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NRVNQSR posted:As I posted a few back, if you're being picky about rules as written I don't think that's true either? The FAQ only says that AoE effects, the ones with hex patterns, require you to use every attack. Other types of multi-target attacks, like Target X, let you choose to do fewer of them. Here's a question then: the Spellweaver has an ability that reads like "target all in the room", is that an AoE? I'd call that an AoE attack taking on whatever shape the current room has, not a "Target X" attack. Then "target all adjacent" is just an AoE that targets all hexes next to your character
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May 19, 2020 02:26
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Mister Olympus posted:In my experience Diviner doesn't play well with a second support class in some scenarios--especially ones with constant spawns, you just don't have the damage to accomplish anything. You might want to put aside anything that has a special rule about adding more monsters to the table until one or the other has retired into something that can fight. Yeah, if it turns out we can't handle some scenarios we'll just set them aside for a while, or I'll just shelve music note and pick up either a damage-focused Saw build or just start another triangles because that class is really fun once you learn it.
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May 19, 2020 05:49
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QuarkJets posted:Here's a question then: the Spellweaver has an ability that reads like "target all in the room", is that an AoE? I'd call that an AoE attack taking on whatever shape the current room has, not a "Target X" attack. Then "target all adjacent" is just an AoE that targets all hexes next to your character If the rules say "area effect" it specifically means something with a defined set of hexes that it targets with the shape shown. Similar to how attacks at range are only "ranged attacks" if they have the RANGE line as a secondary line attached to the ATTACK. The spellweaver's "target all in room" is technically melee because it doesn't have that, and not an area attack because it doesn't have a hex configuration. The cragheart's boulder kick is also a melee attack, because the RANGE line is not attached to the ATTACK line
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May 19, 2020 06:57
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My TTS group is probably going up against Scenario 51 on Sunday. Three players: Mindthief, Music Note, and Eclipse (myself). All of us level 8, playing on difficulty 4. I'm hoping we'll be able to output the damage we'll need (the boss has 117 HP) given our class composition, and someone will be losing a card every round from its attacks so our clock is pretty tight. Thankfully our Music Note just picked up Tranquil Trill so we won't have to worry about the 2 HP drain as much. He'll just have to be more aggressive than he's used to playing!
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May 19, 2020 07:12
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Mister Olympus posted:If the rules say "area effect" it specifically means something with a defined set of hexes that it targets with the shape shown. Similar to how attacks at range are only "ranged attacks" if they have the RANGE line as a secondary line attached to the ATTACK. The spellweaver's "target all in room" is technically melee because it doesn't have that, and not an area attack because it doesn't have a hex configuration. The cragheart's boulder kick is also a melee attack, because the RANGE line is not attached to the ATTACK line "Target all in the room" is a defined set of hexes, the hexes are defined by the shape of the tile that you're standing on. Likewise "target all adjacent" is also a defined set of hexes
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May 19, 2020 12:29
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QuarkJets posted:"Target all in the room" is a defined set of hexes, the hexes are defined by the shape of the tile that you're standing on. Likewise "target all adjacent" is also a defined set of hexes I agree that treating Inferno like an AoE is a reasonable interpretation of the intent of the rules, but the letter of the rules seems to specifically use AoE to mean the shapes marked out by red hexes on a card. For example, the FAQ says that if an AoE is chiral you can use the mirror image of the shape instead - but we probably all agree that the Spellweaver shouldn't be able to target Inferno at the mirror image of a K tile room.
