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Did AGE have microtransactions?
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Nov 21, 2020 16:11
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wdarkk posted:Did AGE have microtransactions?
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Nov 21, 2020 16:26
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Endorph posted:what do you think gunpla is Ok, point.
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Nov 21, 2020 16:32
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Endorph posted:I was only counting different machines, not modifications or anything. Otherwise you get into silly stuff like counting every pack for the strike and impulse separately. I don't know. I think Gusion and Gusion Rebake, along with Kimaris and Kimaris Vidar at the very least are such radically different designs that they might as well be different units. I feel like there's enough of a jump between "a new backpack that maybe causes the armor color to change as well as giving it a different fighting style" and "an entire retrofit of all armor and weapons that completely changes the units aesthetics as well as it's fighting style". The various Barbatos changes changes are all pretty minor, but some of the other units have a large enough overhaul that I think it's fair to count them as new units. If you showed someone the Aile Strike and Blast Strike they'd probably be able to tell they were the same unit; I don't think that's true of the Kimaris and Kimaris Vidar or Gusion and Gusion Rebake though. chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, then that puts us below Zeta's six Gundams (3 Gundam Mk. IIs, Psycho Gundam, Psycho Gundam II, Zeta) at one of the lower Gundam counts for the franchise. There's 72 Gundams in the backstory, and 24 or so still exist, but almost none of them show up in the show itself. Did we ever even see the 3rd Gundam Mk II? I thought we only ever saw 2 of them, and the third was just mentioned as existing but was never actually used for anything more than parts in fluff. drrockso20 posted:Honestly it's REALLY loving weird how little they've done with the 72 Gundam Frames either within IBO proper or in side story and gunpla stuff, you'd think we'd at least have seen rough designs for all of them by now rather than basically nothing I don't really think it is. I think the number 72 is just too many to fill them all in unless IBO had turned out to a runaway success because at that point you have literally dozens of units to create that are outside the main show. You'd need to either create a lot of rather simple designs, a lot of really similar designs or spend a lot of money paying people to create more unique and complex designs to fill in that amount. It just seems like a large number they picked because it gave them a lot of room for expansion should things go well or anyone else want to delve in to side-material. The show didn't want to use that many though, and there hasn't been that much supplementary content (as least, as of yet) to expand it much and while IBO was pretty well received it doesn't seem to have done gang-busters or anything, to drive a lot of side content or sequels. So it's just left fallow for now. Endorph posted:what do you think gunpla is A regular transaction, given most gunpla cost more than a coupe of dollars (or dollar equivalents). If it's beyond $1 to $5 dollars it's not really a micro amount of money anymore.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:45
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AGE specifically had the AG line that sold for like 3-6 bucks each.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:48
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Endorph posted:AGE specifically had the AG line that sold for like 3-6 bucks each. A line could be used to unlock content in a tie-in game. Unless you claim the whole Skylanders genre had no microtransactions, it was as plain a case as you get. (Although initially they went for 600 yen for the cheap ones, so it was more in the 5-7 dollar range. It's just that it sold poorly. Not exactly a shock when you consider the more expensive ones went for the same price as the cheaper "real" gunpla, which tend to be better in almost every way. Even the ones from '99.) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 23:37
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Warmachine posted:I think that might have been a "wait what?" moment for me. I don't remember the druggies or grunts at Alaska or Orb needing flight units, but nevertheless in Destiny, they have things like the Babi and Windam specifically made for sustained flight, while stuff like the Zaku are still explicitly ground-bound. The Druggies actually did have that issue. The Calamity needed to ride Raider into battle. They just spend most of the series fighting in space. The grunts at Alaska also needed flight units (you see most of them riding one.) Orb's M1-Astrays have a built in crappier version of the Aile Pack and by Destiny you see some of them retrofitted with rotor packs instead. I think people tend to remember SEED having Effortless Flight more than it actually did. Freedom Gundam is basically the only unit in classic SEED that wasn't either built specifically for flight or had only a crappier version of flight. Even Justice had a built-in surfboard it used for distance/speedy movement. Destiny is certainly iffier but even there most of the units effortlessly flying are either custom built for it or equipped with backpacks that allow for speedy long-term flight. It's usually only a protagonist unit that gets to flaunt the rule and even then there's a reason Lunamaria stands on the Minerva as a turret more often than not. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 23:48
