Mithaldu posted:

You do this, but with a tiger.

DrGreatJob posted:

Within the next 10 days, we'll hit the point where more people die everyday from Coronavirus than died in 9/11, with more total deaths than the Korean War.

In the next 20, we'll tie the Vietnam war for total deaths, at 60-70k.

In 2 months, we'll get around World War 1, at around 120k deaths.

And by the end of this, we could reasonably hit 400k deaths, around the same as the US casualties from World War 2.

nullEntityRNG posted:

Honest question, how actually effective and scalable is this drug. The data I've seen is just a small sample size coming from China and a TON of anecdotal evidence.

rotinaj posted:

So I just want to bitch about my work situation. I’m in a northeastern state, and we are under a shelter at home order, but essential workers can go to work. I work for a company that makes medical products, but my entire facility is devoted to a product used in fertility medicine. I make stuff that has a 80 day expiration date, and the world won’t get back to normal enough for normal fertility doctors to be running again in that time.

The corporation that owns us is insisting that we may even need to increase production numbers. I’m hoping they will realize sometime this week that they should stop asking me to risk my goddamn life to make a product nobody will ever use before it goes bad.

Hazo posted:

I think that’s all it is, just anecdotal but nothing official, but someone mentioned it to Trump and his drug addled brain latched onto it and his idiot worshippers have started using it as a political talking point.

D-Pad posted:

Fertility docs are still doing their thing. That poo poo is extremely expensive and some methods stopping and starting over is a big deal and couples would be out a ton of money. That being said I would agree that it should not be labeled essential.

Hazo posted:

I think that’s all it is, just anecdotal but nothing official, but someone mentioned it to Trump and his drug addled brain latched onto it and his idiot worshipers have started using it as a political talking point.

Mithaldu posted:

other people posted:

We had to clean our own apartment this weekend and it sucked. Like we didn't even know what half the bottles of soap/chemicals we found were for lol. I really think it is time we start relaxing the restrictions on movement; people can't live like this.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I’m headed to the doctors now. I have never been this sick before. I’m in the back of a car with a mask on and it’s basically like that “you’re gonna be ok!” Scene in reservoir dogs. I’m loving scared. I have been sick before but this is bad.

ThermoPhysical posted:

Despite all of my efforts to try and NOT catch this virus, I'm definitely going to catch it. My sister keeps constantly coming over, constantly bringing her adopted daughter. Constantly asking for favors because she doesn't have a printer nor does she know how to use a computer. She just left McDonald's before coming over. She has no mask, no gloves, nothing on herself or her daughter.

Her daughter has one kidney due to birth defects and she has COPD due to smoking.

I wish the libraries were open because then they'd go there and stop coming here.

Meanwhile, I have asthma, my roommate has a compromised immune system, and my mother is elderly and thinks that family should be able to come over no matter what because "they're family and it's okay and we might need their help one day so we should help any time".

Another one of my nieces was just hospitalized with shortness of breath. They gave her a COVID-19 test but no results yet. My sister picked her up from the hospital today and took her home before going to McDonalds and coming here.

I'm definitely going to catch this virus and it'll be because of this lovely family.

Piggy Smalls posted:

Scary times. I get scared about any pain my body feels. Currently have a sore throat. Mild cough but could be I’m catching a cold or something worse. My anxiety is at a peak level these days. I had a heart attack 5 years ago and my heart is poo poo. I don’t think I’d survive this illness if I get it.

HoAssHo posted:

Does anyone else feel like a bougie piece of poo poo getting groceries delivered? Why am I making this person risk their life so I can have almond milk? Like I'm too good to get my own groceries. ugh. What if I tip really excessively to the point where it's almost a little patronizing? Will that make it okay?

Vakal posted:

Telsa Cola posted:

Huh,weird.

Telsa Cola posted:

Huh,weird.

QuarkJets posted:

The part of Hawaii I live in closed the parks awhile ago. I drove to the grocery store yesterday and didn't see anyone in those parks, I'm happy to say.

Platystemon posted:

The U.S. could reasonably surpass the Civil War.

I expect more Americans to die to this than have died in all wars America has ever fought.

