Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

Elviscat posted:

I'd imagine the baseline for high crew: passenger ratio planes starts at 1:1 considering most fighters have a 2 seat variant that they often use to convey members of the press &c.

A number of the P-38's recon variant were converted as VIP transports post-war. Single pilot in the cockpit, with a single passenger where the nose cameras used to be. That is very much an outlier though.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 05:57

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 06:21

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

Elviscat posted:

I'd imagine the baseline for high crew: passenger ratio planes starts at 1:1 considering most fighters have a 2 seat variant that they often use to convey members of the press &c.

That's not really using it as a transportation method, though, it's more of a PR thing. By that standard an AWACS would have like a 20:1 ratio by letting a reporter fly on board.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:03

slidebite: Nov 6, 2005; Good egg

Not sure if I posted this before or not, but a Jumo powered Me262 firing up with the 2 stroke "apu" doing its job.

https://youtu.be/8Azxzu1sqCU?t=63

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:05

HookedOnChthonics: Dec 5, 2015; Profoundly dull

madeintaipei posted:

A number of the P-38's recon variant were converted as VIP transports post-war. Single pilot in the cockpit, with a single passenger where the nose cameras used to be. That is very much an outlier though.

This was very much a 'during' thing; as well as bomber-leader P-38s with a forward bombardier position, leading formations of light bombers or other P-38s--i think these are also the origin of top-tier aviation terminology 'droop snoot' that later got upcycled for variable noses on pointy jets

HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Mar 15, 2021

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:19

Ardeem: Sep 16, 2010; There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

HookedOnChthonics posted:

This was very much a 'during' thing; as well as bomber-leader P-38s with a forward bombardier position, leading formations of light bombers or other P-38s--i think these are also the origin of top-tier aviation terminology 'droop snoot' that later got upcycled for variable noses on pointy jets

The brilliant plan that somebody, in this swarm of 100+ fighter bombers should have a bomb sight, but nothing more than his voice over the radio to tell the rest when and where the bombs should go.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:30

HookedOnChthonics: Dec 5, 2015; Profoundly dull

I think the typical practice was to watch for the lead to pickle rather than a verbal command

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:38

Elviscat: Jan 1, 2008; Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

I got distracted looking stuff up, and learned that the A-10 has more airframes in service than the F-35, F-22, or F-15 (if you count each variant separately).

Lol.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:59

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

azflyboy posted:

while the pilot flying concentrates on ~~making sure the airplane is doing what it's supposed to.~~ eating, reading books, and listening to podcasts

# ? Mar 15, 2021 06:59

cursedshitbox: May 20, 2012; Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.; Fun Shoe

Elviscat posted:

I got distracted looking stuff up, and learned that the A-10 has more airframes in service than the F-35, F-22, or F-15 (if you count each variant separately).

Lol.

If you can't break it, don't throw it out.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 07:06

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012; ERM... Actually I have stellar scores on the surveys, and every year students tell me that my classes are the best ones they’ve ever taken.

cursedshitbox posted:

If you can't break it, don't throw it out.

They have quite a few of them at the boneyard.

I bet you could just fuel them up, recharge the batteries, and fly them right out of there. Even the ones on the right.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 07:15

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

Sagebrush posted:

They have quite a few of them at the boneyard.

I bet you could just fuel them up, recharge the batteries, and fly them right out of there. Even the ones on the right.

Once. JATOs and a prayer.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 08:36

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

HookedOnChthonics posted:

This was very much a 'during' thing; as well as bomber-leader P-38s with a forward bombardier position, leading formations of light bombers or other P-38s--i think these are also the origin of top-tier aviation terminology 'droop snoot' that later got upcycled for variable noses on pointy jets

Which would you rather be, a B-17 ball turret gunner or a P-38 bombardier?

# ? Mar 15, 2021 09:07

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

MrYenko posted:

Not saying the SR-71 isn�t complex to operate, but having the Pilot Not Flying or whatever operate the radios is totally normal on most aircraft. Hell, aircraft used to have a crew member that did nothing but operate the radios.

Around the time the SR-71 started flying some radio operators were still expected to hunt around for faint Morse code tones in the ether if needed.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 13:41

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

vessbot posted:

Not the record holder for number of crew, but probably the record holder for ratio of crew to passengers was the Lancastrian, a postwar airliner conversion of the Lancaster. Namely, 5 crew (4 flight and 1 cabin) to 9 passengers.

