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I suspect the Roman engineers would have words. They would not be kind words.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:33
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Yeah well, they've never been truly poor.
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Jul 20, 2020 03:57
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:I suspect the Roman engineers would have words. I suspect they'd have a couple pieces of lumber, a hammer, and nails too. Or a one-way ticket to The Games.
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Jul 20, 2020 04:04
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pentyne posted:I hate to be all "classic Liberal arts major" but he really embodies the stereotypes that everyone hates about the literati type who scoff and mock the idea of 'rigid thinking' when it comes to any development process. Also the fantasy of pre-industrial societies as a bunch of morons who just slapped things together and everything always worked so who needs all this big brain notebook stuff? Nah, he has the same lackadaiscal low-effort approach to writing as he does to to chemistry. I guess it stands out a bit more as we expect scientists to be rigorous and careful and there's no as much emphasis on the idea of writing as craftmanship that takes time and practice to hone.
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Jul 20, 2020 11:02
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Rothfuss' editor comments that she hasn't seen a shred of material in nine years. https://www.facebook.com/betsy.wollheim/posts/3449737608372826 https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2020/07/patrick-rothfusss-editor-confirms-she.html
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Jul 26, 2020 22:35
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Well, that decisively kills the idea that Doors of Blah will be out in August or September, saving me a hate-read. Is Brandon Sanderson finishing this trilogy too?
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Jul 26, 2020 22:39
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I love you Rothfuss, please don’t finish the book so that I never have to hateread it.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:52
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As a kid I wanted to be a writer but stopped because it was hard work and I'm bad at it, and also stupid. Turns out I shoulda stuck with it.
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Jul 26, 2020 22:56
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Just put some cheerios boxes in random places in your house and you’re halfway to being a writer! People will think you’re quirky n poo poo
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Jul 26, 2020 23:01
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Ha, in a comment on that thread the editor speculates he may not want to even be a writer anymore. That fits with how I think of him. He’s someone who has written but is not interested in it any longer, and has no pressing financial needs making him do it. I am flummoxed by the editors insistence that “no one can write like Pat.” I dunno, you mean come up with metaphors involving the depth and width of things that aren’t measured in depth and width? Ccs fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 02:26
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Idk, a lot of his identity seems to be "I'm a writer"
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Jul 27, 2020 02:31
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Scholtz posted:Idk, a lot of his identity seems to be "I'm a writer" Oh I think he’ll continue to milk that identity, but I don’t think he’s interested in actually writing. I had a friend in college who made writing a big part of his identity but never seemed to actually write. He liked giving opinions about writing and agonizing over figuring out what to write but never wrote. I do think we’ll find out in the next year or two if there will ever be a book 3. The top comment on a reddit thread about that post is fully against Rothfuss, and one post supporting him was downvoted to all hell. People really have had enough, even the most loyal fans. The editor coming right out and saying what everyone was feeling really cements it. Ccs fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 02:37
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Scholtz posted:Idk, a lot of his identity seems to be "I'm a writer" He is interested in being known as a writer, but not in writing.
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Jul 27, 2020 02:48
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I’m also kind of confused as to how an experienced editor looked at the pacing of the first two books and didn’t foresee any problems with concluding it through. Like, remarkably little happened in the 1600 pages that exist.
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Jul 27, 2020 03:04
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Ccs posted:I’m also kind of confused as to how an experienced editor looked at the pacing of the first two books and didn’t foresee any problems with concluding it through. Like, remarkably little happened in the 1600 pages that exist. I have to imagine he sold it as a trilogy but only got paid for the first book, first book was a smash hit for genre standards, and the publishers had to drag him hard to get book 2 and when they got the final product they just didn't care and pushed it out the door. The first book isn't great but the second is actively dire. But fantasy is full of mediocre books that make ends meet. And if we extrapolate current trends, by 2030 half of all fantasy books will be written by Brandon Sanderson.
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Jul 27, 2020 03:08
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Ccs posted:Ha, in a comment on that thread the editor speculates he may not want to even be a writer anymore. That fits with how I think of him. He’s someone who has written but is not interested in it any longer, and has no pressing financial needs making him do it. Maybe they mean nobody else can write like Pat because he's just so uniquely terrible while managing to have hit the literary jackpot and sell millions of copies of his mediocre self-flagellating garbage. PJOmega posted:He is interested in being known as a writer, but not in writing. It's this, coupled with him probably realizing he's a hack. Hence his intro to Slow Regard being "well some people won't like this book and it's just because they don't understand it" because it can't be that he's a trash writer (and by putting out such a statement it makes his fans "better" because they "get it"). I just remember reading the first book, finishing it, and thinking "well maybe if the 2nd book isn't just bad Harry Potter fanfiction it'll be ok" and after Felurian and the matriarchal sex ninja society that doesn't know the basics of reproduction, I think he should've just stuck to the bad Harry Potter fanfic. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 03:59
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That article with the editor outright stating they've seen nothing since 2013 also drops the lede that both the TV show and movie have been shelved indefinitely so its as clear a sign as any that the Epic Fantasy Genre fad is over for now and whatever dreams Rothfuss had of becoming the next GRRM or Tolkien(he's got that kind of ego) are loving dead. I would go so far as to say that in the next 5 years absent a 3rd book the fanbase for Rothfuss withers away and he becomes just another washed up fantasy writer showing up to any con that will have him and try boast about his past success.