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Ehhh. The Calamity was ground-bound, but it was a heavy artillery suit. The Raider and the Forbidden were both perfectly capable of unassisted flight, and the Justice was too - the Fatum only makes it faster. The Freedom takes the protagonist's MS from "can do big jumps" to "infinite flight forever", though the back half of the series is primarily space based. In SEED Destiny, the only ground-bound protagonist unit was the Gunner Zaku. The Blaze Zaku, the Savior, and the Impulse all had perfect unassisted flight capabilities, as did the Gouf Ignited. The Destiny and the Legend, of course, also have perfect flight. For other factions, you'll have a harder time finding groundpounders than flyers. The Zamza-Zah, the Destroy, and the Windams all had unassisted flight capabilities, as did the Murasames used by ORB. Hell, even the old M1 Astrays had rotor packs. The Chaos could also fly perfectly. Basically the only antagonists who couldn't fly were the Gells-Ghe, the Gaia, and the Abyss(and I guess the GOOhNs that showed up in one whole episode). "Can be equipped with a backpack that provides speedy infinite flight" counts as being effortlessly flight capable, especially since something like a Windam isn't giving anything up for the privilege. SEED has the same weird issue as Code Geass eventually did, where you start the series with a low, grungy tech level with things like drastically limited power supplies and little to no access to flight and by the midpoint of the story that's all out the window because everyone has infinite energy and can fly around like Goku. Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 02:43
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Kanos posted:
RIP Flying Portman 2. No. 1 Knightmare Frame in our hearts forever.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:28
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Back to IBO. Lol, Carta does a big formation speech and akihiro just pops one of the Graze's heads and asks if it was okay to shoot. Mika upgrades from sword to giant tuning fork on a whim. Biscuit had death flags popping up all around him since the last episode so it didn't really surprise me at all that he died. You don't promise to talk about the future at a later date and expect to survive long. Pretty predictable. Orga passed a kidney stone screaming in anguish. I really like the Hyakuren design and the disguise mockup they put on it to hide their faction colors. Does McGillis just enjoy being an exposition dump? Lol that Edmonton is the capital of Arbrau. Just how many tekkadan members were brought to Earth? It seems like there's always new faces each episode to replace battlefield casualties. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 03:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:Back to IBO. Lol, Carta does a big formation speech and akihiro just pops one of the Graze's heads and asks if it was okay to shoot. Fun fact, they used actual streets from Edmonton as the basis for a couple of location shots. Really screwed with me because I was visiting the city and watched the episode shortly before driving down the same street. tsob posted:I don't know. I think Gusion and Gusion Rebake, along with Kimaris and Kimaris Vidar at the very least are such radically different designs that they might as well be different units. I feel like there's enough of a jump between "a new backpack that maybe causes the armor color to change as well as giving it a different fighting style" and "an entire retrofit of all armor and weapons that completely changes the units aesthetics as well as it's fighting style". The various Barbatos changes changes are all pretty minor, but some of the other units have a large enough overhaul that I think it's fair to count them as new units. If you showed someone the Aile Strike and Blast Strike they'd probably be able to tell they were the same unit; I don't think that's true of the Kimaris and Kimaris Vidar or Gusion and Gusion Rebake though. The number 72 is taken specifically from the ars goetia which is where they pulled all the names for gundam models. Less of a large number picked arbitrarily and more one picked as the theme for the naming convention.
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Nov 22, 2020 04:23
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Caros posted:Fun fact, they used actual streets from Edmonton as the basis for a couple of location shots. Really screwed with me because I was visiting the city and watched the episode shortly before driving down the same street. Centuries down the line and an apocalyptic war wiping out most of the human race and Anchorage and Edmonton still look the same Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 04:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:Centuries down the line and an apocalyptic war wiping out most of the human race and Anchorage and Edmonton still look the same The two cities least likely to be impacted by an apocalyptic war and the passage of centuries.
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Nov 22, 2020 04:30
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Napoleon Nelson posted:The two cities least likely to be impacted by an apocalyptic war and the passage of centuries. True enough. Maybe Kenney's tenure as Alberta Premier was so toxic in Gundam that the rest of the world ignored Edmonton for centuries. Lol Jesus, Mika just smacked a human with his tuning fork and he was a red smear on the snow. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 04:35
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Mika's got stuff to do, ain't got time to wait for a speech. And McGillis has a desperate need to convince both the world and himself that he's a genius strategist. There is a at least a little justification for him expositing all the time.