Here comes rigid airships to photobomb all the airplanes :getin:

Graf Zeppelin had 36 crew and 24 passengers, a 3/2 ratio

Hindenburg was a bit better. First flight of its single season had 56 crew and 50 passengers. Before its last flight, (first of the 1937 season) it had its passenger capacity expanded to 70, so 4/5 assuming the same crew.

R100 had a 100 passenger capacity and 37 crew, so it was downright airplane-like in its crew to passenger ratio

I was hoping the Boeing 314 clipper would have similar ratios, but nope: 13 crew, 36 passengers for sleeping

# ? Mar 15, 2021 14:17

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; Can't post for 4 hours!

I have some idea, but I know you know offhand, so I�ll just ask:

What were all those crewmembers doing?

# ? Mar 15, 2021 14:26

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Platystemon posted:

I have some idea, but I know you know offhand, so I�ll just ask:

What were all those crewmembers doing?

On the airships I think a lot of them were catering to the customers. They were long flights for very wealthy people, chefs and stewards and etc...

I watched a video for an 83 meter yacht on youtube the other day. It has capacity for 30 crew for 4 state rooms (8 passengers?). The engine room and bridge were state of the art digital deals so you can probably operate the vessel safely with like 4 people.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 15:30

BalloonFish: Jun 30, 2013; Fun Shoe

Murgos posted:

On the airships I think a lot of them were catering to the customers. They were long flights for very wealthy people, chefs and stewards and etc...

And the airship flights were plenty long enough to need crew on a watch system, so you'd need bridge officer, helmsman, ballast/elevator-man, radio operator, engineer, mechanic, at least a couple of riggers, plus the 'hotel staff'...times two.

Plus the ones like the captain, chief engineer and purser who wouldn't stand watches but were on call all the time.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 15:41

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

From airships.net,on the Hindenburg:

quote:

The Flight Crew

The ship was flown by a minimum flight crew of 39 officers and men (not including passenger service personnel such as cooks and stewards) under the command of the captain:

Captain
3 Watch Officers
3 Navigators
3 Ruddermen (helmsmen)
3 Elevatormen
Chief Rigger (Sailmaker)
3 Riggers (Sailmakers)
Chief Radio Officer
3 Assistant Radio Operators
Chief Engineer
3 Engineers
12 Machinists/Mechanics (assigned to engine cars)
Chief Electrician
2 Assistant Electricians

In addition to the flight crew, the ship�s passengers were served by a Chief Steward, a Chief Cook, and 10-12 stewards and assistant cooks. Hindenburg also began carrying a doctor in 1937.

Crew Watches

The ship�s personnel stood watches, as aboard a surface vessel. The watch officers, radio officers, engineering officers, and most other personnel stood a 4 hour watch, then had 4 hours of rest, and then spent 4 hours on standby watch (Pikett-Wache). Certain crew members stood 2 hour watches during the day and 3 hour watches at night, when conditions were generally calmer; these included the rudder men and elevator men, whose jobs were both mentally taxing and physically exhausting; the mechanics, who dealt with the noise and vibration of the engine cars; and the riggers, who prowled the ship inspecting and repairing gas cells, covering fabric, and other structural elements.

Crew members were assigned secondary duties during their standby watch; for example, the Radio Officer was responsible for handling the mail and making lists of passengers, the 1st rudder man was responsible for maintenance of the crew�s living and sleeping quarters , etc.

As on a surface vessel, the commanding officer stood no watch, but was of course always available.

Organization and Coordination of the Flight Crew

The flight crew was divided into two divisions; the navigation department (similar to the deck department on a steamship), who worked in and around the control car, and who were responsible for flying and navigating the ship (this group included the captain, watch officers, elevatormen, ruddermen, and radio operators), and the engineering department, who worked in the hull and engine cars of the ship, and who were responsible for the gas cells, power plant, fuel and ballast supply, and the structure of the ship (this group included the engineers, mechanics, electricians, and riggers). [Passenger services were provided by the stewards, headed by Chief Steward Heinrich Kubis, and the cooks, headed by Chief Cook Xaver Maier.]

There was a distinct division between the two departments, who worked more or less autonomously under their respective chiefs, with surprisingly sparse communication about operational matters. In general, the captain and watch officers confined their attention to matters of navigation and flight control, and had confidence that the engineering department would keep the rest of the ship in excellent operating condition without much direct oversight. For example, one U.S. Navy observer noticed that when an engine was stopped during flight, the watch officers seldom asked the engineering officer to explain the cause of the stoppage, but were content simply with the engineer�s estimate of how long the engine would be out of service.

