|
CommonShore posted:So what's the sweet spot on price-quality ratios on the table saw? Would I be better off with a well maintained 1985 craftsman saw or dropping $400+ on a new name brand one? Or I've known people who have bought craftsman table saws (1950-60s) and have dumped enough money in aftermarket parts to buy a new Grizzly cabinet-style table saw. If you're going the vintage route, read up on the parts you need to make it safe and useful. (belts, riving knives, fence, inserts, guards, possibly a new motor, etc.) When you're done all you might have left from the original is a table top.
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 01:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 18:59 |
|
|
Blistex posted:read up on the parts you need to make it safe and useful. (belts, riving knives, fence, inserts, guards, possibly a new motor, etc.) I saw this for sale in the local area. I assume its good to go? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 01:56
|
|
|
I strongly considered buying and refurbing an old table saw with a cast iron table, but nobody on CL posts model #s, so you don't know if the one you got is a candidate for retrofitting with niceties like a riving knife. That, and I don't have space to permanently install it somewhere in my shop, so it needs to be mobile (read: less than 200 lb). Idk, maybe I'll refurb old iron next time, but for now I just wanted something safe that works
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 03:53
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I saw this for sale in the local area. I assume its good to go? Holy poo poo, what's the size on that blade?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 03:56
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I saw this for sale in the local area. I assume its good to go? Aftermarket parts list includes: Riving knife Extra fingers
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 03:59
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I saw this for sale in the local area. I assume its good to go? That the saw that killed Johnny Cash's brother?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 04:11
|
|
|
Blistex posted:I've known people who have bought craftsman table saws (1950-60s) and have dumped enough money in aftermarket parts to buy a new Grizzly cabinet-style table saw. If you're going the vintage route, read up on the parts you need to make it safe and useful. (belts, riving knives, fence, inserts, guards, possibly a new motor, etc.) When you're done all you might have left from the original is a table top. Well in this case it's my dad's, and he doesn't use it much so he has been talking about giving it to me, so it will be a free table saw if I go this route. It has all of the ports with tons of special blades, though I think he may have "lost" the guards over the years. It has been well maintained and largely lightly used, though it may have received worse care in the last 3 or 4 years. What I'm not sure about is whether older table saws are any good in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 04:20
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Well in this case it's my dad's, and he doesn't use it much so he has been talking about giving it to me, so it will be a free table saw if I go this route. It has all of the ports with tons of special blades, though I think he may have "lost" the guards over the years. It has been well maintained and largely lightly used, though it may have received worse care in the last 3 or 4 years. Most of the heavy ones were fine, if not great, as long as you realize that safety was never part of their design considerations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 04:29
|
|
|
I’m going to put together this planter tomorrow. I've never built anything this big/load bearing before; do I need to use glue (I have Gorilla wood glue) in addition to screws when joining the sides and legs? Or just screws?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:00
|
|
|
Blistex posted:I've known people who have bought craftsman table saws (1950-60s) and have dumped enough money in aftermarket parts to buy a new Grizzly cabinet-style table saw. If you're going the vintage route, read up on the parts you need to make it safe and useful. (belts, riving knives, fence, inserts, guards, possibly a new motor, etc.) When you're done all you might have left from the original is a table top. This is one of two things that made me stop looking on Craigslist for old iron. Of all those table saws on CL, few of them came with a fence, none of them had a riving knife or guard, and who knows what kind of shape the motor, spindle, bearings, arbor etc. are in. Would rather not buy the Table Saw of Theseus and pay for the privilege. CommonShore posted:What I'm not sure about is whether older table saws are any good in the first place. From what I understand, the motor is going to be very heavy and underpowered compared to a modern counterpart, and a lot of them can't be retrofitted with a riving knife short of re-machining the table to accommodate it. HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:07
|
|
|
I have an old table saw. It was good enough in the 80s for this old house to glow about. It is now a shaky nightmare death trap that does not cut particularly straight, and this is after substantial rehabbing by my FIL, who's an expert Carpenter + luthier. If I didn't have to keep my table saw outside I'd replace it in a heartbeat
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:15
|
|
|
Keep an eye out on Amazon, ebay, CL, Kijiji, facebook, etc. Deals happen if you're vigilant. I picked up my Grizzly Polar Bear cabinet saw for $798 CDN with free shipping on Amazon. A few days later it was $1175.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:16
|
|
|
Hobbyists don't actually need the power tool most likely to send you to the emergency room in order to do good work. Don't buy table saws, this goes triple for cheap ones.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:20