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Nov 22, 2020 04:41
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Haha, the Bank Bank. They just painted over a Scotiabank sign didn't they? Finished season 1. My thoughts: Did they ever actually address who sold out their path along the train route to Gallarhorn? Orga said he knew but they never followed up on it. I mean it was McGillis because his Montag persona had already provided the cargo ship and he would have known their train route from intuition. Would have given him a chance to rid himself of Gaelio and Carta if it had worked flawlessly. Still, I don't think the show ever actually revealed if it was McGillis who sold them out. If you guys were feeling bad about what happened to Ein, I didn't get that. Fucker was a stupid idiot who threw his life away because a fascist treated him like an equal and he got turned into a 40K dreadnought for his troubles. Maybe don't work for a supremacist organization and refuse to give up on your space racism, martian traitor. Ein was a piece of poo poo who deserved every bad thing that happened to him. Same with Gaelio. Feeling bad because your friends and family members die doesn't make you a good person, it just means you're human and that's not the same as being right. McGillis might be a manipulative bastard but I felt no sympathy for Gaelio. He was an aristocratic racist and watching him get chumped was satisfying. Boohoo you got betrayed by your best friend, cry more you piece of poo poo. This past year has been loving awful for human rights injustices in North America at the hands of law enforcement and it has definitely had an effect on how I view media involving characters in positions of authority. You can be a dynamic character but until they make the conscious effort to stop supporting genocidal regimes they can take all that character development and shove it up their rear end and get clobbered with a giant mecha mace. Carta and Gaelio might be fun characters but they all loving deserved to die. You don't fix organizations from within, you destroy and replace them. Ein tried that and look where it got him. The show started off weak but once they hit the Dort colonies it picked up significantly because it felt like all the characters had finally come around to realizing what they wanted to be doing rather than just going through the numbers of a slightly altered Gundam narrative. It's still a slightly altered Gundam narrative but at least they have proper motivation and drive. Kudelia and Atra in particular really, really needed that boost to stop being static characters. The Turban pilots were a lot more tolerable when they got away from that creep Naze because they stopped being all about jumping his dick and spent more time just being pilots. Mika is going to die at this rate. Half his body's wrecked. The political side of the show feels at once a bit overwrought and also kinda simplified. Kudelia's speech mirrored Char's Dakar address which is definitely going to kick off a big rear end arms race for Season 2. I still glazed over at a lot of the political maneuvering dialogue. Lots of characters who talk like Bob Page and Simons at the start of Deus Ex but without a lot of the subtlety. It's mostly players like McMurdo, Nobliss and a dozen earth politicians I can't remember the names of talking in hushed tones about how they'll take advantage of the situation. Fine, whatever, that stuff is pretty boring. The whole Parliament thing felt rather superficial to me. My day job is recording government news conferences in Canada and even our dumbest politicians don't stand around in corners talking about military plots and attempted coups. They go up to a camera crew and make those idiotic statements to the media. The idea of an exiled politician making it back to Parliament with hours left before a vote is kinda ludicrous to me, let alone actually winning said vote. I guess it does say something to the disenfranchisement of the citizenry that they don't even get to vote in Federal Elections in IBO and the parliament just votes for the leader during House sittings. I found Merribit's last second turn into "won't someone please think of the children!?" protests kind of odd. She went through at least three major engagements where Tekkadan kids were killed and it was only after Biscuit was killed that she starts yelling that they're going too far. It got a little tiring listening to her protest and then get shut down by Tekkadan because it was the same scene on repeat. Yeah, Tekkadan sending kids on suicidal charges in mobile workers is hosed up, but the way she was talking it was like she didn't remember anything about the past few months. I really like Orga. He's a fuckup but he is doing his best even when he makes questionable calls. It is rather disturbing how some of the boys have blind faith in him but at least he's aware of that fact and he grapples with it. At the start I felt like he was almost a Kamina type leader who is gung-ho and succeeds through sheer charisma but he really started to grow on me when the show examined how he's grappling with his responsibilities and his struggle to keep impossible promises. I'm interested to see where this goes for Season 2 because it does feel like a complete story for season 1 rather than a full 50 episode sequential narrative. There's gotta be a big paradigm shift coming considering it was only one victory and the implication is that a mass rearmament is on the way now that Gallarhorn is on the shitlist for a lot of people. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 05:04
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they should retcon ibo to be a sequel to after war x
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Nov 22, 2020 06:16
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Also I'm a bit confused by what Gjallarhorn's plan was exactly at Edmonton and just what the hell the Arbrau Parliament was thinking. How does a Gjallarhorn get away with publicly trying to assassinate a foreign dignitary and waging a war on the outskirts of a center of government not constitute government interference? How does an active warzone not prevent Arbrau from postponing the election? I get that Gjallarhorn is corrupt as poo poo but parliaments postpone deliberations at the drop of a hat, let alone a massive battle between two PMCs in a civilian population center. I guess it comes down to showing that Gjallarhorn can be resisted and that they aren't the end-all authority on power bloc affairs but it does seem like the act of waging a war outside of Edmonton on election day would have been enough to destroy their public image without also getting their poo poo kicked in by Martian mercenaries.
