|
DarkHorse posted:
The Aristocrats!
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 02:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:22 |
|
|
VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:And the fact that these people are all related makes the effort Elaida spent on her foretelling entirely fruitless.and pointless. Elaida's vanity makes her interpret all her Foretellings in the way that most benefits herself. She completely omits any possibility of an alternate interpretation, and suppresses anyone who tries to bring it up. Coincidentally: elide transitive verb 1a : to suppress or alter (something, such as a vowel or syllable) by elision b : to strike out (something, such as a written word) 2a : to leave out of consideration : omit b : curtail, abridge
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
Old Kentucky Shark posted:I'm up to Keille Shaogi's first appearance on my re-read of the books, and I love that Lanfear's lovely thespian skills that only work because she uses them on extremely ignorant rural children is one of those unspoken threads running through the books. I've got to say, as much as I get frustrated at the characters' ignorance and idiocy and falling for obvious crap, I still managed to miss who Sylvie was on my reread. It just goes to show you there's always blind spots It's also fun seeing Perrin get offered to play Maiden's Kiss (when he's trying to move a Maiden by picking her up, and then continuing to do it after they put spears to his throat) and his confusion at what that might be; we've already had an explanation from Mat asking to play and his embarrassment at what happened, but being more familiar with Aiel culture I get to appreciate how Jordan was letting the reader through the characters learn about them. Also Aviendha suggesting Egwene and Elayne just shank Berelain  Atlas Hugged posted:The Aristocrats! Lmao at this
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 04:40
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:Lmao at this It is far and away my best page snipe.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 06:05
|
|
|
Perrin and Maiden’s Kiss illustrates what I always liked best about him: he’s both genuine and implacable. He does what he thinks is right, drat the consequences, and sets about it in the most direct way possible. He’s got a lot in common with Galad, now that I think about it. They both have extremely strong moral compasses, and follow them no matter the obstacles. The biggest difference is that we most often see Galad through Elayne’s eyes, and she hates him. I wonder if he’d be more sympathetic if we knew his thoughts more often. The chapter segment where he kills Valda is the only one I can think of where that happens, and it’s pretty good. Almost everyone but Elayne seems to get along with Galad. At worst, he comes across a bit aloof or arrogant, but tolerably so. Man Elayne really is the worst.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 08:01
|
|
|
Mat's description of Galad really is my favorite. "What every mother says she wants her son to be."
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 08:13
|
|
|
Perrin is very much conscious of consequences. He doesn't always let them dissuade him, but he always makes sure to consider them unless Faile is in danger. One of his defining character traits is that many people think he is stupid because he always runs everything over in his mind, because he knows he is a very powerful person and could cause immense damage. Meanwhile, Galad is firmly in the "I will follow the path of the Light, no matter what. The consequences will be the consequences, let things fall as the wheel wills." camp.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 08:13
|
|
|
Anybody whose moral compass leads them to join the whitecloaks has a seriously broken moral compass.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 08:39
|
|
|
Anyone who successfully reforms the Whitecloaks is doing something right.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 09:45
|
|
|
In conclusion, Galad is a land of contrasts.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 11:01
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Anybody whose moral compass leads them to join the whitecloaks has a seriously broken moral compass. There is a lot of value in what the Whitecloaks originally set themselves out to be. It's also made clear that Galad doesn't see the normal failings of men, nor the massive potential for abuse inherent in such an organisation. I mean, how could an independent police force, answerable only to themselves, with their own torturers possibly be a bad thing? Hell, it's even spelt out in TOM - It wasn't supposed to be this way. But they were just men.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 12:45
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:There is a lot of value in what the Whitecloaks originally set themselves out to be. The original Whitecloaks' mistrust towards the Aes Sedai is 100% justified. Turns out there really was a significant fraction of them who were darkfriends. Turns out they really did misuse their power on numerous occasions. Turns out even many of the non-darkfriends were corrupt in one form or another. Turns out they really deceive and manipulate lots of people, often for no greater aim than to enhance/retain their power. Turns out the question "who watches the watchers?" is an evergreen for a reason. Of course, the Whitecloaks as an organization fell even further from their ideal than the Aes Sedai fell from being truly Servants of All. Not to mentions that basically all those charges that can be brought against the Aes Sedai can be brought against them as well, with the Children of the Light often being worse than the Aes Sedai. Wheel of Time in general is a tale of decline, including the decline of many organizations like the White Tower, Whitecloaks, etc. This all reminds me of a very good scene with Cassandra Pentaghast in Dragon Age Inquisition, who says something similar about the Seekers of Truth: "We were meant to be incorruptible, above reproach. How seldom does reality match the ideal."
