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Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017

Horizon Burning posted:

It doesn't. Ward flat out sucks.

Anias posted:

If true, this is the best reason to not read wildbow the thread can offer.

Wildbow’s best isn’t great.

Truth.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Ward's a total mess and has been from the start. The most fascinating thing about it being posted was watching the worm turn, so to speak.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

The Shortest Path posted:

The companion podcast We've Got Worm/Ward makes the story a lot more enjoyable imho if you listen to it with each week of chapters, but I'm not gonna suggest you catch up on a couple hundred hours of podcast to get more out of a story. :v:

How about the other way around? I stuck with Ward longer than I would have otherwise because I was enjoying the podcast...

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Plorkyeran posted:

How about the other way around? I stuck with Ward longer than I would have otherwise because I was enjoying the podcast...

Yeah Scott and Matt are great. Their other podcasts are really enjoyable too, and the discord community is excellent. I'm playing like three different weekly pen and paper games with folks from there nowadays.

Hell, I spent a few hours playing Path of Exile with Wildbow a couple seasons ago because we were both in the doof private league.

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012
Twig, especially the first half of Twig, is much better than Ward (and everything else by Wildbow, for that matter)

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


I will probably never be able to figure out how making Amy a serial rapist and then resolving that entire plotline with an hour of off-screen therapy sounded like a good idea to WB. Man, Ward was pretty bad.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Sampatrick posted:

Twig, especially the first half of Twig, is much better than Ward (and everything else by Wildbow, for that matter)

while i kinda like worm and ward in their ways (and, uh, individual parts of pact), twig is Genuinely Quite Good

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


I had the most fun reading Twig out of all his stories. Weirdly enough I think the gritty depressing nihilism suited it more than any of his other works, but at the same time I wish it hadn't been so hopeless- slice of life/mad science Friends would've been really fun, and I keep hoping he takes the chance to explore characters and themes beyond "Everyone is sad and things suck."

Lot 49
Dec 7, 2007

I'll do anything
For my sweet sixteen

violent sex idiot posted:

the most recent arc of ward is maybe the best stuff wildbow has ever written so if you like the things he writes it's probably worth catching up

Still not read any of Ward. What is so good about the current arc?

Incidentally I did my monthly check in with the parahumans reddit yesterday and it was the first time I'd ever seen multiple posts of people criticising the story on the first page. Normally it's nothing but praise for Wildbow on there.

Lot 49 fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Apr 11, 2020

Jade Mage
Jan 4, 2013

This is Canada. It snows nine months of the year, and hails the other three.

In Katalepsis news...

Oh. Oh dear. That seems really bad.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Omi no Kami posted:

I will probably never be able to figure out how making Amy a serial rapist and then resolving that entire plotline with an hour of off-screen therapy sounded like a good idea to WB. Man, Ward was pretty bad.

He just really wanted to get it through to the readers that she's not a good person since they just didn't get it, but didn't actually want to go anywhere with it past that. Part of why it was so awkward and bad was because the whole plot line was there purely for metatextual reasons.

Pussy Quipped
Jan 29, 2009

Lot 49 posted:

Still not read any of Ward. What is so good about the current arc?

Incidentally I did my monthly check in with the parahumans reddit yesterday and it was the first time I'd ever seen multiple posts of people criticising the story on the first page. Normally it's nothing but praise for Wildbow on there.

Lmao I just browsed the subreddit and there is a dude on there who is doing some incredible mental gymnastics about Miss Militia’s interlude in Worm. “ Where is she? Why is there a war there? Turkey would never kill children!”

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Plorkyeran posted:

He just really wanted to get it through to the readers that she's not a good person since they just didn't get it, but didn't actually want to go anywhere with it past that. Part of why it was so awkward and bad was because the whole plot line was there purely for metatextual reasons.

"He didn't actually want to go anywhere with it" has probably been the most frustrating thing for me- in spite of all of my dumb complaints, there were a lot of story hooks that I was genuinely interested in- what's up with Kenzie? Where is he going with Damsel's thing? How about those brothers who wanna kill each other? Hey that guy over there is a weird freakazoid mutant tinker, that's probably bad... like, I think there were straight up 10-15 different interesting ideas that were established, sometimes quite effectively, given a bit of focus to get them rolling, and then completely abandoned, or at best wrapped up out of nowhere with a one-paragraph copout 500k words later.