Crew responsibilities sometimes varied from the official job descriptions, however, in recognition of the backgrounds and specialties of particular individuals. For example, Captain Albert Sammt, who served as a Watch Officer, had years of experience with the construction and maintenance of gas cells and fabric covering, and so Chief Rigger Ludwig Knorr, in the engineering department, reported to Captain Sammt, in the navigation department. (Sammt and Knorr, along with Knut Eckener and Hans Ladwig, were the riggers who repaired the torn fin covering during Graf Zeppelin�s first flight to America.)

The Zeppelin Culture of Responsibility and Independence

There was, in general, a great deal of independence, autonomy, and discretion entrusted to individual members of the Hindenburg�s crew. For example, watch officers had the authority to valve gas, drop ballast, change the ship�s assigned altitude, and even alter course without the direct involvement of the captain. Of course, Hindenburg�s senior officers all had decades of service in zeppelins, and watch officers were generally qualified as airship captains themselves. Similarly, elevatormen were usually highly experienced, and were given wide discretion in the performance of their duties, as were ruddermen.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 16:17

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Given that Zeppelins were luxury travel that took several days how were they in a storm? I am sure they wen't out of their way to avoid them but travelling long distances (sometimes over open water) you are going to bang into some doozies. Given the state of weather prediction in the early 20th century I have to imagine this happened fairly frequently.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 16:33

HookedOnChthonics: Dec 5, 2015; Profoundly dull

Murgos posted:

Given that Zeppelins were luxury travel that took several days how were they in a storm? I am sure they wen't out of their way to avoid them but travelling long distances (sometimes over open water) you are going to bang into some doozies. Given the state of weather prediction in the early 20th century I have to imagine this happened fairly frequently.

wikipedia posted:

... landed near Echterdingen after 12 hours to repair an engine. Destroyed when strong winds broke its mooring cables.[2] ...

... Torn from moorings during a storm and wrecked near Weilburg on 25 March 1910.[4] ...

... Damaged beyond repair after crashing during a thunderstorm over the Teutoburg Forest on 28 June 1910[6] ...

... Caught by a strong crosswind while being walked out of its hangar and damaged beyond repair on 16 May 1911[7] ...

... the Schwaben caught fire after a strong gust tore it from its moorings near D�sseldorf, injuring some of the ground handling party.[10...

... brought down into the North Sea during a thunderstorm on 9 September 1913, drowning 14 crew members....

... Forced landing in Blavandshuk on 17 February 1915 during a storm; 11 crew interned, with four members lost when the airship subsequently blew out to sea.[24]...

... enemy fire forced in down near Aeltre (Belgium), then destroyed by a storm. ...

... Destroyed in a thunderstorm on 3 September 1915 near Cuxhaven killing 19 crew members.[27]...

... broke loose in a storm and blown out to sea and was never seen again. ...

... Damaged beyond repair by heavy wind on 8 October 1917. ...

... Exploded off the coast of Sicily during a thunderstorm on 23 December 1923 following a lightning strike, killing all aboard.[60]...

nope

HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 15, 2021

# ? Mar 15, 2021 17:07

BalloonFish: Jun 30, 2013; Fun Shoe

Murgos posted:

Given that Zeppelins were luxury travel that took several days how were they in a storm? I am sure they wen't out of their way to avoid them but travelling long distances (sometimes over open water) you are going to bang into some doozies. Given the state of weather prediction in the early 20th century I have to imagine this happened fairly frequently.

They were very vulnerable to damage in high winds and up/down draughts, and the additional weight of rainwater on the envelop skin (and then the reduction in that weight when it ran or dried off) required careful management of the ballast. Zeppelins/large rigid airships were generally fast enough to get out of the way of incoming weather patterns provided they had enough warning, and when operating across the Atlantic with good weather forecasting before departure and regular updates from both land stations and ships along the way, they could generally avoid rough weather.

If they didn't it could go very wrong. The Graf Zeppelin ran into storm while crossing the Pacific on her round-the-world trip and damaged some of her tail surfaces and lost some envelope skin. Graf also sustained storm damage to one of the engine gondolas on the 1930 Pan-American flight, and shortly after that was repaired the envelope received more damage in a hailstorm. The Graf was generally considered too small and too slow for the North Atlantic route, which was more prone to swift west-moving weather patterns, hence why she was kept on the service to South America and why the Hindenburg and Graf Zeppelin , which were twice the volume of the older ship, had more reserve lift and had the fuel capacity to travel at higher speeds for longer distances.

