Mac Hardware - 5k Supremacy - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Mac Hardware - 5k Supremacy

eames: May 9, 2009

Ok Comboomer posted:

Once you start adding storage and RAM to the lower-tier MBP you�re better off jumping to the $1800 model IMO, if you can afford it. Enough QoL additions to make the extra $200 worth it.

And once you start adding upgrades to the $1800 and get it above like $2400 the 16� immediately starts to become a much better value proposition again.

This kind of upselling is of course meticulously thought out to work across the whole product stack.

If I start to spec out a simple base MBA but I want 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD, I might as well buy the 13" MBP for the better cooling and screen. At that point, with that spec, the 16" with a larger screen, dGPU and better audio isn't much extra. Since I want 16GB/1TB anyway, the eight core CPU model with a better dGPU doesn't cost much more ... you get the idea.

# ? May 10, 2020 14:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 11, 2024 10:54

Binary Badger: Oct 11, 2005; Trolling Link for a decade

The eventual take-apart will show that other than a few components here and there and the keyboard, the 13-inch 2020 rMBP is internally laid out the same as the 2018 / 2019 models.

There's a dedicated Thunderbolt controller on each side, top case still has battery glued to it and includes keyboard, microphone and a bunch of cables where if one those cables gets damaged you have to replace the entire top case..

# ? May 10, 2020 15:45

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

They should make lead shields and sell them as luxury Apple accessories.

# ? May 10, 2020 16:03

Daniel Bryan: May 23, 2006; GOAT

Considering it was the same price to get the base Pro or the i5/512gb Air, I swapped my Air for the new Pro.

# ? May 10, 2020 20:13

Cough Drop The Beat: Jan 22, 2012; by Lowtax

I wonder if the USB-C interference issue affects the 2020 MBA because I'm really not looking forward to having random wifi and Bluetooth problems that don't exist on my 2013 MBP at all.

# ? May 10, 2020 20:50

Godzilla07: Oct 4, 2008

Ok Comboomer posted:

Once you start adding storage and RAM to the lower-tier MBP you�re better off jumping to the $1800 model IMO, if you can afford it. Enough QoL additions to make the extra $200 worth it.

And once you start adding upgrades to the $1800 and get it above like $2400 the 16� immediately starts to become a much better value proposition again.

While the 4TB3 13" MBP in the 16/512 looks like a nice middle ground between the Air and the 16" MBP on paper, my brain may have also decided to make the jump to the 16" MBP once I saw that base 16" MBPs can be had for a hair under $2K on Slickdeals

# ? May 10, 2020 20:57

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

I spent hours last night trying to work out why my SmartHomes stuff just wasn�t connecting to any of my Zigbee devices. The culprit? loving USB 3 hub. Funny how I was reading this thread around the same time and it didn�t click.

# ? May 10, 2020 21:03

hatty: Feb 28, 2011; Pork Pro

I haven�t traveled with it yet but the 16� is not as obnoxiously big as I thought it�d be if the size is holding anyone back. I thought it�d be closer to the old 17� I�m very pleased.

# ? May 10, 2020 21:06

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Godzilla07 posted:

While the 4TB3 13" MBP in the 16/512 looks like a nice middle ground between the Air and the 16" MBP on paper, my brain may have also decided to make the jump to the 16" MBP once I saw that base 16" MBPs can be had for a hair under $2K on Slickdeals

God drat it I really wish they shipped to Canada.

# ? May 10, 2020 21:16

Cough Drop The Beat: Jan 22, 2012; by Lowtax

hatty posted:

I haven�t traveled with it yet but the 16� is not as obnoxiously big as I thought it�d be if the size is holding anyone back. I thought it�d be closer to the old 17� I�m very pleased.

The 16" MBP is slightly thinner and noticeably lighter than a 15" MBP from 2012-2015, let alone a massive behemoth 17" model.

# ? May 10, 2020 21:34

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Yeah I was surprised that the 2019 16� has the same footprint as my 2011 15� and is thinner. Probably considerably less bezel.