Random Asshole
Nov 8, 2010

violent sex idiot posted:

the most recent arc of ward is maybe the best stuff wildbow has ever written so if you like the things he writes it's probably worth catching up

Very strong disagree here. The twist of "They're going to kill themselves/all parahumans - psyche, no they're not, I just made it seem like that by repeatedly and incorrectly referring to the plan as 'genocide' while concealing information about the plan from the reader in the main character's own internal monologue" is totally unjustified and really cheap writing. If there was some actual justification for it Vic can't think about it because the Simurgh might read her mind or something it might be acceptable, but as it is it just feels like 12.all specifically Vista's death all over again, just hastily retconning something out due to reader reaction and then trying to paper it over with "No, this is how I always planned it, I was just elaborately concealing information from the reader for no reason."

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Pussy Quipped posted:

Lmao I just browsed the subreddit and there is a dude on there who is doing some incredible mental gymnastics about Miss Militia’s interlude in Worm. “ Where is she? Why is there a war there? Turkey would never kill children!”

He's very convinced that the rest of the world spends a lot more time thinking about Turkey than we actually do.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Random rear end in a top hat posted:

Very strong disagree here. The twist of "They're going to kill themselves/all parahumans - psyche, no they're not, I just made it seem like that by repeatedly and incorrectly referring to the plan as 'genocide' while concealing information about the plan from the reader in the main character's own internal monologue" is totally unjustified and really cheap writing. If there was some actual justification for it Vic can't think about it because the Simurgh might read her mind or something it might be acceptable, but as it is it just feels like 12.all specifically Vista's death all over again, just hastily retconning something out due to reader reaction and then trying to paper it over with "No, this is how I always planned it, I was just elaborately concealing information from the reader for no reason."

What I find interesting about this is that this kind of writing, where Wildbow writes a first-person protagonist and withholds information from the reader because he doesn't know how to make it suspenseful or interesting otherwise, goes all the way back to Worm. He did it with Taylor's 'plan' to stick a bug in Lung's eye and knock him out. It just comes out of nowhere and Taylor goes, aha, the plan I was totally thinking about and doing the whole time worked perfectly. What's more is that, even back then, otherwise fervent readers were telling him how cheap the writing was. Given that Worm was his first big work, some jank is acceptable. But I think some variant of this issue crops up in all of his works. The fact that he pulled that 'twist' on the climax of Ward is just bizarre, and the fact that he did it for the same self-admitted reasons as he did for Taylor all those years ago ('I couldn't make it suspenseful if the reader knew what was going on') is really quite tragic.

In the case of Taylor, though, it's funny because the very next chapter has a bit where a character tells Taylor that sometimes people's powers work automatically without their knowledge, but the two things aren't related in anyway.

Random Asshole
Nov 8, 2010

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

What I find interesting about this is that this kind of writing, where Wildbow writes a first-person protagonist and withholds information from the reader because he doesn't know how to make it suspenseful or interesting otherwise, goes all the way back to Worm. He did it with Taylor's 'plan' to stick a bug in Lung's eye and knock him out. It just comes out of nowhere and Taylor goes, aha, the plan I was totally thinking about and doing the whole time worked perfectly. What's more is that, even back then, otherwise fervent readers were telling him how cheap the writing was. Given that Worm was his first big work, some jank is acceptable. But I think some variant of this issue crops up in all of his works. The fact that he pulled that 'twist' on the climax of Ward is just bizarre, and the fact that he did it for the same self-admitted reasons as he did for Taylor all those years ago ('I couldn't make it suspenseful if the reader knew what was going on') is really quite tragic.

In the case of Taylor, though, it's funny because the very next chapter has a bit where a character tells Taylor that sometimes people's powers work automatically without their knowledge, but the two things aren't related in anyway.

I definitely noticed stuff like this happening in Worm, but the two examples I cited feel way more egregious then anything before. Maybe because in most of the earlier cases the deception only lasts for a single chapter, or even just part of one, while these were both multiple-chapter misunderstandings that easily could have been cleared up if the characters just talked about it 'on camera.' Maybe it's just that I don't like characters dying without concluding their narrative arc... which probably means I should stop reading WB stories.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
TWI 7.17 S Patreon: well that was a loving horrific chapter

just punch me in the goddamn face with nonstop queer angst why dont you :smith:

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Omi no Kami posted:

"He didn't actually want to go anywhere with it" has probably been the most frustrating thing for me- in spite of all of my dumb complaints, there were a lot of story hooks that I was genuinely interested in- what's up with Kenzie? Where is he going with Damsel's thing? How about those brothers who wanna kill each other? Hey that guy over there is a weird freakazoid mutant tinker, that's probably bad... like, I think there were straight up 10-15 different interesting ideas that were established, sometimes quite effectively, given a bit of focus to get them rolling, and then completely abandoned, or at best wrapped up out of nowhere with a one-paragraph copout 500k words later.

