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Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004



I think only mods can see that thread now.

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Tres Burritos
Sep 3, 2009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGnyaR2B7s&t=245s

I got as far as, "And then I used a rag to clean the leadscrew while the lathe was running" and I noped right out.

I'm honestly really glad that people share their shop / tool injury stories, I feel like it really helps people be more mindful, but drat I have a low tolerance for blood / gore.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Jaded Burnout posted:

I think only mods can see that thread now.
That's a bummer. Did I miss something that happened in there? I just grabbed the URL from my bookmarks.

For those of you that missed it, it was an A/T by a guy who works for a dice importer (think Dungeons and Dragons dice) that had a delightful undercurrent of a goon who was obsessed with their lack of testing if all of their dice were truly random. And 20 other goons getting increasingly silly about calipers, density tests, distribution of glitter within the dice, etc. A true classic.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


stealie72 posted:

That's a bummer. Did I miss something that happened in there? I just grabbed the URL from my bookmarks.

For those of you that missed it, it was an A/T by a guy who works for a dice importer (think Dungeons and Dragons dice) that had a delightful undercurrent of a goon who was obsessed with their lack of testing if all of their dice were truly random. And 20 other goons getting increasingly silly about calipers, density tests, distribution of glitter within the dice, etc. A true classic.

He requested it be removed due to confidentiality concerns.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

Jaded Burnout posted:

He requested it be removed due to confidentiality concerns.

:tinfoil: so the dice aren't random :tinfoil:

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


taqueso posted:

:tinfoil: so the dice aren't random :tinfoil:

I've... said too much.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Jaded Burnout posted:

He requested it be removed due to confidentiality concerns.
Ah, that makes sense. Too bad because it was one of the quietly funniest threads on SA in a long time.

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

Tres Burritos posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGnyaR2B7s&t=245s

I got as far as, "And then I used a rag to clean the leadscrew while the lathe was running" and I noped right out.

I'm honestly really glad that people share their shop / tool injury stories, I feel like it really helps people be more mindful, but drat I have a low tolerance for blood / gore.

There was no blood or gore.

He does bring up a valuable lesson in medical preparedness. Everyone needs to have a first aid kit that is more than just burn cream and bandaids, as well as the knowledge to use it. Most fire/EMT will offer free classes (at least did before).

Tres Burritos
Sep 3, 2009

JEEVES420 posted:

There was no blood or gore.

A very low tolerance.

The one interesting thing I learned from my only "I think this needs stitches" incident was that you totally shouldn't try to cover cuts with paper towel. The nurse was very pissed about that. So now I have a big ol' box of gauze in the shop.

I. M. Gei
Jun 26, 2005

CHIEFS

BITCH



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Which is why all of your measurements are wrong.

Look: if you take a measurement from A to B with any device, I don't care how accurate it is, there will be some measurement error because humans are fickle and frail. Let's say it's 1/32" for the sake of argument. Now let's say you have a 20' long board that you want to mark off every 2'. If you use the tape measure approach, where you hook the measure on the end of the board and just walk along marking every 2', every single one of your marks will be +- 1/32". That's fine.

If you take your ruler, put it at the end of the board, measure 2', and mark, that first mark will be +- 1/32". If you then take that same ruler and measure from your first mark to the second mark, that second mark will be +- 1/16". And the third will be +- 3/32". And so on until at the last mark you'll be +- 5/16".

That of course assumes that your start point for the ruler exactly matches the end point for the last ruler-placed location. That's hard to do though so probably you're getting another 1/32" at least of error right there, which means your cumulative error at the end is +- 5/8".

In short: use a tape measure. You're making this harder than it needs to be.

stealie72 posted:

Seriously. There's a lot of houses that have been built with a tape, a speed square, and a saw.

A trellis does not require NIST-certified measuring tools. And TooMuchAbstraction did a good job of explaining how you're error stacking your way into frustration.

All of us are sitting here like :psyduck: because you are so hyper focused on absolutely the wrong thing, and getting rear end results because of it. You can measure things smaller than the length of a ruler with a ruler. Pretty much full stop. There's a reason most of us have a 12', 16', 25', 30', and 100' tape. Because every time you measure part of something, move your measuring tool, and measure the rest, you introduce error.

Use a goddamn tape measure and a speed square, put a mark every 2 feet along the length, put your speed square against it, mark the width halfway or wherever you want the holes, and drill. You're building a trellis, not a clock.

