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Agree.
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Jul 29, 2020 21:22
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Giorno's Dio-ness is very important and I don't think you can just remove his heritage and have the same character because none of the other jojos even have that specific kind of charisma and leadership that was attributed to Dio. The only other one is Jonathan and that tracks with what Giorno has. The story is always doing something with Giorno's willingness to just let himself get hosed up even before he finds out a way he can heal others. I don't think it is an accident that the story is a retelling of the story of Stardust Crusaders and is about the son of "God" searching through Italy for the Devil so that they can remove the Devil's influence and provide protection for all through repeated self-sacrifice to inspire others. He's just Jesus.
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Jul 29, 2020 21:32
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FirstAidKite posted:Giorno's Dio-ness is very important and I don't think you can just remove his heritage and have the same character because none of the other jojos even have that specific kind of charisma and leadership that was attributed to Dio. The only other one is Jonathan and that tracks with what Giorno has. Giorno is not in any way a Christ figure, Jesus did actually die for humanity's sake, Giorno not only lives but he seizes the power to make himself invincible and a king among men. The tension in the ending comes from the fact that he's now uncontestable in his prominence and Italy will have to live by his will. If you want a historical comparison a closer one would be Julius Caesar, who also overthrew Roman government and named himself dictator. Or if you want to look at another famous fictional character ... 
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Jul 29, 2020 21:49
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multijoe posted:Giorno is not in any way a Christ figure, Jesus did actually die for humanity's sake, Giorno not only lives but he seizes the power to make himself invincible and a king among men. Can't the same be said for Christ?
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Jul 29, 2020 22:07
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FirstAidKite posted:Can't the same be said for Christ? An American Protestant might say no and get into the nitty gritty of where/when Christ reigns and suck you into a bible conversation you don't want to have, and probably quote scripture at you about how he didn't come to build a kingdom on earth, but in heaven, blah blah blah blah blah An outsider from a very different cultural background, doing research and providing their perspective from the outside of such a culture, might say yes. e: Also if Araki really wanted to commit to the jesus/devil thing he missed a big opportunity with Jesus in the desert for 40 days being tempted by satan
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Jul 29, 2020 22:12
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FirstAidKite posted:Can't the same be said for Christ? No Jesus willingly sacrified himself for humanity, he didn't kill Pontius Pilate, take over the Roman army and declare himself emperor of Judaea. If there's a christ Jojo it's Jonathan, who was a supremely benevolent guy who sacrificed his own life for the sake of others. Giorno desires authority and power and his arc ends on a very bad vibe with him refusing to take Polnareff's advice to cast it aside and the only other survivor from Bruno's crew looking on uneasily as he makes himself the new Diavolo (Devil). There's nothing Christ-like about it.
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Jul 29, 2020 22:19
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It isn't an exact 1:1 thing. I think Giorno can invoke Christ-like imagery and be a Christ-like figure while still not doing the exact things Christ would do if Part 5 were a 1:1 retelling of Christ. Giorno didn't even kill Diavolo. Giorno doesn't even know what he did to Diavolo, just that it is taken care of now. Instead of reaching the afterlife surrounded by lots of religious imagery like Bruno, Diavolo instead gets to suffer a variety of different tortures for eternity. FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 23:52
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Oh my god Giorno is not a goddamn Christ figure.
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Jul 29, 2020 23:54
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Part 5 had a literal Christ like figure at the very end and stories are only allowed one, it's the rules.
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Jul 29, 2020 23:59
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i think giorno is cool. where does this fit in the conversation
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Jul 29, 2020 23:59
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giorno giovanna miku binder
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Jul 30, 2020 00:00
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what if giorno was black and did raps about american history in a play written by extremely woke playwright lin manuel miranda
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Jul 30, 2020 00:00
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Aurora posted:what if giorno was black and did raps about american history in a play written by extremely woke playwright lin manuel miranda it's 2020 you fool, you're speaking some LMM/araki collab into existence FirstAidKite posted:Giorno doesn't even know what he did to Diavolo
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Jul 30, 2020 00:09
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I don't know why some people seem to be mad or annoyed about it. Like, Italy is rich in Christian mythology, the names were very specifically chosen, Giorno's name's roots are biblical. Like, no he isn't a 1:1 Christ replacement, but in a story that has all kinds of significant references to religion by an author who has made significant references to religion in his work, I don't understand why it seems so crazy of an idea that the guy who regularly hurts himself and heals others and who intends to overthrow the devil happens to be in some way Christ-like. e: it was my mistake for saying it as "he's just Jesus" and I should have worded it better because he isn't just Jesus, I just mean that he's a Jesus type character. FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 00:09
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:it's 2020 you fool, you're speaking some LMM/araki collab into existence At least Joseph has some idea  He knows Kars went into space and he certainly hasn't come back.Hell if Giorno knows anything other than "I should be very afraid of my own stand now because holy poo poo what did it just do" lol
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Jul 30, 2020 00:11
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there's literally the scene where giorno is holding a bleeding-out mista in repose in his arms as the rising sun forms a halo behind his head
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Jul 30, 2020 00:20
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Johnny Joestar posted:there's literally the scene where giorno is holding a bleeding-out mista in repose in his arms as the rising sun forms a halo behind his head so mista is jesus and giorno is mary?