|
|
|
Rock My Socks! posted:I’m going to put together this planter tomorrow. I've never built anything this big/load bearing before; do I need to use glue (I have Gorilla wood glue) in addition to screws when joining the sides and legs? Or just screws? It can't hurt, but I've built several planters out of construction lumber and the weak point has been the lumber rotting after 5 years or so, which is fine, because then I make another one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 05:41
|
|
|
more falafel please posted:It can't hurt, but I've built several planters out of construction lumber and the weak point has been the lumber rotting after 5 years or so, which is fine, because then I make another one. Thanks! That actually leads to my follow up question- I’m using pine, which probably isn’t the best material for outdoor use. Should it be OK (for a few years at least) if I paint it? GEMorris posted:Hobbyists don't actually need the power tool most likely to send you to the emergency room in order to do good work. That’s what I thought too, but every how-to video on youtube assumes that you have a table saw as if it was something you could get at CVS at 2am. What’s the best thing for a hobbyist to have in its place? Bouillon Rube fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 06:03
|
|
|
Rock My Socks! posted:Thanks! That actually leads to my follow up question- I’m using pine, which probably isn’t the best material for outdoor use. Should it be OK (for a few years at least) if I paint it? I make do with the hilti track-saw i got in 2005. Turns out the loving guide track profile is compatible with festool so I have made furniture with the thing amongst all sort of fiddly stuff and it still works like a champ.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 06:15
|
|
|
Noooo you asked the question, now we get to hear GEMorris proselytize about bandsaws again. I made a stool. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 12:42
|
|
|
NomNomNom posted:Noooo you asked the question, now we get to hear GEMorris proselytize about bandsaws again. I went back and looked at the pics of his shop, I was sure I would see a table saw. Nope! Just a big fancy bandsaw. Oh dear what have I done I'm going to cut off my fingers  NomNomNom posted:I made a stool. Nice! Rutibex fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 14:08
|
|
|
I use those Microjig splitters since mine is too old for a riving knife. You have to make a few different inserts to account for blade height and I won't use a dado blade set any time soon, but other than that it seems fine? Why would I use a dado set instead of a router anyways? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 15:03
|
|
|
Rock My Socks! posted:
I use a combination of track saw and bandsaw+planer/handplane for rip cuts. I use a miter box or track saw for crosscuts. I use a router or panel saw + router plane for dadoes, and a plough plane for grooves. You wouldn't necessarily do all of those operations on a table saw, especially a small cheap one, but they are the operations commonly associated with table saws. That is a lot of stuff. What I could get by with to replace those ops is a bandsaw, a handplane (no. 5-8 sized), a crosscut panel saw, shop made shooting board, and a router plane. I don't want to have the superiority argument, and I won't. I just want to make sure folks know the table saw is not a necessity and statistically it is the least safe for a home shop.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 15:09
|
|
|
How do we feel about plywood workbenches with the table top non-flush with the legs and ketchup on steak?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 15:30
|
|
|
The thing is, bandsaws and tablesaws are very different machines that really aren't interchangeable and the argument about which is 'better' is based on the false premise that they interchangeable. They have one thing in common-rip cuts-but are otherwise very different machines. The table saw (with a riving knife!!!)makes good rip cuts in dressed, flat thin lumber that isn't inclined to warp. It can be extra dangerous if used for ripping rough lumber or warpy lumber, as either can pinch the blade (esp. without a splitter) and cause kickback. With some very simple jigs, the tablesaw can also be used to edge joint/straight-line rip stock. The table saw is excellent for dealing with sheet goods of all sorts and making straight, square cuts. It can also be a very useful joinery machine and with a crosscut sled it is an effective crosscut saw. I mostly use my table saw for crosscutting and joinery-dadoing, tenoning, rabbeting, etc. The way a table saw cuts, with the blade spinning towards the user and trying to push the work back towards the user is inherently more dangerous than a bandsaw. That is not to say it can't be used safely, but it is by nature a more dangerous beast, especially when used to rip solid wood. Tablesaws need a lot of space-not just infeed/outfeed, but also to either side of the blade, and they are safest when they have a large outfeed table. They get extra dangerous without outfeed support on longer work. The bandsaw makes good rip cuts in all kinds of solid lumber-even undressed or warped stuff. Because the blade is fairly narrow, warped stock won't pinch or bind. It cuts a small kerf, but leaves a rough cut that needs to be cleaned up with a jointer (hand plane or machine). The bandsaw can also resaw lumber (make thick wood into thin wood) and do a little bit of the job a thickness planer does, but less efficiently and less accurately. You can also cut curves on a bandsaw, and it handles thick (2"+) stock much better than a tablesaw. It can do a little bit of joinery as well-it cuts the cheeks of tenons well, and I use mine with a miter gauge for cutting/mitering trim. Much easier and safer to cut small pieces than a chopsaw. The way the bandsaw cuts-pushing the blade and the work down towards the table-is inherently safer than a table saw. You can get halfway through a cut, leave