I said come in! posted:

I am almost afraid to ask, but what is Hawaii doing about its homeless population?

Telsa Cola posted:

Huh,weird.

Uncle Lloyd posted:

Oh come on, we're at 10k dead right now and you expect us to have a million fatalities? What do you think is going to make the US such a huge outlier that we have a months- or year-long peak of infection rates and deaths when every other country in the world has had a 1-2 week peak and then a slowing in the rate. We're already seeing that here. This is going to be a grim week or so, but then the fatality rate is going to slow as it tracks with the new infections, same as everywhere else, there is no reason to expect otherwise. This is a crisis for sure, but there is absolutely no cause to be making up disaster porn about it.

bird with big dick posted:

What do you think that birds dick looks like

bird with big dick posted:

What do you think that birds dick looks like

bird with big dick posted:

What do you think that birds dick looks like

rotinaj posted:

well, that makes me feel slightly better. I figured they'd have all closed up shop to avoid being a source of exposure, getting exposed, diverting medical supplies from lifesaving measures, or being distracted trying to help with Covid patients.

Maybe some of the stuff I'm spending my time making will be useful.

Uncle Lloyd posted:

Oh come on, we're at 10k dead right now and you expect us to have a million fatalities? What do you think is going to make the US such a huge outlier that we have a months- or year-long peak of infection rates and deaths when every other country in the world has had a 1-2 week peak and then a slowing in the rate. We're already seeing that here. This is going to be a grim week or so, but then the fatality rate is going to slow as it tracks with the new infections, same as everywhere else, there is no reason to expect otherwise. This is a crisis for sure, but there is absolutely no cause to be making up disaster porn about it.

D-Pad posted:

To be fair, they probably are closed for the most part in New York, but I know for a fact some are still going in areas that haven't been hit hard yet.


I'm not saying he is right about a million deaths, but what exactly do you think happens after that 1-2 week peak? If we relax the shelters in place we immediately start working back towards the same peak. Do you think the American public will be ok continuing as we are now for up to 18 months before we get a vaccine? It's unrealistic to think that is possible for many different reasons.

Those other countries only had a 2 week max peak because, like America is doing now, most people didn't take it seriously until the peak started. Once they did the clock started until it plateaued 2 weeks later because of the lag time. I don't have much faith that at some point in the next 1-2 months the American public, egged on by the political and wealthy class, won't just say YOLO and go back to business as usual as our health care system melts down.

Flattening the curve is great, but it doesn't mean we beat this anytime soon. If 40%-70% of the population gets this as many experts predict we could easily have a million dead even with a health care system that isn't overwhelmed.

D-Pad posted:

Flattening the curve is great, but it doesn't mean we beat this anytime soon. If 40%-70% of the population gets this as many experts predict we could easily have a million dead even with a health care system that isn't overwhelmed.

Gologle posted:

Oh my God please go back to talking about the virus

Frank Sidebottom posted:

Honest question. Had Trump told anyone to take chloroquine or that it is the cure? Or is it more along the lines of "it's promising, and we're going to speed up trials on it"?

Zugzwang posted:

Sadly this is correct. Last I checked, the case fatality rate sadly doesn't seem to be well below 1% as some had hoped. There's still the question of how many asymptomatic carriers we're not accounting for, but if the true case fatality rate is 0.5% (about 5x worse than influenza) and half the US population (~330 million) gets infected (=about 165 million infections), we're looking at over 800k dead just from this. We're already past the point in some places where more people are dying of COVID-19 than all other causes combined per day. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

The only way we avoid a bodycount that high is with some combination of social distancing to slow the spread, a vaccine, and actual effective treatments. If we had effective treatments, it might be okay if everyone gets it. If we can have a vaccine that keeps people from getting it, then treatments aren't necessary (for the people who don't get it -- still necessary for those who do!). Until we have one or both of those things, slowing the spread is all we can do.

Vakal posted:

Zugzwang posted:

Sadly this is correct. Last I checked, the case fatality rate sadly doesn't seem to be well below 1% as some had hoped. There's still the question of how many asymptomatic carriers we're not accounting for, but if the true case fatality rate is 0.5% (about 5x worse than influenza) and half the US population (~330 million) gets infected (=about 165 million infections), we're looking at over 800k dead just from this.

