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I don't mind your plan other than I would not buy a trailer and would instead choose to rent a truck 3x a year - unless there's some specific reason this is nonviable. This opens up your Crosstrek and Sportwagen/Alltrack ideas again. However, the Crosstrek is not large and I would not prefer it for camping, trying to sleep in, etc. The Outback is substantially bigger. Just as a note, you are looking up EU ratings for the Volvo. It's the same car underneath as far as I'm aware, it's just that OEMs in the US are much more conservative about tow ratings. If you sell a wagon in the EU and it can't tow 2000 kg, no self respecting dutch man will buy it and drive 65 km/h with extended wing mirrors towing a 3000kg caravan all over Europe, so therefore all Euro cars have high tow ratings. The Golf Sportwagen is rated for like 1600kg depending on the engine in Europe so again if you wanna risk it that's an option. What's your AWD use case? I'm not sure I would weight it that highly. Since you're in CA, the primary advantage I see is not having to chain up in the winter in the mountains. That matters, but the actual AWD system doesn't matter at all for that purpose. If you're trying to sneak up some truly rough roads, and this isn't a commuter vehicle, you might consider a more substantial SUV, but if that's not you I don't think AWD matters too much (at least not compared to ground clearance). You get better towing that way, too.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:35
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I'm just impressed that you somehow found the spec page for Volvo Oman.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:44
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Hmm. We initially looked at AWD because of towing: FWD vehicles aren't super great for towing, right? Because of the tongue weight? But maybe that's an elderly idea passed down from my stepdad's generation that I should ignore. The trailer is kind of a compromise because nobody makes light trucks anymore and we don't really want to own and operate even the smaller end of pickups sold over the last decade. Plus, we'd like to have comfortable seating for four, and we'd like to be able to have two of us lie down in the back - we're not big people, but our Protege5 doesn't have layflat seats and is just barely too short for me to be comfortable lying down in the rear. My wife is a ceramic artist and I've gotten into woodworking, and the trailer will give me the ability to go get bigger pieces of wood, and her to do things like bring back a ton (an actual ton) of poo poo from a residency. But as you say, we could just rent a pickup for the few times a year we "need" one. We own a home and have a lot of deferred projects that I would like to be able to improvisationally work on without having to set up a rental, though, and I figure a used trailer is gonna be under $2k, easier to stow off the street, and satisfy that ability to just decide on saturday it's time to trim the trees and haul all the yard waste, etc. It's not a plan I'm 100% married to though. Per the Volvo trailer capcity you're right! I just looked up the online PDF user's manual for a 2015 V60 and it says quote:Without brakes: 1650 lbs The much higher maintenance costs is concerning though. Does that also apply to the V60's cousin, the XC60? Throatwarbler posted:I'm just impressed that you somehow found the spec page for Volvo Oman.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:49
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Towing capacity in europe is also higher since you're limited to 80 km/h (50 MPH) when towing a trailer, whereas here in 'murica we expect to be able to tow at 75 MPH. So that's why you can tow 2x the weight in europe with the same car - you don't need the same amount of speed / braking capacity as you would in the US.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:57
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Leperflesh posted:We initially looked at AWD because of towing: FWD vehicles aren't super great for towing, right? Because of the tongue weight? But maybe that's an elderly idea passed down from my stepdad's generation that I should ignore. If there's any truth left to it, it's got to be for Honda (and probably other companies) derating FWD versions for whatever reason. A FWD Ridgeline/Pilot is only rated to 3500lb, an AWD version of the same vehicle is rated to 5000lb. At any rate - *if* you can find a vehicle you actually like that checks all the right boxes for your towing needs as well, there's no reason not to go that route - and probably just rent a trailer when you need one. But depending on what you're doing (in particular, miles driven) renting a truck isn't that much more expensive, and you might not want to compromise on things you're doing every day versus things you only want to do a few times a year. As a way-out-in-left-field option, a fullsize GM SUV (Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade) should give you all the room you ever want and all the towing capacity you could ever need, at the costs of dismal fuel mileage and not going to have any of the driver-assists at the price point you're looking at. They will, of course, be huge, and while driving any of the Suburban-based models you'll also feel like you're piloting an aircraft carrier. Which has its pros and cons.