Edit: if you don't believe us, go take a square and tape and check things that you think are square or of equal length. Your mind will be blown that everything you think is a square or rectangle is some variety of rhomboid or trapezoid. I don't think I have a single actual 90 degree corner in my house.

Alright, I’ll forget the rulers and start using a tape measure. I’ve always had a hard time trusting tape measures for anything requiring accuracy because I never know how far off the hook end is. But yeah, y’all are right, fewer times moving a measuring device around should result in less mistakes.



I have ALWAYS, throughout my entire life, been cripplingly perfectionistic. About everything. From school homework to projects like this one. I get hung up obsessing over little details and if I can’t do something exactly perfect, I tend not to do it at all.

Believe it or not, I actually used to be a lot worse than this. When I was in middle school, I don’t think I finished a single shop project. During the second semester of eighth grade my shop teacher let me use the shop room during lunchtime, alone and unsupervised, so I could catch up on stuff. I also tried to start a vegetable garden in the same part of my yard that this trellis is going in now, but I got so hung up on trying to make the patches for each plant measure perfectly that nothing ever got built or planted. Thankfully I have gotten A LOT better since then, but every now and then stuff like this still happens.

I also have honest-to-god doctor-diagnosed OCD, but I don’t think that’s what this is.

So.......... yeah, hopefully this explains some things.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

I. M. Gei posted:

I’ve always had a hard time trusting tape measures for anything requiring accuracy because I never know how far off the hook end is.
This may help:
You know how the hook end of a tape wiggles a bit? It's specifically designed so that the measurement starts where the metal tape starts, whether the hook is outside of that measurement or inside of that measurement.

The hook is loose within a little oval on the tape so that it will move outwards relative to the tape when you hang the hook on something and then measure, or move inwards when you are butting the hook to something and measuring from there.

This is what Motronic means when he says

quote:

IM needs to put a pause on all of this and do some actual research with books or videos to learn basic techniques and how to use tools.
Go to youtube and watch some videos about "how to use a tape measure" and "using a masonry drill". Watch more than one and ask someone with a clue if you get conflicting advice, but there's a lot of non-obvious technique that can make things very frustrating when you don't know what you're doing.

Squibbles
Aug 24, 2000

Mwaha ha HA ha!

I. M. Gei posted:

Alright, I’ll forget the rulers and start using a tape measure. I’ve always had a hard time trusting tape measures for anything requiring accuracy because I never know how far off the hook end is. But yeah, y’all are right, fewer times moving a measuring device around should result in less mistakes.



I have ALWAYS, throughout my entire life, been cripplingly perfectionistic. About everything. From school homework to projects like this one. I get hung up obsessing over little details and if I can’t do something exactly perfect, I tend not to do it at all.

Believe it or not, I actually used to be a lot worse than this. When I was in middle school, I don’t think I finished a single shop project. During the second semester of eighth grade my shop teacher let me use the shop room during lunchtime, alone and unsupervised, so I could catch up on stuff. I also tried to start a vegetable garden in the same part of my yard that this trellis is going in now, but I got so hung up on trying to make the patches for each plant measure perfectly that nothing ever got built or planted. Thankfully I have gotten A LOT better since then, but every now and then stuff like this still happens.

I also have honest-to-god doctor-diagnosed OCD, but I don’t think that’s what this is.

So.......... yeah, hopefully this explains some things.

At least on a good tape measure the hook end isn't "off" the hook is loose so that it can move the thickness of the hook material. So that if you hook it on something the measurement is accurate as well as if you push the outside o f the hook up against a wall the hook moves in the thickness of the hook so it's still accurate.

e:fb

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED
Also in regards to the perfectionist thing, its important for me to remember how the project will be viewed. You're doing all your work a few inches away whereas you'll be viewing the trellis from 10+ feet you know? Mistakes will be hidden not just by distance but by the plant itself. Learn and move forward. Fear is the mind killer

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

I. M. Gei posted:

Believe it or not, I actually used to be a lot worse than this. .........I also have honest-to-god doctor-diagnosed OCD, but I don’t think that’s what this is.

Everyone who has read this believes it.

We can't help you here to the level that you need help. Your own issues are getting in the way of taking the very good advice you have been given and until those are resolved I don't see how this works out.

Best of luck.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Harry Potter on Ice posted:

Also in regards to the perfectionist thing, its important for me to remember how the project will be viewed. You're doing all your work a few inches away whereas you'll be viewing the trellis from 10+ feet you know? Mistakes will be hidden not just by distance but by the plant itself. Learn and move forward. Fear is the mind killer

This is very important.

