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Ghost Leviathan posted:Most people thought Starkiller Base blew up Coruscant. it did
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Jul 7, 2020 14:27
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If you've watched the other Star Wars movies then the only way to know the death star didn't blow up Coruscant is to consult a wiki
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Jul 7, 2020 14:38
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2house2fly posted:If you've watched the other Star Wars movies then the only way to know the death star didn't blow up Coruscant is to consult a wiki Please, be fair to the ST. You could have consulted a children's dinner mat too.
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Jul 7, 2020 14:51
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IIRC the theory goes that they took all the exposition out of TFA because the whole point was to be comfort food and they were afraid talking about things might make people have PTSD flashbacks to the prequels If only the Star Wars movies had an already existing and accepted way to get exposition about the state of the setting across right at the start of the movie...
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Jul 7, 2020 14:53
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:And I guarantee you it was written to be that way. Disney vetoed that because it would mean they had to pay Georgie. How did Disney acquire Star Wars again? Paying George is not what stopped them from doing it. The more likely reason is because you can’t set future Star Wars stories on a place that’s been blown to smithereens and since Disney paid for the right to tell potential future video game/comic book/tv show/spinoff movie stories on that planet for the purpose of generating revenue from their franchise, why would they blow it up?
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Jul 7, 2020 14:54
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https://twitter.com/elijahwood/status/1229632586760081409?s=20
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Jul 7, 2020 15:01
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:That's funny because I saw a red swastika, not a red star. Also 3PO and the enslaved stormtrooper were the good guys. The nazi symbol is black and has four points. The “Star Killer” has five points, and is extremely red. That the imagery of the red star/hand is associated with specific ‘good guys’ is on purpose. It is associated with slaves: human slaves, droids, caged monsters, and ultimately Darth Vader (who is the union of all three in one body - monstrous droid-human hybrid, simultaneously the incarnation of God). Though Snoke is twisting this message to promote slavery because he’s secretly under the control of the literal devil, the truth of the First Order is that it is a Vaderist organization. It exists to finish what Vader started: to free the slaves. This is a metaphor for how the communist ideal was abused in the Soviet Union - a failure is likened to how the teachings of Christ were twisted by later churches. Snoke is both Stalin-figure and Catholic pope. Grandpa Palpatine posted:Is there actually a reason why it means full communism? Darth Vader is literally Space Christ. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jul 7, 2020 |
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Jul 7, 2020 15:16
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Robot Style posted:Back in the 90's, there were plans to do a book explaining the history of the Star Wars galaxy, which would have explained that the first Skywalker was a descendant of Ron Howard's character from American Graffiti who learned to levitate while leading a slave revolt against the species that would evolve into the Hutts. ok I know I’m late on this but what? the first movie starts with “a long time ago” it’s like one of the most famous parts. how would American Graffiti precede anything
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Jul 7, 2020 15:20
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Mandrel posted:ok I know I’m late on this but what? the first movie starts with “a long time ago” it’s like one of the most famous parts. how would American Graffiti precede anything American Grafitti was really set in 1962 BBY in another galaxy. It' s like one of those star trek planets where it's just like earth for no reason. 
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Jul 7, 2020 15:41
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The Little Death posted:American Grafitti was really set in 1962 BBY in another galaxy. It' s like one of those star trek planets where it's just like earth for no reason. set on an alternate Earth where high-schoolers just look like that
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Jul 7, 2020 15:43
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:And I guarantee you it was written to be that way. Disney vetoed that because it would mean they had to pay Georgie. This is gibberish. You think there was a clause in the acquisition agreement that Disney can’t say the word “Coruscant” without paying George Lucas royalties? Somehow they can’t invoke Coruscant but they can utilize the rest of the IP to their hearts content? You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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Jul 7, 2020 17:15
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:And I guarantee you it was written to be that way. Disney vetoed that because it would mean they had to pay Georgie. Beyond the 4 billion they Already paid him ?
