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waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Looks like a second ProMaster memory card just decided to die on me. Does anyone have experience with ProGrade cards as a brand? I’m looking for a solid UHS II V60 or better option.

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Hello Spaceman
Jan 18, 2005

hop, skip, and jumpgate

Dangerllama posted:

Looks like a second ProMaster memory card just decided to die on me. Does anyone have experience with ProGrade cards as a brand? I’m looking for a solid UHS II V60 or better option.

i have never heard of either of those brands
what's wrong with just a sandisk, sony or samsung card? i use those and never had an issue. even my ancient sandisk 2gb sd cards are still chugging along

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Hello Spaceman posted:

i have never heard of either of those brands
what's wrong with just a sandisk, sony or samsung card? i use those and never had an issue. even my ancient sandisk 2gb sd cards are still chugging along

ProMaster is a house brand for Mike’s Camera and others, I think. ProGrade is supposed to be a newcomer but targeting the higher end market. They’re about 50-60% of the price of SanDisk, but I can’t tell if that’s because they’re trying to grab market share because of the SanDisk price premium, or if they’re compromising on hardware or QA.

I don’t need THE BEST cards in all the land, but will settle for something that will shoot 4K @ 60fps, or high speed burst without locking up on me. These ProMaster cards don’t seem to be up to it.

Sauer
Sep 13, 2005

Socialize Everything!
Are you destroying your cards every few weeks for the fun of it? If not buy a reputable brand that will last you a few years.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.
Flash is one of those things where there's kind of a base materials cost for something of a certain quality, and if you're selling well below that there's probably a reason. I would not try to cheap out on something that all your photos will be saved to.

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
Yeah, you can get a Sony V60 UHS-2 128GB card for $50 at Best Buy. The 128GB ProMaster one is $220 at Mike’s Camera.

Don’t buy the no-name brand for quadruple the price.

waffle enthusiast
Nov 16, 2007



Arcsech posted:

Yeah, you can get a Sony V60 UHS-2 128GB card for $50 at Best Buy. The 128GB ProMaster one is $220 at Mike’s Camera.

Don’t buy the no-name brand for quadruple the price.

Yeah. I just went with whatever card they recommended at Mike’s when I bought the camera last year, which was a mistake.

Thanks for the info on the Sony cards. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of 128g M Tough cards.

Ineptitude
Mar 2, 2010

Heed my words and become a master of the Heart (of Thorns).
Been a while since i used Lightroom (classic) and as such Creative Cloud has not been running.

I was using LR 8.1.

I got the update prompt and updated, LR’s icon changed and it updated to 9.2.
When checking available updates in CC however it says i still have an update available, to LR 8.3.

Not sure what the deal here is? Is LR 8.x and 9.x 2 different apps now? Should i «update» my 9.2 to 8.3?

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Sometimes it leaves the old copy of LR installed as an option if you want to roll back, it might be nagging you to update that. In CC under the "All apps" page click the three little dots. There's an 'other versions' options in there to see if you have anything else installed.

Ineptitude
Mar 2, 2010

Heed my words and become a master of the Heart (of Thorns).
It says i have a copy of LR 7.1, but in the update screen it wants to update from 8.1, welp.

I'll just uninstall the old one, i don't need that for anything do i? As long as my LR is not that cloud based thing im fine.

alkanphel
Mar 24, 2004

Isn't the last non-cloud LR 6.14?

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost
As long as you’re using Lightroom Classic it’s not the cloud/mobile version that you’re scared of.

They keep updating classic but the new version gets most of the attention.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

That doesn't mean Classic is ignored. It's had some pretty solid feature updates in the last couple years. There's a lot of very good competition in the market now which is great, but I feel LR Classic is still the most complete package out there.

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)
Plus it supports plugins.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Unless I'm going crazy, LR Classic also had a UX redo in the past week or so. Now there's no 'Done' button when using one of the tools (crop, graduated filter, brush), you just click on the tool button again to confirm the change. All the stuff that used to go just above the film strip has been rejigged.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Done button is still there for me, and clicking the tool button again has worked for many years now.

