliott's Crossroads trilogy is full of brown people of varying shades, all with interesting cultures of varying influences. Also, giant eagles. Her Spiritwalker trilogy is similar, with white-washed covers but brown people inside. CJ Cherryh's the Paladin is about brown people and asian societies, and she was never happy with the white-washed cover. Michelle Sagara West is not white (I believe) and she writes epic fantasy as well as really cool urban fantasy with again, diverse cultures. I'd highly recommend all of the above authors, especially since she wants fantasy adventure stuff.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:17
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Jedit posted:Er, no it doesn't. The Kargs are explicitly white. Gah I knew Ged was a POC, I just assumed Tenar was too!!!!!!
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Apr 3, 2020 15:56
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Can anyone recommend black women authors who have done fantasy? My girlfriend said she would specifically want some swords and dragons skyrim/game of thrones type poo poo (what would you call that??), which rules out a lot of people ive been looking into like octavia butler. You can try to find something in this thread https://twitter.com/nkjemisin/status/1221132342762319872?s=20
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Apr 3, 2020 17:48
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