I thought the way most of these characters are handled is fine. It makes sense that there's never going to be any magic bullet for Kenzie's immense issues with codependency and boundaries, or for Tristan's sort of obsessive stubbornness or Chris's "being a bizarre clone with a programmed imperative" situation. Kenzie has made progress, though with rough points and setbacks along the way, and Tristan is basically a tragedy where he he made a lot of progress but ended up dying (in a way that didn't really bother me beyond it being kind of sad). I'm also confused about what you're talking about with them "wanting to kill each other"; only Tristan ever reached this point and had already mostly dealt with those feelings by the beginning of the series. Chris (I haven't read the last handful of chapters so I can't speak to anything that happened in them) is still struggling with the fact that he has a genuine urge to become "less human" while also having genuine human needs, and acts erratically because of the conflict between these things. I partially agree about Damsel, though the remaining Damsel clone isn't quite one of the main characters so it's not that strange that her whole internal conflict (with wanting to be distinct from Swansong) wouldn't get much focus, and Swansong herself had ended up in a pretty good place by the time she died (she was always probably the most well-adjusted of Breakthrough's members - outside of her freak-outs, which become more sparse as the story progressed, she was doing pretty well.

The one character who I would agree with this about (that you actually didn't mention) is Victoria herself. She just kinda randomly wandered across the shard zone for "family" or something and had an epiphany about there being good things about her relationships/family despite her mostly focusing on the bad.

Random rear end in a top hat posted:

I definitely noticed stuff like this happening in Worm, but the two examples I cited feel way more egregious then anything before. Maybe because in most of the earlier cases the deception only lasts for a single chapter, or even just part of one, while these were both multiple-chapter misunderstandings that easily could have been cleared up if the characters just talked about it 'on camera.' Maybe it's just that I don't like characters dying without concluding their narrative arc... which probably means I should stop reading WB stories.

I think this is an issue difficult to avoid with first-person writing. I'm pretty sure PracGuide does this way more than Worm/Ward, and it's arguably even more jarring there because Catherine will often react in ways that don't seem to make sense given what she knows and is planning (or at least involve weird omissions when she's otherwise doing a lot of exposition about what she's thinking and planning). It doesn't bother me much as long as the "surprise" ends up being something clever/entertaining, though (PracGuide is very good about this, Worm/Ward less-so but still good enough that it doesn't bother me much).

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010
like gently caress me, pirateaba said this was gonna be a happy chapter :smith:

this was not happy. not one bit

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Ytlaya posted:

I thought the way most of these characters are handled is fine. [spoilers]

This might totally just be a YMMV thing that bugs me in particular, but what trips me up is that most of the stuff you described? Those aren't character arcs, they're character concepts. They're almost all interesting setups, but you can't just say "X is afraid of clowns," then much later in the story go "Okay, here is how that fear was/was not cured." If you're going to ask the audience to invest in a character or concept, it should have a proper arc: setup, reinforcement, payoff. A lot of Ward's characters felt more like tabletop character sheets to me- they had a whole complicated backstory that their early chapters went into, but once it was established I felt that they lost almost all inertia. Heck, look at Rain: his whole thing was "I'm a mass murderer who feels bad about it after an alien brain parasite taught me that killing dozens of people in a mall is bad," but what did he do in the story? He was around for a ton of the early chapters that established the Fallen as a threat, he joined his team to fight the Fallen during the raid on their compound... and then went to jail and just kind of stopped doing anything beyond hovering around the periphery and going "Rain was there too" now and then. Every so often he'd go "I sure am sad that the beautiful woman I'm into is sleeping with a nazi" or something, but there wasn't actually a contiguous arc or narrative payoff- he was a nazi, then he wasn't, then the story ended. That's the sort of gripe I have with a lot of stuff- it feels like we're reading campaign notes in a tabletop game that's 80% random encounters.

Noticing how pervasive this is in WB's writing would've probably skunked any of his future work for me even if Ward hadn't had other issues- I get that a web serial will never come close to being as tightly plotted as a tradpub novel written with the assistance of spell check and an editor, but at this point I can't bring myself to think about or get engaged with any new information the stories deliver, because it's as likely or not that anything I get interested in will either be dropped unceremoniously, or resolved out of nowhere.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

A big flaming stink posted:

like gently caress me, pirateaba said this was gonna be a happy chapter :smith:

this was not happy. not one bit


At this point I take happy chapters to mean we aren't losing any more poor goblins or random gnoll knights. This explains so much about Saliss though. .