So maybe you hit one of the billion hotkeys or shrank the panel that the Done button appears on.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

xzzy posted:

Done button is still there for me, and clicking the tool button again has worked for many years now.

So maybe you hit one of the billion hotkeys or shrank the panel that the Done button appears on.

After searching all the menus and preference panels, that seems to be exactly what I did.

Serendipitaet
Apr 19, 2009
Are there any good and, if this still exists, not subscription-based photo organizing and editing tools?

I don't need powerful editing rather than organizing functions. Eliminating duplicates and changing timestamps are probably the most important features.

I have a bunch (probably between 100 and 200GB by a rough estimate? so not a huge amount) of lovely photos from various sources (my first DSLR, various generations of camera phones, phone cameras etc.) strewn about various storage media (internal and external hard drives, cloud storage) that I would like to once and for all consolidate into one collection, which I can then organize and clean up. A tiny fraction of these photos have little sentimental value but I consider them 'good', a decent portion have sentimental value and a lot are just crap I need to delete.

My plan is to first consolidate all the files as I have them on an external HD (and to make a backup), organize the collection, edit some of the nice ones to make prints, and to store it on a more suitable long-term storage that is not primarily a subscription service (thinking a NAS with a backup service here).

For most of my early DSLR stuff I used probably a cracked version of Lightroom. Then my win xp desktop died and I started using Aperture / Apple Photos. Then my macbook died and I'm back to windows, and now the situation is as above. I pretty much gave up :effort: photography once I got serious about uni, definitely once I started working. I also didnt have / want to spend money on a proper data stage. But now I realize that I am getting old and treasure these memories of my youth gone past, so I want to preserve them. Ideally without uploading pictures all of my friends from school doing dumb teenager poo poo to some face recognition database and paying in perpetuity (or until the service gets shut down). :)

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost
You can honestly get away with using a few freeware utilities.

First get your hard drive ready and copy all your pictures there. Don’t worry about their organization, just throw them on there.

Then use something like https://dupeguru.voltaicideas.net to remove all the dupes.

Finally something like https://www.advancedrenamer.com to rename + move all the remaining files into their final destination based on whatever metadata. (Grab metadata from EXIF tool: https://www.advancedrenamer.com/user_guide/exiftool)

Should leave you with a nicely organized set of photos that you can browse through and edit using whatever free editing software does what you need to do.

I haven’t used any of these things and I imagine it will be some work to get everything done properly.

tk fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Sep 20, 2020

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
Not exactly a photography question, but I was looking to add some frame lines over the rear screen on my camera by marking them on a screen protector or other film... somehow? Does anyone have any ideas on I could accomplish this?

The space outside the lines needs to be visible for menus, but I wouldn't mind it partially obscured, so maybe some colored translucent film cut to shape. I am not sure what material I could use for this either.

Or I could get a transparency sheet printed (and cut the middle out), but what type of adhesive can I use that could still be safely removed later?

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib

Serendipitaet posted:

Are there any good and, if this still exists, not subscription-based photo organizing and editing tools?

I don't need powerful editing rather than organizing functions. Eliminating duplicates and changing timestamps are probably the most important features.

If *all* you need is a way to deal with duplicates and general file-organisation, Windows Explorer + a few free programs might be good enough, as described.

If you want something that's LIKE LightRoom but is NOT Adobe and is NOT an ongoing cost every day/week/month/year/whatever, then there are a few options.
Disclaimer: I hate Adobe's subscription-based business model and I refuse to support it. This is also why I have Apache Open Office as well as my employer-supplied MicroSoft Office 365 package, if/when I change jobs I won't lose access to everything I've written. Perhaps I'm paranoid. Whatever.

I use ACDSee Photo Studio Professional, 2020 version (they're pushing the 2021 version right now, I probably won't bother to upgrade). ACDSee comes in three flavours: Home, Professional, and Ultimate. I'm happy with Professional, right in the middle. Home doesn't do non-destructive editing (i.e. changes you make in the editor are applied to the original file), and lacks a few other features, and Ultimate adds editing with layers. Almost everything I do to a photo is covered by white balance, a slightly more sophisticated approach to brightness and contrast (I like to crunch up the blacks, because I'm secretly a goth, I guess), crop / rotate, and spot removal. I don't need layers for any of that and Ultimate is more expensive.