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 13:08
|
|
|
Galad just fails to see how rare he really is. There are many who claim incorruptibility, but very, very few who actually are. And he really is the right man to start 'fixing' the Whitecloaks. Hell, he makes a bloody good go of it - he wastes the previous leader - according to their own rules!, disbands the Questioners, and personally takes the fight to the enemy regardless of the personal cost. I guess I just have a soft spot for him. Are the Whitecloaks meant to be a shadow of Aridhol? You could make a pretty strong case that they were very much on a similar path. Second edit! Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 13:17 on May 8, 2020 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 13:14
|
|
|
Galad is great, once you see him from the point of view of someone other than Elayne. He's also terrible, he doesn't tend to think of the full consequences of an act before he does it because it is short term right. Sometimes that's great (gently caress Valda) and sometimes it's braindead (Christ leave Perrin alone man!). But overall he's a really strong character and I'm glad he's in the story and ends up with Berelain. They seem like each would temper the others' worse impulses.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 13:56
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:
They're clearly meant to parallel it, especially since you even have Fain fall right into the same role of corrupting advisor much as Mordeth did to Aridhol.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 13:58
|
|
|
I even liked Pedron Niall to be fair. I guess I like characters that are smart as all hell and ruthless in some regards but stick to their own moral codes in others. PEDRON VS TYWIN DEATHMATCH
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 14:02
|
|
|
Cavelcade posted:Galad is great, once you see him from the point of view of someone other than Elayne. He's also terrible, he doesn't tend to think of the full consequences of an act before he does it because it is short term right. Sometimes that's great (gently caress Valda) and sometimes it's braindead (Christ leave Perrin alone man!). But overall he's a really strong character and I'm glad he's in the story and ends up with Berelain. They seem like each would temper the others' worse impulses. (disclaimer I'm only near the end of book 3) Galad is exactly why lawful neutral characters are annoying as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 14:34
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:(disclaimer I'm only near the end of book 3) while i don't disagree, i do respect them for sticking to their guns
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 14:37
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:I even liked Pedron Niall to be fair. Tywin would have Niall killed with his own chess pieces before he even realized what was happening. Also Galad owns.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 15:39
|
|
|
Zore posted:They're clearly meant to parallel it, especially since you even have Fain fall right into the same role of corrupting advisor much as Mordeth did to Aridhol. Yup, and even Mordeth/Ordeith sound surprisingly similar
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 16:31
|
|
|
Zore posted:They're clearly meant to parallel it, especially since you even have Fain fall right into the same role of corrupting advisor much as Mordeth did to Aridhol. DarkHorse posted:Yup, and even Mordeth/Ordeith sound surprisingly similar You understand they're the same person right? The - entity - known as Mordeth possessed the body of Padan Fain, becoming some kind of hybrid being, although the Mordeth personality appears to have gradually won out. He then got up to his old tricks, corrupting the Whitecloaks; those rebel nobles hiding in the forest, and also Elaida - Sometimes people forget that while she was always a self-centred arrogant rear end in a top hat; it was Fain/Mordeth that tipped her over the edge into full blown crazy. Fain/Mordeth used 'Ordeith' as a pseudonym while posing as various people's advisors. He might have played around with other people as well I forget.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:50
|
|
|
I just got to the Verin reveal and it’s real good. Coulda used that like 6 books ago Jordan!