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012

Omi no Kami posted:

This might totally just be a YMMV thing that bugs me in particular, but what trips me up is that most of the stuff you described? Those aren't character arcs, they're character concepts. They're almost all interesting setups, but you can't just say "X is afraid of clowns," then much later in the story go "Okay, here is how that fear was/was not cured." If you're going to ask the audience to invest in a character or concept, it should have a proper arc: setup, reinforcement, payoff. A lot of Ward's characters felt more like tabletop character sheets to me- they had a whole complicated backstory that their early chapters went into, but once it was established I felt that they lost almost all inertia. Heck, look at Rain: his whole thing was "I'm a mass murderer who feels bad about it after an alien brain parasite taught me that killing dozens of people in a mall is bad," but what did he do in the story? He was around for a ton of the early chapters that established the Fallen as a threat, he joined his team to fight the Fallen during the raid on their compound... and then went to jail and just kind of stopped doing anything beyond hovering around the periphery and going "Rain was there too" now and then. Every so often he'd go "I sure am sad that the beautiful woman I'm into is sleeping with a nazi" or something, but there wasn't actually a contiguous arc or narrative payoff- he was a nazi, then he wasn't, then the story ended. That's the sort of gripe I have with a lot of stuff- it feels like we're reading campaign notes in a tabletop game that's 80% random encounters.

Noticing how pervasive this is in WB's writing would've probably skunked any of his future work for me even if Ward hadn't had other issues- I get that a web serial will never come close to being as tightly plotted as a tradpub novel written with the assistance of spell check and an editor, but at this point I can't bring myself to think about or get engaged with any new information the stories deliver, because it's as likely or not that anything I get interested in will either be dropped unceremoniously, or resolved out of nowhere.

i am a broken record and the recorded sound is this - twig didnt have these problems. i still dont understand how ward managed to be such a massive step back.

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Sampatrick posted:

i am a broken record and the recorded sound is this - twig didnt have these problems. i still dont understand how ward managed to be such a massive step back.

I've had multiple conversations with buddies that boil down to both of us going "I dunno man, I just don't know how this happened," because yeah- Worm/Pact/Twig all had their share of problems, but I had fun reading them and rarely felt like I was actively fighting with the story. Heck, I honestly couldn't even tell you what Ward is about- like, Worm is "A supervillain origin story about a bullied girl who gets superpowers," Pact is "A supernatural legal thriller where the lawyers are literally demons and the protagonist didn't know he was making a deal with the devil until the ink was dry," and Twig was "Mad science coming of age story where monstrous experiments become the family they all need."

But Ward? It's made noise about trauma, recovery, forgiveness, and a whole host of other stuff, but I genuinely could not summarize what the heck that story is about.

I know WB writes from the hip a lot and that Victoria was a last-minute substitution for the protagonist, but from what I gather about his original choices (apparently it was between Rain, Damsel, and Amy for most of his planning), it doesn't feel like they would've navigated their way to a more coherent narrative spine than what we got. It's just... like I said at the top, I just dunno what happened, and I've always struggled to explain how a guy who spent 5-6 years consistently churning out simple-but-okay serials ends up making all of the mistakes that led to Ward's issues.

Edit: Also huh, I guess Ward's over.

Omi no Kami fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Apr 12, 2020

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Sampatrick posted:

i am a broken record and the recorded sound is this - twig didnt have these problems. i still dont understand how ward managed to be such a massive step back.

I feel like it makes perfect sense when you examine the path in reception, ratings and so on from Worm to Pact to Twig. Twig might've been Wildbow's work where he was most stretching his creative muscles, but it's also the one with, like, the least readers and least acclaim. No wonder he went back to Worm, really. Wildbow knows what makes money.