I used to have Corel Aftershot Pro (cue "LOL Corel"), but I had a problem with it and their customer service in that instance was poo poo. So I went elsewhere. Now I can't even remember the issue but I think it was based on a Windows update that hosed with how Aftershot initialised and trying to run it would crash my computer. The issue was eventually solved with an update to Aftershot but the runaround I got from their tech support was very annoying.

Either of those will set you back less than $100, for software that's always yours and you never need to pay another dime if you don't want to. If you do want to upgrade, existing owners get a discount on updated versions of the software. I am happy with this business model, personally.

I tried RawTheraPee, and it worked well up until I discovered there was no spot-removal tool. That was a couple of years ago, and at the time the Bearded Ones (open source software developers, they almost always have enormous facial hair. I think.) were actively discussing ways to add that function. A quick google tells me they've probably succeeded. It's free, which is a big plus.

Some people might recommend Capture One, which is considerably more expensive. It does have some features that some people find very much worth the cost, though. Given your stated requirements, I would advise against C1.

In any case, all of these programs can be tried for free. Corel and ACDSee give you 30 days or something, RawTherePee is free forever, and I don't know about C1. There are other options out there, just google "alternative to lightroom" and see what comes up.

Hello Spaceman
Jan 18, 2005

hop, skip, and jumpgate

ExecuDork posted:

If *all* you need is a way to deal with duplicates and general file-organisation, Windows Explorer + a few free programs might be good enough, as described.

If you want something that's LIKE LightRoom but is NOT Adobe and is NOT an ongoing cost every day/week/month/year/whatever, then there are a few options.
Disclaimer: I hate Adobe's subscription-based business model and I refuse to support it. This is also why I have Apache Open Office as well as my employer-supplied MicroSoft Office 365 package, if/when I change jobs I won't lose access to everything I've written. Perhaps I'm paranoid. Whatever.

I use ACDSee Photo Studio Professional, 2020 version (they're pushing the 2021 version right now, I probably won't bother to upgrade). ACDSee comes in three flavours: Home, Professional, and Ultimate. I'm happy with Professional, right in the middle. Home doesn't do non-destructive editing (i.e. changes you make in the editor are applied to the original file), and lacks a few other features, and Ultimate adds editing with layers. Almost everything I do to a photo is covered by white balance, a slightly more sophisticated approach to brightness and contrast (I like to crunch up the blacks, because I'm secretly a goth, I guess), crop / rotate, and spot removal. I don't need layers for any of that and Ultimate is more expensive.

I used to have Corel Aftershot Pro (cue "LOL Corel"), but I had a problem with it and their customer service in that instance was poo poo. So I went elsewhere. Now I can't even remember the issue but I think it was based on a Windows update that hosed with how Aftershot initialised and trying to run it would crash my computer. The issue was eventually solved with an update to Aftershot but the runaround I got from their tech support was very annoying.

Either of those will set you back less than $100, for software that's always yours and you never need to pay another dime if you don't want to. If you do want to upgrade, existing owners get a discount on updated versions of the software. I am happy with this business model, personally.

I tried RawTheraPee, and it worked well up until I discovered there was no spot-removal tool. That was a couple of years ago, and at the time the Bearded Ones (open source software developers, they almost always have enormous facial hair. I think.) were actively discussing ways to add that function. A quick google tells me they've probably succeeded. It's free, which is a big plus.

Some people might recommend Capture One, which is considerably more expensive. It does have some features that some people find very much worth the cost, though. Given your stated requirements, I would advise against C1.

In any case, all of these programs can be tried for free. Corel and ACDSee give you 30 days or something, RawTherePee is free forever, and I don't know about C1. There are other options out there, just google "alternative to lightroom" and see what comes up.

capture1 express is free for sony or fuji camera users (doubt op has that since he says dslr). regular capture 1 can be trialled for 30 days and bought outright or subscribed monthly
darktable is an oss/free lightroom clone but unsure of functionality

that's all i have

Serendipitaet
Apr 19, 2009
Cool, thanks to all for the suggestions! I’ll give some of these a shot and see how far I get.