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Mar 4, 2021 01:09
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In the same vein - Lexus GX maybe? Not sure how much GX you can buy for 12 grand, but they're very comfortable, extremely capable, reliable, and will tow. The downside is they get like 16 mpg and might be out of your price range. Third gen Pathfinder might be a good option. The interior is pretty dire (tbf you're paying 12 grand for a car with specific capabilities that you want to be reliable - you kinda have to cut corners somewhere), they're not fuel efficient, but they're pretty reliable, spacious, and have a good tow rating. Have you owned a trailer before? I think they're kind of a pain in the rear end to use. I also would be fairly disinclined to tow a literal ton behind an Outback but I recognize this is an artifact of my Manly Man Upbringing where we only towed poo poo with pickup trucks. There are two XC60s technically, there's the XC60, which is an SUV and no more reliable, and the V60XC, which is a V60 with a lift kit and some black plastic. Another super comedy option: go full money moustache moron and get a minivan and a trailer
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Mar 4, 2021 01:51
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We have something of an aversion to full-size SUVs, just viscerally have always hated them, but I will definitely take a look at the other stuff you guys suggested. I forgot and have been reminded another reason for the tow capacity is my wife is interested in a pop-up or light camper, perhaps, and we'd like to have that as an option. Nothing too huge or heavy. I suggested we could rent one to try it out before buying and she liked that idea. $12k is not the limit, we are doing searches on cars up to $16k and that's without financing anything, we have the spare cash up to maybe 18 and then above that we'd likely want to finance in order to avoid overly depleting the cash reserves we maintain for the house, emergencies, etc.; but I've never spent over $16k for a car in my life and it feels really unnecessary to do that especially for what will be our second, fun vehicle rather than something we "need." It's a drat shame about the poor volvo reliability because I do like the look, safety, and luxury they seem to be offering, but I'm guessing it's that unreliability that is pushing prices for them down to sub-$20k on cars with less than 100k miles that are only 5 years old. e. I should probably also at least consider insurance. We're in a california suburban zipcode so that racks the price up, but we also are safe drivers with no at-faults in forever, both college grads, etc. so Amica seems pretty inexpensive for us on our current cars. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Another super comedy option: go full money moustache moron and get a minivan and a trailer I mean, our friends have a honda element which they use to pull a bike trailer and they love it. The hose-out interior, they camp and sleep in it, etc. I do not like how it looks and to be honest at age 46 I have decided I don't have to drive an ugly car if I don't want to, but that's really the only good reason to rule it out. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Mar 4, 2021 |
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Mar 4, 2021 02:03
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Get the best Ford Raptor you can afford.
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Mar 4, 2021 02:45
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lol it starts at $53k new, what is wrong with people e don't answer that, I already know
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Mar 4, 2021 06:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:In the same vein - Lexus GX maybe? Not sure how much GX you can buy for 12 grand, but they're very comfortable, extremely capable, reliable, and will tow. Cheapest Lexus GX (either model) on autotrader is $26k so that sounds like a non starter
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Mar 4, 2021 07:41
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Bay area craigo is fairly rife with GX 470 opportunities (not sure where you are in CA, I just took a stab). FBM is also popular these days in this bracket. Since you'd be looking at a mid-00s GX, they are a little too old for common posting on the major late-model used car sites.