Omi no Kami posted:

I know WB writes from the hip a lot and that Victoria was a last-minute substitution for the protagonist, but from what I gather about his original choices (apparently it was between Rain, Damsel, and Amy for most of his planning), it doesn't feel like they would've navigated their way to a more coherent narrative spine than what we got. It's just... like I said at the top, I just dunno what happened, and I've always struggled to explain how a guy who spent 5-6 years consistently churning out simple-but-okay serials ends up making all of the mistakes that led to Ward's issues.
We've talked about this before, but I still think serial writing causes you to stagnate. You learn to write more words and pick up a good work ethic in that sense, but it doesn't really make you write any better. There's simply no time to consider how you're writing or what sort of effect you're aiming to achieve. Especially when you look at Wildbow's own work timetable - avoid thinking about his writing until 48 hours before, then do it in a mad sprint. Ossification might be a better word.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Apr 12, 2020

Omi no Kami
Feb 19, 2014


Milkfred E. Moore posted:

We've talked about this before, but I still think serial writing causes you to stagnate. You learn to write more words and pick up a good work ethic in that sense, but it doesn't really make you write any better. There's simply no time to consider how you're writing or what sort of effect you're aiming to achieve. Especially when you look at Wildbow's own work timetable - avoid thinking about his writing until 48 hours before, then do it in a mad sprint. Ossification might be a better word.

Yeah that's definitely true. I wonder if part if it wasn't also his plain tackling too abstract of a narrative goal. "Taylor gets a power and has a power fantasy" is self-explanatory, as is the Pact legal thing. Twig's mad science gestapo was a solid setting but didn't have that clear unambiguous through-line, and I thought the back half suffered a lot for it. Ward feels almost like he started with the protagonist, some very broad setting notes (the space whales are broken and the cycle is tearing itself apart), and no query statement or unambiguous "This is a story about Victoria and her friends doing X" mission statement.

What really blows my mind is, like, he can't possibly have enjoyed writing Ward- regardless of whether or not they were valid, he was getting tons of criticisms and complaints from the start of Rain's thing onward. If I were him and wrapping Ward up I would've been tempted to dust my hands off and go "Whew, I'm not doing that again," but holy crap- tonight's epilogue chapter straight-up has sequel bait for a third Parahumans thing, which he apparently said he wants to write some day in a recent discord thing.

Plus when you get into the business side, you have some really awful realities of the business- like if I were him I'd take my rear end a long break, unplug, and get as far away from the daily grind as I could for a few weeks or months as my brain recharged... but every single serial author I've ever heard from has said the same thing, that every day you don't post, you're losing readers.

Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017

Kalas posted:

At this point I take happy chapters to mean we aren't losing any more poor goblins or random gnoll knights. This explains so much about Saliss though. .

It was a great chapter that explains a lot and was also pretty depressing, but sometimes life is depressing.

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Ytlaya posted:

I think this is an issue difficult to avoid with first-person writing. I'm pretty sure PracGuide does this way more than Worm/Ward, and it's arguably even more jarring there because Catherine will often react in ways that don't seem to make sense given what she knows and is planning (or at least involve weird omissions when she's otherwise doing a lot of exposition about what she's thinking and planning). It doesn't bother me much as long as the "surprise" ends up being something clever/entertaining, though (PracGuide is very good about this, Worm/Ward less-so but still good enough that it doesn't bother me much).

I can tolerate this in PracGuide because the payoff is consistently good, but it is still one of my top complaints about the story. The PoV character keeping things secret from the reader is always incredibly jarring to me.

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012
if theres one thing i literally dont care at all about in a story, its when the pov character keeps a secret from the reader

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Sampatrick posted:

if theres one thing i literally dont care at all about in a story, its when the pov character keeps a secret from the reader

It's unequivocally a negative thing and it would be better if it didn't happen (and for all my gripes about it, Wandering Inn basically proves that you can get by fine as a web serial without being in first-person), but it just falls under the category of things that bug me but not so much that it prevents me from enjoying whatever I'm reading.

vvv I thought your post above was being sarcastic

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 12, 2020

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012

Ytlaya posted:

It's unequivocally a negative thing and it would be better if it didn't happen (and for all my gripes about it, Wandering Inn basically proves that you can get by fine as a web serial without being in first-person), but it just falls under the category of things that bug me but not so much that it prevents me from enjoying whatever I'm reading.

i do not agree that it is unequivocally a negative thing

blastron
Dec 11, 2007

Don't doodle on it!


PracGuide does less hiding information from its readers and more hiding conclusions drawn from it. Catherine’s a mastermind villain. She needs her just-as-planned moments, and we can’t get that if she explains to the reader exactly what’s going to happen three chapters in advance. (Smart villains do not monologue, after all.)