the saw on, and walk away and nothing bad will happen. Unless you actually push your body parts into the moving blade, it will not hurt you. There is no such thing as kickback on a bandsaw. The bandsaw is the most used machine in my shop, by far. That's ideal bandsaws and tablesaws. In reality, its a bit more complicated. Bandsaws are a little finnickier than table saws. If they aren't set up well (bearings/guides set correctly, blade tensioned correctly and tracking straight) they are miserable to use, and learning how to set one up isn't super intuitive. Tablesaws, especially contractor saws, are pretty much plug and play. Cost and portability are issues too. By nature, bandsaws are bigger and more complex machines than tablesaws. The entry point for bandsaws is about $600 for a 14" grizzly, but you can get contractor table saws for $200 (please god do not buy a $200 bandsaw), and even then those smaller saws are limited in both rip and resaw capacity, whereas a contractor saw can be built into a bigger table and have huge rip capacity. So what should you get? I think the home woodworker that mostly works with solid wood will be best served by a decent bandsaw. It can't do the joinery a TS can, but a handheld router with a fence or in a table can do all of that as well as a tablesaw, and a ton more besides. My old boss's recommendation (and his old boss's recommendation) for the first three big machines a woodshop ought to have were a bandsaw, a jointer, and a drill press, in that order, and I think that's good advice. That being said, for a beginner, and especially a cost conscious beginner, a contractor tablesaw isn't a bad place to start as long as you  ALWAYS USE THE RIVING KNIFE Rip cuts suck by hand, and it will do rip cuts and do them well. A track saw is another good option, especially if you are tight on space.
Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 15:35
|
|
|
Rock My Socks! posted:That’s what I thought too, but every how-to video on youtube assumes that you have a table saw as if it was something you could get at CVS at 2am. What’s the best thing for a hobbyist to have in its place? I'm just a baby hobbyist but seconding for circular saw + track (I'm using kreg's accucut rather than a real track saw). Getting repeatable, consistently-sized cuts can be tricky, but if you make jigs when you can there's a whole lot you can get away with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 15:37
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:I use a combination of track saw and bandsaw+planer/handplane for rip cuts. I use a miter box or track saw for crosscuts. I use a router or panel saw + router plane for dadoes, and a plough plane for grooves. I'm mostly in this camp, but without the bandsaw or router. I use a kerfing plane and ryoba saw for rip cuts. Works well, but it does take a little extra time to set up and then clean up the edge. Routers are terrible machines and I had my worst workshop injury on one (not toooo bad, chewed up the side of my finger a bit) so I plan on never using one ever again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 16:30
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:I use a combination of track saw and bandsaw+planer/handplane for rip cuts. I use a miter box or track saw for crosscuts. I use a router or panel saw + router plane for dadoes, and a plough plane for grooves. I know you hate tablesaws and I don't want to argue the point either; but you can't tell a "hobbyist" to buy a dozen specialty tools that are each in itself difficult to hone (both sharpness and skill), take 3x as long to make a cut, and combined cost the same, if not more, as a high end tablesaw. A small table saw is meant for jobsite work where precision is not required. If you want precision get a proper cabinet saw.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 16:41
|
|
|
JEEVES420 posted:I know you hate tablesaws and I don't want to argue the point either; but you can't tell a "hobbyist" to buy a dozen specialty tools that are each in itself difficult to hone (both sharpness and skill), take 3x as long to make a cut, and combined cost the same, if not more, as a high end tablesaw. I absolutely can tell folks that if safety is my primary concern. I gave a shorter list of tools as well, tools any hobbyist will likely need regardless. The longer list of tools may cost more than a "high-end" table saw (because its an ambiguously defined term) but they certainly make the hobbyist capable of far more than a table saw would. Learning to set up/sharpen/build jigs for is a cost one pays for every tool. All of my post aside, if I lost all my tools and had to start from scratch the first thing I'd likely buy today is the Kreg ACS table and a Festool or Makita track saw. GEMorris fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
Quote isnt edit
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 16:55
|
|
|
GEMorris posted:The longer list of tools may cost more than a "high-end" table saw (because its an ambiguously defined term) but they certainly make the hobbyist capable of far more than a table saw would. And, uh, some of those tools you can make pretty easily. Like, a router plane can be as simple as a drilling a hole through a 2x4 and hammering in a chisel. I got away with that for a few months before making a better one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 17:02
|
|
|
For what's essentially a bookshelf with a few extra moving parts, this took way too long to make. But, daughter's happy, and that's what matters.  The wonky legs are the result of having to make design compromises after the rest was done. Math is hard. Speaking of bandsaws, I just snagged a used one. Any tips on getting this thing set up properly?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 17:32
|
|
|
Suntan Boy posted:For what's essentially a bookshelf with a few extra moving parts, this took way too long to make. But, daughter's happy, and that's what matters. That's really cool! I love stuff like this, something you could never buy at a store.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 17:35
