|
The resistance just falls so flat compared to the original rebellion. Like the new republic had these guys and just placated them by sending them off against “the bad guys” and whoops the guys were actually bad and blew the new republic up. It just feels like the rebel alliance is the skilled, determined underdog while the resistance are just a bunch screwups who only get anything done because “the force wills it”. It’s so hard to root for them as a group instead of just the generic good vs evil.
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:20 |
|
|
Well, fascism.......... is bad
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:29
|
|
|
Arist posted:Well, fascism.......... is bad From my point of view the resistance is bad !
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:30
|
|
|
The rebellion had ambiguous enough coding that it was possible to not necessarily read them as libs. Whereas the resistance asserts every lib signifier in the book, instantly rendering them worthy only of scorn
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
DJ being the ultimate winner in Star Wars becomes great in retrospect. The way to win a Star War is to not be in a Star War.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:32
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:Except his argument was never refuted. Why should Finn and Rose fight for the Resistance, why should Rey keep fighting, if both sides just engage in endless war. Like his point that the war profiteers sold weapons to the resistance isn't refuted. The resistance is part of the problem, he presents that idea, and the only answer is I guess "because friends?" or " because light?". It seems to attempt a systemic critique in the Canto Bight segment, and then abandons it, and in doing so garbles the message. Why include this voice of doubt character, have him make a legitimate critique, and then never address it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:36
|
|
|
Arist posted:Well, fascism.......... is bad Yea I guess that’s part of my point. The only reason to root for the resistance is that are again literal fascists, even more so than the original empire....Probably, I don’t remember a lot of details from the sequels honestly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:38
|
|
|
Perhaps RJ's treatment for the third movie was going to pay off the war profiteering aspect and DJ and newly woke Finn. Guess we'll never know now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
Did he ever do one? Someone asked him about it on twitter back when Trevorrow was doing it and he said he hadn't been involved with writing IX at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 00:15
|
|
|
"Saving what we love" while the Resistance explodes in the background is never not hysterical
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 00:32
|
|
|
Robot Style posted:Did he ever do one? Someone asked him about it on twitter back when Trevorrow was doing it and he said he hadn't been involved with writing IX at all. Yeah the first draft and a bunch of concept art got leaked online, I'm pretty sure most of it got linked in the thread at some point edit: Don't know if linking the script directly counts as  but here's a gallery of a bunch of the concept arthttps://imgur.com/gallery/GwFZReL OctoberCountry fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
OctoberCountry posted:Yeah the first draft and a bunch of concept art got leaked online, I'm pretty sure most of it got linked in the thread at some point I think that was actually Trevorrow’s script wasn’t it? I don’t know if RJ was ever even supposed to do a script, but I thought I remembered at some point he was supposed to at least outline the third movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
General Dog posted:I think that was actually Trevorrow’s script wasn’t it? I don’t know if RJ was ever even supposed to do a script, but I thought I remembered at some point he was supposed to at least outline the third movie. Oh poo poo, I thought he meant Trevorrow not Johnson. Sorry
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 00:54
|
|
|
Apparently there were reports that Johnson would be doing a treatment for 9 when he was hired to do 8, but that was in 2014 so things likely changed once Trevorrow was brought on board in 2015.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:"Saving what we love" while the Resistance explodes in the background is never not hysterical  Pictured: The Resistance? I know this comes off as glib, but there's really a substantial difference between the First Order successfully blowing up a big door and them killing the Resistance, even if one is supposed to facilitate the other.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:08
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:"Saving what we love" while the Resistance explodes in the background is never not hysterical It’s a door
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:09
|
|
|
Arist posted:Well, fascism.......... is bad Right, but (presumably) the first order isn't the reason literal slave children exist on Canto Bight. The fascism of the first order is overt and almost comically exaggerated, though strictly speaking we don't actually know who they are trying to oppress or annihilate because Disney would never code their space fascists as actually racist or eliminationist of any particular group. They just nebulosity hate freedom, because then you can still cosplay as the villain without it seeming like you are dressing up as an interstellar Nazi. But there's every indication that the Republic is full of structural violence and oppression. DJ's point, and indeed the point of Canto Bight, is that in spite of all the fighting and bloodshed, the oppressive structure remains. So yes, is there a point in dying for the resistance if the Republic they served was just a more subtle brand of evil? Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:12