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Jul 27, 2020 04:05
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PJOmega posted:I have to imagine he sold it as a trilogy but only got paid for the first book, first book was a smash hit for genre standards, and the publishers had to drag him hard to get book 2 and when they got the final product they just didn't care and pushed it out the door. Reading her posts she seems to really see something in his prose. I’m a bit baffled but then I did read through both books and didn’t notice the glaring flaws at the time (aside from the sex fairy and ninjas) so maybe it takes a BotL type reprogramming to really come to terms with where the prose doesn’t work. 🤷♂️
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Jul 27, 2020 04:11
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Ccs posted:Reading her posts she seems to really see something in his prose. I’m a bit baffled but then I did read through both books and didn’t notice the glaring flaws at the time (aside from the sex fairy and ninjas) so maybe it takes a BotL type reprogramming to really come to terms with where the prose doesn’t work. 🤷♂️ Most fantasy prose is bad, Rothfuss prose is kind of spectacularly awful, but at least it's spectacular in some sense. If you're used to reading stuff like Harry Potter at least it sticks out.
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Jul 27, 2020 04:45
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pseudanonymous posted:Most fantasy prose is bad, Rothfuss prose is kind of spectacularly awful, but at least it's spectacular in some sense. If you're used to reading stuff like Harry Potter at least it sticks out. Also book 1 was better than book 2 and if we had gotten all three in like a five year span nobody would have taken the time to reread 1-2 to the point that all the flaws jumped out.
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Jul 27, 2020 05:57
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Ccs posted:Reading her posts she seems to really see something in his prose. I’m a bit baffled but then I did read through both books and didn’t notice the glaring flaws at the time (aside from the sex fairy and ninjas) so maybe it takes a BotL type reprogramming to really come to terms with where the prose doesn’t work. 🤷♂️ It stands out in a field full of stoic heroes heroing about in places with excessive world building. It fails, but at least it attempts to do something fanciful and emotive. It's the sort of writing that can sound beautiful until you put your brain into any gear and actually look at it. The closest true comparison I can bring is the Twilight and all of its clones protagonist. It's a bland scrawl that lacks substance that allows a reader to pour their own emotions in the moment into it. For some readers this makes the book better. It is endlessly rereadable, as every pass will leave the reader with a different impression. It allows the reader to more readily connect with the work. It isn't good. But then you're not reading fantasy for the most part because you want good. You're looking for popcorn. Escapism. Entertainment. And creating that emotional cache with the standard fantasy reader goes a long way to endearing them to the work. The people who have proselytized the Kingkiller Chronicles to me are ardent in their fervor. Their eyes alight as they talk of how it flows. How it is beautiful. Because to them it did and it was, because they brought that to the reading. And honestly, good for them. They could have brought that energy, that emotion to so many other things and been better for it. Yet they did not, and they found succor in Name of the Wind. I don't truly understand it. And none of the above is praise. To me it is the literary equivalent of eating an azure crayon and trying to tell yourself it tastes like blueberries.
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Jul 27, 2020 05:57
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She is his editor, and gets paid to say his work is good, because if it was bad, it would reflect poorly on her work as an editor. That's all there is.
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Jul 27, 2020 08:38
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Rothfuss' editor comments that she hasn't seen a shred of material in nine years. Loss of face for Rothfuss. I wonder if he'll have a response to it or if he'll shrug it off.
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Jul 27, 2020 08:48
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Rothfuss doesn't have a face, he's all beard.
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Jul 27, 2020 09:37
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HIJK posted:Loss of face for Rothfuss. I wonder if he'll have a response to it or if he'll shrug it off. Probably a pithy status update that's a story about someone he knew in college who expected everything done on time and in order who ended up failing and embarrassing themselves meanwhile the tortoise wins the race.
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Jul 27, 2020 11:23
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Rothfuss' entire prose deal is about creating the illusion of depth for poorly read nerds. Thus the baffling metaphors become Deep Literary Experiences and people can wax poetic about his prose on reddit for hours.