# ? May 10, 2020 21:43

MrBond: Feb 19, 2004; FYI, Cheese NIPS are not the same as Cheez ITS

Chris Knight posted:

The original was from 2017:

https://twitter.com/tehwey/status/1257254785562132481

Hasn�t this been basically true for USB 3 since it came out? This is not a new phenomenon and not something that only afflicts macs

# ? May 10, 2020 22:18

Binary Badger: Oct 11, 2005; Trolling Link for a decade

Cough Drop The Beat posted:

I wonder if the USB-C interference issue affects the 2020 MBA because I'm really not looking forward to having random wifi and Bluetooth problems that don't exist on my 2013 MBP at all.

No one has reported this high CPU issue on a 2-port, only 4-port rMBPs 2018 and up so far

The interference issue is separate and more of a third party vendor matter; once I had a user who bought a Sabrent USB 3 hard drive dock who claimed it couldn't keep connected to his Lenovo Yoga; I tried it on a 2016 rMBP with an Apple USB-C to USB adapter and it hooked up fine.

When I plugged it into the Yoga, which had a USB-A port, it mounted for a split second, then flashed a Bluetooth symbol on the screen and then the drive unmounted on its own.

I switched it with a Vantec NexStar dock and the same drive stayed mounted and I was able to perform a backup.

I tried switching cables but the same thing happened, the Sabrent unmounted and the Vantec stayed connected, so yeah it may be a chipset / shielding issue.

Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 10, 2020

# ? May 10, 2020 22:29

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Godzilla07 posted:

While the 4TB3 13" MBP in the 16/512 looks like a nice middle ground between the Air and the 16" MBP on paper, my brain may have also decided to make the jump to the 16" MBP once I saw that base 16" MBPs can be had for a hair under $2K on Slickdeals

No. Nono nononono ohoho no nonono nope.

You�re not making me make that choice twice in a row, Apple. Nope.

I am definitely going to size down with my next MacBook purchase.

Not up. Down. I don�t care that I can apparently get 16�, six cores, and a dGPU for a similar price to the 13�.

Please, Apple. For fucks sake do not make me buy a larger computer than I want Apple, because you drat well know I will when you start waving all those meaningful performance gains at me.

# ? May 10, 2020 23:33

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Edit: Accidental double post, for emph-rear end-is

Content to make the best of it: I imagine that this is how people like Bob Morales end up with like 4 MacBook Pros, an iMac, and two iPads.

You set out to get a 13� and then you see that the 16� is available for like $200 more when you start adding on features.

So you buy the 16� but then you start craving the portability of the 13�, which is kinda what you were after in the first place. So then a few months or a year go by until you notice that refurb Airs are on sale and you start doing the mental math...

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 23:40 on May 10, 2020

# ? May 10, 2020 23:33

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Ok Comboomer posted:

Edit: Accidental double post, for emph-rear end-is

Content to make the best of it: I imagine that this is how people like Bob Morales end up with like 4 MacBook Pros, and and iMac and three iPads

Hey I only have two MBPs right now and one ipad

# ? May 11, 2020 00:18

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

MrBond posted:

Hasn�t this been basically true for USB 3 since it came out? This is not a new phenomenon and not something that only afflicts macs

Yeah USB 3/BT interference is an old thing, but not necessarily widely known. It's the high CPU/overheating thing depending on side that's new, not sure why the old BT thing got brought up.

Ok Comboomer posted:

Edit: Accidental double post, for emph-rear end-is

Content to make the best of it: I imagine that this is how people like Bob Morales end up with like 4 MacBook Pros, an iMac, and two iPads.

You set out to get a 13� and then you see that the 16� is available for like $200 more when you start adding on features.

So you buy the 16� but then you start craving the portability of the 13�, which is kinda what you were after in the first place. So then a few months or a year go by until you notice that refurb Airs are on sale and you start doing the mental math...

Luckily I'm cheap and just bought the MBA when that came out, with no desire for the MBP upon seeing the one I was waiting for was $1800 to start.