The way to write characters that are smart is to set up questions that need answering, give the readers all the relevant information that the character has, give them a moment to speculate, and then have the character reveal the answer. So far PracGuide has generally done this well enough. In the current book, there’s a lot of new setting details currently hinted at but not explored, but that’s okay because we didn’t really need to know what the Arsenal was until we actually went there. Now that there’s stakes, we’re given all the information we need about what it is (including details Catherine wouldn’t know, via interludes), and we’re never blindsided by anything that Catherine isn’t also blindsided by.

It’s hard to make a mastermind work in first-person, but PracGuide pulls it off alright.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

blastron posted:

PracGuide does less hiding information from its readers and more hiding conclusions drawn from it. Catherine’s a mastermind villain. She needs her just-as-planned moments, and we can’t get that if she explains to the reader exactly what’s going to happen three chapters in advance. (Smart villains do not monologue, after all.)

The way to write characters that are smart is to set up questions that need answering, give the readers all the relevant information that the character has, give them a moment to speculate, and then have the character reveal the answer. So far PracGuide has generally done this well enough. In the current book, there’s a lot of new setting details currently hinted at but not explored, but that’s okay because we didn’t really need to know what the Arsenal was until we actually went there. Now that there’s stakes, we’re given all the information we need about what it is (including details Catherine wouldn’t know, via interludes), and we’re never blindsided by anything that Catherine isn’t also blindsided by.

It’s hard to make a mastermind work in first-person, but PracGuide pulls it off alright.

Yeah, the "mastermind" stuff in PracGuide is actually genuinely clever most of the time (though I think it has an easier time of it because the "masterminding" generally involves Catherine having a keen understanding of stories, which is naturally going to be easier for the author than something like writing a smart murder mystery).

One thing I realized recently is that Catherine actually has some attributes that usually annoy me in most other stories, but for some reason don't bother me much in PracGuide. Namely, that she almost always wins through a combination of outsmarting her opponents (which often involves "having better instincts about the way their narrative-driven world works") and luck, and she's constantly throwing around quips and being admired by her colleagues/subordinates. The latter still bugs me a little, but I think the story goes a decent ways towards pointing out that this is a common thing to happen with charismatic Named, and there's even a bit of a plot point about Catherine herself being oblivious and/or in denial about the way others perceive her (like how all the rest of the Woe have a mutual understanding that they're all there entirely because of Catherine, while Catherine sort of downplays this herself and wants to view it as a cohort of equals).

PracGuide also has a biased narrator situation similar to Worm's, but (unlike Worm) actually seems to integrate in a way that makes more sense. Taylor is generally not a very good person and has a lot of dumb/bad ideas, but it's true that the actual narrative of Worm mostly just vindicates her. PracGuide does a pretty good job of having Catherine gradually acknowledge and grow from her earlier biases, without being capable of discarding them entirely (which is realistic), and it's pretty unequivocal about what Catherine did with the Lone Swordsman in Summerholm being 100% a terrible inexcusable thing.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Caught up to chapter 6 in Katalepsis. It's not light reading, but once I start, I have a hard time putting it down.

I'm kind with Evelyn on Praem, although I think I'm not supposed to be. Praem just keeps getting creepier.

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA
Yeah Pith is good and I like it !

What time period are we in? Post WW2? Post WW1?

There are submachine guns and supercarriers and planes and cars. (Not jetplanes though?) But the most common weapons in the military are apparently bolt action rifles.

madwhitesnake
Jan 8, 2020

Affi posted:

What time period are we in? Post WW2? Post WW1?

It’s not a one-to-one exact match, but the technology is roughly around the level of World War II. Glad you like it! Thanks for reading!

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Just got caught up to Practical Guide again.

This entire Arsenal plot has actually been real good.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
It's been good, though at the same time I can't help but think that at this pacing Book 6 is gonna be long as fuuuuuuuck to finish off the arc vs the Dead King. Either that or we get a Book 7.

Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA

Kalas posted:

At this point I take happy chapters to mean we aren't losing any more poor goblins or random gnoll knights. This explains so much about Saliss though. .

Yeah that was a seriously good chapter.

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Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

Cicero posted:

It's been good, though at the same time I can't help but think that at this pacing Book 6 is gonna be long as fuuuuuuuck to finish off the arc vs the Dead King. Either that or we get a Book 7.

Yeah, I'm kind of confused about how this Dead King stuff is ever going to be resolved. Keter sounds like the sort of cluster-gently caress that even the allied armies wouldn't be able to invade, and if they did invade they don't even know where the Dead King's actual body (or phylactery or whatever) even is.

I imagine something is probably going to happen such that they don't actually end up needing to go into Keter.

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