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:It’s a door Did Rose know that? Did Finn? They didn't know that Rey was going to follow the ice foxes and move some rocks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:13
|
|
|
Despite Kylo Ren's desire to kill the Resistance and his order to take no prisoners, the Miniature Death Star Battering Ram Cannon is luckily only strong enough to put a hole in a door. Rose knows this because she read the script.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:37
|
|
|
To be very clear: DJ isn’t talking quietism. His “Not Joining” means that that he actively opposes the Space Contras while aligning himself with the growing leftist contingent within the First Order (e.g. whichever kind soul gave this homeless ex-con/fugitive a big crate of free money). It turns out that, although the people of the galaxy despise Hux and his stupid slave-army superweapon bullshit, the First Order otherwise has some decent socioeconomic policies. What we see at the end of the ‘saga’ is effectively a massive destalinization campaign by the DJs - but expressly not an endorsement of liberal republicanism. The film ends before we can see what the DJs create.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:37
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:Did Rose know that? Did Finn? They didn't know that Rey was going to follow the ice foxes and move some rocks. Yes Cuz they wanted to stop the giant gun from breaking down the door
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:41
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Yes They knew that the door breaking wasn't essentially a death sentence for The resistance? Because at the time it seems like it would have been.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 01:47
|
|
|
yeah if you presuppose this knowledge by rose then you have to question why they went out there in speeders in the first place. more of the (remaining) resistance got killed trying to stop the dicksaber than after, iirc. am a little baffled that "Thing I Don't Like Liberalism" takes though TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 02:19
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:am a little baffled that "Thing I Don't Like Liberalism" takes though What would you say the Resistance ideology is, then?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 02:37
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:To be very clear: DJ isn’t talking quietism. His “Not Joining” means that that he actively opposes the Space Contras while aligning himself with the growing leftist contingent within the First Order (e.g. whichever kind soul gave this homeless ex-con/fugitive a big crate of free money). It is interesting to see how the fascist organization treats people that have no power over them vs. the Resistance. The First Order had no obligation to give DJ his crate or his fancy suit but they do. The Resistance gives out decoder rings to the slaves that helped them escape while leaving them in shackles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 02:38
|
|
|
Skrill.exe posted:It is interesting to see how the fascist organization treats people that have no power over them vs. the Resistance. The First Order is not really fascist - that’s why Palpatine needed to create Snoke: the people of the galaxy loving hate Palpatine and his Empire. Snoke promises something different - and all the imagery is of Red Dawns and the hand of the worker, etc. Snoke is a Soviet. The waters are muddied by the fact that we see almost nothing about the First Order outside a small portion of its military. And the First Order military is explicitly a bunch of useless ex-Imperial morons that even Snoke hates. Snoke just keeps inexplicably funding them for some reason (the reason is that he is a clone-droid unknowingly programmed to build a slave army for Palpatine). With that out of the way, you do have it right: DJ’s excuse for breaking into Snoke’s personal ship was that he wanted to rob the place. Yet, in response, the guards basically said “oh, you just need money? Well why didn’t you say so, brother! We have plenty of money - and take this ship too.” They just wanted to make sure the money wasn’t going to fund the Space Contras.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:00
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:yeah if you presuppose this knowledge by rose then you have to question why they went out there in speeders in the first place. more of the (remaining) resistance got killed trying to stop the dicksaber than after, iirc. The one core tenet of the resistance is veneration of a representative democracy that proved itself useless at best and deliberatly unconcerned at worst to slavery and war profiteering. The republic is explicitly the galactic government at the beginning of the new trilogy. They stand for freedom and it seems like some sort of constitutionalism, but beyond that? And especially given Finn's defection, they are fine with mercing child soldiers and slave soldiers without thinking about it at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:23
|
|
|
I don't know how you can decisively say the Republic is definitively liberal when you're saying at the same time that they have no apparent values e: inb4 hot fresh "well, neither do liberals!" joke