Although thinking about my stuff I realized I never sold/traded in my iPad mini 4 after I got the 5 a while ago.

# ? May 11, 2020 04:34

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

I�m just annoyed the Mac mini can�t run the new display. For me, the ultimate set up would be a mini, 30 inch display on a vesa mount, a 16 for the road and a 12.9 iPad Pro for coffee shops... all that should run me what? 10 grand?

# ? May 11, 2020 08:30

Lazyhound: Mar 1, 2004; A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous—got me?

I mean, you could stick an eGPU between the mini and the monitor probably.

# ? May 11, 2020 10:41

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

LionArcher posted:

I�m just annoyed the Mac mini can�t run the new display. For me, the ultimate set up would be a mini, 30 inch display on a vesa mount, a 16 for the road and a 12.9 iPad Pro for coffee shops... all that should run me what? 10 grand?

I love it. the displays the most expensive thing there.

It�s the nicest, prettiest, most impressive display I�ve ever seen, tbf. Just gotta figure out how to write one of those Mac Pro setups off on my taxes/make a bunch of YouTube videos about it to pay for it.

# ? May 11, 2020 11:07

Cough Drop The Beat: Jan 22, 2012; by Lowtax

japtor posted:

Yeah USB 3/BT interference is an old thing, but not necessarily widely known. It's the high CPU/overheating thing depending on side that's new, not sure why the old BT thing got brought up.

Luckily I'm cheap and just bought the MBA when that came out, with no desire for the MBP upon seeing the one I was waiting for was $1800 to start.

Although thinking about my stuff I realized I never sold/traded in my iPad mini 4 after I got the 5 a while ago.

I have little to no interest in anything except the i5 MBA with 16/512GB and nothing will change that unless maybe a 14" MBP came out tomorrow... and that's still a huge maybe. The 2020 MBA checks every box I need from portability to price to lack of ugly Touch Bar. Just wish it came in rose gold, though gold is close enough.

# ? May 11, 2020 13:40

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD: Jul 7, 2012

Binary Badger posted:

No one has reported this high CPU issue on a 2-port, only 4-port rMBPs 2018 and up so far

The interference issue is separate and more of a third party vendor matter; once I had a user who bought a Sabrent USB 3 hard drive dock who claimed it couldn't keep connected to his Lenovo Yoga; I tried it on a 2016 rMBP with an Apple USB-C to USB adapter and it hooked up fine.

When I plugged it into the Yoga, which had a USB-A port, it mounted for a split second, then flashed a Bluetooth symbol on the screen and then the drive unmounted on its own.

I switched it with a Vantec NexStar dock and the same drive stayed mounted and I was able to perform a backup.

I tried switching cables but the same thing happened, the Sabrent unmounted and the Vantec stayed connected, so yeah it may be a chipset / shielding issue.

The chipsets on these USB 3 docks are almost all the same and almost all fucky. The solution is to turn the dock's power off between drives / computers.

# ? May 11, 2020 14:24

Binary Badger: Oct 11, 2005; Trolling Link for a decade

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:

The chipsets on these USB 3 docks are almost all the same and almost all fucky. The solution is to turn the dock's power off between drives / computers.

Or to luck out and have a dock with the good chipset. Turning the power off, then back on resulted in the same exact result- drive mounts for a split second, Bluetooth icon flashes, drive unmounts.

# ? May 11, 2020 15:33

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Lazyhound posted:

I mean, you could stick an eGPU between the mini and the monitor probably.

One complication to keep in mind here if you ever use Boot Camp is that eGPU support is a shitshow in Windows.

# ? May 11, 2020 16:54

Captain Apollo: Jun 24, 2003; King of the Pilots, CFI

Was installing some FabFilter plugins in Logic Pro X on my brand new i5 16gb MBP.

It froze - then did a hard reset.

Was this a kernel panic?

quote:

https://pastebin.com/XdfR7Wfb

# ? May 11, 2020 18:26

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Craigslist MBP for a friend who just broke theirs. 1256 cycles!