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May 19, 2020 13:01
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Vidmaster posted:Yeah, if it turns out we can't handle some scenarios we'll just set them aside for a while, or I'll just shelve music note and pick up either a damage-focused Saw build or just start another triangles because that class is really fun once you learn it. Music Note note: Don't sleep on the Soothsinger's ability to deal damage. You don't get a lot of good attacks, but you get an absolutely bonkers modifier deck to compensate. You might think you should pack your deck full of songs, but you should pack at most two songs that you intend swap between playing, and only pack other songs if they have a bottom action you can use every round. Your other turns should be spent slinging your mad disables like Throw Voice or hitting much harder than anyone expects. Specifically when paired with a Sunkeeper, the only songs you'll ever need are Echoing Aria and Disorienting Dirge, both of which you'll have by level 4. MLG reddit guide writers universally poo poo on retaliate, but Echoing Aria deals good damage in a normal party and insane amounts when you've got a dedicated tank character. Disorienting Dirge shouldn't need an explanation; the bottom shits out blesses to increase your party output and curses to let you keep echoing aria online for longer, and straight up cancels most enemy attacks when you need to go on the defensive and play the song half, since their deck is full of curses. You don't really need any defensive items since you shouldn't be getting attacked, so you can dedicate your whole inventory to buffing your few already good attacks. E: The Diviner also gets a persistent buff that damages monsters for every negative modifier they draw, and can add 6 -1 cards to their deck. I haven't played with the Soothsinger/Diviner combo myself, but they look like they can toss in a lot of low-key persistent damage. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 13:20 on May 19, 2020 |
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May 19, 2020 13:13
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QuarkJets posted:"Target all in the room" is a defined set of hexes[...]Likewise "target all adjacent" is also a defined set of hexes. However: QuarkJets posted:Here's a question then: the Spellweaver has an ability that reads like "target all in the room", is that an AoE? I'd call that an AoE attack taking on whatever shape the current room has, not a "Target X" attack. Then "target all adjacent" is just an AoE that targets all hexes next to your character So I would say that any "Target X/all" ability is also an AoE effect.
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May 19, 2020 13:17
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That Italian Guy posted:So I would say that any "Target X/all" ability is also an AoE effect. That would make a lot of sense, but unfortunately the FAQ specifically says "Add Target and Target X are not AoE abilities".
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May 19, 2020 13:49
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NRVNQSR posted:That would make a lot of sense, but unfortunately the FAQ specifically says "Add Target and Target X are not AoE abilities". Well, if that is the wording, it is not incompatible with Some attacks and other abilities allow figures to target multiple hexes or multiple targets at the same time under the Area of Effect paragraph. Add Target and Target X could be non-AoE, while abilities that have multiple targets and a different wording (IE: target all adjacent enemies, or all the enemies in the room) could be.
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May 19, 2020 14:16
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Music Note note: That's helpful, thanks! I did the (really fun!) solo scenario and think I'll probably bring at least one or two extra situational songs like the shield or wound ones just so I can occasionally swap them in and get the free attack 2 if I manage initiative carefully and use the mindthief strategy of go late, stab, go early, stab and run the hell away. Level 7 should be nice for the AOE curse attack too, and I'm expecting I'll get there after another scenario since she gets SO MUCH XP.
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May 19, 2020 16:31
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Vidmaster posted:That's helpful, thanks! I did the (really fun!) solo scenario and think I'll probably bring at least one or two extra situational songs like the shield or wound ones just so I can occasionally swap them in and get the free attack 2 if I manage initiative carefully and use the mindthief strategy of go late, stab, go early, stab and run the hell away. Level 7 should be nice for the AOE curse attack too, and I'm expecting I'll get there after another scenario since she gets SO MUCH XP. Music Note: It's almost always a better idea to use the solo item for the free movement instead of the free attack. Especially if you have Comfortable Shoes. Do whatever makes sense in the current situation though.
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May 19, 2020 16:59
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Elephant Ambush posted:Music Note: It's almost always a better idea to use the solo item for the free movement instead of the free attack. Especially if you have Comfortable Shoes. Do whatever makes sense in the current situation though. Do those two items work together to make your extra moves from the solo item into move 3s? I wouldn't think so but it seems like a lot of the recommendations are based around that. I feel like with a move 6 and move 5 plus the occasional bonus move 2 that I'm not going to ever need comfortable shoes outside of rare scenarios that are incredibly movement heavy in which I could just bring an extra move 4 or something.
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May 19, 2020 20:31
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I'm pretty sure they don't; a "basic" Move 2 is different than a Move 2 action from an ability or item.
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May 19, 2020 21:53
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That Italian Guy posted:This is incorrect. In both cases, it targets 1+ enemies (that are occupying specific hexes) - since that's the only thing that can be targeted. You can't target hexes, or even allies. It's correct. Read my post again; I didn't say that you're targeting hexes for attack. You're targeting all enemies that are within a hex arrangement defined by the card. "Target all adjacent" and "target all in the room" define the hex arrangement.