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Jul 7, 2020 17:17
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Lmao. He makes a good point Also the wayfinders should have been called Holocrons. Since they are holocrons
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Jul 7, 2020 17:18
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Brutal
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Jul 7, 2020 17:32
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Jewmanji posted:This is gibberish. You think there was a clause in the acquisition agreement that Disney can’t say the word “Coruscant” without paying George Lucas royalties? Somehow they can’t invoke Coruscant but they can utilize the rest of the IP to their hearts content? You have no idea what you’re talking about. It's extra funny because Lucas didn't even come up with Coruscant
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Jul 7, 2020 17:57
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All these IPs are yours except Coruscant. Attempt no movies there
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Jul 7, 2020 17:59
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That lucas royalty dodging thing was a buzzy rumor months ago but I dont remember any evidence There's a whole cottage industry of youtube supershadows that churn that crap out, most recently Sheev's Hall of Mirrors to reboot the sequel trilogy
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Jul 7, 2020 18:00
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It has some explanatory power as an attempt to explain some of the weirdness with the many offbrand planets in the sequel trilogy (jakku, hosnian, the non-forest moon of endor, the two different non yavin yavin planets, etc etc) but ultimately, as with everything in the sequel trilogy, the overwhelming confusion of everyone involved wins out
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Jul 7, 2020 18:11
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It would be pretty insane for Lucas to want royalties on planet names and not X wings and Tie fighters
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Jul 7, 2020 18:14
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And all of those locations are embarrassingly bloodless imitations designed to make the funko pop addled mind squirt the good star war chemical. You could pick any two planets from the order 66 montage and see more effort than the whole ST
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Jul 7, 2020 18:17
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Ingmar terdman posted:Sheev has a goddamn Time Machine I'm inclined to believe smoke, fire, etc. You just knooow when it gets pulled back out the attic, its gonna be something really stupid like "The ST happened, but the Real episode 7-9 is actually happening here! No OT characters, but we have a coherent script!" or someone deciding to gently caress with the Great Hyperspace War and change the timeline to be "Ooops, All Sith!". I'm with it. Fire that Chekov's Gun.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:20
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Wouldn't that basically just be Star Trek 09? ...oooh, I know the logical hellworld next step: remake trilogy. Starting with the prequels.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:30
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If the old republic trilogy goes well, or even if it's just not a disaster, I think it's totally plausible that will just become the setting for everything disney wars going forward. The ST withdrew what they could from the OT cadre, and they're increasingly elderly and dying off in any case. The future of star wars is zoomers, and if they can just get ahsoka into the past somehow they have a shot at renewed money extraction for generations
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Jul 7, 2020 18:31
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Coruscant was the one prequel thing I was sure they were gonna bring back for the sequels. Seemed impossible that they’d handwave away the central seat of the galactic government. Ah well. Even beyond it’s usefulness for narrative, Coruscant is limitless in visual storytelling possibilities, especially when they are clearly out of ideas for interesting outdoor settings.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:38
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Decisive counter argument: It was prominently featured in the prequels, and would have reminded people of them. Ticket closed
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Jul 7, 2020 18:44
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No Mods No Masters posted:Decisive counter argument: It was prominently featured in the prequels, and would have reminded people of them. Ticket closed Its this The sequel trilogy in general (and seemingly JJ in specific) is absolutely loving terrified of even gently reminding the audience that the prequels exist, which is why TFA is so allergic to even hinting at galactic politics and why we never saw Hayden Christensen appear to Kylo as a force ghost, even though that’s such an incredibly obvious Thing to do.
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Jul 7, 2020 18:55
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:You can just click on the upside down question mark on the very first post there, op. I meant where does SMG start
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Jul 7, 2020 19:08
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Grandpa Palpatine posted:I think I might be the only person that believes TFA set up the status of the galaxy fairly well by showing and not telling. Only exception was when Hosnian Prime went brrrrrrrrrrrrr and Finn runs at the camera to tell us the Republic is gone! TFA makes no sense on the background. If the Republic is in control of the galaxy then why is it funding a resistance group to fight the First Order? What's the balance of power here? Can the FO just walk over the Republic with their massive space fleet? TLJ implies that pretty strongly. Then why are they bothering with Starkiller base? Likewise in RoS there is a comparable scene where Ren and the First Order are discussing whether to accept Palpatine's offer, but the FO is already established as being effectively in control of every place of interest in the galaxy already. Why do they need Palpatine's fleet? It would make more sense if they were worried that their initial blitz was running out of momentum and the half of the galaxy they haven't subjugated is mobilising against them, which would also set up how Lando is able to come to the rescue at the end, except JJ doesn't want to do that. The only thing approaching an interesting point in that scene is where a general reasonably asks "What are we giving up in return?" and Ren kills him immediately, which should cause the rest to start worrying a bit. In each of the original films you can sum up what's going on in the background of our hero's story in a sentence: "the Empire needs the Death Star to prevent widespread rebellion breaking out", "The Rebels need to escape the Imperial attack and regroup", "The Imperial Fleet is dispersed across the galaxy in a vain attempt to engage us and the time for our attack is now...". In the prequels it's a lot more messy and actually less in the background because you see Palpatine doing his plot on-screen rather than off-screen but it's there. At no point in the Sequel Trilogy is it remotely clear at any point what any particular group is actually trying to achieve and what's holding them back from achieving it.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:13