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Mar 4, 2021 14:15
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Leperflesh posted:Cheapest Lexus GX (either model) on autotrader is $26k so that sounds like a non starter Yeah look on CL and don't be afraid of high mileage those trucks go on forever. A good cheat for Lexus vehicles is to register on lexusdrivers.com and you can enter any Lexus VIN to get it's maintenance history. Most of these cars have been maintained at Lexus dealers, so as long as you find one with a good up to date maintenance history you're fine even if it has over 200k miles on it. Not sure where you live, but traveling to the south to get one is not a bad idea https://spacecoast.craigslist.org/cto/d/melbourne-08-lexus-gx-470/7273174166.html
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Mar 4, 2021 15:36
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I'm pretty sure pop up campers are under 1500 lbs and can be towed by anything
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Mar 4, 2021 17:18
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Since it sounds like you're not going to be putting a lot of miles on, I'd second the GX470 if you can skip the driver assistance stuff. Terrible gas mileage and requires premium, but very reliable and nice to drive for a truck-ish thing. One thing though; the back doesn't work for me laying down and would require some kind of sleeping platform due to the kinda inefficient way the seats fold.
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Mar 4, 2021 17:35
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Nitrox posted:I'm pretty sure pop up campers are under 1500 lbs and can be towed by anything 1500 lbs until you load it and the car full of poo poo and people to camping
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Mar 4, 2021 18:44
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The 1500 pounds of Americans counts towards the vehicle payload not its tow capacity.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:04
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bird with big dick posted:The 1500 pounds of Americans counts towards the vehicle payload not its tow capacity. But what if I'm towing my 400 lb cousin behind me?
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Mar 4, 2021 19:07
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bird with big dick posted:The 1500 pounds of Americans counts towards the vehicle payload not its tow capacity. A lot of that payload ends up getting stuffed in/on the trailer. Then add everything else and I hope you have a stout and well maintained transmission in your FWD econobox. Hell I had a 4.0 Cherokee towing a small pop up and that thing would get sluggish and overheat going up hills, fully loaded for a weekend camping trip. I gave up after it did that a few times.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:52
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Yeah we do want to lie down in the back, we are strongly preferring vechiles not more than 7ish or so years old, and we do want at least 1500lbs tow capacity. My wife and I are only 290lbs put together but we might bring guests, definitely bring other gear, and want to occasionally haul things like: multiple logs of wet freshly felled oak from my in-law's property. I would prefer not to tow at or near the safe limit of a vehicle. We are indeed in the SF bay area. Anyway I don't want to monopolize the thread. I do appreciate the suggestions, genuinely, and we'll take a look at them. It does seem like an outback remains the leading contender, though.
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Mar 4, 2021 20:09
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I would definitely prefer the GX for your use case even if it's older. It's a Toyota LC Prado with some fancy poo poo, it'll run forever.
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Mar 4, 2021 23:53
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah we do want to lie down in the back, we are strongly preferring vechiles not more than 7ish or so years old, and we do want at least 1500lbs tow capacity. My wife and I are only 290lbs put together but we might bring guests, definitely bring other gear, and want to occasionally haul things like: multiple logs of wet freshly felled oak from my in-law's property. I would prefer not to tow at or near the safe limit of a vehicle. Since you are looking at Volvos anyway why not XC70? Has AWD, decent towing at least here in Europe (up to 2000 kg) and has room in the back.
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Mar 5, 2021 08:03
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Do you get the Mitsubishi L200 in the States? I've often had small pickups for work in military training areas in the UK, normally Ford Rangers but also L200s or an occasional Hilux. Out of those the L200s have been better off road and they are pretty cheap from what I can tell. No reliability issues with any of them, but only had them a few weeks each.
