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Now that I think of it, that Ryobi 10" is great and cuts straight and smooth, except of you're doing a bevel at full extension. I'd keep the bevel cuts up close. Not sure if it's the Ryobi or if you're generally not supposed to make those kind of cuts.
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Jul 15, 2020 05:57
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Elysium posted:Here is my imitation of every “help me to buy a table saw” discussion thread on the internet: I haven't looked up to the 1000 range, but the delta saw at home depot that's 599 is really the best "garage" saw based on all my research. It's a 10" and sold as a contractor saw but it's not a rickety foldy rear end ones that I find in that range. It decent fence (I wish it had micro adjustment) and an okay amount solid metal table with some decent wings that aren't solid. There's also some room to hang a router table etc at the end of it. It's on my wishilist to buy again but for now I'm focusing on gaining back all my hand tools and such that magically disappeared from the house from my divorce.
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Jul 15, 2020 12:02
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I got the https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-2-HP-120V-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-T-Shaped-Fence/G0771Z when it was on sale (I think for 20% off?) and I really love it. Super solid, great fence, decent motor. No real bells and whistles but a great sturdy saw for under 1k. I kind of wish I spent a bit more and got their next level upgrade at ~1200 that has a little nicer fence and rail set, but it'd be just nice to have, not a huge change.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:38
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tater_salad posted:I haven't looked up to the 1000 range, but the delta saw at home depot that's 599 is really the best "garage" saw based on all my research. It's a 10" and sold as a contractor saw but it's not a rickety foldy rear end ones that I find in that range. It decent fence (I wish it had micro adjustment) and an okay amount solid metal table with some decent wings that aren't solid. There's also some room to hang a router table etc at the end of it. It's on my wishilist to buy again but for now I'm focusing on gaining back all my hand tools and such that magically disappeared from the house from my divorce. Was also going to suggest the Bosch Reaxx, which is similar to sawstop but fires the blade down instead of destroying it. But I guess Sawstop sued Bosch because one component is similar and they’re not allowed to sell it in the US anymore. I guess profit > increased public accessibility to important safety features... I totally agree though, for traditional table saws I really like the Delta contractor saws. I’ve got an older direct drive Delta table saw with a cast iron top, and it just works so drat well I can’t seem to ever justify upgrading it to the contractor style, even though I’d love to.
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Jul 15, 2020 20:53
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Theres a part of me that really wants the Milwaukee but another part (and the wife) think it's smarter to save $400 and get the Ryobi. And as my carpenter buddy told me today w/re the saw/wife/budget "you're gonna buy a $600 carpenter's tool when you're an electrician."
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Jul 15, 2020 20:55
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I got the https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-2-HP-120V-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-T-Shaped-Fence/G0771Z when it was on sale (I think for 20% off?) and I really love it. Super solid, great fence, decent motor. No real bells and whistles but a great sturdy saw for under 1k. I kind of wish I spent a bit more and got their next level upgrade at ~1200 that has a little nicer fence and rail set, but it'd be just nice to have, not a huge change. I too have the hybrid and it does a great job. Cast Iron, solid fence, and it has handled 6/4 hardwoods without issue. I did break the tilt wheel when the stop nuts walked on me but their support sent out a new one without question. You can always add a different fence later if you wanted something better. My biggest complaint is the dust collection is really lovely, its just a 4" port at the bottom of the cabinet and relies on the top dust cover for 80% of collection. OSU_Matthew posted:Was also going to suggest the Bosch Reaxx, which is similar to sawstop but fires the blade down instead of destroying it. But I guess Sawstop sued Bosch because one component is similar and they’re not allowed to sell it in the US anymore. I guess profit > increased public accessibility to important safety features... Sawstop also tried (at the same time as that lawsuit) to force a legislation that all tablesaws require a break by law. They absolutely wanted to monopolize the safety feature and force every other saw out of business. Besides their lovely ethics I have found their saws to have a ton of problems as they age. One that I use had over a dozen false triggers before they mentioned the belt has to be changed every year, even if it is mechanically fine, as resistance build up will cause it to trigger. After that there are still false triggers due to electronic failures they can't figure out. I would say over 2 years there have been over 2 dozen false triggers at $80-$120 a break plus blades at $50-$200 (including dado stacks). That is well over $2k in gently caress ups not caused by a person.