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:51
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:Elaida's vanity makes her interpret all her Foretellings in the way that most benefits herself. She completely omits any possibility of an alternate interpretation, and suppresses anyone who tries to bring it up. This is genius; I did not pick up on this but wow it’s truth.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 17:53
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:You understand they're the same person right? The - entity - known as Mordeth possessed the body of Padan Fain, becoming some kind of hybrid being, although the Mordeth personality appears to have gradually won out. He then got up to his old tricks, corrupting the Whitecloaks; those rebel nobles hiding in the forest, and also Elaida - Sometimes people forget that while she was always a self-centred arrogant rear end in a top hat; it was Fain/Mordeth that tipped her over the edge into full blown crazy. Fain/Mordeth used 'Ordeith' as a pseudonym while posing as various people's advisors. He might have played around with other people as well I forget. Yeah, I was just mentioning for the Whitecloaks in particular he immediately starts running the same playbook as he did with Aridhol once he got out of Shadar Logoth and it was definitely supposed to be a parallel
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 18:00
|
|
|
It's like poetry, it rhymes
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2020 19:48
|
|
|
One of my favorite internal monologue descriptions of the whitecloaks was Egeanin's "The very concept of a military force, answerable to no one, disgusted her" or somesuch.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
Invalid Validation posted:I just got to the Verin reveal and it’s real good. Coulda used that like 6 books ago Jordan! I spent all of that book wondering what was in her drat letter to Mat. What you find out is so much juicier.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 00:50
|
|
|
Finally finished The Dragon Reborn. I took a long break in April since I was working through a movie marathon, so I need to go back and read a plot summary since I'm sure I've forgotten some threads. But, I think it's functionally the best book of the three I've read so far. EOTW still holds the dearest place in my heart, since I kept trying to read it all through my teenage years, and therefore I know basically the first 1/4 of it by heart, but TDR is just fantastic. All of the characters have become their own fully fleshed out beings with their own personalities and motivations. Nobody is just Rand's traveling companion anymore. Actually, that was one of my favorite things about TDR, is that it barely featured Rand at all for most of it. I felt like he was a little too deus ex machina in the first two books (understandably so, of course), and he still sort of was at the end of TDR, but it felt more... I dunno, earned? Random brain dump thoughts: - Rand is finally seen as The Dragon. I guess a few groups of folks already knew he was after the battle in Falme (Tar Valon, Shienar), but now everyone knows it's true because he got Callandor? I feel like he'll be moving into more of a leadership role in the story, but I honestly am not sure what they're gonna do with Rand. Oh wait, he has an entire race of people (the Aiel) to lead now since they came specifically to find him. - Mat is finally the trickster wanderer badass. The Odin comparisons are starting to become clearer, but I know some of Min's foreshadowing still hasn't happen. But why do Nynaeve/Egwene/Elayne look at him like he's a monster at the end of the book? Oh, wait, duh, I forgot he spent basically two and a half books as a sort of half-darkfriend because of that dagger. That's probably it. I guess they don't fully trust him? Hm, DOES he have some of the dark one in him now? Is that what's tumbling the dice in his head? I get why he's a fan favorite now that he's not sleeping through every chapter. - Speaking of Mat, what's ailing Thom? He just started coughing and now he can't walk. Oh no... - Perrin is finally becoming the hammer bashin' wolf badass. As a character, he's fascinating - he's the big burly blacksmith that also has the spirit of a wolf in him, which is cool, but as far as motivations go, I'm not sure where they're going with him. I've liked his chapters, and I'm glad he's experiencing more of the inner workings of the world (traveling through tel'aran'rhiod, accepting his wolf part, seeing the Forsaken in dreams). He makes a really interesting foil to the 3 Accepted girls. - Nynaeve/Egwene/Elayne were obviously the most interesting part of this book, with their own sort of hero's journey in Tar Valon. I'll be interested to see if/how they get their own individual storylines, since they're sort of a package deal right now. I'm assuming the gray man assassin they came for them in Tar