# ? May 11, 2020 20:13

EmmyOk: Aug 11, 2013

MBA arrived today at like 6pm after I�d give up hope. Went for a walk and hoped it�d be there when I was back. First time using macOS , keen to get into it

# ? May 11, 2020 21:59

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

I remember when I first got my Mac and installed something, and I was like "well that can't be right. Why didn't I have to go through a dozen panes and clicking Next?".

Sadly now Adobe and similar crappy ports means that installing software is exactly like it is on Windows (outside of app stores anyway), but that was my first big 'oh gently caress' moment. It's good if you can kind of forget how you approach a Windows machine. I often find with macOS and iOS that often you'll try something out of instinct, and you'll get what you were hoping for which is neat.

# ? May 11, 2020 22:05

American McGay: Feb 28, 2010; by sebmojo

Probably a discussion suited for the software thread but I'm trying to think of some must have apps for a macOS virgin to check out. BetterTouchTool and DropZone are some of my staples.

# ? May 11, 2020 23:21

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Unarchiver, VLC Player, Open Emu

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 11, 2020

# ? May 11, 2020 23:24

Daniel Bryan: May 23, 2006; GOAT

What�s the good app that allows you to customize the Touch Bar?

# ? May 11, 2020 23:31

hatty: Feb 28, 2011; Pork Pro

I like Reeder but I�m an old man that still follows RSS feeds, I also prefer MPV to VLC for videos.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:08

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

Craigslist asking prices for MBPs are ridiculous. Are people really paying $900 for a 2014? I'm I so out of touch? No its the children who are wrong.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:12

tragic_ethos: Apr 10, 2007; Advertise here.; Grimey Drawer

Daniel Bryan posted:

What�s the good app that allows you to customize the Touch Bar?

BetterTouchTool, makes it so much more usable.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:17

Shaocaholica: Oct 29, 2002; Fig. 5E

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-chip-has-created-a-nightmare-for-macbook-refurbishers

Vice posted:

Apple�s T2 Security Chip Has Created a Nightmare for MacBook Refurbishers
Recyclers and refurbishers are beginning to scrap devices that cost $3,000 just two years ago.

By Matthew Gault
May 4 2020, 6:30am

As predicted, the proprietary locking system Apple rolled out with its 2018 MacBook Pros is hurting independent repair stores, refurbishers, and electronics recyclers. A combination of secure software locks, diagnostic requirements, and Apple�s new T2 security chip are making it hard to breathe new life into old MacBook Pros that have been recycled but could be easily repaired and used for years were it not for these locks.

It�s a problem that highlights Apple�s combative attitude towards the secondhand market and the need for national right to repair legislation.

�The irony is that I�d like to do the responsible thing and wipe user data from these machines, but Apple won�t let me,� John Bumstead, a MacBook refurbisher and owner of the RDKL INC repair store, said in a tweet with an attached picture of two �bricked� MacBook Pros. �Literally the only option is to destroy these beautiful $3,000 MacBooks and recover the $12/ea they are worth as scrap.�

As Motherboard has reported previously, without official Apple diagnostic software, newer MacBooks cannot be repaired or reset.

�By default you can't get to recovery mode and wipe the machine without a user password, and you can't boot to an external drive and wipe that way because it's prohibited by default,� Bumstead told Motherboard in an email. �Because T2 machines have no removable hard drive, and the drive is simply chips on the board, this default setting means that a recycler (or anyone) can�t wipe or reinstall a T2 machine that has default settings unless they have the user password.�

As we�ve seen with iPhones in the past, users often don�t reset their own devices before they recycle or donate them, so the only thing that can be done with these devices�some of which are less than two years old�is have them shredded for scrap.

If the T2 equipped laptop�s previous owner doesn�t factory reset their machine before selling it or turning it in, then it can�t be done at all. The laptop is effectively a brick. �Recyclers are obviously prohibited from selling computers with user data on them,� Bumstead said. �But now they literally have to scrap the boards because Apple is giving them no way to remove user data if they don't have passwords, as they most often don't.�

Apple started including the T2 chips in MacBook Pros in 2018, and they�re now present in MacBook Airs and Minis produced after 2018. The chip requires the system to check in with a piece of proprietary Apple software after someone makes a hardware change, such as replacing a faulty part, on the computer. Without that check, the computer won�t work. The T2 chip makes the device more secure, but experts say that it should be possible to at least wipe a device and start it from scratch without endangering user privacy.