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Nov 22, 2020 06:37
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Arcsquad12 posted:Also I'm a bit confused by what Gjallarhorn's plan was exactly at Edmonton and just what the hell the Arbrau Parliament was thinking. How does a Gjallarhorn get away with publicly trying to assassinate a foreign dignitary and waging a war on the outskirts of a center of government not constitute government interference? How does an active warzone not prevent Arbrau from postponing the election? I get that Gjallarhorn is corrupt as poo poo but parliaments postpone deliberations at the drop of a hat, let alone a massive battle between two PMCs in a civilian population center. I guess it comes down to showing that Gjallarhorn can be resisted and that they aren't the end-all authority on power bloc affairs but it does seem like the act of waging a war outside of Edmonton on election day would have been enough to destroy their public image without also getting their poo poo kicked in by Martian mercenaries. The 'plan' is in shambles because everything went wildly, wildly off script. Initially, things were nice and neat. Makanai was disgraced in a bribery scandal, so Henri Fleurs was set to be elected Prime Minister in his place. Unknown to the public, she was in league with Iznario Fareed to illegally expand Gjallarhorn's authority. (On paper, Gjallarhorn has no legal authority on Earth in the blocks, save for the Outer Earth Orbit Regulatory Joint Fleet, which is authorized to defend against spaceborn attacks. Due to the efficiency of the Arianrhod Fleet, that authority was pretty much never used.) When Tekkadan arrived, Izanio tried to prevent them from bringing Makanai in to disrupt things with an illegal deployment (if memory serves, some of the soldiers even comment about how they're not supposed to be here) outside of the city, presumably claiming it as a precaution against terrorists who'd just set off a colony drop, and who had brutally killed one of the Seven Stars. (Which, to be fair... Tekkadan did.) The idea was to keep Makanai out until Fleurs could be confirmed with no real opposition, since if Kudelia and Makanai arrived, they'd have a real chance of ruining the whole plan. Meanwhile, if Iznario could just get his choice elected, she could prevent any serious pushback. Fighting wasn't supposed to reach the city proper, even when Gjallarhorn was desperate. But... then Ein got involved. Just as McGillis planned. Ein, who was already unstable before he got the killbot treatment, who had devoted his whole life to vengeance against Tekkadan, rushed in and damaged the city with his wildly illegal murderbot. Which meant that Gjallarhorn was exposed for violating pretty much all the rules at once. Edit: Just as a note, this whole thing wasn't Gjallarhorn's plan as much as it was Izanio's plan. The whole thing wasn't to improve Gjallarhorn's standing, but to give him more leverage in the organization. Even by Gjallarhorn's standards, he's a real piece of poo poo. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 07:10
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Arcsquad12 posted:Lol that Edmonton is the capital of Arbrau. My favourite detail with this is the actual city of Edmonton caught wind of the IBO finale and they loved being the center of an anime battleground  . Apparently the artists got a lot of the city's architecture right too rather than just calling it Edmonton with generic buildings.
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Nov 22, 2020 08:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:My favourite detail with this is the actual city of Edmonton caught wind of the IBO finale and they loved being the center of an anime battleground A bunch of shots are literally just Google streetview images painted over. I mentioned earlier that there's a Scotiabank in one of the frames that was pretty obviously repainted to say "Bank Bank" with the same white on red logo.