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Jul 30, 2020 00:28
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 e: alternately, Mista is Lazarus
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Jul 30, 2020 00:46
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I'm not a religious guy but I think the story of Christ is just a little more complicated than *list of stock standard shounen protagonist traits* loving Josuke fits that better than Giorno
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Jul 30, 2020 00:49
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it's blindingly clear that giorno was intended to evoke a lot of christ-like poo poo by araki whether this was successfully or competently done is the real argument, but it was absolutely the intent
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Jul 30, 2020 00:59
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Giorno is good. His bananagun was good. Bricksnake owns actually. That pose w him and Mista in Green Day is iconic. He loves his friends. I love that they have to break the whole world practically just to tell guys who sit at the top of the world w all the money and power to gently caress off, and that they pull it off is a gently caress yeah moment.
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Jul 30, 2020 01:21
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Patware posted:it's blindingly clear that giorno was intended to evoke a lot of christ-like poo poo by araki yeah i mean none of it was done really well but a lot of it was pretty obvious. it's like, christianity filtered purely through a weird second-hand interpretation of historical italian poo poo except that giorno is still a shonen protagonist that wasn't pure enough to selflessly sacrifice himself like jonathan if only because his dad was a megalomaniac vampire named after the italian word for god.
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Jul 30, 2020 01:23
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I think it says alot about GioGio's characterization ppl can have this many readings of him. It's cool. Pt 5's ambiguity works out for it in the long run, gives it a different type of spookiness and atmosphere compared to other arcs. Pt 5 is in a close tie w 4 for my fave part animated so far. Really don't have many complaints
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Jul 30, 2020 01:26
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Pootybutt posted:I think it says alot about GioGio's characterization ppl can have this many readings of him. It's cool. Pt 5's ambiguity works out for it in the long run, gives it a different type of spookiness and atmosphere compared to other arcs. I mean, it's not his characterization as far as it's his lack of characterization. Turns out you can read nearly anything into a character who's basically a blank slate.
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Jul 30, 2020 01:51
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Remember when Jesus turned the pee into jellyfish
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Jul 30, 2020 01:55
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And lo, Christ did withdraw coolly for three days and three nights
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Jul 30, 2020 02:11
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And so Christ told his disciples, 'They'll never catch us if our cars are frogs' And then Judas spoke, 'Jesus your power is so loving stupid. I loving hate you so much stop using it"
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Jul 30, 2020 02:48
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Funky Valentine posted:And so Christ told his disciples, 'They'll never catch us if our cars are frogs'
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Jul 30, 2020 03:05
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TheLoneStar posted:I don't remember Fugo being so mean. https://twitter.com/WeedVentoAureo/status/737868911908118530
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Jul 30, 2020 03:13
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Didn't know that was a tweet. I was just making a joke about the dropped Fugo betraying the team plotline.
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Jul 30, 2020 03:33
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vento aureo blazed is always a fantastic read
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Jul 30, 2020 03:41
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:Remember when Jesus turned the pee into jellyfish no it was wine
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Jul 30, 2020 03:50
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Patware posted:it's blindingly clear that giorno was intended to evoke a lot of christ-like poo poo by araki Araki did actually write a character in Vento Aureo who selflessly gave up this life their life for others, only to be resurrected and then ascend to heaven shortly after - Bruno, so I'm not buying Araki meant to make Giorno a Christ analogue but was too stupid/culturally illiterate to do so. To take it back to Berserk Griffith has a ton of incredibly on the nose Chris imagery in the Falcon of the New Millenium arc and if you've read Berserk you know Griffith isn't the messiah but the Anti-Christ and the imagery is depicting how he feels about himself and the impression he wants to give others rather than the author just telling you 'halo = son of god'. So with Giorno, another man of limitless ambition and unnatural charisma it's worth asking if the Christ imagery he's depicted in is saying 'yes he's Jesus' or 'this guy has a God complex' because considering where his arc ends up I'd say it points towards the latter
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Jul 30, 2020 08:36
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giorno is peter and polnareff is uhhhh moses
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Jul 30, 2020 09:07
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Aurora posted:giorno is peter and polnareff is uhhhh moses nah, polnareff is joe
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Jul 30, 2020 09:19
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multijoe posted:To take it back to Berserk Griffith has a ton of incredibly on the nose Chris imagery in the Falcon of the New Millenium arc and if you've read Berserk you know Griffith isn't the messiah but the Anti-Christ and the imagery is depicting how he feels about himself and the impression he wants to give others rather than the author just telling you 'halo = son of god'. So with Giorno, another man of limitless ambition and unnatural charisma it's worth asking if the Christ imagery he's depicted in is saying 'yes he's Jesus' or 'this guy has a God complex' because considering where his arc ends up I'd say it points towards the latter so what you're saying is that the depiction of griffith intentionally evoked a bunch of christ-like poo poo
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Jul 30, 2020 10:13
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actually i think we're overlooking that the real christ figure in dio's line of relationships is pucci
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Jul 30, 2020 10:24
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kira's dad is the holy ghost not reimi
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Jul 30, 2020 10:31
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Patware posted:so what you're saying is that the depiction of griffith intentionally evoked a bunch of christ-like poo poo Sure, but evoking Christ imagery is not the same as implying a character is a Christ figure.
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Jul 30, 2020 11:37
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multijoe posted:Sure, but evoking Christ imagery is not the same as implying a character is a Christ figure. what does it mean about a character if Christ imagery is invoked pertaining to them
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Jul 30, 2020 15:20
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