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I most sincerely wish for the sequence where Lan tells Rand to act like a Lord of the Borderlands when shoving him in front of the audience with the Amyrlin to make it in exactly as is. "There is one rule, above all others, for being a man. Whatever comes, face it on your feet. Now, are you ready? The Amyrlin Seat waits." VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 14, 2020 |
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Aug 14, 2020 15:46
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I most sincerely wish for the sequence where Lan tells Rand to act like a Lord of the Borderlands when shoving him in front of the audience with the Amyrlin to make it in exactly as is.  One thing I noticed in my re-read was how few moments of genuine friendship there are in Jordan’s books. There are moments like that between Lan and Rand, but most of the time Jordan would fade to black, like when Perrin returns from the Two Rivers or when Rand would hang out with the Aiel leaders about alcohol, tabac and other fine things.
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Aug 14, 2020 15:57
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Maiden's Kiss is the friendliest game of all! Also I'd say the entire journey where Rand hauls Hungover Mat around after Aridhol is very much the boyish road trip friendship trope.
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Aug 14, 2020 16:04
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I find there to be plenty in the early books, lessenong as time goes by and the main characters become increasingly Important people.
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Aug 14, 2020 17:00
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Prairie Bus posted:
I've made the same observation. It's so bleak and misanthrophic with such little joy so constantly. It's almost as bad as Game of Thrones. I might need a break after 6. I think Jordan has some issues concerning male and female relationships that are really coming across in this book specifically. I get that the central core of this series is Male vs. Female, but the entirety of Altara is really 
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Aug 14, 2020 20:59
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Famethrowa posted:I've made the same observation. It's so bleak and misanthrophic with such little joy so constantly. It's almost as bad as Game of Thrones. There’s a lot of flab in the middle of the series, and I felt similar to you in about the same spot. They spend so much time in Ebou Dar. But at least you’ve got Dumai’s Wells ahead of you, that’ll be a lot of fun and joy. I wish Sanderson had leaned more into the “bright” side of things. His scene with Rand and Nynaeve before she leaves to return to the White Tower is one of my favorite scenes in the series. He was a lot more willing to put friendship on the screen, and I’d have loved to see more of what these people were fighting for. Not that there was much room in AMoL.
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Aug 14, 2020 21:20
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Rand and Mat's little exchange over who had done the most impressively heroic things was probably the high point of the series for me, I wish there had been a lot more bro moments like that.
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Aug 14, 2020 21:49
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I'm...gonna pay close attention to my current reread because I don't have the impression of complete lack of joy you all seem to.
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Aug 14, 2020 21:50
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silvergoose posted:I'm...gonna pay close attention to my current reread because I don't have the impression of complete lack of joy you all seem to. It's not that its not there, it's that the few flashes of humor are usually at someone's expense or pain. The number of times Jordan tries to play off some horrible spanking and the pain afterwards as humor is kinda disturbing. CainsDescendant posted:Rand and Mat's little exchange over who had done the most impressively heroic things was probably the high point of the series for me, I wish there had been a lot more bro moments like that. yeah exactly. I want more of this.
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Aug 14, 2020 22:05
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If Moiraine's telling of the story of Manetheren doesn't summon tears, the whole thing is worthless imo. I've read Eye of the World so many times that I can practically recite it by heart and that scene gets. me. every. time.
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Aug 14, 2020 22:11
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silvergoose posted:I'm...gonna pay close attention to my current reread because I don't have the impression of complete lack of joy you all seem to. Yeah I think a lot of it is a ... stiff upper lip ... kind of way? Or "Aiel humor" like when Bain and Chiad are teasing Gaul.
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Aug 14, 2020 22:50
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I mean, the dry deadpan Aiel humor is exactly my kind of humor so maybe there's just enough of that for me...
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Aug 14, 2020 23:17
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Only time it gets kinda bleak for me is when Rand is in his very edgy emo phase. He becomes a lot better character after he finds his Jesus moment.
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Aug 14, 2020 23:25
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silvergoose posted:I mean, the dry deadpan Aiel humor is exactly my kind of humor so maybe there's just enough of that for me... Gaul complimenting Perrin on his mighty victory in response to him eating a breakfast ham solo is peak Aiel.