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Jul 27, 2020 15:38
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PJOmega posted:It isn't good. But then you're not reading fantasy for the most part because you want good. You're looking for popcorn. Escapism. Entertainment. And creating that emotional cache with the standard fantasy reader goes a long way to endearing them to the work. This is absolutely it. If you're not consuming beyond a surface level, you don't care that "It was heavy as a great river-smooth stone" means absolutely nothing. You consume the line, it generates an image/emotion/feeling that contributes to the narrative, and you move onto the next line. Part of the reason his work is so enjoyable is that he packs in a *lot* of those lines. I honestly think that he has some genuine raw talent. He's just hit that first peak in the dunning-kruger curve and has enough fanboys to shake off any of those nagging feelings like he could be doing better.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:01
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Kchama posted:She is his editor, and gets paid to say his work is good, because if it was bad, it would reflect poorly on her work as an editor. That's all there is. And also because if she said anything about the prose other than how great it was the odds of Rothfuss sending her something would drop from .00005% to 0.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:13
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Dienes posted:And also because if she said anything about the prose other than how great it was the odds of Rothfuss sending her something would drop from .00005% to 0. Even with the pandering that mere fact shes even saying this is extremely damning because his editor, the one person in the world who should know what is going on with his book, is completely out of the loop and even says "yeah, maybe someday I'll get to see it" like she's not even expecting him to ever submit pages. Rothfuss can say whatever he wants, but the professional business connection who is supposed to know the status of his 3rd book is clear that nothing has been done for over 7 years to their knowledge. If he is working on it, bypassing his editor is a pretty bad sign itself.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:29
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I can absolutely see the editor getting an email from Rothfuss next week with the first draft of the third book attached. The attachment is a one page word document ranting about how she is a talentless wench how dare she publish something so libelous does she not understand writing is an art it is the slow drip of water eroding the boulder to reveal the art underneath Patrick Rothfuss will not be disrespected like this
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Jul 27, 2020 18:20
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I read the two books a couple of years ago just after the birth of my second child, as I needed to snack-read something at night. I confess that I enjoyed the first book and some of the second book, but even my sleep deprived brain went "wait what" at fuckfairy and gipsy murders, and every time D.. enna? Dinah? appeared, I'd get an urge to fast forward past her parts. I was vaguely disappointed that there was no third book, but after thinking a bit more about what I'd just read, I decided that it was all for the best. Mzuri fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 18:54
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Ccs posted:Reading her posts she seems to really see something in his prose. I’m a bit baffled but then I did read through both books and didn’t notice the glaring flaws at the time (aside from the sex fairy and ninjas) so maybe it takes a BotL type reprogramming to really come to terms with where the prose doesn’t work. 🤷♂️ I suspect/hope it's just her being diplomatic, since if you think someone you edit for someone writes like poo poo but they sell millions of books, you aren't going to burn that bridge if you want to keep your job. Also if you think their writing is poo poo and you greenlight it anyways that's not a good look for you as an editor. Mzuri posted:I read the two books a couple of years ago just after the birth of my second child, as I needed to snack-read something at night. I confess that I enjoyed the first book and some of the second book, but even my sleep deprived brain went "wait what" at fuckfairy and gipsy murders, and every time D.. enna? Dinah? appeared, I'd get an urge to fast forward past her parts.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:
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Jul 27, 2020 19:42
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Evil Fluffy posted:I suspect/hope it's just her being diplomatic, since if you think someone you edit for someone writes like poo poo but they sell millions of books, you aren't going to burn that bridge if you want to keep your job. Also if you think their writing is poo poo and you greenlight it anyways that's not a good look for you as an editor. A lot of the comments in the reddit threads say that coming from an editor, language like that is shocking and extreme. Rothfuss' claimed big draft stack he was circulating to his beta readers was either tossed out entirely, or never existed in the first place. People claiming to work in editing chime in to talk about possible issues that can arise with difficult authors but even still seeing nothing for 9 years is a huge red flag. Someone said that this is the difference between professional genre writers and Rothfuss. The hard workers churn out good-decent books on a consistent schedule, putting in the work. Rothfuss kind of lucked into his success and fame and has been coasting on the praise for a solid decade expecting to be the Big Name in fantasy but as of now all the grand plans for Kingkiller have been shelved, LMM dropped out of his involvement after effusive praise of the books, and there's nothing going on in the cultural consciousness to bring in new readers or keep fans engaged.
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Jul 27, 2020 21:48
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https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/hyqfqp/it_is_perfectly_possible_to_say_authors_dont_owe/ Discussion here is interesting. One of the reddit users posits that Rothfuss is using sock puppets to make people feel sorry for him. Wouldn't surprise me if that was true though of course there's no way to tell.
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Jul 28, 2020 02:55
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HIJK posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/hyqfqp/it_is_perfectly_possible_to_say_authors_dont_owe/ Looking at those comments I'd completely forgotten about his charity that... doesn't come across as much of a charity to put it nicely.
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Jul 28, 2020 03:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:Looking at those comments I'd completely forgotten about his charity that... doesn't come across as much of a charity to put it nicely. This prompted me to go through their most recent tax filings and...uh...yeah, you hit the nail on the head here. Very Trumpian, assuming I"m reading this correctly. $26k given out in grants and $524k in operating expenses against $700k revenue for 2018. Fuckin' yikes. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 03:38
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Man I thought he was just lazy but he might be a legitimately bad person if he’s misusing charity funds like that.
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Jul 28, 2020 03:56
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On the one hand, he doesn't take a salary. On the other hand, the charity pays him $85k for rent.
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Jul 28, 2020 04:03
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His charity is literally "give me money, so I can take a cut and then give the rest to this other charity that already exists."
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Jul 28, 2020 05:07
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