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She pointed out to Rand that he had to break the seals and redo the prison, not just patch over the bore.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:17
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Min also changed the fashion of entire cities by giving zero fucks and just wearing pants.
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Sep 15, 2020 01:27
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All the three wives should have probably been combined. Having a harem is always weird to me cause it’s always a man who writes it and they have very little internal conflict to accepting it. Usually you have to be on a secluded compound in the middle of a Utah desert to get that kinda brainwashing.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:01
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Invalid Validation posted:All the three wives should have probably been combined. Having a harem is always weird to me cause it’s always a man who writes it and they have very little internal conflict to accepting it. Usually you have to be on a secluded compound in the middle of a Utah desert to get that kinda brainwashing. I mean you could probably do Elayne and Aviendha as separate characters still because I don't think you could really fill the roles they have in the story with one person. You could also just have it be really messy drama where Rand fucks up and it doesn't work out in a perfect harem ending! Like based on how the story plays out its not like that would even change much. You have him sort of date Elayne in Tear, then go through the same will they/won't they thing with Aviendha until they gently caress and she leaves to go back to the Wise Ones. Then he ends up having sex with Elayne and she still gets pregnant and the series ends with him just being a hot mess who dips out of his life in shame and never tells them about the non-broken new body he gets. Or maybe he decides he really loves Aviendha and Elayne was a fling so he settles down with her and Elayne just gets to be Queen Single Mom.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:17
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yeah i could absolutely see it as a 'torn between two loves' thing if it was just elayne and aviendha. the more i think about it the more i feel like i'd be loathe to cut out any of the characters in the series since they all have their fun little quirks, but if someone wanted to make a case for min being superfluous they absolutely could.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:27
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I always thought of Rand being basically three different people smashed together and the women were paired with each of those aspects. You had LTT and Elayne/Ilyena, there was his Aiel/Dragon Reborn child of prophecy heritage with Aviendha, and the regular old farm boy with Min Yes I know there's lots of holes in this don't @ me I'm trying to paper over a dirty old man writing about a harem
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Sep 15, 2020 02:33
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The characters can exist without all of them being Rand's love interests. Sometimes it's ok to just be friends with a woman.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:37
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It’s magical world he could have been split into 3 people at some point which would be kinda fun.
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Sep 15, 2020 02:38
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Inspector 34 posted:The characters can exist without all of them being Rand's love interests. Sometimes it's ok to just be friends with a woman. that's impossible, this is long-running fantasy. everyone is either constantly looking for a relationship, in a relationship, or chided for being a frigid loner
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Sep 15, 2020 02:57
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DarkHorse posted:I always thought of Rand being basically three different people smashed together and the women were paired with each of those aspects. You had LTT and Elayne/Ilyena, there was his Aiel/Dragon Reborn child of prophecy heritage with Aviendha, and the regular old farm boy with Min See, I like to buy into more the mythological unitarian rand stuff and mainen/mother/crone thing, A because it's nicer than thinking of the dirty old man/harem factor of my favorite fantasy series, and B Rand barely even has to time to get down half the time what with all the stuff to do. moving here and there, fussing etc. hell i don't even really think of it as polyamory, it's just Rand fulfilling poo poo, being puppeted by the pattern. as much as he had a hand in being born where and when he was, he has a hand in who he loves and kisses and snuggles and dandles on his knee.
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Sep 15, 2020 03:07
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They even had an out with Egwene being an Aes Sedai and they don’t really marry but thanks Gawyn.
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Sep 15, 2020 03:07
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Johnny Joestar posted:that's impossible, this is long-running fantasy. everyone is either constantly looking for a relationship, in a relationship, or chided for being a frigid loner Verin?
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Sep 15, 2020 03:08
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RC Cola posted:Verin? Literally drank of the forbidden fruit
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Sep 15, 2020 03:15
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Invalid Validation posted:All the three wives should have probably been combined. Having a harem is always weird to me cause it’s always a man who writes it and they have very little internal conflict to accepting it. Usually you have to be on a secluded compound in the middle of a Utah desert to get that kinda brainwashing. That cracks me up because Jordan was in a poly relationship at one point, just with two women. He figured if he could handle two women then Rand could handle three. Here's the exact quote on it: Robert Jordan posted:Q: I was wondering, can you talk about how your lead character would have not one but three true loves, and how does your wife feel about that?