The Hausu Usher
Feb 9, 2010

:spooky:
Screaming is the only useful thing that we can do.

I thought I was a smartarse and took a bunch of 4k photos on my GH5 during a recent trip. When organising I have noticed they are all mp4 files which Lightroom won't allow me to edit and they're a pain in the arse to sort through. Is there a way to get these files on Lightroom or recommended way to convert them to a different file type en masse?

jarlywarly
Aug 31, 2018

BisonDollah posted:

I thought I was a smartarse and took a bunch of 4k photos on my GH5 during a recent trip. When organising I have noticed they are all mp4 files which Lightroom won't allow me to edit and they're a pain in the arse to sort through. Is there a way to get these files on Lightroom or recommended way to convert them to a different file type en masse?

You took videos not photos. You can try a frame grab from them.

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
The 4k/6k photo modes store short video clips with the intent to be able to extract the right moment, so there probably isn't a great way to do so quickly as you will always have to decide which shot you would like to keep out of many.

There is a bulk save option on your camera to extract all the stills from the video clip. You could also extract frames from the videos with some other utility on your desktop, but you may find it easier to go through and select the best frame for each file in camera instead of dumping a huge number of files.

Here are some examples with ffmpeg, this would extract all frames (probably 30 per second):
code:
ffmpeg -i VIDEO_FILE -q:v 2 OUT_FILE%d.jpg
Or you could set a smaller number of frames per second to extract (here 5 fps):
code:
ffmpeg -i VIDEO_FILE -q:v 2 -vf fps=5  OUT_FILE%d.jpg
Or you could copy out just i-frames:
code:
ffmpeg -skip_frame nokey -i VIDEO_FILE -q:v 2 -vsync 0 -OUT_FILE%d.jpg

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Lightroom is supposed to support videos, so it's probably some funky codec problem.

Photoshop has rudimentary video support too.. can you open the files in that?

That Spooky Witch
Jun 16, 2017

All hail the triune god
i'm scared about sharing my photography, but i want anyone out there who would enjoy it to enjoy it, and i'm really intimidated about all the threads here but....

here's a _sample_: https://ciaraohhphotography.blogspot.com/

a lot has changed since then

and I would _love_ any and all pointers, i'm just self taught out of practice.

working with lightroom and a canon eos rebel XS, and that's all i got

edit: and just cause I'm scared, doesn't mean I'll run away from pointers, i am thirsty for knowledge

edit2: please~

That Spooky Witch fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Oct 4, 2020

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006

That Spooky Witch posted:

i'm scared about sharing my photography, but i want anyone out there who would enjoy it to enjoy it, and i'm really intimidated about all the threads here but....

here's a _sample_: https://ciaraohhphotography.blogspot.com/

a lot has changed since then

and I would _love_ any and all pointers, i'm just self taught out of practice.

working with lightroom and a canon eos rebel XS, and that's all i got

edit: and just cause I'm scared, doesn't mean I'll run away from pointers, i am thirsty for knowledge

edit2: please~

Which direction do you want to develop in? Whose work do you admire? Whose work leaves you indifferent?

Since you are self-taught, I will recommend reading at least one book: The Photographer's Eye - by Michael Freeman.

That Spooky Witch
Jun 16, 2017

All hail the triune god

theHUNGERian posted:

Which direction do you want to develop in? Whose work do you admire? Whose work leaves you indifferent?

Since you are self-taught, I will recommend reading at least one book: The Photographer's Eye - by Michael Freeman.

Thank you for the recommendation :h:

I want to go in directions that no one else has gone in. However impossible in TyooL 2020. I'll have to dig a particular work out of storage, and beyond that, a vague.... Ansel Adams...? Hard to follow individuals to me, its in the moment and the effort you put into afterwards. Some architecture strikes me, but only mostly due to architecture in the aforementioned TyooL 2020 is somewhat striking. Architecture that speaks oppression through every facade yet normalized in this day and age.