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Jul 15, 2020 21:35
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JEEVES420 posted:Sawstop also tried (at the same time as that lawsuit) to force a legislation that all tablesaws require a break by law. They absolutely wanted to monopolize the safety feature and force every other saw out of business. On the plus side, the SawStop patents will all start expiring ~August 2021 (assuming human civilization lasts that long) and there's nothing in the patent system that prevents you from designing something using patented technology so you'd better believe there will be a wave of knock-offs ready to hit the stores just in time for Black Friday next year. JEEVES420 posted:Besides their lovely ethics I have found their saws to have a ton of problems as they age. One that I use had over a dozen false triggers before they mentioned the belt has to be changed every year, even if it is mechanically fine, as resistance build up will cause it to trigger. After that there are still false triggers due to electronic failures they can't figure out. I would say over 2 years there have been over 2 dozen false triggers at $80-$120 a break plus blades at $50-$200 (including dado stacks). That is well over $2k in gently caress ups not caused by a person.  I had no idea it was that bad! I'd heard some people complain about false triggers but always saw it dismissed away as people using wet wood, etc.That is absolutely insane, though -- to the point that it almost feels like some kind of "printer ink" scheme on SawStop's part (which based on previous statements I wouldn't put past them).
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Jul 15, 2020 21:51
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Ferrule posted:Theres a part of me that really wants the Milwaukee but another part (and the wife) think it's smarter to save $400 and get the Ryobi. If you can get by till the holiday season, you might be able to find some good deals around then too. I snagged a a corded 12” sliding Dewalt double bevel Miter saw for ~300$ at HD a few years ago, and it’s served me extremely well ever since. I think it’s a black friday specific model, but the noticeable differences are negligible. E: JEEVES420 posted:Besides their lovely ethics I have found their saws to have a ton of problems as they age. One that I use had over a dozen false triggers before they mentioned the belt has to be changed every year, even if it is mechanically fine, as resistance build up will cause it to trigger. After that there are still false triggers due to electronic failures they can't figure out. I would say over 2 years there have been over 2 dozen false triggers at $80-$120 a break plus blades at $50-$200 (including dado stacks). That is well over $2k in gently caress ups not caused by a person. Holy poo poo.... I had no idea they were that bad.... hoping that patent doesn’t get extended, because gently caress them. That’s some late stage capitalism bullshit, monopolizing safety features that can and do save a lifetime of suffering for people. Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 21:53
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Ferrule posted:Theres a part of me that really wants the Milwaukee but another part (and the wife) think it's smarter to save $400 and get the Ryobi. That's an absurdly cheap price for a solid saw. The first tool they ever introduced into the U.S. was a 10" fixed base saw with lovely electronics in the late '80s and they got destroyed by craftsmen and carpenters. Word of mouth. To their credit, they learned from it and never forgot that initial fuckup. Your buddy and wife are right. A battery run miter saw just strikes me as wrong in any case.
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Jul 15, 2020 22:17
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Lol that was not a pm
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Jul 15, 2020 22:41
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JEEVES420 posted:Besides their lovely ethics I have found their saws to have a ton of problems as they age. One that I use had over a dozen false triggers before they mentioned the belt has to be changed every year, even if it is mechanically fine, as resistance build up will cause it to trigger. After that there are still false triggers due to electronic failures they can't figure out. I would say over 2 years there have been over 2 dozen false triggers at $80-$120 a break plus blades at $50-$200 (including dado stacks). That is well over $2k in gently caress ups not caused by a person. I think you're the first person I've read say something like this about Sawstop. I've probably read 15-20 table saw threads on various woodworking forums and everyone gushs over them as being a top tier saw with a top tier safety mechanism. I'm in the market myself and was pretty set on a Sawstop but this gives me pause. Can you talk about your use case for the Sawstops you've had trouble with? Are these work horse saws in a professional shop - running multiple hours per day or just home prosumer or consumer type weekend woodworkers? Which model of saw?