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Nov 22, 2020 08:54
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Arcsquad12 posted:If you guys were feeling bad about what happened to Ein, I didn't get that. Fucker was a stupid idiot who threw his life away because a fascist treated him like an equal and he got turned into a 40K dreadnought for his troubles. Maybe don't work for a supremacist organization and refuse to give up on your space racism, martian traitor. Ein was a piece of poo poo who deserved every bad thing that happened to him. Same with Gaelio. Feeling bad because your friends and family members die doesn't make you a good person, it just means you're human and that's not the same as being right. McGillis might be a manipulative bastard but I felt no sympathy for Gaelio. He was an aristocratic racist and watching him get chumped was satisfying. Boohoo you got betrayed by your best friend, cry more you piece of poo poo. I definitely want to hear more after you've seen series 2 but as far as I'm concerned you're bang on the money here.
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Nov 22, 2020 12:57
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I kinda feel sorry for Ein because he at least has a warped view of how poo poo went down and things probably would have been at least a little different if he had, which ultimately makes him a bit of a victim. Like, a fairly idiotic one, but still.
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Nov 22, 2020 13:23
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Last Celebration posted:I kinda feel sorry for Ein because he at least has a warped view of how poo poo went down and things probably would have been at least a little different if he had, which ultimately makes him a bit of a victim. Like, a fairly idiotic one, but still. As far as he knew, the one person in Gjallarhorn who treated him as a human being was murdered in cold blood by a PMC just because he, out of the goodness of his heart, went to try to protect them from the consequences of their own actions. Now, we know that's bull, but nobody was exactly in a position to correct that misunderstanding except McGillis, and McGillis benefitted a lot more from letting it fester. Hardly a surprise he got all vengeance obsessed. Basically, Ein's a person who life just kept making GBS threads on from the day he was born. Now, how he responded to that ranged from "questionable" to "batshit insane", but I can spare a little sympathy for him because, well, he really didn't have any good options, even if he kept choosing the worst one anyway.
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Nov 22, 2020 13:50
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Arcsquad12 posted:This past year has been loving awful for human rights injustices in North America at the hands of law enforcement and it has definitely had an effect on how I view media involving characters in positions of authority. You can be a dynamic character but until they make the conscious effort to stop supporting genocidal regimes they can take all that character development and shove it up their rear end and get clobbered with a giant mecha mace. Carta and Gaelio might be fun characters but they all loving deserved to die.
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Nov 22, 2020 14:49
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chiasaur11 posted:As far as he knew, the one person in Gjallarhorn who treated him as a human being was murdered in cold blood by a PMC just because he, out of the goodness of his heart, went to try to protect them from the consequences of their own actions. I'm not even really too critical of Ein's choices in life, to be honest. He was born on Mars - you know, the same Mars that the protagonists are from, which is such a shithole that child slavery is rampant and kids are starving in the streets - and took a job opportunity that would, you know, keep him alive, just like all the Tekkadan kids took a job as mercenaries that kill people to stay alive. He then got pissed on by everyone else in the organization except Crank by dint of being Martian, so naturally he formed a bond with Crank. From Ein's perspective, Crank was so interested in "saving" the Tekkadan kids that he put his life and career on the line, and for that kindness, they murdered him. Why wouldn't he hate Tekkadan? Why wouldn't he form a bond of loyalty with Gaelio, who actually respected him and gave him an opportunity to try to achieve some closure and catharsis? He's an antagonist working for the antagonist faction in the show, and we as the viewers know that Gjallarhorn is hosed up and deserves to get owned, but he's honestly just as hosed over by life as the protagonist kids. I don't think it's unintentional that the final battle of the season is between Ein(who has destroyed himself and his entire life and is risking doing huge damage to the organization he works for in the name of vengeance for a beloved friend who died) and Mikazuki(who is willing to destroy himself and is currently participating in a battle that is grinding his organization into hamburger in part to try to achieve vengeance for a beloved friend who died). I'm on board with not really feeling any empathy for Gaelio and Carta(beyond the basic "man it sucks to be betrayed by a loved one"), because they're both pampered aristocrats who had power and influence to actually try to change the garbage fire of society for the better and instead spent their time cosplaying as knightly aristocrats wrapped up in their own superiority, but Ein is just as much a victim of the system as the Tekkadan kids are, he's just on a different side than them. Hell, it wasn't even really Ein's decision to get turned into Einborg, it was Gaelio trying to "help" him. Kanos fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 15:13
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TBH, I don't think you can even blame Gaelio too much for how things panned out with Ein. There was no reasonsble way he could have expected what he got from what McGillis offered him.
