Idiots Thread - From the Balls of Montezuma - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Idiots Thread - From the Balls of Montezuma

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

That reminds me of something that is both a canonical paratroop story and a canonical Gurkha story.

In WW2 the British were looking to convert a Gurkha battalion into paratroops. They pulled the battalion into mess and broke out a film project and put on a training film about paratroops. Some nitwit had got the wrong film, it was one about defending against a parachute assault, had lots of shooting at men in chutes, and ended with the line, "if your unit does everything right, there's no reason a single enemy will reach the ground alive."

Luckily for the brass, the Gurkhas don't speak English and as far as they're concerned they just watched a film with lots of shouting, shooting, and chuting. The whole battalion put their hands up for jump school.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 10:03

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 9, 2024 11:38

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

The difference is that paratroopers intend to do you harm once they�re on the ground. They�re essentially advancing on you in an unconventional direction and leaving themselves exposed as they do it.

Sucks to be them, but shooting them as they drop is no worse than shooting at soldiers charging across no man�s land.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 10:04

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

NightGyr posted:

Pilots who've bailed out are iffy, but paratroopers are fair game.

Yeager had a story about that. Said he saw a nazi pilot shooting up crewmen who had bailed from a bomber. He got on the guy and nipped away at him till the pilot bailed, then made drat sure he went to the ground as hamburger.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 11:38

Thump!: Nov 25, 2007; Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!

As I recall in the marksmanship FM there�s actually diagrams on how to do the lead when aiming in on paratroopers, depending on the distance, wind, and rate of descent.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 14:05

Steezo: Jun 16, 2003; Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Thump! posted:

As I recall in the marksmanship FM there�s actually diagrams on how to do the lead when aiming in on paratroopers, depending on the distance, wind, and rate of descent.

Or you know, just have the team leader point at them with tracers and let the machine gunners do what machine gunners gonna do.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 14:10

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

My sick Tribes chaingun + MA disc skills would translate to dozens of confirmed paratrooper kills

# ? Jan 22, 2021 19:26

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

ded posted:

Yeager had a story about that. Said he saw a nazi pilot shooting up crewmen who had bailed from a bomber. He got on the guy and nipped away at him till the pilot bailed, then made drat sure he went to the ground as hamburger.

https://youtu.be/Q8LVlYJ5eJU

# ? Jan 22, 2021 19:43

McNally: Sep 13, 2007; Ask me about Proposition 305

Do you like muskets?

mllaneza posted:

That reminds me of something that is both a canonical paratroop story and a canonical Gurkha story.

In WW2 the British were looking to convert a Gurkha battalion into paratroops. They pulled the battalion into mess and broke out a film project and put on a training film about paratroops. Some nitwit had got the wrong film, it was one about defending against a parachute assault, had lots of shooting at men in chutes, and ended with the line, "if your unit does everything right, there's no reason a single enemy will reach the ground alive."

Luckily for the brass, the Gurkhas don't speak English and as far as they're concerned they just watched a film with lots of shouting, shooting, and chuting. The whole battalion put their hands up for jump school.

I've heard a similar story, but instead of the film bit the version I heard said that the brass was surprised when only half of the battalion volunteered for jump training.

They questioned those who didn't volunteer and asked why they didn't want to become paratroopers.

"Oh, we get parachutes?"

# ? Jan 22, 2021 19:59

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

McNally posted:

They questioned those who didn't volunteer and asked why they didn't want to become paratroopers.

"Oh, we get parachutes?"

# ? Jan 22, 2021 20:03

ded: Oct 27, 2005; Kooler than Jesus

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

https://youtu.be/Q8LVlYJ5eJU

OH that was bud. sorry got my heros mixed up!

# ? Jan 22, 2021 22:46

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

I more just posted it because its an amazing moment, not to well actually you

# ? Jan 22, 2021 23:12

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

McNally posted:

I've heard a similar story, but instead of the film bit the version I heard said that the brass was surprised when only half of the battalion volunteered for jump training.

They questioned those who didn't volunteer and asked why they didn't want to become paratroopers.

"Oh, we get parachutes?"

This is the story I heard from some Brits.

I've met a few Gurkha while I was in Iraq. They were contractors guarding a building in the Green Zone. There is something terrifying about tiny, kind, quiet dudes who hold no fear. They also liked to sneak up to the T Wall and start conversations at 330 at night. You'd be just watching your sector, then a chipper "Hi! Tea?" with big smiles barely visible over the wall.

I also watched one take a running start and soccer kick a suspected IED like it was loving cool.

A friend said his Grandad during WW2 was on sentry duty, and felt a very gentle touch on his helmet, then a whispered "OK!". The story goes that the Gurkha felt helmet brims- and knife the dudes wearing the German ones.

