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"Strong Style" is basically just a marketing buzzword these days
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Nov 11, 2020 02:20
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New Japan is more descelated strong style now where everybody has wimpy versions of their finish. excpt suzuki
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Nov 11, 2020 02:25
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they just posted an interview with tanahashi on the njpw eng site in which he says there's not really any difference
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Nov 11, 2020 02:56
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Benne posted:"Strong Style" is basically just a marketing buzzword these days I thought it was simplicity and while it was a buzz it only really applied to people of a certain moveset - Samoa Joe, WALTER, Ishii, Shibata like others have used it as a catch all for stiff workers but just being stiff doesn't mean strong style, like I don't think of Suzuki as strong style and the man will hit you as hard as he possibly can each and every time
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Nov 11, 2020 03:01
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i thought suzuki was the only one still working strong style lol
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Nov 11, 2020 03:03
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Goto also feels like more of an older Strong Style type of wrestler too. And before he had to retire Shibata was 100% in the strong style mold
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Nov 11, 2020 03:08
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Super No Vacancy posted:they just posted an interview with tanahashi on the njpw eng site in which he says there's not really any difference 
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Nov 11, 2020 03:10
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yano is the torchbearer of strong style
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Nov 11, 2020 03:15
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I mean given how New Japan almost ended up out of business due to Inoki in the end it's not to shocking the style moved away from Strong style to something else
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Nov 11, 2020 03:45
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TIL: Minoru Suzuki and Jerry Lynn have the same finisher.
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Nov 11, 2020 08:29
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When New Japan was starting to get big in the US again, the older DVDVR types said that the modern main eventers weren't doing anything like Strong Style. And really it's closer to a better-executed WWE main event style (signature spots, well-defined finishers, lots of nearfalls that you wouldn't necessarily buy as a finish). I'm not sure I agree with that but I do see the logic in it. Watch a big main event from the 90s and compare it with today (even leaving out Bullet Club interference antics). It's a MUCH different experience. Strong Style from the 80s and 90s can be a little alienating for western audience since it has its own logic and timing. Similar to how lucha libre can sometimes not make sense if you're used to a certain style. My understanding is that New Japan was always bigger than All Japan domestically in the 90s. But western puro fans tended to gravitate toward the latter. A big reason for this, I think, is that King's Road emerged out of the NWA main event tradition and was influenced by North American wrestling more than Strong Style was (with Strong Style having connections to British catch wrestling as its primary western influence). King's Road matches tended to operate under the same logic as a wrestling match in the US. The opponents feel each other out, exchange holds and strikes, the moves get bigger and bigger, nearfalls escalate the tension, and there are callbacks to previous matches. Compare that to Strong Style which tended to have the logic of a fight. I like to compare King's Road to the filmography of Akira Kurosawa. Kurosawa was clearly influenced by the westerns of John Ford. He then translated those tropes and techniques to his own culture in the form of samurai movies. Those samurai movies then became an influence for...you guessed it, westerns (I suppose that makes Samoa Joe Sergio Leone in this analogy). This is all to say that modern wrestling is a much flatter plane than it was in the 90s. There are some stylistic differences, yes, but much of the difference in quality now can be chalked up to execution. NJPW (both main event and Juniors), WWE, AEW, All Japan, the US Indies, NXT...all have similar match structure and logic to each other. Yes, there are exceptions in each, but these matches stand out as exceptions rather than a reflection of a house style.
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Nov 11, 2020 13:16
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Who was the last wrestler to get a featured debut on US TV that we have seen nothing of? Jade Cargill has never wrestled a match that anyone has a record of and was only noticed in crowds at Dark and whispered about as a new star AEW wanted to push. The only wrestler I can think of similar is Micro Man who debuted in a featured match in Arena Mexico (and sold out the building.) Most everyone else in Mexico who debuts with a superstar type gimmick has wrestled before under a different gimmick getting their feet wet. Atlantis Jr who CMLL kept pretty well under wraps before his debut as Atlantis Jr had wrestled under another gimmick for a full year. But in the US I can't think of anyone since Goldberg, and he'd even had some dark matches. Everyone else has been in developmental, the indies, Tough Enough, the Diva Search or something prior. The closest person I can think of is Braun but even he had a few NXT matches, he just wasn't featured. There must be some people, maybe someone in the Divas era, or a TNA wrestler I'm not thinking of.
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Nov 12, 2020 21:06
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What about that saudi arabia wrestler they bring out for crown jewel. Does that count?
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Nov 12, 2020 21:12
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:What about that saudi arabia wrestler they bring out for crown jewel. Does that count? That Iran/Saudi angle they tried to run may have featured some wrestlers who had never debuted. I think the sumo wrestler they brought in because MBS wanted Yokozuna had never wrestled a match before (or since) either. So while not exactly the same thing, those sort of count!