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Nov 22, 2020 15:27
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Ein joined a supremacist group. One or two if them treated him nicely so he felt he owed them, and then he doubled down on his space racism to try and fit in with a society that would never truly accept him and he kept throwing himself on swords and maces to save two people who didn't deserve his loyalty. He was an idiot. Maybe if he had been given a chance to see that there was another way to survive that didn't involve oppressing fellow Martians he could have had a way out but he just kept making the worst possible choices until all that was left was a husk in a fluid tank. He didn't want to be abused by the cops so he joined the cops and started abusing others. Then he hosed around and found out what happens when you pick a fight with a crazed, half starved bodybuilding orphan with a giant mace. gently caress Ein I'm glad his cockpit got shattered. Maybe when he comes back again as Andross's brain and laser eyeballs he can throw himself on another sword.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:22
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To follow up on a previous thread of the conversation, what's your take on Kudelia and Atra now that you've finished the first season?
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Nov 22, 2020 16:41
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grassy gnoll posted:To follow up on a previous thread of the conversation, what's your take on Kudelia and Atra now that you've finished the first season? I really did not like Kudelia at the start and Atra was such a non entity who only came along to pine after Mika that when she her first bit of development was "wow, polygamy! We can both have his babies!" I was ready to write her off. Kudelia was too busy feeling sorry for herself not being able to do anything that she got on my nerves a lot. Thank loving god for Dort. It does amuse me that Kudelia's rise in agency came from wanting to do a shopping run but at least it meant that when she saw the carnage and oppression firsthand it galvanized her resolve rather than reducing her further into a whimpering mess. After Dort she struck me as a mix of a more rational Ralena Peacecraft with Mineva Zabi's craftiness, but there's a bit of Char Aznable in there too with her Edmonton Address. I guess the red dress and blonde hair must have given it away. She doesn't whimper anymore and she actually has a bit of fire in her voice. Now if she would only lean into her Ralena side and realize her dress would look better covered in the blood of I'm glad that the show pretty much ignores most of the padding and boring poo poo with the Turbines once they leave the big Teiwaz ship. Atra had to find a purpose in life other than clinging to Mika and she was willing to put her life on the line to support Kudelia's ideals. Noble of her when they were captured by Biscuit's brother but kind of needless in the long run considering how the Dort uprising went down. Still, I did like how she extended her empathy to everyone around her and started checking up on the rest of Tekkadan. They're one big really weird and emotionally stunted family but it was nice to see her interact with others rather than just Mika and Kudelia. She gave herself a purpose and I liked that. I still think she's a fairly flat character, but at least she upgraded from a non-entity love interest. Flat characters aren't bad, they just don't grow or change dramatically. Atra has found a place on the ship and with the crew and I'm fine with it. EDIT: Lol, I saw the Bank Bank Scotiabank but I missed the loving Monkey Mart. 
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 17:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:Ein joined a supremacist group. One or two if them treated him nicely so he felt he owed them, and then he doubled down on his space racism to try and fit in with a society that would never truly accept him and he kept throwing himself on swords and maces to save two people who didn't deserve his loyalty. He was an idiot. Maybe if he had been given a chance to see that there was another way to survive that didn't involve oppressing fellow Martians he could have had a way out but he just kept making the worst possible choices until all that was left was a husk in a fluid tank. He didn't want to be abused by the cops so he joined the cops and started abusing others. Then he hosed around and found out what happens when you pick a fight with a crazed, half starved bodybuilding orphan with a giant mace. Did you miss the entire part where Mars is so utterly desolate that it's full of literal child slaves and children are joining PMCs as child soldiers to be able to not starve to death(and joining one of those PMCs requires you to undergo incredibly risky surgery that has a huge chance of either killing you outright or crippling you permanently until you die in horrible agony)? It's not a matter of "he didn't want to be abused by the cops so he joined the cops", it was a matter of "he chose possibly the only career path that actually existed for him to allow him to survive". Are all the Tekkadan kids bootlickers who deserve to die too because they signed up and worked for an organization of slave-using monsters who used children as cannon fodder and human shields? Don't say "but they rose up against that", because most of them didn't; Orga and his immediate group of friends did, and only when the perfect opportunity beckoned after living with the status quo for an indeterminate amount of time.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:15