The rest of airship history is littered with weather-related losses - Shenandoah was torn apart by an updraught, Akron and Macon were both lost in storms (although design flaws were a contributing factor). The R101 was an accident waiting to happen, but it was bad weather which made the crash happen when it did. The theory that the Hindenburg disaster happened because one of the gas cells was punctured by a snapped rigging wire which broke under stress due to excessive maneouvering in rough weather has quite a few supporters, including the manager of the Zeppelin company.

Big airships were even more vulnerable to being damaged by wind and weather on the ground, but that's a different issue.

# ? Mar 15, 2021 17:10

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

E/A/F-15EX, anyone?

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-air-force-looks-at-cognitive-electronic-warfare-for-f-15/142907.article

# ? Mar 16, 2021 06:56

Wombot: Sep 11, 2001

Platystemon posted:

I have some idea, but I know you know offhand, so I’ll just ask:

What were all those crewmembers doing?

Moving from airships to flying boats, the Pan Am Clippers would have a Captain, First, Second, and Third Officers, a Navigator, a Radioman, a couple of Flight Engineers, and then Stewards who mostly dealt with the passengers. You'd also frequently have additional duplicate crew who were onboard to train or be trained, or were relocating.

Even "short" flights, like San Francisco to Honolulu, would take 8+ hours, and I'd guess the environment of an unpressurized cabin was even more draining than a modern cockpit. So you need plenty of redundancy for shifts and crew rest.

Fun fact, the B314A was longer than a 737-600, at 106'.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 08:50

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

Wombot posted:

Moving from airships to flying boats, the Pan Am Clippers would have a Captain, First, Second, and Third Officers, a Navigator, a Radioman, a couple of Flight Engineers, and then Stewards who mostly dealt with the passengers. You'd also frequently have additional duplicate crew who were onboard to train or be trained, or were relocating.

Even "short" flights, like San Francisco to Honolulu, would take 8+ hours, and I'd guess the environment of an unpressurized cabin was even more draining than a modern cockpit. So you need plenty of redundancy for shifts and crew rest.

Fun fact, the B314A was longer than a 737-600, at 106'.

Man I really would like to go back in time to airship travel. 8 hours isn't too bad, considering all the fuckery we go through in a day experiencing planestations as it is.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 10:26

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; Can't post for 4 hours!

Airships couldn�t do it in eight hours. That�s planes, and it�s planes cruising at a minimum of three hundred miles per hour.

quote:

In 1940, Pan Am's schedule San Francisco to Honolulu was 19 hours.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 10:32

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

Airships: Combining the luxury of a cruise ship with the speed of a slightly faster ship

# ? Mar 16, 2021 10:34

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

Platystemon posted:

Airships couldn�t do it in eight hours. That�s planes, and it�s planes cruising at a minimum of three hundred miles per hour.

Ah read it completely wrong! A part of me knew that it took me 8 hours in the air from Brisbane but didn't remember it's literally in the middle of the Pacific. Actually 19 hours would be kinda neat too, would see a sunrise/sunset from the air.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 11:11

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; Can't post for 4 hours!

Humphreys posted:

Ah read it completely wrong! A part of me knew that it took me 8 hours in the air from Brisbane but didn't remember it's literally in the middle of the Pacific. Actually 19 hours would be kinda neat too, would see a sunrise/sunset from the air.

Do it twice!

Level of difficulty: you�re flying over enemy territory in an unarmed and unescorted plane loaded absolutely to the gills with fuel. The plane leaves the water overloaded by four tons, or about one third. You will be airborne for hopefully twenty‐seven to thirty‐two hours. If either of the Twin Wasp engines fails within the first ten hours, you will rejoin the water.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 11:39

Humphreys: Jan 26, 2013; We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule

Platystemon posted:

Do it twice!

Level of difficulty: you�re flying over enemy territory in an unarmed and unescorted plane loaded absolutely to the gills with fuel. The plane leaves the water overloaded by four tons, or about one third. You will be airborne for hopefully twenty‐seven to thirty‐two hours. If either of the Twin Wasp engines fails within the first ten hours, you will rejoin the water.