My favorite story is absolutely true. In AFG on a HVT mission, a Gurkha brought back the head and a hand that he lopped off when they were counter attacked and had to withdrawal. Why? PID. He told his commander, "I'm sorry I didn't get the other hand."

# ? Jan 22, 2021 23:37

Grem: Mar 29, 2004; Can't post for 19 days!

Desert Bus posted:

So a conspiracy minded friend of mine thinks that all the troops with their backs turned in this video are doing it to disrespect Biden. I think that they're watching for possible threats. I'd really appreciate your input as to which you think is correct.

https://twitter.com/InesdLC/status/1351915427589455872

I might be able to help. I was an MP on Quantico during the W years. He would ride his bike every there every Sunday. If we were blocking the road and not specifically securing the motorcade we had to have our backs turned per the Secret Service. They want as few people with weapons looking at the POTUS as possible.

# ? Jan 22, 2021 23:57

Stupid_Sexy_Flander: Mar 14, 2007; Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?; Grimey Drawer

bulletsponge13 posted:

My favorite story is absolutely true. In AFG on a HVT mission, a Gurkha brought back the head and a hand that he lopped off when they were counter attacked and had to withdrawal. Why? PID. He told his commander, "I'm sorry I didn't get the other hand."

Took me a minute, was wondering what the gently caress pelvic inflammatory disease had to do with a head and hands, and decided I didn't wanna know...

# ? Jan 23, 2021 00:03

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

Nothing too grim, PID is just "positive ID". Make sure you got the right guy.

There are generally more conventional methods employed, certainly.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:23

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

We had a few Gurkha security guards when I was on the cruise ship. Absolutely lovely people. Just don�t... piss them off.

I will never forget the sight of a 90lbs Nepalese woman choke slamming a large American frat bro into a wall and politely going �sir please calm down, or I will need to call my supervisor.�

# ? Jan 23, 2021 01:39

Thump!: Nov 25, 2007; Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!

FrozenVent posted:

We had a few Gurkha security guards when I was on the cruise ship. Absolutely lovely people. Just don�t... piss them off.

I will never forget the sight of a 90lbs Nepalese woman choke slamming a large American frat bro into a wall and politely going �sir please calm down, or I will need to call my supervisor.�

I�m starting to think we got the wrong people to be Drill Instructors

# ? Jan 23, 2021 03:30

Memento: Aug 25, 2009; Bleak Gremlin

I found out today James Earl Jones was a Ranger and also a drill instructor for the old Camp Hale mountain warfare school. Imagine going to the movies a couple of decades later and waking up with boot camp nightmares where your DI is Darth Vader

# ? Jan 23, 2021 03:38

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Memento posted:

I found out today James Earl Jones was a Ranger and also a drill instructor for the old Camp Hale mountain warfare school. Imagine going to the movies a couple of decades later and waking up with boot camp nightmares where your DI is Darth Vader

�You have failed me for the last time, Private.�

# ? Jan 23, 2021 03:54

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Tear this bay apart until you've found that contraband, and bring me the trainees, I want them to run!

# ? Jan 23, 2021 05:52

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

McNally posted:

I've heard a similar story, but instead of the film bit the version I heard said that the brass was surprised when only half of the battalion volunteered for jump training.

They questioned those who didn't volunteer and asked why they didn't want to become paratroopers.

"Oh, we get parachutes?"

I like the version where the Gurkhas talk it over amongst themselves for a couple of minutes and come back to say �we�ll do it, but drop us from no more than one hundred feet�.

�But the parachutes won�t open from that altitude!�

�Parachutes?�

# ? Jan 23, 2021 07:42

Steezo: Jun 16, 2003; Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Icon Of Sin posted:

�You have failed me for the last time, Private.�

Probably where he refined that voice. That kind of gravitas will move people who don't wanna move.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 08:00

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

"I find your lack of kit.. disturbing.."

# ? Jan 23, 2021 08:25

Wasabi the J: Jan 23, 2008; MOM WAS RIGHT

I just hope these stories aren't founded in racism.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 09:03

GD_American: Jul 21, 2004; LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Platystemon posted:

The difference is that paratroopers intend to do you harm once they�re on the ground.

The difference is that the pilot is an officer, let's be real

# ? Jan 23, 2021 09:33

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Wasabi the J posted:

I just hope these stories aren't founded in racism.

�Those drat Ghurkas are so much better than us we better make ridiculous stories about how bad rear end they are.�

Sure why not.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 09:35

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

"But Sir, you ordered us to do run to the gate and back 20 times, not 40!"
"I am altering the order, Private. Pray that I don't alter it any further."

# ? Jan 23, 2021 09:39

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

Wasabi the J posted:

I just hope these stories aren't founded in racism.

Racism or not there's enough first hand accounts of batshit accomplishments to secure their reputation forever.