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Jul 16, 2020 04:01
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Numinous posted:I think you're the first person I've read say something like this about Sawstop. I've probably read 15-20 table saw threads on various woodworking forums and everyone gushs over them as being a top tier saw with a top tier safety mechanism. The SawStop* is at my makerspace next to a Powermatic PM66 that replaced a borrowed Delta Unisaw. They both see a lot of use and abuse, probably 60-70 hours a week minimum. Don't get me wrong the saw itself is top tier with a fantastic fence, dust collection, power, and add ons. Having people with experience across the board use it I have seen it save fingers, a lot of the time they didn't even think their fingers were near the blade when it tripped. I have also seen people use it as a crutch instead of learning proper safe usage. They won't touch the other table saws but feel completely confident standing with their nuts in the kick back pushing with their left hand through the cut. The break itself does nothing to prevent kick backs though, that is what a proper splitter is for. The break will prevent a stupid mistake turning into something much worse. Just keep in mind that the extra 1000-1500 you're paying up front is not the only extra cost associated with the break. Much like car engines, more electronics that go into it the more things that can go wrong but in theory the safer it is...and more expensive. I doubt the weekend woodworker is going to notice a false trip and assume they did something to cause it. When you have cameras pointed at the saw (one pointed directly down on the table and another pointed downward across) and multiple experienced users trip it...it goes noticed. Complete Speculation but I think Sawstop pays a lot of money for online image, sponsors, scrubbing, celebrities, etc . There is also the very  re-circulation of that really old kick back video that seemed to hit every possible outlet right before their price increase last(?) year. *SawStop ICS31230-52 - 10" 3 HP 230V Industrial Table Saw With 52" T-Glide
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Jul 16, 2020 05:16
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angryrobots posted:Both of your preferred brands are fine saws, and both come in homeowner and professional versions. Generally speaking, I think stihl is a bit upmarket and more expensive. Either way, I would suggest finding a local dealer and avoiding the box stores. Many people say the box store versions (of the Husqvarna models at least) are inferior or at least different. I can say from personal experience that I bought a 16" Husqvarna from Lowe's, and finding a replacement chain was a pain as after a few years Lowe's didn't have it and the dealer acted like it was an oddball (but did find it). I'd add Echo to that list, especially for a homeowner. 5 year warranty, good ergo, and cheaper than Stihl. Again, a local dealer is the way to go. I'd say the sweet spot for most homeowners is 40-45ccs. Anything smaller is frustrating to use, anything much bigger is gonna be $$ and pretty heavy. I've got a 262XP for big stuff, but it's way more than I need now. My Echo CS-450 gets a lot more use. Oh yeah, buy (and wear) a pair of chainsaw chaps and Kevlar gloves. Buy (and wear) good eye/ear protection, and if you're felling, buy (and wear) a helmet. Chainsaws are nasty animals that want to tear you up, bling and deafen you, then drop branches onto your head. sharkytm fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 11:41
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tater_salad posted:I haven't looked up to the 1000 range, but the delta saw at home depot that's 599 is really the best "garage" saw based on all my research. This is what I was originally looking at, but as I got a little deeper into my research there were just too many horror stories about damage, blown motors, and terrible customer service (drive your table saw 3 hours away so we can assess it!) for me to pull the trigger. There are a few components of these saws that are just bad from the factory in a fair number of saws, mostly affecting the T2, but some T1s as well. Delta was actually forced to publish a notice that there was in fact something wrong and stopped shipping new T2s to stores. A guy on facebook is practically making a living selling repair kits that replace some of these parts. The other issue for me personally was they redesigned the motor for the T2 so you cannot wire it for 220, which I would have liked to do. So I've pushed the budget up a little and looking at the g0771 as mentioned, and the Laguna F1, or maybe pushing the budget up to a g0899 or F2, or even a 1023RL at the absolute top of my range. But $2500+ for a SawStop is just out of the question, and I'm sick of seeing discussions overridden with "Just spend another $2000!" People who post that should be forced to disclose their salary, whether they are a professional woodworker, and their total run time since buying it. It's not even a matter of whether I can afford it, it's just to me, for my usage, a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a table saw that can go to something else (queue: "but how much is your finger worth!"). Elysium fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 16, 2020 |
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Jul 16, 2020 14:05
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Elysium posted:But $2500+ for a SawStop is just out of the question, and I'm sick of seeing discussions overridden with "Just spend another $2000!" People who post that should be forced to disclose their salary, whether they are a professional woodworker, and their total run time since buying it. It's not even a matter of whether I can afford it, it's just to me, for my usage, a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a table saw that can go to something else (queue: "but how much is your finger worth!").