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

This figure also doesn't count how many people who are dying in their homes silently.

Gripweed posted:

oh yeah I hope everybody is ready for the stories about nursing homes getting just straight up abandoned and everybody inside left to die and only discovered in like June, because that's gonna happen

quote:

Ok, so there’s a lot that I wanted to touch on in this video that I didn’t really get the chance to. This video presents a more normalized view of neighborhood wet markets, which I think’s a solid starting point for discussion… but a lot of nuance was lost. So I’ll try my best to make it up here.

1. There’s still a bit of a mystery surrounding the origins of COVID-19. While we now know that the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan wasn’t the ultimate source, if I was a betting man I’d still put my money on it originating somewhere within the farmed-wildlife-industry supply chain here (with maybe one long shot chip on ‘improper handling of waste material’ at the nearby coronavirus research station in Wuhan). But it took a decade for them to figure out where SARS came from, so I wouldn’t necessarily hold my breath. So for the purposes of this, let’s assume that it did indeed come from the farmed-wildlife industry here.

2. Before we get down to brass tax, it needs to be noted that in February the government banned basically the entirety of the farmed-wildlife industry. To us that’re living here in China, that’s old news. There was a lot of commotion about it on social media. There’s big red banners put up that we shouldn’t eat weird animals. If you look at the electric sign behind me at 3:30 one of the things that it’s communicating is that wild animals are a no-go. Again, this’s just some basic knowledge that a lot of people in the West that’re forming opinions about the issue seem to… not know. So there you go. Farmed wildlife is banned. So no more giant salamander, no more bamboo rat. C’est la guerre, but I think it had to be done.

3. Now, a lot of people tend to dismiss that, and say ‘the Chinese government banned the wildlife trade after SARS’, but here it is again. But there’s a distinction. After SARS, the government banned the wildlife trade – this was (likely) due to the farmed-wildlife trade. Now, being upset that the farmed-wildlife industry was even a thing would be, I think, a relatively reasonable position to hold. If these media blowhards said “we demand an apology for the existence of farmed-wildlife, it was banned far too late”, I say ‘lol good luck’ (CCP ain’t big apologizers) but I wouldn’t view that as an outside of reality kind of demand. But the farmed-wildlife trade is an… interesting nut.

4. Now, about actually eating wildlife. The Chinese diet is a lot more… diverse than the American diet when it comes to protein sources, that’s true. I remember once I asked a buddy of mine why he was moving back to Guangzhou after working a number of years in NYC, and he quickly retorted, “I don’t want to eat boneless, skinless, chicken breast my whole life”. That’s not entirely fair, but there’s an element of truth to that too. Hell, there’s some people I know in the USA that find chicken thigh to be too ‘gamey’. Here… stuff like rabbit, frog, snake, turtle, and goose are on the menu. I love food, so I personally find that diversity to be a good thing.

5. But then you get all these fucks that go around social media referring to people in China as ‘the bat eaters’. Is bat a common menu item? No. Giant salamander? No. Other animals within the whole farmed-wildlife trade? No. You do get some daredevils, you do get some people that get some pleasure from eating very ‘different’ stuff. It exists, for sure. The GMM dudes eat some ‘exotic’ food, ditto with the Best Ever Food Review Show guy, same with Andrew Zimmerman. The equivalents of those personalities also exist here – perhaps a bit moreso, but the difference would be mostly one of degree. But they’re not really the primary driver of the farmed-wildlife trade.

6. To be frank, the biggest driver of the farmed-wildlife trade was TCM. Now, I have a… very highly developed opinion on the subject of traditional Chinese medicine. [opinion from someone that doesn’t know what they’re talking about] Put simply, I don’t ‘believe’ in it… but I believe it works, mostly because placebos work. And TCM appears to be a collection of all the factors that appear to maximize the placebo effect (e.g. expensive and rare placebos seem to be more effective than cheap ones, placebos are more effective if administered by an expert, placebos are much more effective if invasive like acupuncture… etc). And hey, if someone can actually get better from a placebo, that seems a lot better than drugs or surgery! [/opinion from someone that doesn’t know what they’re talking about] But there’s a cost there, because some – not all, but some – TCM uses some exotic animals in their tonics or whathaveyou. So farming the wild animals seemed to be a decent middle ground between the TCM practitioners that wanted their ingredients and the conservationists that were worried about endangered animals. Farm the animals, everyone gets what they want, until of course some novel zootonic disease arises…