T2 is becoming a problem for refurbishers and independent repair stores as more of the post-2018 laptops hit their stores. Bumstead his biggest problem is with Apple�s Device Enrollment Program (DEP). DEP allows a company to purchase an Apple device, register its serial number with the company, and easily deliver software updates and proprietary company software.

DEP is a godsend for companies, but a nightmare for independent operations like Bumstead�s. If a company enrolled in the program doesn�t factory reset the machines before selling them off, then second-hand stores can�t sell them.

Wiping your information from a device you trade in is good data hygiene, but individuals aren�t the only people buying computers. Often, companies buy and sell computers in bulk. �When managed machines are decommissioned, the companies rarely de-register their computers,� Bumstead said.

�And if a computer is wiped, and it is a [DEP] managed machine, it becomes unusable during the setup wizard when the user connects to WIFI,� Bumstead said. �Registration is acknowledged at that point, and the user is prompted to log into the company, but they can't, and so the machine is essentially bricked for the user. If they do manage to get to the desktop, they will be plagued with constant �this machine is enrolled by XYZ school district.� Most consumers see this and assume the machine is stolen, and rightfully so.�

Bumstead said that around 20 to 30 percent of the new Macs he sees have this problem.

�It also hurts recyclers,� he said. �Most of the companies donating/selling devices are unwilling to de-register machines even if recyclers ask. But even if they are willing, it's a pain in the rear end that almost makes refurbishers scrap them instead of bothering to refurbish.�

If a recycler gets 1,000 MacBooks and 500 of them are DEP managed, then the recycler has to wipe and reinstall the operating system 500 times via an external harddrive. �Then they create a log of serial numbers and give it to the company to be de-registered. Then, once the company gives the OK, the recycler has to repeat the whole process in order to verify the machines are actually now de-registered. They often aren�t,� Bumstead said. �So you can see how this problem is rapidly infecting the recycling/refurbishing system and absolutely tanking its viability.�

The right-to-repair our own devices is essential to the functioning of a society so reliant on tech. But companies such as Apple and John Deere have made it next to impossible to cheaply, safely, and effectively repair the devices they sell. States across the country are moving forward with laws meant to enshrine the right-to-repair. Bumstead�s struggles highlight the need for the legislation.

Apple declined to comment on the record for this piece.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:21

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

"It's okay, they use 100% recycled aluminum now."

# ? May 12, 2020 01:52

Matt Zerella: Oct 7, 2002; Norris'es are back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (fox Howl)

tragic_ethos posted:

BetterTouchTool, makes it so much more usable.

With Golden Chaos.

# ? May 12, 2020 01:58

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

American McGay posted:

Probably a discussion suited for the software thread but I'm trying to think of some must have apps for a macOS virgin to check out. BetterTouchTool and DropZone are some of my staples.

Steam, mainly so you can install poo poo like Return of the Obra Dinn and Thimbleweed Park and classic LucasArts games without paying Mac App Store prices. Never buy software from the Mac App Store if you can help it.

Also- the GOG Galaxy client for MacOS is annoying. Idk how it is for Windows but it always runs at startup even though I�ve changed that Preferences setting like five times.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:21

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

American McGay posted:

Probably a discussion suited for the software thread but I'm trying to think of some must have apps for a macOS virgin to check out. BetterTouchTool and DropZone are some of my staples.

Mini Calendar

# ? May 12, 2020 03:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 11, 2024 10:54

American McGay: Feb 28, 2010; by sebmojo

I used to use Day-0 but I think that stopped being updated so I switched to Itsycal and I've been liking it as well.

# ? May 12, 2020 03:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Mac Hardware - 5k Supremacy

«‹›1734 »