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Jul 16, 2020 14:39
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Slugworth posted:As a filthy poor who has gotten his DeWalt contractor saw to do everything he's ever needed it to do over the past 10 years or so, I agree. By all means, people who have the cash should go crazy and get cool poo poo, but yeah, it's a slightly obnoxious conversation at times. That's just basic human stuff though, we all assume our experience is the baseline. If I can afford a sawstop without really sweating it too much, everyone else can, right? Using a lovely "fence" that IIRC was a piece of wood that slid along two slots on the table and locked down with little plastic clamps, I was able to cut exact lengths, and even a few decent angles for along the roof ridge. The point of this old man yelling at a cloud story is that that thing was a hilariously unsafe piece of crap and a $200 ryobi saw looks luxurious in comparison. It's all about perspective, man!
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Jul 16, 2020 15:51
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JEEVES420 posted:The SawStop* is at my makerspace next to a Powermatic PM66 that replaced a borrowed Delta Unisaw. They both see a lot of use and abuse, probably 60-70 hours a week minimum. Don't get me wrong the saw itself is top tier with a fantastic fence, dust collection, power, and add ons. Having people with experience across the board use it I have seen it save fingers, a lot of the time they didn't even think their fingers were near the blade when it tripped. I have also seen people use it as a crutch instead of learning proper safe usage. They won't touch the other table saws but feel completely confident standing with their nuts in the kick back pushing with their left hand through the cut. Well, it's one for the money Two for the show Nuts in the kick back Now go, cat, go
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Jul 16, 2020 16:49
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My dad sold his table saw and was about to buy a SawStop when he was diagnosed with cancer. So really, I blame SawStop for his death. 
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Jul 16, 2020 17:55
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Elysium posted:This is what I was originally looking at, but as I got a little deeper into my research there were just too many horror stories about damage, blown motors, and terrible customer service (drive your table saw 3 hours away so we can assess it!) for me to pull the trigger. There are a few components of these saws that are just bad from the factory in a fair number of saws, mostly affecting the T2, but some T1s as well. Delta was actually forced to publish a notice that there was in fact something wrong and stopped shipping new T2s to stores. A guy on facebook is practically making a living selling repair kits that replace some of these parts. The other issue for me personally was they redesigned the motor for the T2 so you cannot wire it for 220, which I would have liked to do. I completely agree with everything you've said. The only thing that is pushing me personally to get more than I probably need is the ability for these things to hold value - and I mean top tier table saws in general, not just SawStop. A well taken care of table saw is going to sell for pretty close to it's retail price so even if I decide this woodworking journey is a passing fad I can still get my money back out of it for the equivalent of a couple hundred dollar rental fee.
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Jul 17, 2020 01:16
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Found a 10% off Grizzly coupon code that works for the G0771. Makes it almost bang on $1000 including freight shipping with liftgate and tax. That might just tip my hand. On the other hand though, it's currently out of stock with no known ship date, whereas the 1023RLW is currently in stock. That would be almost 2k shipped...
