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Zapf Dingbat posted:So did they ever solve the power problem or if bitcoin is adopted by the entire world will it require the power of a thousand suns
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Dec 30, 2020 23:18
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Gobbeldygook posted:The power consumption of Bitcoin has nothing to do with how many people use it. The network can only process seven transactions per second across the entire world because of arbitrary technical limitations. You could run the entire network on a very cheap phone. The power consumption is due to mining being a Red Queen's Race. Sure, but that's besides the point. It doesn't matter if that's technically possible as long as that scenario is effectively impossible given the economics of it. So if the question is "have they solved bitcoin's problem of incredibly excessive energy use in real-world scenarios", then no, they haven't (and won't). Just like they haven't (and won't) solve bitcoin's problems with speed and transaction throughput in realistic scenarios. Of course, none of this matters because a handful of computer-touchers have made money off of it despite its obvious problems, and if I made money off of it then obviously it is revolutionary and I am a genius.
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Dec 30, 2020 23:33
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Zefiel posted:To be fair and to play devil’s advocate it seems all of us nocoiners are lusting for the day when bitcoin comes crashing down, which should be any day now, and it seems eerily symmetrical with how coiners lust for the day when bitcoin reaches the moon, which will also be any day now, yet it’s been now, what, how many years? And neither has happened. I get that in the theoretical it’s way more likely that Bitcoin will fail eventually, as opposed to “the singularity” happening, (lol) yet so far both options seem equally as likely to never happen. The technology is inherently wasteful and selfish because the energy that keeps cryptocoins "secure" comes from non-renewable sources like cheap coal power in China. Every satoshi spent is energy that could have gone toward literally any other use and been more productive for humanity at large, including refining uranium for nuclear weapons. At least the Chinese making more nuclear weapons encourages the MAD doctrine in India-China conflicts and reduces the chances of their insane high altitude border war going hot. Likewise, the resources poured into making specialized computer hardware for mining crypto could have been used to make something that has actual use outside of a Libertarian fever dream. The only moral course of action is to remind people this technology is immature, run by the absolute greediest short-sighted people possible, and often used to facilitate actual crimes from arms dealing to tax evasion.
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Dec 31, 2020 00:02
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The power isn't wasted
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Dec 31, 2020 00:22
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the actual amount of data changing in a transaction which is the useful part of the work (senders balance # going down, receivers balance # going up) requires about the processing power of one of those old fashioned solar power calculators so its reasonable that the actual effective work of bitcoin uses the power equivalent of 7 nuclear power plants (surely more now) of mainly coal
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Dec 31, 2020 00:36
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ghosTTy posted:The power isn't wasted got a graph for that? comparing the estimated accumulated global energy costs since its inception to bitcoin’s market cap over time could be fun
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Dec 31, 2020 00:38
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ghosTTy posted:The power isn't wasted I encourage you to stop lying.
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Dec 31, 2020 00:55
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John_A_Tallon posted:I encourage you to stop lying. And face the reality of having wasted the last few years of your life and who knows how much money? I think not! Post your dog dick coffee table Ghosttittay, of course you have one. With graphics of dog dick growth over time
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Dec 31, 2020 01:11
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ghosTTy posted:The power isn't wasted Every single computer all over the world has to update the blockchain every time it is changed. Unless I am mistaken about this. But if I am not, that is a huge amount of wasted energy. Massive. And growing. This is the single worst aspect of BTC.
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Dec 31, 2020 02:12
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No, that's the trivial part honestly (though storing the blockchain is going to be a non-trivial amount of storage space in a world that is already creating petabytes of data monthly). The problem is that mining is an activity designed to be anti-efficient; the more you can throw at it, the better off you are even if that activity contributes nothing to the real activity of recording transactions. If your goal is to create a system that can record what people do, then blockchain is the most wasteful way to do it. If the real goal is to fleece rubes by creating an economic system that grants vast riches to people who can accumulate the most capital and acquire sweetheart deals from (literal) powerbrokers then boyhowdy is blockchain a great use of electricity!
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Dec 31, 2020 03:06
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Proof of work is the sole innovation contained in Bitcoin, and it's the idea that instead of placing the trust of maintaining the ledger in a single person or organization, you instead place that trust in strangers proportional to the amount of electricity they are willing to burn, with the idea being that competition will then ensure that no single person can ever take control of it. In a very real sense, if Bitcoin ever stopped wasting ludicrous amounts of electricity, it would stop being Bitcoin.
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Dec 31, 2020 03:53
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what if instead of the current world order where power is brokered by states with nuclear programs, strong economies and trade relationships... we forget about the productivity and trade 
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Dec 31, 2020 04:15
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It's like watching libertarians reinvent chattel slavery but insist it's fine this time because a contract's involved.