Much of my carpentry education was building sets for theatre and the phrase ‘15 feet and stage lighting will fix that’ (not to mention magical scenic artists) gets thrown around a whole lot in that world, and it’s true. Lawns are similar-there are 5mph lawns and there are 50mph lawns-how good they looks depends on how fast the observer is going.

There’s a time for perfection and a time to get it done. It’s the 80/20 rule-20% of the effort gets you 80% of the benefit. Learning when the the extra 80% of effort is warranted is the hard part (it’s electrical work and plumbing).

Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

Perfect is pretty, but done is beautiful.

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

JEEVES420 posted:

There was no blood or gore.

He does bring up a valuable lesson in medical preparedness. Everyone needs to have a first aid kit that is more than just burn cream and bandaids, as well as the knowledge to use it. Most fire/EMT will offer free classes (at least did before).

Alcohol wipes, sutures, krazy glue, gauze, and some tape are all so cheap and so easy to carry with you all the time.
I have this crappy old metal box full of stuff like that I usually keep in my car.


Then again I've also got a couple of CBRN masks in case I'm forced to escape a biological agent attack or nuclear fallout, so maybe I'm just weird.

n0tqu1tesane
May 7, 2003

She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.
Grimey Drawer
Here's a good video on using a tape measure.

https://youtu.be/p-AlTvciSQ8

Essential Craftsman has a ton of good how to videos for various tools.

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore
http://www.domerama.com/fabricating/4v-timber-dome-construction/

quote:

Hubs can sometimes be expensive, especially since you need a large number of them. You can save money by making them yourself but the cuts are almost always “compound cuts”. If you ever used or watched someone using a mitre saw, you noticed the angle of the cut AND the tilt of the blade are both adjustable. This is what we call a compound cut.

http://domekits.sphericalstructures.com/preview_006.htm

quote:

We don't believe there is anything prettier made of wood than the spherical geodesic structure connected with the compound angles cut on the ends. This connection method shows all the geometric angles and done correctly is truly a piece of art.









Do most mitre saws bevel more than 60°? Mine only goes up to 50°.

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED
Nope but you can cut a 30 degree block and get 60 that way. That site and guide is really cool and tempting... Ive always wanted to build one of those out in the woods. Dome sweet dome

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

DreadLlama posted:

Do most mitre saws bevel more than 60°? Mine only goes up to 50°.

Just went to check my standard rear end 10+ year old dewalt job saw. I can do 60 right, but not left.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Motronic posted:

Just went to check my standard rear end 10+ year old dewalt job saw. I can do 60 right, but not left.



Unsure whether the other poster got their terms wrong, but bevel's the tilt not the swivel.

That said, the bosch I have does considerably less than yours, does 47/47º mitre and 45/0º bevel. Is it related to blade size, maybe?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
As long as you can do at least 45 degrees you can do any angle, by flipping the piece over / cutting from the other side.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

As long as you can do at least 45 degrees you can do any angle, by flipping the piece over / cutting from the other side.
Generally with much head scratching, flipping thr board over and around a bunch, and the cutting another one because you hosed up anyway.

Or is that just me?

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.
No, that's the standard operating procedure as outlined on the first page of the manual of every miter saw.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


stealie72 posted:

Generally with much head scratching, flipping thr board over and around a bunch, and the cutting another one because you hosed up anyway.

Or is that just me?

110%, especially when I was doing three-way mitres. Even drawing angles on things didn't always help.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Jaded Burnout posted:

Unsure whether the other poster got their terms wrong, but bevel's the tilt not the swivel.


Lay board flat, lay board against fence. Tomato toamto.

that said, I'm astonished a saw has a range to 60 degrees, I did not know it was a thing. I used to get acute angles by 90-ing the board to the fence, which is a dicey proposition.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Mr. Mambold posted:

that said, I'm astonished a saw has a range to 60 degrees, I did not know it was a thing. I used to get acute angles by 90-ing the board to the fence, which is a dicey proposition.

your acute angel ;-*

Harry Potter on Ice
Nov 4, 2006


IF IM NOT BITCHING ABOUT HOW SHITTY MY LIFE IS, REPORT ME FOR MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HIJACKED
I dunno why everyone is making it harder than cutting a 30 degree block, putting it against the fence, cutting again from the actual side. Of course you can cut boards from the backside but also... 30+30=?