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Kanos posted:Did you miss the entire part where Mars is so utterly desolate that it's full of literal child slaves and children are joining PMCs as child soldiers to be able to not starve to death(and joining one of those PMCs requires you to undergo incredibly risky surgery that has a huge chance of either killing you outright or crippling you permanently until you die in horrible agony)? There's a difference between the Tekkadan boys joining up to the CGS and Ein joining up to Gjallarhorn. The former is a symptom of the latter. Mars is a shithole because Gjallarhorn is oppressing Martian sovereignty to curry favour with the Earth factions' and their resource demands. Think of it like the Combine in Half Life. Regular citizens join the Metrocops to get a decent meal and then they're out on the streets abusing the less fortunate, but they're still treated like poo poo by the Combine. Overwatch soldiers are the next step up from the CP units and they've been cybernetically altered like Ein was. Theyre no better off and the Combine homeworld still treats them as expendable shock troopers rather than equals. The situation on Mars is pretty much how real world governments keep people from organizing against them. Sow fear and distrust in economically depressed regions and keep them fighting amongst themselves rather than attacking the root cause of their suffering. It's not about breaking the system, it's about finding someone worse off than you and beating on them to keep what you have rather than striking the rear end in a top hat who rigged the whole thing in their favour. I have no sympathy for Ein. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 17:31
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Arcsquad12 posted:There's a difference between the Tekkadan boys joining up to the CGS and Ein joining up to Gjallarhorn. The former is a symptom of the latter. Mars is a shithole because Gjallarhorn is oppressing Martian sovereignty to curry favour with the Earth factions' and their resource demands. This is all objectively true but at the same time the distinction would not matter to a starving Martian kid trained to focus exclusively on his own survival and well-being and primed to imprint on the first kindly old man not to be a complete monster to him. Tunnel vision and propaganda, not to mention the damage inflicted by upbringing, are very much specific and resonant themes of IBO.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:48
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Ein's fate is a tragedy but sympathy is subjective. I can acknowledge that he got hosed over but I still think he was an impressionable idiot who deserved what he got. Tekkadan is fighting to change their fortunes, Gjallarhorn is fighting to sustain a status quo. I may find Tekkadan disturbing but I'm not about to join the fascists over it.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:51
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I love how Kudelia’s shopping adventure starts with talk about new dresses but her actual shopping list is mountains of soap and deodorant for these awful, smelly boys. It’s a comic counterpoint to when she realizes that for all her desire to help the poor of Mars, she hadn’t ever asked them what they needed. So she starts a literacy program.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:Ein's fate is a tragedy but sympathy is subjective. I can acknowledge that he got hosed over but I still think he was an impressionable idiot who deserved what he got. Tekkadan is fighting to change their fortunes, Gjallarhorn is fighting to sustain a status quo. I may find Tekkadan disturbing but I'm not about to join the fascists over it. Tekkadan is fighting for a status quo where they are the jack booted thugs who have the power. They want to overthrow the cops to be the new cops. Kudelia is the only person who wants to actually change the system.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:30
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Ethiser posted:Tekkadan is fighting for a status quo where they are the jack booted thugs who have the power. They want to overthrow the cops to be the new cops. Kudelia is the only person who wants to actually change the system. Maybe that's where things are going but I've only finished season 1 and I didn't get that sense. They were trying to put themselves on the map but it felt more like making a name for themselves as a reliable private business rather than being the big bosses who control everything for personal gain.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:46
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Ethiser posted:Tekkadan is fighting for a status quo where they are the jack booted thugs who have the power. They want to overthrow the cops to be the new cops. This is absolutely not the case. What is the case is that Orga has no loving clue what he's doing or what he wants, other than "for things to be better for my crew." He has no idea how to make things better, or even what "better" means, except that they have some money and some food in their bellies and no adults beating them. He's a child leading a gang of children with the commensurate level of maturity, accidentally bumbling around on the stage of international politics because he has a gun. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 19:14
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Lemon-Lime posted:This is absolutely not the case. Season 2 stuff Orga goes along with McGillis because he says they can be the “King of Mars” once he is in charge. Just because they are naive and idiots politically doesn’t mean they don’t want to be at the top of a might makes right system where they have the power.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:23
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| # ? May 27, 2024 17:01 |
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Ethiser posted:Orga goes along with McGillis because he says they can be the “King of Mars” once he is in charge. Yes, he still has no idea what that actually means beyond what I just described. Multiple characters call him out on this throughout the show. The whole point of it is that he's a child with a child's grasp on things.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:46
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