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Aug 14, 2020 23:32
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Invalid Validation posted:Only time it gets kinda bleak for me is when Rand is in his very edgy emo phase. He becomes a lot better character after he finds his Jesus moment. He's dead inside but without whining about it. I'm guessing Jordan had a lot of firsthand experience with PTSD
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Aug 15, 2020 00:09
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Gwaihir posted:Gaul complimenting Perrin on his mighty victory in response to him eating a breakfast ham solo is peak Aiel. Gaul is pure gold in general, he really stood out to me in my recent reread as just a really great dude
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Aug 15, 2020 00:11
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Gaul without any reservations dives into the world of dreams to fight things he can't even imagine. Dude owns. And I'm interested to see Tam's explosion at Cadsuane. It's such a fantastic scene. "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HIM?!?!"
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Aug 15, 2020 00:15
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Towards the end I kinda forgot that Perrin saved Gaul from the cage which is why he stays with him. They end up being such good buds it kinda feels like they grew up with each other.
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Aug 15, 2020 00:28
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Yeah I think a lot of it is a ... stiff upper lip ... kind of way? Or "Aiel humor" like when Bain and Chiad are teasing Gaul. What keyed me into it was Sanderson introducing Androl and the Black Tower Boys in... ToM? When Sanderson first brings in Androl there’s an immediate sense of egalitarian companionship. It’s that “band of brothers” shtick, which I think Sanderson likes to write. It made me realize- across all of Jordan’s books, he’d never really shown that kind of friendship. Compare Rand and Hurin in TGH. They’re friends, but Hurin is immediately identified as subservient, looking up to Rand for direction. Ingtar was on the same level as Rand, but it’s still not “friendship” in the modern sense. Or look at Perrin’s closest friend, Gaul. It’s a very subdued relationship, largely paid off in Sanderson’s work (that one might be Aiel). Matt’s got the closest to modern friends, but even then most of the fun Talmanes stuff is In Sanderson’s work. The same is true for the boys together. Rand and Mat spend books 4 & 5 physically very close, but their scenes are rarely together. When they are together it’s mostly suspicion. When Perrin and Rand meet up the focus is on how Faile thinks Min is after Perrin and then planning, before we get a sentence or two just stating that they went on to hang out together. Thinking about it, it might have been intentional - modern friendships are based in part in modern humor, which wouldn’t have been the humor of the era. Still, it’s a striking absence, well worth noting.
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Aug 15, 2020 00:29
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Yea I do feel like all the boys were kept too far from each other through most of the books. Especially since half the time Perrin and May keep talking about Rand needing them only to then wander off to do something else instead.
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Aug 15, 2020 00:35
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Actually that one bit where Androl is like 'that guy was dumb as rocks, he probably still will be now he's evil' is hilarious
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Aug 15, 2020 00:48
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CainsDescendant posted:Gaul is pure gold in general, he really stood out to me in my recent reread as just a really great dude Some of my favorite Wheel characters are ones like Gaul, Flinn, and Dobraine. With all of the other characters sabotaging each other and not communicating, its nice to see them just hanging out in the mid-ground, being unobtrusively competent and supportive. Berelain has the same vibe some of the time when she's with Rand, after their unfortunate first meeting. When she's with Perrin... not so much.
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Aug 15, 2020 01:06
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Anias posted:That scene made me go reread the prologue of EotW. Jordan's word of God is that it was not balefire.
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Aug 15, 2020 01:32
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I never thought it was tbh, it sounded like what happened to the Queen of Manetheren
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Aug 15, 2020 01:39
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Actually that one bit where Androl is like 'that guy was dumb as rocks, he probably still will be now he's evil' is hilarious That bit is loving perfect.
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Aug 15, 2020 02:32
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Gaul and Talmanes are probably my favorite secondary characters, because they're total bros and funny as hell.
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Aug 15, 2020 02:35
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I didn’t really think too much of Talmanes until closer to the end and he really Sanderson really did turn him into one of the greats. That Andor raid was really fuckin good.