A friend of my parents was an admin type in Kabul for a year and he vastly preferred the gurkha PSD contractors to the former SAS/SBS ones. He said the gurkhas wanted you to get on with your poo poo, the brits just wanted to kill people. They were also much more pleasant to have around at home.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 11:20

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

A guy in the Combat Pics thread had some interesting things to share about the Gurkhas.

ughhhh posted:

To start off, I am the first male member of my family not involved in the Gurkhas or the military. Every male member including those married to the women of my family have been in the British, Indian or Brunei gurkha units. I am where I am today directly because of the financial and educational benefits the gurkhas have provided my family, but it was also the active attempts by the generation before me to direct me and my generation away from that life. I respect what it has provided, but hate the Gurkhas as an institution.

A brief info on the gurkhas. In the early 1700�s Nepal as we know it was a collection of warring kingdoms and city states. It was finally consolidated into a single kingdom by the Gorkha Shah dynasty through a series of expansionist wars. The expansionist wars eventually led to a confrontation with the British East India Company (EIC) during the early 1800�s. So by the time of the anglo-nepalese war the EIC ended up facing an army that was experienced and well organized. The story goes that the EIC were so impressed they ended up hiring them after the war. But the reality is that this arrangement was a common practice by the british throughout their colonies using different ethnic groups to against each other (paid mercenaries are more reliable than local levies etc). The agreement benefited the Gorkha raj too, since they were at the time still consolidating their new territories which were composed of different ethnic groups.

When you look at the list of Gurkha VC recipients, you will often see a lot of last names ending in Gurung, Thapa, Lama etc. Nepal is a country with over a 100 different ethnic groups with their own religion and languages. The Gorkha raj is composed of high caste hindus and much of the territories conquered in the 1700�s were of people practicing buddhism or different forms of shamanism. So both the EIC and the Gorkha raj are dealing with controlling populations that do not share a common religion or ethnicity. By the 1850�s during after the Indian mutiny, majority of the gurkha recruits were non hindu ethnicities like Gurungs, Thapa, Lama etc. So now the Gorkha raj can export peoples of problematic populations abroad and the EIC can use a non hindu group of soldiers to put down hindus. Since then, the Gurkhas have been used in every single colonial project the British have been involved in. They (Gurkhas) were vital in putting down the local rebellions (India, Malaya, China), vital in policing the Frontiers (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bengal etc).

Social or political participation in Nepal for non hindu populations were heavily limited in the 1800�s (and in a way to this day). With the opportunity provided by the employment by the Brtitish, a lot of men left their villages to go join. In the early period, the recruitment center was in Lahor where most men walked to (to this day, men who join are called Lahore in our community). With a limited number of slots, the ability for the Gurkha regiments to pick and choose from the large pool of applicants is what I believe to be one of the reasons for their success. As the need for soldiers grew during WWI and WWII recruitment moved to Sikkim (northern india) and eventually into Nepal itself (Nepal only opened up its borders in the 1950�s). You can see the older recruitment process here in this BBC docu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2MgB5R60Mo
At 32:00 you can see the recruits singing and the narrator saying "the spending their evenings singing songs about himalayan mountains or hacking peoples heads off!". The recruits are singing a popular song from a nepali movie...

I am sure you all can see the problems with British officers picking and choosing from a selection of naked men (or the whole tone of the docu). This was in 1995, when I was very young and the maoist insurgency was slowly taking shape. The poverty and lack of services are not because Nepalis are backwards, but the Nepali royal family had been actively stalling development for years.

Porters crrying a car from India to Kathmandu for the royal family sometime in the 1950's

Nowadays Gurungs and Thapas are the richest ethnic group in Nepal. Ownership of companies and business (Bhatbhatini supermarket group, Himalayan Coffee etc) spurred by work in the Gurkhas has led to big changes within Nepal. The Civil war coupled with a large population of well educated and well off (by nepali standards) Gurkhas has led to the opening up of the government. But the caste system still exists, inequality still exists. Gurkhas who settled in and around their postings are still having problems assimilating or finding opportunities (in Hong Kong or Britain, the populations of Nepalis are regularly abused by police and work as laborers). To put it in perspective in 2007, the British government finally agreed to pay Gurkha pensioners full pensions equal to their British counterparts and to allow residency in Britain for Gurkha soldiers. My family used to talk about PTSD before it was talked of as PTSD, it was something we thought of as normal for people who became Gurkhas.

Two pics of Gurungs both taken around 1970's. The man in the uniform is my grandpa.

Sorry about long rambling post. I will try to edit it better later and answer any questions you guys have.