7. Of course, in China like in many cultures, the line between ‘food’ and ‘medicine’ can get a bit blurry.

8. So now we get to the markets themselves. While some of what you see online about Chinese wet markets are forgeries, and most are certainly cut to maximize shock value… there definitely were some markets that sold live, farm-raised wild animals for consumption (whether for food or medicine). We’ve traveled, we’ve seen ‘em. They existed. It’d be lying to say otherwise. However, those kinds of markets are, by and large, special wholesale markets (sometimes under the umbrella of seafood markets) that sell to restaurants and such – NOT your normal, run-of-the-mill neighborhood wet market.

9. The criticism of the normal run-of-the-mill wet markets generally fall under three categories: (1) they’re not refrigerated (2) they feel icky to a Westerner and (3) they carry live animals (mostly chicken and fish), killing and cleaning them on the spot for you. Let’s first agree to ignore complaint #2, yeah? Just because some sheltered little American snowflake like Tucker Carlson thinks a dead frog is weird doesn’t make it weird. Complaint #1 is more reality-based and anyone that living here knows that wet-markets in the late morning can uh… get a certain smell to them. That’s why most people go before 10am. That’s later than most English teachers with a DSLR wake up on weekends, which’s why you’ll see some less-than-informed expats also rag on wet markets.

10. Complaint number three is the reality-based one. First off, we’ve killed chickens and fish on camera here before. If you eat meat, the process from animal --> meat shouldn’t give you any gross-out factor: if it does, you should honestly consider if vegetarianism might be a better lifestyle choice for you (seriously). But while there doesn’t seem to be any problem with doing this with fish, chickens are a tougher question. The bird flu pandemic (which started in either the US or Mexico, by the way), caused a lot of markets throughout Asia to question whether the practice of keeping live chickens at the market is a good idea. In Singapore, Hong Kong, most major cities in Mainland China (Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Beijing, etc etc)… that practice is now banned. The foodie in me was kinda disappointed when that happened (it’s nice to know you’re getting the freshest chicken)… and I’d personally rather see vendors just get proper protective equipment over a straight ban, but hey. I get it. That said, there’s still some markets in mainland China that keep live chickens, for sure (IIRC they can’t keep the chickens there overnight though, not sure what difference that makes).

11. Lastly, I feel like now matter your political persuasions… it should be patently obvious that many of these politicians are pointing towards China to deflect blame. If the virus had been a quick moving one, if it swept around the world without much warning at a blink of an eye… then I could certainly understand some of the blame-game there. But here’s the way I look at things. If you sit there for months on end calling this whole thing “nothing more than a bad flu”? If you were shaking your head at the ‘overly authoritarian’ measures China is using to combat the virus? If after the entire city of Wuhan goes on lockdown you sit there for two months with your dick in your hands doing zilch to prepare? You lose your right to pass the buck.

D-Pad posted:

I'm not saying he is right about a million deaths, but what exactly do you think happens after that 1-2 week peak? If we relax the shelters in place we immediately start working back towards the same peak. Do you think the American public will be ok continuing as we are now for up to 18 months before we get a vaccine? It's unrealistic to think that is possible for many different reasons.

Frank Sidebottom posted:

Honest question. Had Trump told anyone to take chloroquine or that it is the cure? Or is it more along the lines of "it's promising, and we're going to speed up trials on it"?

Uncle Lloyd posted:

Oh come on, we're at 10k dead right now and you expect us to have a million fatalities? What do you think is going to make the US such a huge outlier that we have a months- or year-long peak of infection rates and deaths when every other country in the world has had a 1-2 week peak and then a slowing in the rate. We're already seeing that here. This is going to be a grim week or so, but then the fatality rate is going to slow as it tracks with the new infections, same as everywhere else, there is no reason to expect otherwise. This is a crisis for sure, but there is absolutely no cause to be making up disaster porn about it.