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Aug 15, 2020 02:56
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at the end of knife of dreams and i'm sad to reach the end of jordan's books 
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Aug 15, 2020 03:11
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Does Min ever become bearable? The manic pixie tomboy stuff is getting old.
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Aug 15, 2020 03:14
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Johnny Joestar posted:at the end of knife of dreams and i'm sad to reach the end of jordan's books
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Aug 15, 2020 03:20
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IDK man, after powering through the entire thing front to back in the last couple months it doesn't feel like "couldn't write the existing ones" as much as just "They've finally reached the conclusions of their arcs and we're getting all the satisfying payoffs to these mature characters at long last"
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Aug 15, 2020 03:27
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i don't particularly have a problem with sanderson, for the record. it's mainly just sad to know that jordan's heart seized up after putting this out. sanderson had a tall order, and from what i remember he tied things up neatly enough from the bits i read forever ago.
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Aug 15, 2020 03:32
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Yeah honestly it's clearly obviously a matter of taste. I don't personally get the hate, but I also don't get the hate for Sanderson's other work and there's a lot of fantasy snobs who like to hate on it.
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Aug 15, 2020 03:35
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He does fight scenes pretty good. You can definitely tell when the changeover happens but all in all it settles pretty good all things considering. It is a shame Jordan didn’t get to finish it though. Guess fantasy writers need to learn not to write a thousand book series.
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Aug 15, 2020 03:42
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I'm glad we got an ending, but I found Sanderson stuff a pretty big slog to get through.
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Aug 15, 2020 03:42
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Colonel Cool posted:I'm glad we got an ending, but I found Sanderson stuff a pretty big slog to get through.  I don't get this take, like, at *all*. Gathering storm onwards are full of nonstop loving incredible scenes. Maybe a bit of the time spent in Arad Doman is a bit slow but jeeze. There's Verin's revelation, Rand's meeting with Tuon, the entire White Tower fight, and finally Rand breaking free of his crippling depression and PTSD is like the biggest possible release of tension in the entire series. Towers of Midnight is on a whole new level of it's own, again.
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Aug 15, 2020 04:16
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Sanderson isn’t a bad author, but he can make Jordan look capable of brevity. The single scene from one of Jordan’s last books where Nynaeve goes out to assemble the borderlands army ruled. Then Sanderson spends 4-5 scenes showing how that happens in detail. It’s tedious and lessens the impact of one of the best scenes in the books.
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Aug 15, 2020 04:21
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Prairie Bus posted:Sanderson isn’t a bad author, but he can make Jordan look capable of brevity. The single scene from one of Jordan’s last books where Nynaeve goes out to assemble the borderlands army ruled. Then Sanderson spends 4-5 scenes showing how that happens in detail. It’s tedious and lessens the impact of one of the best scenes in the books. Hard disagree. To compare to the LOTR films, we'd lose a ton if you just showed Pippin and Gandalf lighting one beacon fire. Instead we get that amazing span shot of beacon after beacon alighting until Rohan sees it and Theoden declares he will ride. Sanderson shows Nyneave lighting the beacon by declaring that the Golden Crane rides for the Last Battle, but we don't get the full impact until we see the entire thing. Just skipping to Lan having an army cheapens it.
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Aug 15, 2020 04:41
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I don’t know I rather enjoyed him picking up people heading towards the borderlands.
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Aug 15, 2020 04:44
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Gnoman posted:Hard disagree. To compare to the LOTR films, we'd lose a ton if you just showed Pippin and Gandalf lighting one beacon fire. Instead we get that amazing span shot of beacon after beacon alighting until Rohan sees it and Theoden declares he will ride. Sanderson shows Nyneave lighting the beacon by declaring that the Golden Crane rides for the Last Battle, but we don't get the full impact until we see the entire thing. Just skipping to Lan having an army cheapens it. Differing tastes I’d guess. You’re still describing a single scene. If it were 5 scenes spread across a book as long as the complete Lord of the Rings, I’d think it sucked too.
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Aug 15, 2020 05:06
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