Edit: I want to add that social relations within the Gurung community has also been changed drastically. What was once a very matriarchal society (women had control over land, marriage, religious matters), where homosexuality was a common activity, has now become more hindu or british. With the economic power residing in the men's access to income (through the Gurkhas) and a need to be accepted into mainstream society/politics, patriarchal practices became the norm. My grandmother who still followed more of the older traditions let my mother and her sisters marry who they pleased and that was seen as a very "hillbilly" (dont know how to describe it, but people saw my family as backwards) by the rest of the community. But then again, slow transition to more patriarchy would have happened anyways without the Gurkhas probably.

Platystemon posted:

How much resentment lingers from being seen as the right arm of the empire, and how much is garden variety racism?

ughhhh posted:

Mostly just racism and resentment towards the poor. Things have gotten very strange with regards to who to hate and what history to talk of in Hong Kong over the years with resentment towards PRC taking precedence over remembering the recent past. When the handover happened with PRC in 1997 the brigade of Gurkha's stationed there was disbanded and Nepalese nationals were given the choice to remain. By that point in local memory most of the policing and repression was done by the local police which was handed over to the PRC. Gurkha's were mostly responsible for patrolling the borders. Many ex gurkha's ended up working menial jobs in the service industry (they spoke English, had "propper manners"). There was a killing of a homeless Nepali who was a vagrant in one of the HK parks that happens a few years ago where the cops claimed "self defence" and media dubbed "wild foreigner attacks valiant hk police".

# ? Jan 23, 2021 11:39

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Jettison the engines from the transport aircraft, now your paratroopers are jumping from a plane in distress and can't be shot at. Bing bong so simple.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 13:28

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Alternatively
:tinfoil:

BIG HEADLINE posted:

"Mr. President, since we're transitioning to a new rifle cartridge, I think it behooves me to let you know just how much we could recoup by liquidating/selling our stocks of 5.56 to the general population. If you'd just look at these figures and projections... if only we had a way to boost demand"

"Now, time to write this new Assault Weapons Ban..."

# ? Jan 23, 2021 19:44

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

a lightweight m4-style rifle with a good 16/20� barrel and medium optic/LPVO is already astonishingly effective, i�d be really curious to see what they deem a worthwhile improvement.

With a moderate brake it�s got negligible recoil, it�s accurate to over half a click, weighs loving nothing and neither does the ammo, and if you�re feeding it m995 or dm31 you�ll zip through most body armor too.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 23, 2021

# ? Jan 23, 2021 19:54

evil_bunnY: Apr 2, 2003

# ? Jan 23, 2021 20:02

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

evil_bunnY posted:

a lightweight m4-style rifle with a good 16/20� barrel and medium optic/LPVO is already astonishingly effective, i�d be really curious to see what they deem a worthwhile improvement.

Scroll through the board of directors at whatever company has the capacity to pick up the first big contract.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 20:41

ghosthorse: Dec 15, 2011; ...you forget so easily...

bulletsponge13 posted:

A friend said his Grandad during WW2 was on sentry duty, and felt a very gentle touch on his helmet, then a whispered "OK!". The story goes that the Gurkha felt helmet brims- and knife the dudes wearing the German ones.

I've always meant to type up some of my grandfather's old war stories for this thread because he joined the Canadian military halfway through WW2 and didn't leave it until 40 years later. He twice got demoted for punching a superior so in every story he was clearly the idiot.

Anyways, he used to be in charge of training British special forces during their wilderness/survival courses in Canada and because of that he went with them on joint operations a bunch of times. The story he would always tell us was one time being on patrol/guard duty alone around their little camp in some jungle somewhere and falling asleep. He woke up when he felt something on his boot and looked down to see a hand. Then the smiling face of a man as he pulled himself out of the bushes and mud and introduced himself. Supposedly the Gurkhas were sent to meet up on the mission and he was feeling my grandfather's boot in the dark to see how he tied it and recognized that he was a commonwealth soldier and so didn't kill him. He told my grandfather all of this politely while his entire unit revealed themselves from the bushes all around their camp. Not sure if the whole thing was all just old war story exaggeration but he did say that he didn't sleep the rest of that mission.

# ? Jan 23, 2021 22:39

bulletsponge13: Apr 28, 2010

While I'm sure many of the anecdotes are based in some mythology, there are more than enough verified accounts to dismiss it all as legend.

There was a doc I found on YouTube- an older one that showed a bit of the selection process.
E- https://youtu.be/iL5tCVwKZFw. Not saying it is 100% accurate or anything.
My favorite has been hearing multiple Officers complain "the bastards can run forever".

# ? Jan 24, 2021 00:31

MRC48B: Apr 2, 2012

Ghurkas are good troops because the selection skims the top 1 percent of all military age males in the country.

Its a nasty form of Imperialism, that is only acceptable because the UK doesn't throw them directly in the meatgrinder, as much, anymore.

That said, if I had the pick of a unit to save my rear end from *hypothetical bad guys*, a Ghurka regiment would be high on the list.

# ? Jan 24, 2021 05:47