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May 19, 2020 21:58
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QuarkJets posted:It's correct. Read my post again; I didn't say that you're targeting hexes for attack. You're targeting all enemies that are within a hex arrangement defined by the card. "Target all adjacent" and "target all in the room" define the hex arrangement. That is not correct, sorry. "All enemies in the room" is not a defined set of a hexes, it's a variable count of targets. Even boiling it down to just "the room" isn't a defined set of hexes; it's variable, depending on the room the character is in.
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May 19, 2020 22:02
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Zurai posted:That is not correct, sorry. "All enemies in the room" is not a defined set of a hexes, it's a variable count of targets. Even boiling it down to just "the room" isn't a defined set of hexes; it's variable, depending on the room the character is in. It's a set of hexes defined by whatever hex that the spellweaver is currently standing in. It's not predefined
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May 19, 2020 22:24
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Sorry but is there a rules payoff to this debate? I know originally it was about whether targeting all adjacent enemies with an attack is similar to pushing all adjacent enemies to see if you were forced to do all or none, but at this point it seems like a semantic argument that is going back and forth.
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May 20, 2020 00:06
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That Italian Guy posted:Well, if that is the wording, it is not incompatible with Some attacks and other abilities allow figures to target multiple hexes or multiple targets at the same time under the Area of Effect paragraph. The rulebook is bad about quite a few things, specificity and layout included. This is why people are consulting FAQs and errata, because "area effect" does indeed mean "shape of red hexes" and literally nothing else, just like advantage isn't "draw twice and choose the better" as printed in the rulebook--because that implies that it's the players choice in an ambiguity as to which is 'better'--but "draw twice and choose the one with a higher number, or an effect if the same number, or, if one is a rolling, priority goes to the rolling above all else"
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May 20, 2020 00:25
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NRVNQSR posted:I do wonder how many people there are that wanted GH from the FH kickstarter but didn't want the all-in pledge? Though I guess if someone wanted to, say, get both games but skip Forgotten Circles, the all-in pledge would work out more expensive than buying them separately in the manager. This was me; I don't care about the removable stickers, and I would much rather split my purchase into two charges, so I pledged a buck to get pledge manager access. I did manage to get a Wave 1 Gloomhaven box, so hooray for me.
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May 20, 2020 01:07
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Guy A. Person posted:Sorry but is there a rules payoff to this debate? I know originally it was about whether targeting all adjacent enemies with an attack is similar to pushing all adjacent enemies to see if you were forced to do all or none, but at this point it seems like a semantic argument that is going back and forth. That's still at the root of what we're talking about. If "Target all adjacent enemies" is like a "Target N" ability, then you can decide to skip attacking or effecting (pushing, cursing, etc) any of the individual enemies. If it's like a AOE, then you can't.
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May 20, 2020 02:58
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Mister Olympus posted:The rulebook is bad about quite a few things, specificity and layout included. This is why people are consulting FAQs and errata, because "area effect" does indeed mean "shape of red hexes" and literally nothing else, just like advantage isn't "draw twice and choose the better" as printed in the rulebook--because that implies that it's the players choice in an ambiguity as to which is 'better'--but "draw twice and choose the one with a higher number, or an effect if the same number, or, if one is a rolling, priority goes to the rolling above all else" On Advantage, the FAQ just clarifies what "ambiguous" means. For example +0 Stun vs +2 is ambiguous. The rulebook already specifies what to do in an ambiguous situation It's also not "priority goes to rolling". If the second card is rolling, you just combine it with the first card and that's your result. If the first card is rolling, then it's like you don't have advantage at all QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 05:24 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 03:13
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QuarkJets posted:On Advantage, the FAQ is actually a lot closer to that first interpretation; it provides a bunch of examples that are ambiguous and says that the player should decide for themselves which is better or worse. For example +0 Stun vs +2 is ambiguous
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May 20, 2020 03:20
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Doctor Spaceman posted:If it's ambiguous you take the first card. You don't get to decide. drat, I got that wrong. But that detail is actually in the rulebook, not the FAQ; the FAQ just helps clear up what "ambiguous" means in a way that's already pretty obvious QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 05:25 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 05:22
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So I’ve gotten the itch after a couple solo sessions in TTS. Is there a reason to not just get Gloomhaven from amazon rather than try to fight the backer manager? What’s really the best or whatever way to get a physical copy?
