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I was one of those "Yui is the real villain" people because she sets humanity on a course for annihilation so that she alone can live forever as a god. I had hoped that EoE was the timeline where she won and got away with everything she wanted, and Rebuild would be the timeline where Gendo realizes that his thing for her is super destructive and that he needs to cope with loss, and father and son push Mom back into her soul jar at the last possible minute rather than wipe out all civilization to spend some more time with her. What we got instead was fine. All I really demanded was that Kaworu get a better shake than he has in the past, and making him something of a time genie who has been running this adventure over and over again to get a result Shinji is satisfied with is in keeping with his whole "I was born to meet you" thing, so here's to not getting poo poo on a third time. At least Anno can move on to focus on celebrating Kamen Rider, and I am down with that.
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Aug 14, 2021 08:19
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Raxivace posted:
This is an awesome detail. I thought I recognised it but couldn't place it. One thing I'm not sure about from my one viewing maybe someone can help me with: Do we know how exactly Kaji sacrificed himself for Third Impact? Do we know the extent of his deal/relationship with Kaworu or what that was about in general? These might be unanswered questions or maybe I just need a re-watch?
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Aug 14, 2021 08:36
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I don't think I could imagine a more satisfying conclusion
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Aug 14, 2021 08:44
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among many other thoughts Im not gonna get into because its 4 in the morning and I gotta go to sleep, I would just like to say that I clapped like a loving seal when Gendo stood up from getting shot in the face and the hole + the glowing light in his head made the gunbuster symbol for no reason at all
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Aug 14, 2021 08:51
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Craptacular! posted:I was one of those "Yui is the real villain" people because she sets humanity on a course for annihilation so that she alone can live forever as a god. I had hoped that EoE was the timeline where she won and got away with everything she wanted, and Rebuild would be the timeline where Gendo realizes that his thing for her is super destructive and that he needs to cope with loss, and father and son push Mom back into her soul jar at the last possible minute rather than wipe out all civilization to spend some more time with her. She didn't, though. Humanity was on a course for destruction well before she entered the scene. All Yui did was try to cushion the crash a bit. Gendo's relationship with Yui is (eventually) super destructive because Gendo is basically Shinji at his worst with decades of experience to let him hide it better, but Yui is generally shown as a Good Person, even if she's a mad scientist's mad scientist with family ties to an evil conspiracy planning to end mankind. She spends way too much of her time bringing up the morals of the show to really work as the villain.
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Aug 14, 2021 09:07
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I'd like some some post-mortem Anno interviews about this last film. Also, the whole barebones-animation to EOE "recreating the world" throwback to the real-life setting was cool.
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Aug 14, 2021 09:34
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Was there any significance/reference in the retro-sounding backing track when the Wunder is fighting the NERV ship before/during the descent to the NERV HQ? It sounded like nothing else in the series, not even like the remastered Nadia tunes from 3.0.
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Aug 14, 2021 09:51
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bicycle posted:This is an awesome detail. I thought I recognised it but couldn't place it. what we get in this film is all we get. the brief theory seems to be kaworu became commander of NERV after N3I and Gendo and Fuyutsuki were up in the mountains (presumably evading authorities) and making friends with a goat. Kaji was Kaworu's 2IC. We do not know how Kaji stopped Third Impact. The implication seems to be that Kaworu was an inside man for WILLE somehow but it's all a bit muddled because we don't really know what happened with Third Impact at all and if Kaworu was on WILLE's side then why would they need to rise up against NERV?
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Aug 14, 2021 09:53
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Horizon Burning posted:what we get in this film is all we get. the brief theory seems to be kaworu became commander of NERV after N3I and Gendo and Fuyutsuki were up in the mountains (presumably evading authorities) and making friends with a goat. Kaji was Kaworu's 2IC. We do not know how Kaji stopped Third Impact. The implication seems to be that Kaworu was an inside man for WILLE somehow but it's all a bit muddled because we don't really know what happened with Third Impact at all and if Kaworu was on WILLE's side then why would they need to rise up against NERV? Anno confirmed in an interview that after 2.0, Gendo and Fuyutsuki are removed as heads of NERV and go into hiding, while Kaji & Kaworu are appointed as the new commanders of NERV (as seen in this one and also briefly the 3.0 preview). piecing things together, it seems likely that Third Impact was caused by Mark 06 and the 12th Angel, so presumably Kaji somehow used the Spear of Longinus to stop it, sacrificing himself. the details of all that are totally unclear though, but Anno said he wants to tell the story of the timeskip eventually so maybe we'll find out more in another decade
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Aug 14, 2021 10:04
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What an ending... I don't know how I should feel about it, I did not cry but it definitely did stir some emotions in me. Do I go back and watch the series from the start? Do I move on and say goodbye to Evangelion?