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Nov 12, 2020 21:17
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As horrifying as the whole situation is, I still find it amusing that they kept asking for dead wrestlers, some of whom had been so for decades.
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Nov 12, 2020 21:23
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I'm waiting for Flair to come out of retirement for one more match in North Korea. Preferably with Dennis Rodman involved.
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Nov 12, 2020 21:33
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Braun Strowman didn't have a (televised) match prior to his debut on Raw, and looks like he had a single digit number of NXT House Show squashes before that. Jordan Omogbehin still hasn't had a televised wrestling match, and only has six NXT house show matches on record anywhere online. I know both of them appeared on TV prior to their debuts (as a Rosebud/Super Ninja/Raw Underground Bouncer), but that feels pretty similar to "AEW audience member during COVID". I want to make a Mongo joke but I assume he doesn't count.
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Nov 12, 2020 21:44
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MassRafTer posted:Who was the last wrestler to get a featured debut on US TV that we have seen nothing of? Jade Cargill has never wrestled a match that anyone has a record of and was only noticed in crowds at Dark and whispered about as a new star AEW wanted to push. Nicholas
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Nov 13, 2020 00:20
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Price Check posted:Nicholas Wow Braun is a nexus for this kind of thing.
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Nov 13, 2020 01:32
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Do any of the 24/7 title winners count? Rob Gronkowski? Ronda Rousey?
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Nov 13, 2020 02:40
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And on top of all that, AEW sent out this press release today: All Elite Wrestling Signs Jade Cargill to Women’s Division -- AEW’s Latest Newcomer Wasted No Time Making a Splash on DYNAMITE – November 12, 2020 – AEW today announced a multi-year deal with rising wrestling sensation Jade Cargill, who made an electric debut last night on AEW DYNAMITE. During last night’s live show on TNT, Cody Rhodes was speaking about wanting another shot at MJF when he was dramatically interrupted by Jade, who proceeded to run down Cody’s “Giant Killer” moniker. She revealed that she knows a real giant, none other than Shaq. Cody’s wife, Brandi Rhodes, then stormed into the ring to defend her husband’s honor. “I joined AEW because here I have a voice,” said Jade. “I’m ready to shake up the women’s division, and I’m going to flip this promotion on its head.” Jade, who played basketball at Jacksonville University in Jacksonville, Fla., brings a high level of athleticism and intensity to the AEW women’s division. With her background as a professional trainer and explosive demeanor on the mic, Jade is poised to make a powerful impression inside and outside the ring. “We’re committed to expanding the AEW women’s division by signing great athletes,” said Tony Khan, CEO and GM of AEW. “Jade is an amazing athlete, and she’s an exciting addition to our women’s roster. I’m confident that fans will enjoy getting to know Jade’s strong personality and watching her development as a wrestler after her surprising confrontation with Cody and Brandi Rhodes last night on Dynamite.”
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Nov 13, 2020 04:03
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Cornwind Evil posted:Here's a question. Not quite what you're looking for, but I immediately thought of the Elimination Chamber where Mark Henry's glass cage was broken early and then they had to call and make up a new match on the fly. Mostly because at the time, I thought it'd be cool if Mark Henry just stayed cool in his pod and be like "Not my turn, rear end in a top hat" and glare at everyone as the match went on. But no, he steps out slightly, then pauses, like he's not sure if he should or not, and everything fell apart
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Nov 13, 2020 04:10
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Not Mark’s fault. He was still green when that happened.
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Nov 13, 2020 04:15
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Artelier posted:Not quite what you're looking for, but I immediately thought of the Elimination Chamber where Mark Henry's glass cage was broken early and then they had to call and make up a new match on the fly. Mostly because at the time, I thought it'd be cool if Mark Henry just stayed cool in his pod and be like "Not my turn, rear end in a top hat" and glare at everyone as the match went on. But no, he steps out slightly, then pauses, like he's not sure if he should or not, and everything fell apart I loved the part where they literally had to pause the match and had Dolph Ziggler yell out instructions because nobody knew what they gently caress they were doing anymore
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Nov 13, 2020 04:21
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has Alberto Del Rio ever been a great wrestler? He has such an interesting background, trained in Mexico by his dad, shoot fighting experience, worked in Japan for a long time, then he just wrestles like a WWE midcarder for the rest of his career even after he leaves Was he any better as Dos Caras Jr?
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Nov 13, 2020 05:29
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Low Desert Punk posted:has Alberto Del Rio ever been a great wrestler? He has such an interesting background, trained in Mexico by his dad, shoot fighting experience, worked in Japan for a long time, then he just wrestles like a WWE midcarder for the rest of his career even after he leaves He was considered a technically sound wrestler but lacking charisma. Not great, if he didn't have size WWE would have never been interested. Then he takes the mask off, goes to WWE and suddenly has a bunch of charisma.