That made me think if my potential inlaws (at some stage in my past) were some how involved as they were flying about in NT at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connellan_Airways

And only now through wikipedia did I learn my old dad-inlaw lost his brother as a victim of a suicide crash from an ex-employee.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 12:25

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Xakura posted:

Airships: Combining the luxury of a cruise ship with the speed of a slightly faster ship

With none of the centuries of knowledge of safe design and construction or how to manage inclement weather. So many ships survive severe weather that even by the early 1900's it was exceptional when they didn't.

Going by the weather related destruction posted previously on the relatively small airship fleet and then trying to imagine what the havoc would be if their numbers approximated the commercial freight and passenger fleets of the time leaves me thinking that it was a really bad mode of transportation.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 14:06

BalloonFish: Jun 30, 2013; Fun Shoe

Platystemon posted:

Airships couldn�t do it in eight hours. That�s planes, and it�s planes cruising at a minimum of three hundred miles per hour.

How about some Imperial Airways timetables from 1933?

Overland route to India:

(All times local, flight leg durations from departure to arrival)

Saturday: (aircraft is a Handley Page HP.45)
Leave Croydon: 0830
Arrive Paris (LBG): 1045 (leg: 2hr 15m)
Arrive Basle: 1345 (leg: 2hr 45m)

==Overnight train to Genoa==

Sunday: (aircraft changed to a Short Kent flying boat)

Leave Genoa: 0645
Arrive Naples: 1130 (leg: 4hr 45m)
Arrive Corfu: 1745 (leg: 4hr 15m)

==Overnight stay in Corfu==

Monday:
Depart Corfu: 0600
Arrive Athens: 0900 (leg: 3hr)
[Fuel and lunch stop at Crete - passengers join/alight "if conditions permit and inducement offers"] (leg: 3hr 20m)
Arrive Alexandria: 1630 (leg: 3hr 25m)

==Train to Cairo, overnight in hotel==

Tuesday: (aircraft changed to a Handley Page HP.42)
Depart Cairo: 0645
Arrive Gaza: 0920 (leg: 2hr 35m)
Arrive Rutbah Wells: 1430 (leg: 4hr 25m)
Arrive Baghdad: 1800 (leg: 3hr 30m)

==Overnight stay in Baghdad==

Wednesday:
Depart Baghdad: 0300
Arrive Basra: 0620 (leg: 3hr 20m)
Arrive Bushire: 1010 (leg: 3hr 50m)
Arrive Lingeh: 1520 (leg: 5hr 10m)
Arrive Jask: 1830 (leg: 3hr 10m)

==Overnight stay in Jask==

Thursday:
Depart Jask: 0600
Arrive Gwadar: 1100 (leg: 5hr)
Arrive Karachi: 1535 (leg: 3hr 35m)

==Overnight stay in Karachi==

Friday:

Depart Karachi: 0630
Arrive Jodhpur: 1030 (leg: 4hr)
Arrive Delhi: 1440 (leg: 4hr 10m)

Aicraft departs for westbound service on Wednesday.

Total distance: 4340 nautical miles
Total time of journey: 145 hours, 40 minutes (av speed: 28.9 knts)
Total time in air: 66 hours 30 minutes (av speed: 65.5 knts)

BalloonFish fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Mar 16, 2021

# ? Mar 16, 2021 14:10

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

even in the relative comfort and quiet of modern lie flat business class each hour on a plane after roughly hour 8 is exponentially more annoying, and after hour 12 is excruciating. can't imagine doing it flying at low altitude through all the storms with four twin cyclones rattling away.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 14:21

Zero One: Dec 30, 2004; HAIL TO THE VICTORS!

Content warning. Three people died now including a boy in the SUV.

https://twitter.com/gdnonline/status/1371715586150035456?s=21

It may have had mechanical issues and clipped a power line. The airport is right there.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 15:31

wolrah: May 8, 2006; what?

Cojawfee posted:

I wouldn't want to fly the SR-71. It sounds too stressful.

I just want to be the guy in the back who gets to make the speed check call.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 15:32

Timmy Age 6: Jul 23, 2011; Lobster says "mrow?"; Ramrod XTreme

BalloonFish posted:

How about some Imperial Airways timetables from 1933?