Particularly, I loath portrait photography, and any photography that's generally 'people' photography. But generalized, un-identifiable people.... i've never worked with, but would be open to.

Mostly I enjoy still life, landscape, and nature/architecture.

CodfishCartographer
Feb 23, 2010

Gadus Maprocephalus

Pillbug

That Spooky Witch posted:

Thank you for the recommendation :h:

I want to go in directions that no one else has gone in. However impossible in TyooL 2020. I'll have to dig a particular work out of storage, and beyond that, a vague.... Ansel Adams...? Hard to follow individuals to me, its in the moment and the effort you put into afterwards. Some architecture strikes me, but only mostly due to architecture in the aforementioned TyooL 2020 is somewhat striking. Architecture that speaks oppression through every facade yet normalized in this day and age.


Particularly, I loath portrait photography, and any photography that's generally 'people' photography. But generalized, un-identifiable people.... i've never worked with, but would be open to.

Mostly I enjoy still life, landscape, and nature/architecture.

It's hard to go in a direction no one else has without first understanding why people go in the directions they have. I would spend time finding photos you like, and asking yourself why you like them and why they work. Feel free to post them here with your thoughts on them. Once you know what makes those photos work, you can try applying those rules to your own photos as well.

One thing to be careful of is trying to be different for the sake of being different. If all you try is to be different, you won't make anything interesting be a use there's no other intent or message or feeling behind it. You need to be careful not to use it as a crutch or an excuse not to improve. I think it's possible to do things that haven't been done before, but it's hard and will require years of work and dedication before you get there and not have it look like you're trying to be unique for attention. You need to completely understand the rules before you try to break them.

That Spooky Witch
Jun 16, 2017

All hail the triune god

CodfishCartographer posted:

It's hard to go in a direction no one else has without first understanding why people go in the directions they have. I would spend time finding photos you like, and asking yourself why you like them and why they work. Feel free to post them here with your thoughts on them. Once you know what makes those photos work, you can try applying those rules to your own photos as well.

One thing to be careful of is trying to be different for the sake of being different. If all you try is to be different, you won't make anything interesting be a use there's no other intent or message or feeling behind it. You need to be careful not to use it as a crutch or an excuse not to improve. I think it's possible to do things that haven't been done before, but it's hard and will require years of work and dedication before you get there and not have it look like you're trying to be unique for attention. You need to completely understand the rules before you try to break them.

Feeling is what its all about~~~

But very good, thank you :h:

(there are years behind this, but woah-howdy does it not feel like it sometimes)


gently caress, fantastic advice, thank you :)

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
I'm not sure where to ask this question. I have a photo that I want to colorize but the online colorizers aren't doing a good job. And I'm not happy with my attempts to colorize it in Corel PaintshopPro. How much should I expect to pay for someone to colorize the image?

Wild EEPROM
Jul 29, 2011


oh, my, god. Becky, look at her bitrate.
If you’re gonna recommend the photographers eye at least recommend the right one, the one by john szarkowski. The other one is just a dumb technical manual on the level of “for dummies” and is a disservice to the name and to photographs

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

xzzy posted:

Lightroom is supposed to support videos, so it's probably some funky codec problem.

Photoshop has rudimentary video support too.. can you open the files in that?

Apparently a lot of people had problems with Lr not importing mp4 files. For many of them, uninstallng and reinstalling Quicktime solved it.

That Spooky Witch posted:

i'm scared about sharing my photography, but i want anyone out there who would enjoy it to enjoy it, and i'm really intimidated about all the threads here but....

here's a _sample_: https://ciaraohhphotography.blogspot.com/

a lot has changed since then

and I would _love_ any and all pointers, i'm just self taught out of practice.

working with lightroom and a canon eos rebel XS, and that's all i got

edit: and just cause I'm scared, doesn't mean I'll run away from pointers, i am thirsty for knowledge

edit2: please~
I'll preface this by saying that I'm not in love with the extreme processing choices that you made on many of the photos but that's a personal style so I'll try and stick to things that are maybe more general.
When I look at a photograph that's being presented as part of a curated series (as yours are), I want to see the story or theme of that series. I want to get a sense of what you saw and contrast that with how you chose to present it to understand the message that you are sharing. Its hard to describe how that works, but it's something you know is happening when you see it.