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore
I think that a 30° block of glued 2x6s with a toggle clamp is a good way to go. The big issue is going to be making several dozen of the same cut consistently. A jig is a good idea.

oXDemosthenesXo
May 9, 2005
Grimey Drawer
At its core woodworking is just creative jig design.

JEEVES420
Feb 16, 2005

The world is a mess... and I just need to rule it

oXDemosthenesXo posted:

At its core woodworking is just creative jig design.

woodworking is spending 2 hours making a jig to do a 30 second cut.

oXDemosthenesXo
May 9, 2005
Grimey Drawer

JEEVES420 posted:

woodworking is spending 2 hours making a jig to do a 30 second cut.

It's sorta like painting, all the tricky and tedious stuff is in the prep work. Get that part right and the "real work" goes quickly and accurately.

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

FogHelmut posted:

I've been using a 20v Black and Decker cordless drill for a few years, and its been adequate for just about everything, but then I was drilling 2" holes in a 2x4 and the magic smoke came out along with some magnet bits (brushes?) and its more or less dead.

Couple of questions -
I like what Milwaukee has to offer, but I can't decide if their compact brushless 18v is good enough, or if I should go full overkill and spend on the m18 Fuel line. The fuel is more than double the torque, but my main concern is that it doesn't blow up with heavy use. Any suggestions or recommendations?

Should I be using a bimetal hole saw? Or will a 2" self-feeding bit, or a 2" forstner bit be more efficient? Or even a carbide hole saw just for wood?


Update-

I found an eBay seller with the Milwaukee M18 Fuel drill/driver kit for $115 less than local Home Depot shipped. Funnily enough, it came in a Home Depot box. Drilled all of my holes with only minor drama - the hole saw caught once and the drill rotated and slammed my hand into the adjacent wall. Torque is great. Eight hours later my skin is still red, hoping for a nice purple in the next day or two. I'm glad I spent the money, no regrets.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Does anyone know if anyone makes something like this that isn’t $500?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000DEZO8/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Lol at trying to buy something right now with both ‘face shield’ and ‘respirator’ in the description, and I have one I can borrow for the job at hand (turning pressure treated Pine), but I’d like to have something similar on hand. My normal half face respirator keeps the dust out of my lungs, but it pushes my safety glasses up enough that they let some dust into my eyes. 3m seems to make full face respirators/gas mask things, but that seems a little overkill since all I need to keep out is relatively coarse dust.

Any solutions appreciated!

Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 13, 2020

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Does anyone know if anyone makes something like this that isn’t $500?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000DEZO8/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Lol at trying to buy something right now with both ‘face shield’ and ‘respirator’ in the description, and I have one I can borrow for the job at hand (turning pressure treated Pine), but I’d like to have something similar on hand. My normal half face respirator keeps the dust out of my lungs, but it pushes my safety glasses up enough that they let some dust into my eyes. 3m seems to make full face respirators/gas mask things, but that seems a little overkill since all I need to keep out is relatively coarse dust.

Any solutions appreciated!

Maybe tweak up a full-face welder's shield that would go over your respirator?

FogHelmut
Dec 18, 2003

Probably have a tough time finding one of these

Ferrule
Feb 23, 2007

Yo!
Re: First Aid - you know what's really good to have in a first aid kit/around the shop/on your work truck/etc? Maxi Pads.

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.


I need to sand the paint off of hardwood and also refinish a deck. Does it make sense to rent a belt sander and then buy an orbital for corners and edges? If so, which one?

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


poisonpill posted:

I need to sand the paint off of hardwood and also refinish a deck. Does it make sense to rent a belt sander and then buy an orbital for corners and edges? If so, which one?

Orbital is best on flat planes, and covers more ground than you'd think. Personally I'd use an orbital for the main part of the deck and do the corners/edges by hand. Goes faster than you'd think. You could sub out the random orbital for a belt sander, though I've never used one so I can't comment directly.

I'm happy with my Bosch Professional GEX 125-150 AVE (240V) random orbital but I'm sure many other good ones exist for other brands. Mirka Autonet sanding pads have been a real game changer for me both in reducing clogged pads and improving dust collection.

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Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.



poisonpill posted:

I need to sand the paint off of hardwood and also refinish a deck. Does it make sense to rent a belt sander and then buy an orbital for corners and edges? If so, which one?

Rent an industrial disc floor sander for the deck unless it's Barbie's house.

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