Overland route to India:

(All times local, flight leg durations from departure to arrival)

Saturday: (aircraft is a Handley Page HP.45)
Leave Croydon: 0830
Arrive Paris (LBG): 1045 (leg: 2hr 15m)
Arrive Basle: 1345 (leg: 2hr 45m)

==Overnight train to Genoa==

Sunday: (aircraft changed to a Short Kent flying boat)

Leave Genoa: 0645
Arrive Naples: 1130 (leg: 4hr 45m)
Arrive Corfu: 1745 (leg: 4hr 15m)

==Overnight stay in Corfu==

Monday:
Depart Corfu: 0600
Arrive Athens: 0900 (leg: 3hr)
[Fuel and lunch stop at Crete - passengers join/alight "if conditions permit and inducement offers"] (leg: 3hr 20m)
Arrive Alexandria: 1630 (leg: 3hr 25m)

==Train to Cairo, overnight in hotel==

Tuesday: (aircraft changed to a Handley Page HP.42)
Depart Cairo: 0645
Arrive Gaza: 0920 (leg: 2hr 35m)
Arrive Rutbah Wells: 1430 (leg: 4hr 25m)
Arrive Baghdad: 1800 (leg: 3hr 30m)

==Overnight stay in Baghdad==

Wednesday:
Depart Baghdad: 0300
Arrive Basra: 0620 (leg: 3hr 20m)
Arrive Bushire: 1010 (leg: 3hr 50m)
Arrive Lingeh: 1520 (leg: 5hr 10m)
Arrive Jask: 1830 (leg: 3hr 10m)

==Overnight stay in Jask==

Thursday:
Depart Jask: 0600
Arrive Gwadar: 1100 (leg: 5hr)
Arrive Karachi: 1535 (leg: 3hr 35m)

==Overnight stay in Karachi==

Friday:

Depart Karachi: 0630
Arrive Jodhpur: 1030 (leg: 4hr)
Arrive Delhi: 1440 (leg: 4hr 10m)

Aicraft departs for westbound service on Wednesday.

Total distance: 4340 nautical miles
Total time of journey: 145 hours, 40 minutes (av speed: 28.9 knts)
Total time in air: 66 hours 30 minutes (av speed: 65.5 knts)

Was the red line following you on the chart a complimentary amenity?
(that's super cool, thanks for summing that up)

# ? Mar 16, 2021 15:38

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Platystemon posted:

Airships couldn�t do it in eight hours. That�s planes, and it�s planes cruising at a minimum of three hundred miles per hour.

The 314 in long-range econ cruise was doing 115-125kts indicated. Assuming 5000ft, that means 135-145kts true. It�s not until you get to postwar airliners like the Constellation that you see cruise speeds anywhere near 300mph true.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 15:54

Lord Stimperor: Jun 13, 2018; I'm a lovable meme.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

even in the relative comfort and quiet of modern lie flat business class each hour on a plane after roughly hour 8 is exponentially more annoying, and after hour 12 is excruciating. can't imagine doing it flying at low altitude through all the storms with four twin cyclones rattling away.

If the alternative would be be a week long ride on a disease ship the proposition doesn't sound as bad. Plus back then you didn't spend half a day stuck at the airport prior to departure.

# ? Mar 16, 2021 16:37

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

BalloonFish posted:

How about some Imperial Airways timetables from 1933?

Overland route to India:

(All times local, flight leg durations from departure to arrival)

Ensure the false bottom in your suit case and your money belt are well stocked with various widely accepted notes in varying denominations to pay your massive liquor and hotel bills due to the unique mix of maintenance, equipment, personnel and weather related issues generating delays of several months as you try and execute this.

You should also probably make sure you and your valet are heavily armed as well.

edit: I wonder what the cost of all the airfare is in today dollars. I bet it's well over $100k.

Murgos fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 16, 2021

# ? Mar 16, 2021 16:58

Scam Likely: Feb 19, 2021

How many people are on those journeys? Is it a single important person, a group, or just people coming and going at different parts?

# ? Mar 16, 2021 16:59

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 06:21

shame on an IGA: Apr 8, 2005

Murgos posted:

Ensure the false bottom in your suit case and your money belt are well stocked with various widely accepted notes in varying denominations to pay your massive liquor and hotel bills due to the unique mix of maintenance, equipment, personnel and weather related issues generating delays of several months as you try and execute this.

You should also probably make sure you and your valet are heavily armed as well.

edit: I wonder what the cost of all the airfare is in today dollars. I bet it's well over $100k.

somewhere around $9-10k for London > Karachi

# ? Mar 16, 2021 17:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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