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May 20, 2020 05:55
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George H.W. oval office posted:So I’ve gotten the itch after a couple solo sessions in TTS. Is there a reason to not just get Gloomhaven from amazon rather than try to fight the backer manager? What’s really the best or whatever way to get a physical copy? I think the backer manager is cheapest, but even if you get a copy there you're still going to be waiting until July or something for it. If you want a copy sooner then I'd check for local game stores that might have it in stock (since many of them are really hurting right now), and then try Amazon if there aren't any copies locally.
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May 20, 2020 06:10
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Get it from the backer manager so that you can have cool ~~metal coins~~ like me
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May 20, 2020 07:17
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Doctor Spaceman posted:If it's ambiguous you take the first card. You don't get to decide. Worth pointing out is that this is a common house rule, along with the Two Stack advantage house rule (namely, when attacking with advantage, you form two stacks and pick the stack. Helps keep advantage from being completely hosed by Rolling Modifiers)
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May 20, 2020 07:52
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I think the rule about taking the first card for ambiguous situations exists to speed up the game and resolve disputes, especially for disadvantage.
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May 20, 2020 07:57
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Kaza42 posted:Worth pointing out is that this is a common house rule, along with the Two Stack advantage house rule (namely, when attacking with advantage, you form two stacks and pick the stack. Helps keep advantage from being completely hosed by Rolling Modifiers) I've heard of groups that use that two-stack rule but it sounds like it'd make advantage way too insanely good
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May 20, 2020 13:39
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QuarkJets posted:I've heard of groups that use that two-stack rule but it sounds like it'd make advantage way too insanely good It's one of the few house rules we use. Our group is of the opinion that you should never miss with advantage unless you flip 2 curses. It doesn't really break the difficulty curve over your knee.
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May 20, 2020 13:44
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My best Gloomhaven meme The fact that in RAW perks aren't optional makes it especially dumb. No matter how you feel about two stacks (we use it) I cannot see an argument against optional perks. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 13:55 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 13:52
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Do you at least make it symmetric, drawing two stacks for disadvantage and then throwing away all of the rolling modifiers?
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May 20, 2020 13:52
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QuarkJets posted:Do you at least make it symmetric, drawing two stacks for disadvantage and then throwing away all of the rolling modifiers? Yeah. We take whichever stack is "better" for the enemy and "worse" for us. It's usually pretty clear. I don't recall us ever spending a lot of time figuring that out and we don't bicker.
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May 20, 2020 13:57
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We use two-stack advantage. It does indeed make advantage good. I figure that's a fair price to pay if you don't need to actively avoid rolling modifier perks when leveling up. On disadvantage, we discard all rolling modifiers and take the worse result card. If it's ambiguous, we take the first card.
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May 20, 2020 14:03
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This BGG thread has some maths which I haven't checked but which suggests that in a lot of situations two stacks isn't as huge a buff as it might seem.
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May 20, 2020 14:14
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Doctor Spaceman posted:This BGG thread has some maths which I haven't checked but which suggests that in a lot of situations two stacks isn't as huge a buff as it might seem. Yeah I read that a couple years ago when we started playing and I thought it was cool that someone took the time to do their math and show their work. And then we all decided we didn't care about the math one way or the other because missing with advantage is some table flipping rage inducing poo poo and we refuse to let it happen. I mean, at this point we play at +2 difficulty anyway so it's not like we don't want a challenge. We just don't want to miss with advantage. It sucks.
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May 20, 2020 14:30
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Elephant Ambush posted:And then we all decided we didn't care about the math one way or the other because missing with advantage is some table flipping rage inducing poo poo and we refuse to let it happen. Same. Also RAW for rolling+advantage feels clunky and dumb and inelegant and I hate it for that alone.
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May 20, 2020 14:31
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lol we just unlocked item 71 boots of levitation  Is there a catch or is that item as crazy as it looks? Eraflure fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 17:45
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QuarkJets posted:Get it from the backer manager so that you can have cool ~~metal coins~~ like me I got the metal coins at pax unplugged, but I do gotta wonder what the point of the 3 / 5 coins even are.
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May 20, 2020 17:52
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