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Sep 15, 2020 03:40
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DarkHorse posted:I always thought of Rand being basically three different people smashed together and the women were paired with each of those aspects. You had LTT and Elayne/Ilyena, there was his Aiel/Dragon Reborn child of prophecy heritage with Aviendha, and the regular old farm boy with Min There was an old Wheel of Time fansite back when I was in highschool almost 20 years ago called WoTmania that had a section anyone could submit their own theories too. One theory I read on there that I always really loved was really similar to this, it was that the reason Rand gets three women is because generally the Car'a'carn, Caramoor, and Dragon Reborn are three different people but this turning they all happened to be spun out into the same person. I don't think there's any textual evidence for it at all but I always loved that theory and hoped, at the time, later books would reveal it to be true.
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Sep 15, 2020 04:28
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Invalid Validation posted:It’s magical world he could have been split into 3 people at some point which would be kinda fun. I actually think this sort of happened. I mean, not him literally being three people, but I think this is why the Pattern spun out Mat and Perrin, as sort of proxy Dragons. They go around doing Dragon stuff that he can't. Mat is a surrogate military leader who commands the armies of the Light while Rand is busy at the Bore and Perrin is a surrogate political leader who unites a bunch of different factions that mostly can't/won't follow Rand directly because he's crazy and brutal for a lot of the series. So if Rand died or went (too) insane or something, the Pattern would still have some backup Pseudodragons to try and push events somewhat back on course.
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Sep 15, 2020 06:02
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That's not a bad interpretation, yeah. Lews Therin tried to do it all himself, and it was clearly non-ideal, because he had to do all that ancillary stuff instead of fighting the dark one. And, when Rand does political and military stuff, it always feels like a distraction for him, and often leads to disaster. I like it!
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Sep 15, 2020 12:03
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I think in the TV show they could still keep all three romantic interests and maybe even hint at a prophetic destiny of being somehow involved with Rand, but have it more of a string of relationships with the ladies being much less accepting of sharing. Like in a normal long TV show story arc, where the characters probably go through multiple romances. Or just drop Elayne's romance completely, have Aviendha be just a one time thing that doesn't work out, and Min is who Rand ends up with because Min is the best.
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Sep 15, 2020 12:28
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Or like, maybe stop thinking of this as some kind of guilty titillating thing that must be quashed to maintain moral rectitude, jesus loving christ. Also lol I'm now in the part of that reread blog where the blogger is just so earnestly taking the boys POVs at face value. And no, she really shouldn't!
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Sep 15, 2020 13:40
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Or like, maybe stop thinking of this as some kind of guilty titillating thing that must be quashed to maintain moral rectitude, jesus loving christ. Yeah seriously. It's a common enough trope and he didn't write it in a really lovely awful way. I actually thought his speech to the three of them was really funny because of Nynaeve's reaction of high prudishness. Okay maybe I'll read that reread blog...
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Sep 15, 2020 13:54
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Or like, maybe stop thinking of this as some kind of guilty titillating thing that must be quashed to maintain moral rectitude, jesus loving christ.  Glad you're fine with it but a harem of adoring primary woman characters is probably not something that will fly with most people in TYOOL 2020 I think it's doable with the right treatment, but it'd take some careful writing with absolute adherence to the women being personalities in their own right, because as soon as one of them diverts a hair from being fully fleshed out they immediately enter wish-fulfilment territory. Honestly I'd err towards ditching that particular plot just because you could write everything perfectly and still be subject to bad cuts that result in that.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:10
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ChickenWing posted:I think it's doable with the right treatment, but it'd take some careful writing with absolute adherence to the women being personalities in their own right I mean, yes, most of the time these characters qualify! Min ... sometimes ... doesn't. silvergoose posted:Yeah seriously. It's a common enough trope and he didn't write it in a really lovely awful way. I actually thought his speech to the three of them was really funny because of Nynaeve's reaction of high prudishness. For me it's something else Nynaeve said, actually, too--when she gets to give relationship advice based on her own doomed pursuit of a dead man walking, circa TSR. But yes, the fact that Rand is actually incredibly genuinely sweet and shy about everything, that's cool too. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 14:22
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I mean other than wish fullfilment there’s really no purpose to doing it. It doesn’t serve the story in any way. They don’t overcome any obstacles because they all wanna be married to him. Min said it happens so of course it’s fine and there is no conflict in it. I know Sanderson/Jordan never thought about it for a second but you’d think the girls would have to cope with being in love with a complete stranger at the end when he switches bodies
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Sep 15, 2020 14:31
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Invalid Validation posted:I mean other than wish fullfilment there’s really no purpose to doing it. It doesn’t serve the story in any way. They don’t overcome any obstacles because they all wanna be married to him. Min said it happens so of course it’s fine and there is no conflict in it. But he's not a stranger any more than he's a different person in book 9 than he was in book 4 than he was in book 12.
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Sep 15, 2020 14:32
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Good point that’s even weirder.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:26
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Invalid Validation posted:Good point that’s even weirder. I actually find "the body is different but it's the same person" to be a pretty good message actually.