I liked the B&Ws, there's a lot of character in them and your choice of subject is generally very solid. I aso liked the more conservatively edited cactus shots too. What might have worked better is to present them in galleries that brought those images together rather than in one long timeline of wildly different styles mixed in at random.

You say that things have changed a lot since you published those photos, maybe post some of your newer work here and let us see your journey?

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.

That Spooky Witch posted:

i'm scared about sharing my photography, but i want anyone out there who would enjoy it to enjoy it, and i'm really intimidated about all the threads here but....

here's a _sample_: https://ciaraohhphotography.blogspot.com/

a lot has changed since then

and I would _love_ any and all pointers, i'm just self taught out of practice.
Do you have anything more recent? If your work has changed/improved since then, it'll make feedback more relevant.

If I'm honest, your strong style of processing is going to be marmite and strongly divide opinions. If that's genuinely what you like and it has meaning to you then that's fine, but I have a theory that a lot of new photographers fall back on extreme processing as a crutch for photos that aren't as strong as they hoped.

I will make one practical observation: the two newest 'landscapes' (the petrol/gas station and the long road) have wonky horizons. Making sure horizontals and horizontal and verticals are vertical, unless there's a specific artistic reason for doing so, is an easy attention to detail to implement (in-camera or in-post.)

theHUNGERian
Feb 23, 2006

Yeah, the thing with horizontals and verticals is that the image looks sloppy if they are off even just a little bit (2-10 degrees). If they are off by a lot (30 degrees), the image can perhaps look cool, but you need a good reason for doing so (simply saying that it was intentional is not good enough).

That Spooky Witch
Jun 16, 2017

All hail the triune god




theHUNGERian posted:

Yeah, the thing with horizontals and verticals is that the image looks sloppy if they are off even just a little bit (2-10 degrees). If they are off by a lot (30 degrees), the image can perhaps look cool, but you need a good reason for doing so (simply saying that it was intentional is not good enough).

by and large one of the things I spend the most time on when working, you are so right.




Helen Highwater posted:

Apparently a lot of people had problems with Lr not importing mp4 files. For many of them, uninstallng and reinstalling Quicktime solved it.

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not in love with the extreme processing choices that you made on many of the photos but that's a personal style so I'll try and stick to things that are maybe more general.
When I look at a photograph that's being presented as part of a curated series (as yours are), I want to see the story or theme of that series. I want to get a sense of what you saw and contrast that with how you chose to present it to understand the message that you are sharing. Its hard to describe how that works, but it's something you know is happening when you see it.

I liked the B&Ws, there's a lot of character in them and your choice of subject is generally very solid. I aso liked the more conservatively edited cactus shots too. What might have worked better is to present them in galleries that brought those images together rather than in one long timeline of wildly different styles mixed in at random.

You say that things have changed a lot since you published those photos, maybe post some of your newer work here and let us see your journey?

Curating them more choice-fully will definitely be a note I carry on to future projects, that site was my general anything+everything offloading medium.
Thank you for the feedback, and asking for some of my newer stuff :) :) :)





Currently, I'm tackling doing a landscape shot for somebody's back cover of a book, while these are some recent stills I have laying around.

edit2: Still living true to my style~~ that makes me so happy, I have a ~style~ thank you all :h:

edit3:



That Spooky Witch fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 4, 2020

Jupiter Jazz
Jan 13, 2007

by sebmojo
deleted

Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Oct 6, 2020

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Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Just as an FYI, the general critique and discussion thread is the Photo a Day thread.

The specific subject threads are also usually full of discussion about photos as well as some gear chat. Of particular note are the Street thread and the Film thread (if you ever break out the Spotmatic again. I find it odd that you say the cost of B&W developing is what made you move away from film, if you develop at home it's the cheapest way to shoot film that exists. Literally a few cents per roll.

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