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:It was never refuted because it's true: the Resistance brought weapons from people who were willing to sell them. DJ seems to think both sides do it knowingly and that the war is a game to the people in it, but the movie itself shows one side dedicating itself fully to annihilating the other and almost succeeding, so I'm not certain he's correct. Yes, of the two sides, Kylo is the one fighting for structural change. The resistance is explicitly not. They want a return to the old status quo. I'm really not trying to be another SMG and get all hermeneutic with the thematic interpretations, but for me DJ and Canto Bight don't work because they seemingly refute the rest of the movie. I still like TLJ the best of the 3, but it is still a mess, and I do wonder if there wasn't some executive meddling that reshaped the final act away from a conclusion that executives might fear would tarnish the brand.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
Arist posted:I don't know how you can decisively say the Republic is definitively liberal when you're saying at the same time that they have no apparent values They have values, they are dedicated to representative democracy and a reverence for institutions. They mythologize the Republic, old and new, all throught the movies. They are the cast of the West Wing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:32
|
|
|
We're talking about an organization that to my recollection meaningfully exists for about three seconds in TFA when we watch their entire system get utterly annihilated by Starkiller Base. Like, fine. Say the sequels do a bad job of establishing the conflict and the powers within it. I actually agree with that. I don't think it's specifically a problem with TLJ, the only movie in the franchise that even tries to contextualize the effect of cycles of war on the galaxy outside of the major powers. Arist fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 03:44
|
|
|
Arist posted:We're talking about an organization that to my recollection meaningfully exists for about three seconds in TFA when we watch their entire system get utterly annihilated by Starkiller Base. I still think DJ makes an odd addtition because his attempt at making a point about the galaxy stands in stark contrast to the empty void we are presented with otherwise. As a character, he deliberatly problematized the audience's understanding of the moral terrrain, but then they don't follow through on it. Like with the theme of sacrifice or "saving what you love" it feels like I can see what RJ was going for, but the pieces don't work. This is better than TFA, which is hollow nostalgia with only surface level thought into theme, or ROS, which is literally a black hole of theme and plot that retroactively ruins the entire franchise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 04:21
|
|
|
The Little Death posted:The one core tenet of the resistance is veneration of a representative democracy that proved itself useless at best and deliberatly unconcerned at worst to slavery and war profiteering. The republic is explicitly the galactic government at the beginning of the new trilogy. They stand for freedom and it seems like some sort of constitutionalism, but beyond that? And especially given Finn's defection, they are fine with mercing child soldiers and slave soldiers without thinking about it at all. The resistance is explicitly a separate antifa organization frustrated at the Republics inaction and fecklessness and committed to direct action. They arn't the liberals in this parable lawl TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 04:21
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:The resistance is explicitly a separate antifa organization frustrated at the Republics inaction and fecklessness. They arn't the liberals in this parable lawl Not by the end. By the end Po is invoking the republic as the mythic symbol they are fighting for. And from everything we see, I'd say they're more like the FSA, fighting against space ISIS.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 04:25
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:The resistance is explicitly a separate antifa organization frustrated at the Republics inaction and fecklessness and committed to direct action. They arn't the liberals in this parable lawl the resistance aren't antifa, they're contras.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 04:32
|
|
|
they're the brave mujahideen fighters of afghanistan that this film is dedicated to
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 05:23
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:the resistance aren't antifa, they're contras. This is an extremely bad analogy on a number of levels
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 05:27
|
|
|
Just saw Rian’s film “Knives Out” is now on the amazon streaming service in my nation. I’ll let you know how it is edit: It was all right No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 19, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 05:30
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:The resistance is explicitly a separate antifa organization frustrated at the Republics inaction and fecklessness and committed to direct action. They arn't the liberals in this parable lawl Liberals fought fascists in the Spanish civil war. The resistance is fighting to maintain/restore the ineffective and unpopular republic. They’re the SPD trying to resuscitate the Weimar Republic, not the KPD trying to destroy capitalism.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 09:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 13:20 |
|
|
Aris is technically right in one sense: Leia leans toward the rightist fringes of the Republican party. She and her followers share much of their neofeudal ideology with Count Dooku. Unlike Padme Amidala, Leia doesn’t say jack poo poo about things like democracy. She’s all about restoring the Jedi Order to a position of greater power than ever before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2020 09:52
|
|