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They pretty much put themselves in a corner by having a background that kind of required politics to explain, but also an absolute prohibition against having politics in the movie since politics were in the prequels and would have reminded people of them. If anything they needed to soft seaboot even more and just start with empire/rebels from square one. Rian was actually the most clear minded about this intuition and tried to fudge it into place
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Jul 7, 2020 19:19
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Mandrel posted:ok I know I’m late on this but what? the first movie starts with “a long time ago” it’s like one of the most famous parts. how would American Graffiti precede anything In the book, 25th century Earth is on the verge of changing into the computer-controlled dystopia from THX-1138, and a descendant of American Graffiti's Curtis Henderson is to become THX-0001. Since he and the others resisting the computers can't beat them, they decide to steal a mining starship and head to Alpha Centauri to colonize a new world. Along the way, they fall into a wormhole that transports them through time and space, dumping them into a faraway galaxy a billion years in the past. The humans end up getting abducted by slavers, and a descendant of the descendant of Ron Howard ends up developing Force powers to help lead a slave revolt, which earns him the name Skywalker.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The nazi symbol is black and has four points. The “Star Killer” has five points, and is extremely red. Frankly the First Order was probably not Stalinist enough, as it largely failed to purge the opportunists and fascist collaborators within its own ranks.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:39
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No Mods No Masters posted:Decisive counter argument: It was prominently featured in the prequels, and would have reminded people of them. Ticket closed In spite of all of the supposed hatred of the prequels, which I think is mostly a mirage at this point, does anyone really believe they are so toxic that there is reflexive hatred of absolutely every component of them? Would people be upset if they brought back the concept of a “padawan”, or a double-edged lightsaber, or had one act of one movie return to Coruscant, or any of those other innocuous things? To the extent that Coruscant is associated with the principal “crime” of the prequels (“too much politics!”), that can easily be avoided by leaning into the potential noir setting of the surface/underground of the city (as they did to great effect in the first act of AOTC). I sincerely doubt even the most vocal idiots on the Internet would’ve raised a fuss if Coruscant was revisited in a new and interesting way.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:43
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Jewmanji posted:In spite of all of the supposed hatred of the prequels, which I think is mostly a mirage at this point, does anyone really believe they are so toxic that there is reflexive hatred of absolutely every component of them? Would people be upset if they brought back the concept of a “padawan”, or a double-edged lightsaber, or had one act of one movie return to Coruscant, or any of those other innocuous things? You're right, but convince a studio executive of that.
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Jul 7, 2020 20:54
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It probably wouldn't have hurt to openly reference the prequels (in fact people would probably have liked it- I suspect "I know that reference  " is stronger in people's minds than "I didn't like that movie  ") but it wouldn't be the first time Disney made big decisions that weren't rooted in reality
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Jul 7, 2020 20:55
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If you watch the Lindsay Ellis breakdown of the new Beauty and the Beast, you can tell that Disney execs are extremely online at this point. They are right in nerd culture, totally misinterpreting what they are seeing as representative of general audiences. what I'm saying is that this is redlettermedia's fault, it is 100% because of their stupid movies that idiot Disney execs thought that they needed to distance themselves from the prequel trilogy as much as they did. I'm not trying to give JJ too much credit, but I'm sure that his script writing started with a list of stipulations from Disney execs who don't actually understand how stories work, but wanted a bunch of do's and don'ts based on what they thought the market for Star wars was.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:03
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I'll never forgive rich evans, for causing this
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Jul 7, 2020 21:09
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No Mods No Masters posted:I'll never forgive rich evans, for causing this
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Jul 7, 2020 21:10
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The most interesting stupid executive mandate is having absolutely no alien characters in the foreground. Even Chewbacca is sidelined.Ferrinus posted:Frankly the First Order was probably not Stalinist enough, as it largely failed to purge the opportunists and fascist collaborators within its own ranks. Right! A critical point I like to return to is that the First Order (under Snoke) is basically the generic 'apolitical' totalitarianism of 1984. This makes them more akin to HYDRA in the later Marvel movies or SPECTRE in the Bond films. Like, in 1984, the baddies straight-up say that they are neither nazis nor soviets. However, in all these cases, this is specifically a depoliticization of Soviet imagery. This is most obvious in how Bond's SPECTRE replaces SMERSH, but you also have Winter Soldier's robot arm with red star ("you probably don't recognize me because of the red arm") - and the issues with 1984 are covered in Isaac Asimov's absolutely brutal takedown. This is related to Zizek's often-stated point that there has been tons of good material about the rise and evils of fascism, but we don't really see much theory as to how or why the Soviet Union went bad. The predominant narrative is that the Ruskies just became nazi-like due to insufficient liberalism.
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Jul 7, 2020 21:35
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Which is why Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism is such an instructive text when examining fictional so-called “depoliticized” Hitlerian/Stalinist regimes. Regardless of whether the FO can be meaningfully described as either fascist or communist (although the seeming lack of significant non-human integration arguably implies the former) Arendt’s framework demonstrates that the Empire and FO were totalitarian in nature, with the Death Stars replacing Hitler’s and Stalin’s concentration camp as the central institution of organizational power.
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Jul 7, 2020 22:31
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"Totalitarianism" is a fake idea. The actual instrument of any regime's power is the bog-standard police and prison system, and those only serve so long as the bulk of the people basically assent to the regime's legitimacy. The Death Star is analogous to the Nazi concentration camps in that it represented an insane and self-defeating resource sink for which the ruling ideology could simply not abandon, but you're kidding yourself if you think the citizens of the Reich were all good liberals who were all simply too scared of of Hitler to dissent.
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Jul 7, 2020 23:04
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