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Mar 5, 2021 13:04
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Good Mitsubishis are not sold in the US. E: Double Cab Barbarian Plus is a hl of a name for a trim level 
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Mar 5, 2021 17:43
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Bouillon Rube posted:Good Mitsubishis are not sold in the US. I literally have no idea what Mitsubishi actually sells here. The eclipse suv thing and then the outlander? Do they still sell that miserable tiny 2 door car that I want to call the Colt even though I’m pretty sure that’s not its name? My credit score is probably too high to even get on the lot to look at them.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:29
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Eclipse. And you're right, Mitsu USA is a subprime lender that happens to sell cars.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:32
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fknlo posted:I literally have no idea what Mitsubishi actually sells here. The eclipse suv thing and then the outlander? Do they still sell that miserable tiny 2 door car that I want to call the Colt even though I’m pretty sure that’s not its name? My credit score is probably too high to even get on the lot to look at them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aCsNs3eYTE
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Mar 5, 2021 20:35
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bad_fmr posted:Since you are looking at Volvos anyway why not XC70? Has AWD, decent towing at least here in Europe (up to 2000 kg) and has room in the back. Yup, it was suggested earlier I think, or I found it myself, but it seems to have exactly the same reliability/maintenance cost issues as the wagon. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I would definitely prefer the GX for your use case even if it's older. It's a Toyota LC Prado with some fancy poo poo, it'll run forever. Yeah I appreciate that and if it were just me, I'd be OK with an older car, but wife want something newer. Her mom got late model mazda 6 with all the fancy driver assist lane warning backup camera bells and whistles and she's in love with that stuff. I don't think I can talk her into spending the same amount of money on a car ten years older that lacks that tech. Maybe? I'm definitely floating the idea at least, maybe if I can get us a test drive in one she might change her mind? Right now though I think there's an 80% chance we're getting an outback, though.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:55
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Put it this way, once my wife test drove a Lexus that was it, my hopes of her just getting a drat Prius were over.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:57
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Put it this way, once my wife test drove a Lexus that was it, my hopes of her just getting a drat Prius were over. Reminds me of this quote “A luxury, once enjoyed, becomes a necessity.” ― C Northcote Parkinson I'm totally guilty of it as well, as long as I can afford it, I want the bells and whistles.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:05
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Well at the time she was looking at 10+ year old used Mercs and BMW's and I said hell no, if you wanna go the used luxury car route it's gonna be a Lexus and I'm putting my foot down on that one  She's on her second LS now and I'm trying to warm her up to the idea of getting an EV for her next car since she spends almost $200 a month on gas because of her long commute. She really likes the new Mach E so that's a start.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:34
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Motronic posted:Eclipse. A lot of them where I live and I don’t think they have ever made a good car.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:18
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Leperflesh posted:Yup, it was suggested earlier I think, or I found it myself, but it seems to have exactly the same reliability/maintenance cost issues as the wagon. that tech is nice and if your wife wants it you should probably get it. for a car that sees only occasional duty i think it's way less of a necessity than for a commuter.
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Mar 5, 2021 23:42
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Put it this way, once my wife test drove a Lexus that was it, my hopes of her just getting a drat Prius were over. I couldn’t convince my wife on a Lexus for our most recent car because she thinks the image is too old. Somehow a 4Runner/Land cruiser are ok though.
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Mar 6, 2021 13:37
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Residency Evil posted:I couldn’t convince my wife on a Lexus for our most recent car because she thinks the image is too old. Somehow a 4Runner/Land cruiser are ok though. I would also prefer if we got the LC Prado with a Toyota badge rather than the GX. I'm a self
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Mar 6, 2021 16:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I would also prefer if we got the LC Prado with a Toyota badge rather than the GX. Same. Our current garage is all German, but the more I live with the hilariously overpriced oil changes, the more I begin to fantasize about the insane TCO and reliability that Toyota is famous for. Our next car is almost certainly going to be a 4Runner. Lexus is also great though: the interior of the LC500 and LSes I've sat in has been wonderful.
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Mar 6, 2021 18:09
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For me personally I don't really care for the luxury element all that much because I'm more of a minimalist, but since I'm responsible for our families vehicles you can bet your rear end I'm gonna make it as easy as possible on myself so Lexus it is if the wife wants a used luxury vehicle. It's too bad because I really like BMWs but I'm just not going to deal with the the issues that come with used luxury German cars. New is a different story, if she ends up wanting a new BMW with a warranty that's fine with me but as soon as that warranty is up guess whats happening
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Mar 6, 2021 18:30
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Leased German cars, baby.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:18
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Leasing is great if you don't have an hour commute to work and back. Way too many miles for a lease.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:23
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Leasing is great for me. It provides a lot of low mile german cars in the secondary market, where I buy them.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:57
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Leasing is great if you don't have an hour commute to work and back. Way too many miles for a lease. Yup. Same.
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Mar 6, 2021 22:22
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