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Jul 17, 2020 19:58
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I need a drill for just all around usage around the home. I don't anticipate doing a lot of projects. What's a good starter drill? Will I see any difference if I use a Dewalt drill instead of a Ryobi?
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Jul 17, 2020 21:19
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Ryobi is good and cheap for the average homeowner.
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Jul 17, 2020 22:07
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Bioshuffle posted:I need a drill for just all around usage around the home. I don't anticipate doing a lot of projects. What's a good starter drill? Will I see any difference if I use a Dewalt drill instead of a Ryobi? I like my Ryobi drill just fine, I do average around-the-house stuff with it as well as weekend hobbyist woodworking. The battery platform is also cheap and they have a ton of useful-around-the-house tools for it (dustbuster, weed whacker, etc)
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Jul 17, 2020 22:36
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Bioshuffle posted:I need a drill for just all around usage around the home. I don't anticipate doing a lot of projects. What's a good starter drill? Will I see any difference if I use a Dewalt drill instead of a Ryobi? Ryobi
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Jul 17, 2020 22:43
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Just switched from team yellow to team neon green, and I'm impressed as hell at the quality, never mind the price.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:00
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I have ryobi, but unless one manufacturer makes a unique tool you absolutely must have, just get your favourite colour.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:14
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Elysium posted:Found a 10% off Grizzly coupon code that works for the G0771. Makes it almost bang on $1000 including freight shipping with liftgate and tax. That might just tip my hand. On the other hand though, it's currently out of stock with no known ship date, whereas the 1023RLW is currently in stock. That would be almost 2k shipped... I bought the 1023RLWX back in April and absolutely love it. I had to rewire my 220 drop with a 10ga cable to run the 30amp breaker, but that was easy enough. I came from an old 70's Craftsman contractor saw, and the blade on the 1023 spins so drat true and the cuts are spot on every time. The dust collection has been great too hooked up to a small wall mount dust collector, especially after I covered the open space on the front panel of the saw. I will say cleaning the rust prevention poo poo off of the tables was awful though and probably the worst part of the assembly. I kind of wish I would have gone for the 1023RLW instead and used the savings for the folding outfeed table as I don't the space for a permanent outfeed table at this point.
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Jul 17, 2020 23:23
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Another satisfied Ryobi OnePlus user here. Perfectly usable and effective tools for general homeownership and small projects but I wouldn’t recommend them for anything beyond that. At this point I have way too many green tools and batteries in my garage.
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Jul 18, 2020 00:35
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Thanks for the tip! I've had bad experiences with cheap tools breaking down and wasting my money. The next item, I don't want to go cheap on. Recommend me a good ladder. I have a two story home, but I can get onto the roof from the patio. I'm confused about which size I should go for. I'm looking at Werner and Little Giant brands. Specifically the multiposition type. Any insight there?
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Jul 18, 2020 00:55
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Falco posted:I kind of wish I would have gone for the 1023RLW instead and used the savings for the folding outfeed table as I don't the space for a permanent outfeed table at this point. The RLWX is actually on sale, so it’s only like $75 more, plus 25 more in freight. But I absolutely do not need 5hp, and I don’t want to upgrade electrical so it seems pointless to get it over the RLW.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:14
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Bioshuffle posted:Thanks for the tip! I've had bad experiences with cheap tools breaking down and wasting my money. I'm not a ladder expert but I got something like one of those little giant ladders but whatever the costco brand version of it was. It seems very convenient having something that can be a step ladder and then fold out to be much longer. In practice it's just so heavy it turns into a massive chore to use it as a step ladder. In retrospect I would rather have a separate step ladder that's easy to tote around for small jobs, then a long ladder for when I need to get up to a roof or access the second floor windows or whatever.