|
|
|
Suntan Boy posted:
Any of Mark Duginske's bandsaw books are good for this. The Bandsaw Handbook can be picked up used on ebay for $5 or so. Also Michael Fortune is a pretty good source of bandsaw info as well: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2011/04/07/how-to-set-up-a-bandsaw
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 17:37
|
|
|
Suntan Boy posted:For what's essentially a bookshelf with a few extra moving parts, this took way too long to make. But, daughter's happy, and that's what matters. If it's a 3 wheel grizzly benchtop pitch it into the darkest, deepest, most damp depths.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
So I have no idea what to tell my family I want for presents, so I'm thinking about just asking for certain tools. I poked around on ebay for some old #5/6 bench planes and most of them are pretty expensive (~$75+), or at least more than I'd expect someone to drop on a present. I know that Japanese style pullsaws are nice and comparatively cheap, I love my dozuki. Are Japanese style hand/block planes the same way? If I ask for one of those am I setting myself up to be extremely disappointed and frustrated?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 18:37
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:That's really cool! I love stuff like this, something you could never buy at a store. Thanks! That's usually the impetus behind the stuff I make; what's available doesn't meet my needs, and/or is hilariously expensive. GEMorris posted:Any of Mark Duginske's bandsaw books are good for this. The Bandsaw Handbook can be picked up used on ebay for $5 or so. Much appreciated, that's all super helpful. My own googling was either turning up "put on blade, go" or building your own diy saw, which is just  Cannon_Fodder posted:If it's a 3 wheel grizzly benchtop pitch it into the darkest, deepest, most damp depths. Craftsman 2 wheel, but I have no doubt I'll occasionally be fantasizing about tossing it into a cement mixer before long. Olothreutes posted:So I have no idea what to tell my family I want for presents, so I'm thinking about just asking for certain tools. I poked around on ebay for some old #5/6 bench planes and most of them are pretty expensive (~$75+), or at least more than I'd expect someone to drop on a present. I know that Japanese style pullsaws are nice and comparatively cheap, I love my dozuki. Are Japanese style hand/block planes the same way? If I ask for one of those am I setting myself up to be extremely disappointed and frustrated? Japanese planes ostensibly do the same job as their western all-metal counterparts, but they're a whole different beast to use. They're designed to be pulled, not pushed, and they're comparatively lighter, so some downward force is also necessary; the ergonomics of the whole operation are why Japanese joinery benches are often so much lower to the ground. Also, all adjustments are made by tapping different parts of the blade and body, which can make it fiddly to set up. It's not that they're better or worse than a Stanley, but it is a whole different skillset that you'll have to get used to. They do tend to run cheaper, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
Suntan Boy posted:For what's essentially a bookshelf with a few extra moving parts, this took way too long to make. But, daughter's happy, and that's what matters. Lonnie Bird's 'The Bandsaw book' is good too. What flavor saw? The most important thing imo is getting the guides adjusted correctly, which isn't that hard, but takes a bit of feel. This is a little slick and salesmaney, but it's pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 19:45
|
|
|
Kaiser Schnitzel posted:That is a neat little desk (sewing table?). Thanks! Sewing table, modern art cupboard, springboard for elves? Nominally a desk, but who's to say for sure? The saw is an older 2-wheel Craftsman benchtop 9". With a whole 1/3 hp turning the thing, I'm expecting to outgrow it before long, but it'll get the handful of small jobs I have for it done faster than by hand. Bonus points for doubling as a scroll saw. Thanks for the link and suggestion, those were helpful! Also just realized I need a guide. Blah, time to buy some bearings. Suntan Boy fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Dec 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 22:23
|
|
|
Post your woodworking youtuber tier list: Z-Tier Wranglestar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP0FnVmpBUs B-Tier Artisan Pirate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgSJJBcggLU Hans Meier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1PJ31efjM A-Tier Steve Ramsey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBIcl3cV1Yc Paul Sellers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ypbvcxb-8M S-Tier Rex Kruger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Agk6tJtRs0 Advoko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiHRYyBQyrw Amu-Tier Grandpa Amu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlOS4Qzop1o
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 22:54
|
|
|
Steve and Ishitani (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOFHUfZMF_o) are my whole list
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
Great list, I'll add https://www.youtube.com/user/mcremona Mathew Cremona does lots of wood slabbing videos, watching huge tree pieces get turned into slabs is great, and then he also does some woodwork/building vids https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-_lYeV8hBnDSay7nmphUA Ship of Theseusing a 100 year old schooner using traditional wood shipbuilding techniques
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 23:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 18:59 |
|
|
is S tier good or bad? e. I've become hooked on this dude's sawmill videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BAvPsLPyfo
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2020 23:10
|
|