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Sep 15, 2020 15:41
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It helps that both bodies have well-turned calves ... and nice browlines or whatever Aviendha is in to Can you tell I really just find all this victorian poo poo loving hysterical And I'm really really really sure that being genre-savvy isn't helping this reader "get" why Aviendha's actually super pissed all the time in TSR/TFOH VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 15:49
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I think what bugs me the most is how close RJ gets to something great, like, constantly... but then completely misses Queer characters who aren't treated as titillating or super unusual... but then their relationships don't really get developed Polyamory treated as a fairly normal and healthy situation by the characters, if culturally restrained... but then it turns into a harem because of flat characterization Reversal of power dynamics and exploration of gender roles... except that apparently means a man must get raped Overall, super interesting and progressive for a mid 90s fantasy writer, but definitely limited by the authors age.
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Sep 15, 2020 16:46
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Famethrowa posted:I think what bugs me the most is how close RJ gets to something great, like, constantly... but then completely misses I like it that way, because then he can't really gently caress it up (much). I think he understood that too. quote:Polyamory treated as a fairly normal and healthy situation by the characters, if culturally restrained... but then it turns into a harem because of flat characterization Again, though, the only character who has that problem is Min, for half of the series, who then isn't the character most of the readership will point at when asked about problematic representation. I see that argument, and I discard it. quote:Reversal of power dynamics and exploration of gender roles... except that apparently means a man must get raped And yes, that is pretty effective a reversal considering that's what goes on in these genre books. If you're going to reverse gender roles and power dynamics there is no more central one of both to explore than this commonest of one! And it's not played for laughs! People literally feel uncomfortable when the women shrug it off as Mat being a manslut! He wore lace in the good part of the palace! VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 17:13
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I think the producer had hinted that there would possibly be something between the girls in the harem too, I think that could go either way regarding the wish fulfilment-ness of the situation though. Some Aiel marriages with two men and more time on the Greens who marry all their warders might make up for it a bit I suppose. I think inherently the magic system and how binary it is will also be noticed by people unless they change it a bit. More than the harem I find it tiring that almost everyone pairs up, it just doesn't add anything a lot of the time and seems pointless.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:19
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minema posted:I think the producer had hinted that there would possibly be something between the girls in the harem too, I think that could go either way regarding the wish fulfilment-ness of the situation though. Some Aiel marriages with two men and more time on the Greens who marry all their warders might make up for it a bit I suppose. I think inherently the magic system and how binary it is will also be noticed by people unless they change it a bit. WoT is a harem anime
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Sep 15, 2020 22:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:WoT is a harem anime Y'know if they weren't making a live action one, I'd totally watch this. 
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Sep 15, 2020 22:34
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minema posted:I think the producer had hinted that there would possibly be something between the girls in the harem too, I think that could go either way regarding the wish fulfilment-ness of the situation though. Some Aiel marriages with two men and more time on the Greens who marry all their warders might make up for it a bit I suppose. I think inherently the magic system and how binary it is will also be noticed by people unless they change it a bit. Honestly the only pairing stuff that really felt extraneous to me were Gawain/Egwene, Galad/Berelain, Siuan/Bryne, and potentially Thom/Moiraine. Everyone else sort of fits or is plot important enough that I give it a decent pass. Lan and Nynaeve are also pretty weird in retrospect but I'm not sure how you really could excise that. Also lol if you think a bunch of young attractive people hooking up wouldn't be a huge draw. Zore fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:36
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Zore posted:how you really could excise that. why
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Sep 15, 2020 22:38
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the thom/moiraine pairing is cute
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Sep 15, 2020 22:40
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yeah thom/moiraine is good since it's clear that they like each other but have zero time to ever be in a relationship and way too much baggage, then you kinda forget about it for 5 books
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Sep 15, 2020 22:42
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Yeah, to be clear I don't have a problem with it necessarily. But New Spring made me feel like there was a great lost opportunity for more Siuan/Moiraine once they aren't Amyrlin and spy any more.
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Sep 15, 2020 22:48
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Johnny Joestar posted:the thom/moiraine pairing is cute And they're absolutely prefectly matched to each other in wiles. Can you even imagine such a relationship? Or what they will get up to? VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Sep 15, 2020 |
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Sep 15, 2020 22:50
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I loved Moiraine noting to herself that getting Rand away from Tear was important if even to just get him away from the super effective Thom who was letting Rand get comfortable as a single nation ruler.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:33
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:And they're absolutely prefectly matched to each other in wiles. Can you even imagine such a relationship? Or what they will get up to? They'll be ruling the world. No joke.
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Sep 15, 2020 23:45
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