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Dec 31, 2020 04:19
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Liquid Communism posted:It's like watching libertarians reinvent chattel slavery but insist it's fine this time because a contract's involved. Bitcoiin indentured servants
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Dec 31, 2020 05:30
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John_A_Tallon posted:The only moral course of action is to remind people this technology is immature, run by the absolute greediest short-sighted people possible, and often used to facilitate actual crimes from arms dealing to tax evasion. Ah, so that's why my former boss started a company called "Distributed Ledger" and dedicated a lot of his rackspace to mining.
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Dec 31, 2020 14:26
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ghosTTy posted:The power isn't wasted
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Dec 31, 2020 15:00
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John_A_Tallon posted:The only moral course of action is to remind people this technology is immature, run by the absolute greediest short-sighted people possible, and often used to facilitate actual crimes from arms dealing to tax evasion. The only ethical choice is to divest your wealth from the state. Force your government to capitulate to bitcoin by starving its currency of value. And that is exactly what's going to happen to every sovereign nation on Earth, sooner or later.
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Dec 31, 2020 17:49
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It's kind of rare to see a post so detached from reality that it sort of self-implodes into a singularity of delusion upon the merest critical glance. A post so wrong that no rebuttal is necessary. Also, hi Seraph, please take your meds.
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Dec 31, 2020 18:00
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kw0134 posted:It's kind of rare to see a post so detached from reality that it sort of self-implodes into a singularity of delusion upon the merest critical glance. A post so wrong that no rebuttal is necessary. Also, hi Seraph, please take your meds.
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Dec 31, 2020 18:02
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I know in the government free anarchy you apparently jerk off to anyone with an inkjet printer can create a certificate to be a shrink, but you should really look into the present reality of getting your clear manic phases under control. Or not, keeping the an Internet 1.0 web forum up is kind of a good act.
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Dec 31, 2020 18:06
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kw0134 posted:I know in the government free anarchy you apparently jerk off to anyone with an inkjet printer can create a certificate to be a shrink, but you should really look into the present reality of getting your clear manic phases under control. Or not, keeping the an Internet 1.0 web forum up is kind of a good act.
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Dec 31, 2020 18:08
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gee bill how come your mom lets you have three lawyers
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Dec 31, 2020 18:19
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See you in another $10! Accumulating permas is a form of investment, right?
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Dec 31, 2020 18:19
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probated before he could stage his defence
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Dec 31, 2020 18:20
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kw0134 posted:See you in another $10! Accumulating permas is a form of investment, right? are you a writer btw?
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Dec 31, 2020 18:21
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CantStopWhatsComin posted:You'd be manic too if your net worth was increasing by an average of 100,000-200,000$ per day for the past two and a half months. Pics or it didnt happen See you tomorrow btw
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Dec 31, 2020 18:25
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Crime on a Dime posted:are you a writer btw?
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Dec 31, 2020 18:26
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“I’m not owned, I’m not owned” I repeat as my net worth increases by an average of 100,000-200,000$ per day for the past two and a half months. Then I realize I left one of my TrentReznor units rolled into my bitcoin socks, and now it’s soaked and ruined from going through the laundry
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Dec 31, 2020 18:45
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who among us can really say that, after improving their net worth $7,500,000 to $15,000,000 in two and a half months, they could resist the temptation of spending their newly unlimited and boundless leisure time by going through the hassle of multiple daily reregs to keep shitposting about block chains
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Dec 31, 2020 18:56
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No you see it's the same 100-200k per day, like sisyphus and the boulder but with "investments"
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Dec 31, 2020 19:00
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For 100k a day, I'd make it my life's mission to never poop in the same toilet more than once.
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Dec 31, 2020 19:02
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Zefiel posted:“I’m not owned, I’m not owned” I repeat as my net worth increases by an average of 100,000-200,000$ per day for the past two and a half months. Then I realize I left one of my TrentReznor units rolled into my bitcoin socks, and now it’s soaked and ruined from going through the laundry
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Dec 31, 2020 19:03
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nomad2020 posted:For 100k a day, I'd make it my life's mission to never poop in the same toilet more than once.
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Dec 31, 2020 19:09
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That actually seems on brand for Bitcoin, I'm in. Is it too late to make a shitcoin joke?