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Nov 13, 2020 05:42
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MassRafTer posted:He was considered a technically sound wrestler but lacking charisma. Not great, if he didn't have size WWE would have never been interested. Then he takes the mask off, goes to WWE and suddenly has a bunch of charisma.
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Nov 13, 2020 05:44
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Since Alex Shelley came up earlier, why wasn't he a bigger deal in his "prime"? Good look, charismatic with an eye catching moveset, seems like all of the ingredients are there. He's not huge but he's not super undersized either. Is it just a case of him working a more indie friendly style before it had a wider appeal?
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Nov 13, 2020 06:11
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small
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Nov 13, 2020 10:03
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does anyone, hopefully mrt, bix, or edge&christian, or someone else with lots of weird knowledge of this timeframe, know what was the driving force behind WWF spending $12 Million on the Debbie Reynolds Casino in 1999? This was a time where Vegas had new casinos popping up left and right so I'm curious to find out why they made the purchase and investment but never moved more forward with it.
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Nov 13, 2020 12:28
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I think Shelley's problem was more that he just couldn't stay healthy, seemed like everytime he was gonna be pushed or getting one he got hurt at a lousy time.
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Nov 13, 2020 12:42
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Zombie Lemur posted:Since Alex Shelley came up earlier, why wasn't he a bigger deal in his "prime"? He got signed by TNA at a time when they had no idea how to use a guy like him (basically all the time) so he quickly got stuck as an undercard comedy guy, and when they did give him a push with the tag titles it was TNA and the tag titles were never going to mean that much, plus he'd already been a nobody for years. As funny as the Nash skits were making a total joke of the non Joe/AJ/Daniels X Division guys didn't help. WWE rarely signed guys that size then too. Also he signed with TNA soon after he got hot in ROH so he never really had an option of being a full time indie guy, nor would anyone other than a Bryan Danielson really want that back then. He wasn't one of the original X Division guys, and wasn't Samoa Joe so at that point he got lost. Then when they needed new X Division guys to push he was already slotted. A huge shame in 2004/2005 he was one of the best guys in the US. JOHN CENA posted:does anyone, hopefully mrt, bix, or edge&christian, or someone else with lots of weird knowledge of this timeframe, know what was the driving force behind WWF spending $12 Million on the Debbie Reynolds Casino in 1999? This was a time where Vegas had new casinos popping up left and right so I'm curious to find out why they made the purchase and investment but never moved more forward with it. The answer is basically hubris. They really thought a WWF casino would be big business and got very lucky that their plans got derailed because it could have killed the company if they went through with it. They were able to buy it relatively cheaply at auction, and I think after they got it they realized it was going to be a boondoggle, plus Vince was starting the XFL so it made sense to just cut bait then.
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Nov 13, 2020 15:36
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It’s along the same lines as why they thought a lovely theme restaurant would survive in Times Square when the rent was still skyrocketing and tried to keep it open as their popularity was waning post-Invasion.
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Nov 13, 2020 15:44
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MassRafTer posted:The answer is basically hubris. They really thought a WWF casino would be big business and got very lucky that their plans got derailed because it could have killed the company if they went through with it. They were able to buy it relatively cheaply at auction, and I think after they got it they realized it was going to be a boondoggle, plus Vince was starting the XFL so it made sense to just cut bait then. This. I think they thought the boom period would continue for a long time, and (wanted to or did) put money into tons of different ventures.
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Nov 13, 2020 17:59
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One of my absolute favourite matches in the mid 2000s was Austin Aries v Alex Shelley at ROH Manhattan Madness II. Shelley was so loving great in that match, and back then Aries was young enough to not have burned every bridge in sight and we didn't know the scum he was.
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Nov 13, 2020 18:02
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Thanks for the answers re:Shelley, they make sense. The injury one especially, because I definitely remember him being the focal point of something and then being off tv.
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Nov 13, 2020 22:49
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related to the Zelina news, do people in wrestling have agents? and if most of them dont, how have they kept agents away?
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Nov 14, 2020 01:35
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I definitely never hear about agents. I'm sure Brock Lesnar did though.
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Nov 14, 2020 01:51
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Bill Berhens and Barry Bloom represent pretty much everyone in wrestling who makes enough money to need an agent/thought about things enough to realize they need one.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:03
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JOHN CENA posted:does anyone, hopefully mrt, bix, or edge&christian, or someone else with lots of weird knowledge of this timeframe, know what was the driving force behind WWF spending $12 Million on the Debbie Reynolds Casino in 1999? This was a time where Vegas had new casinos popping up left and right so I'm curious to find out why they made the purchase and investment but never moved more forward with it. Bruce Prichard has described some of the plans they had on his podcast, which is one of those things where what he claims is not especially self serving so you can kind of believe him. There would be a venue for live matches (a steady stream of them, so maybe developmental?), old wrestlers would be used as greeters, etc. One thing I did forget is that they did briefly have the hotel open as Convention Center Drive Hotel before the sale to whoever they sold it to.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:45
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