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Jul 18, 2020 01:29
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Squibbles posted:I'm not a ladder expert but I got something like one of those little giant ladders but whatever the costco brand version of it was. It seems very convenient having something that can be a step ladder and then fold out to be much longer. In practice it's just so heavy it turns into a massive chore to use it as a step ladder. In retrospect I would rather have a separate step ladder that's easy to tote around for small jobs, then a long ladder for when I need to get up to a roof or access the second floor windows or whatever. Yeah, the multi-function ladders are really for if you only have storage space for 1 ladder and need it to be able to do multiple jobs. They're worse at any individual job and really heavy. That said, if you are storage constrained, they do still function fine as ladders. And weight isn't a huge deal unless you need to move the ladder regularly.
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Jul 18, 2020 02:16
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That makes perfect sense. I have a two car garage, so should be plenty of storage. What would be a good ladder set up for around the home? My biggest priority is getting on the roof through the patio so I can apply some roof tar. I also have some smoke detector to replace that are a bit too high for step ladders.
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Jul 18, 2020 04:56
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How pressed are you for space? If you got a 2 car garage, then you should have the space to get a regular fiberglass ladder. That is a light, insulating ladder to protect you and important bits from a shock. If not, get a folding one. Seriously, the only advantage a folding ladder has over a traditional one is if you have zero storage or if your home is some tight cornered labyrinthian maze. Folding ladders are that much of a pain to set up.
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Jul 18, 2020 06:56
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My folding ladder isn't a pain to set up I have no idea what you're talking about. Step one remove the side locks. Step two set height. Step 3 put the side locks back in. Step 3 adjust the A. I love my little giant knockoff easy to carry inside easy to use on stairs and really not a pain to set up.
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Jul 18, 2020 11:08
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tater_salad posted:My folding ladder isn't a pain to set up I have no idea what you're talking about. The bigger more robust ones are heavy as gently caress, and I pity the poor fucker who has to try to get it up a flight of stairs without knocking holes in the drywall. A lovely extension ladder you keep on the side of the house for getting up on the house, a 6' A-frame ladder you keep in the garage for anything involving the inside of the house is my go-to.
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Jul 18, 2020 11:25
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The folding ones are nice for their ability to be used on stairs as well. That's the only reason I have one, all other tasks get handled by my lightweight a frame.
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Jul 18, 2020 12:10
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I really enjoy that you can make them asymmetrical, so the side that is against something can be completely vertical and the other side is the angle to climb up. It's nice when you're working up against the house, a tree, etc. As close as an extension ladder without actually touching. They are heavy af though.
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Jul 18, 2020 12:13
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I can't recommend the free ladder I found on the side of the road enough. It's an aluminum 6ft step ladder and has to weigh all of 5 lbs. It's rickety as all gently caress, but that is literally outweighed by the ability to pick it up with one hand. Like it's so light, it's ethereal. Re: sawstop chat. I've had one for over a year and used it extensively in that time. I bought it used from a ~serious woodworker~ who had it for 4+ years. I'm sure it's never had the belt changed and it's on the original cartridge. I've had two faults, but both were caught at startup and just wouldn't allow the motor to turn on, but the cartridge didn't fire. As an engineer I think they are incredibly well thought out, the electronics controlling the thing are blindingly simple/stupid. There really isn't a lot that can go wrong. NomNomNom fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jul 18, 2020 |
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Jul 18, 2020 13:09
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tater_salad posted:My folding ladder isn't a pain to set up I have no idea what you're talking about. Neither is mine because it sits in the shed since I got it, lol. Was on sale though at Lowe's, hell! I used my 16' slider and stepladders to paint the house last year. NomNomNom posted:I can't recommend the free ladder I found on the side of the road enough. It's an aluminum 6ft step ladder and has to weigh all of 5 lbs. It's rickety as all gently caress, but that is literally outweighed by the ability to pick it up with one hand. Like it's so light, it's ethereal. If it's rickety as all gently caress, that's why you found it on the roadside. Fall awkwardly off even the 2nd step and you'll pay that thing forward too. That's why they're called widowmakers.
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Jul 18, 2020 15:53
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