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Dec 31, 2020 19:11
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Shumagorath posted:joke's on you; he doesn't have laundry Half a million dollars for a studio apartment and coin op laundry. Bet the machines don't even take bitcoin
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Dec 31, 2020 19:16
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orange juche posted:Half a million dollars for a studio apartment and coin op laundry. Bet the machines don't even take bitcoin I still wanna know how to pull out real money (1.) quickly, (2.) in large amounts (large is relative), and (3.) without getting your accounts shut down for suspected money laundering in a US bank. I used to work with my brother 20 years ago with his contracting/house flipping business. After a few years of small jobs he would take on more complex and larger jobs, at what point he was pulling in millions per quarter in cash flow (thin margins, admittedly) and had several $100,000 pieces of heavy equipment. Loans were easy to qualify for and substantial in amounts. Of USD. With good sense and great credit, his workers earned good money and he often bought QoL-improving machines for the labor force. If the big generator went bye-bye he could drop $75,000 on a brand new one with a couple of calls to the accounting firm and the small rural bank my family used since 1982 and not only started our first savings account with, but so did our kids. He lost his money-makers in 2009, but had enough to sell equipment and facilities and retire. How would a Bitcoin holder run such a business? If your empire dwarfed his USD with 1 billion “worth” of btc, can you withdraw a lot of money quickly to pay for needed big machinery replacement or even just to cover payroll? Especially if you got in as missing the Goxxing and haircuts and had a billion dollars in Tether? Can you function in the real financial world and buy a Ford 250 with Bitcoin? Can you pay for Netflix with a “smart” contract, and get your overweight brother a large order of McDonald’s fries with lite coin? Sponsor a NASCAR team with Doge (wait, I meant Etherium)? Do you carry 100 Trazors to the co-op board and dump $500,000 of btc on a (razor-thin liquid) exchange, crashing the market 687% in five minutes? Goddamn cryptocurrency is useless and has no “value,” no matter what Andrea “the Lack of Charisma” Antometropolis says.
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Dec 31, 2020 19:57
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Telarra posted:Proof of work is the sole innovation contained in Bitcoin, and it's the idea that instead of placing the trust of maintaining the ledger in a single person or organization, you instead place that trust in strangers proportional to the amount of electricity they are willing to burn, with the idea being that competition will then ensure that no single person can ever take control of it. In a very real sense, if Bitcoin ever stopped wasting ludicrous amounts of electricity, it would stop being Bitcoin. There is also an equitable exchange between a retired senior citizen pressure sold an electricity reselling contract by a registered electric company licensed to use the distribution network for resale of electric credit. A smart observer might realize equitable is not the same as efficient when we force the use of markets for every large thing that should be social.
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Dec 31, 2020 19:58
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I have never bought anything legal with bitcoin, hth
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Dec 31, 2020 20:46
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DerekSmartymans posted:I still wanna know how to pull out real money (1.) quickly, (2.) in large amounts (large is relative), and (3.) without getting your accounts shut down for suspected money laundering in a US bank. The only way I know of to quickly pull out real money is to have your BTC on a banked exchange like Coinbase, and sell it for USD/withdraw USD when you need to. (And I use "quickly" as a relative term, since I have no idea how fast Coinbase is about wiring out USD, or how deep their order book is and how soon you might crash the price if you try selling a lot at once.) But of course that defeats some of the supposed purpose of having bitcoin in the first place, as to do that you're not actually in possession of your bitcoin, the exchange is, and you're at the mercy of the exchange and their trustworthiness and security - and you're not actually transacting anything on the blockchain, you're just making trades with other Coinbase customers on Coinbase's own ledgers. This situation is even *more* centralized than trading in stocks and bonds - at least in those markets, the brokerages that hold your securities are not one and the same with the exchange on which they are traded. The core problem that bitcoin advocates keep dancing around is that bitcoin is fundamentally unviable as a medium of exchange. The design of bitcoin, from both a technical and an economic standpoint, make it such that it is never going to see widespread use as a form of money. Inherently deflationary, not fungible, low transactional capacity, high transactional expenses, extremely difficult to use, extremely difficult to secure, inherently public and non-anonymous - this is not a desirable set of attributes for a medium of exchange! There are one of two ways bitcoin advocates address this problem: 1) just yell "you're wrong," with either an incoherent explanation or vague promises that some innovation will change the situation at some vague point in the future, or 2) sidestep it by saying "it's a store of value" rather than a medium of exchange. If #1, then we just go in circles. If #2, then we go down the different argument of why it's a dumb idea for a store of value, which then ends in yelling "you're wrong" with a different incoherent explanation. So it has been for close to a decade now, so it shall be for the rest of our lives. I can't wait for seraph's rereg later today to call me an idiot for failing to see the light.
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Dec 31, 2020 20:56
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^^^ That's the good stuff there.
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Dec 31, 2020 21:37
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