Valon was from the Black Ajah/Liandrin/etc? It's obvious where their story is going to go since they spell it out at the end of the book. They have to hunt the Black Ajah. - I'm enjoying the newer characters, but they're sort of one dimensional so far (I mean, Faile has been around for, what, 10 chapters at this point?), so I'm interested to see how the Fellowship Of The Wheel grows or changes in the next book. There's probably a dozen new minor characters that I've forgotten about. I just hope Thom is okay  All in all, way different book than TGH. I like it better just personally, but I think TGH was perfect as a sequel to EOTW. After this brain dump, I'm going to go back and read plot summaries of the first 3 books since I'm sure there's some threads I've forgotten about (I'm what, 2000+ pages in now?, there's just so much). Loving this series so much.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 14:42
|
|
|
Thanks for posting your takes as you read through, it's great.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 14:48
|
|
|
Fwiw Thom has a limp because of that damned Myrddraal in whitebridge in the first book, and the cough was just him overexerting himself to find Elayne because he doesn't really take care of himself. Great takes, keep it up.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 14:58
|
|
|
I've always thought the first three books are kind of the prologue to the series. They're good books, but it's only at the end of TDR you have the elements that make the world unique, and all the characters are finding their niches. Rand is the Dragon and accepts it, but what does he do next? How do you even begin saving the world knowing poo poo will get really bad regardless? Meanwhile there's absurdly powerful Forsaken walking free, manipulating kings and queens as they wish, and a whole mess of other factions all aiming for something or other.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 20:22
|
|
|
I know I'm late to the party, but Elayne pretty much just says "He's a narc, Galad's a loving narc."bell jar posted:I spent all of that book wondering what was in her drat letter to Mat. What you find out is so much juicier. I'm part way through Crown of Swords, when does it get revealed? I just got the reveal about the Kin.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
Hey elayne you know what galad did that you didnt sacrifice himself rather than his men
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Hey elayne you know what galad did that you didnt I mean she might have but a certain warder was all too against it...
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
Oh gently caress I just remembered that the Slavic version of Thor (Hammer wielding storm God) is named Perun
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 21:50
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:I mean she might have but a certain warder was all too against it... she never intentionally did it though, where Galad specifically put his life on the line for his men multiple times Also watch the spoilers around cool corn 
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
Aw  the thread doesn't need to be censored on my behalf but I appreciate it
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 22:01
|
|
|
COOL CORN posted:- Rand is finally seen as The Dragon. I guess a few groups of folks already knew he was after the battle in Falme (Tar Valon, Shienar), but now everyone knows it's true because he got Callandor? I feel like he'll be moving into more of a leadership role in the story, but I honestly am not sure what they're gonna do with Rand. Oh wait, he has an entire race of people (the Aiel) to lead now since they came specifically to find him. Falme was a big marker, but it didn't fulfill any of the Prophecies. Or, rather, it did, but most people wouldn't have realized it at this point because the Seanchan are so unknown. The Prophecies spell out explicitly that the Dragon will take the untakable fortress and wield the unwieldable sword, so there's no room for doubt.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 22:06
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:she never intentionally did it though, where Galad specifically put his life on the line for his men multiple times I was trying to be super obtuse and vague yeah.  No worries CC, getting to see a new reader's perspective on the books is really awesome, given how many years and rereads it's been since I got that.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 22:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:22 |
|
|
Safety Biscuits posted:"My lords, I have made you this magic Y-shaped spear that you must use together, each of you holding one arm of the Y, or else." Or just train armies of women. Now every weapon they carry isn't made for one man to kill another! Oath upheld. 
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2020 22:30
|
|