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Aug 14, 2021 10:09
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I rewatched all the previous rebuilds on amazon before watching the new one and hell i’m probably alone in thinking this but Mari’s first eng dub va Trina Nishimura was waaay better imho. She’s too cutesy and silly in the amazon dub & script which I think was to differentiate her from Asuka maybe hell i don’t know. Speaking of Mari the opening angel battle in rebuild 2.22 feels much shorter in the amazon release. I’m gonna have to play them side by side to see if it is. Wachter posted:These things owned: Agreed on all these points exactly.
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Aug 14, 2021 10:43
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lih posted:Anno said he wants to tell the story of the timeskip eventually That's really surprising. Did he say this years ago or is this something that he said more recently? He could have announced there would be five Rebuilds instead of four to accomplish this but after Thrice Upon a Time I don't see how he would do this now.
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Aug 14, 2021 11:11
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lih posted:but Anno said he wants to tell the story of the timeskip eventually so maybe we'll find out more in another decade The entire saga is up there with my favorite fiction of all-time, but I pray he puts it to bed. We got two versions. Can you imagine if they Star Wars this? Christ.
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Aug 14, 2021 11:13
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A bit of an odd question but I can't find anything referring to this so I'm not sure if its something my dumb rear end made up back in the day, or was told some bullshit or was a real concept.... but wasn't Mari's initial design that she was wheelchair bound? Which was why the Eva 05 was on wheels. I swear I read it somewhere reliable...
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Aug 14, 2021 11:13
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SUNKOS posted:That's really surprising. Did he say this years ago or is this something that he said more recently? the third film was going to be that story, but anno decided he didn't want to do a film without shinji, leading to 3.33 as we have it. i think he said this very recently.
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Aug 14, 2021 11:15
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Shoehead posted:Gendo hugged Shinji and said he was sorry for abandoning him and I burst into tears For this, and several other reasons, I give this movie a rating of 5  s out of 5. I loved all of it.Wachter posted:misguided vengeance against SEELE's failure to meet OSHA guidelines New thread title
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Aug 14, 2021 11:33
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The callback with Ritsuko just shooting Gendo immediately rather than trying to talk his ear off first was fun.
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Aug 14, 2021 12:16
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Archer666 posted:A bit of an odd question but I can't find anything referring to this so I'm not sure if its something my dumb rear end made up back in the day, or was told some bullshit or was a real concept.... but wasn't Mari's initial design that she was wheelchair bound? Which was why the Eva 05 was on wheels. I swear I read it somewhere reliable... Don't think so. The first shot of Mari had her standing up, before they even knew what her personality was, or how large a role she would have. That said, Mari's pre-2 development process was chaotic enough they might have considered it. I think the details about her in 4 were more-or-less planned by the time 2 came out in theaters, but the process of getting there was a messy one. (Made messier by Anno doing his best to not be involved.)
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Aug 14, 2021 12:23
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For some reason I'm imagining a Gurren Lagann Parallel Works-esque anthology covering the Near Third Impact aftermath via a series of wildly tonally dissimilar music videos
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Aug 14, 2021 12:44
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Horizon Burning posted:the third film was going to be that story, but anno decided he didn't want to do a film without shinji, leading to 3.33 as we have it. i think he said this very recently. That's what throws me, because the original third film as shown in the preview at the end of 2.22, was in Thrice Upon a Time. We saw that footage again rather than it being left out, which is why (combined with the finality of 3.0 + 1.0) this seems unusual to me. If Anno said that recently then I'm really surprised. I have a feeling work on Thrice Upon a Time was ongoing up until release as well, since iirc the 'First 10 minutes' preview they showed not long before release actually differed in the final film, I think? It's been a while since I watched that preview clip.
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Aug 14, 2021 12:49
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Archer666 posted:A bit of an odd question but I can't find anything referring to this so I'm not sure if its something my dumb rear end made up back in the day, or was told some bullshit or was a real concept.... but wasn't Mari's initial design that she was wheelchair bound? Which was why the Eva 05 was on wheels. I swear I read it somewhere reliable... Not the initial design, but they talked tons about how they started with the stand alone idea they needed a new girl in the movies without any idea what her role was so they spent huge amounts of time designing and redesigning her because it was hard to make her not overlap with rei or asuka. I remember them showing sketches of her as like a little kid and with cat ear hair clips and it sounds like they just really went broad. I would believe she was in a wheel chair in some design pitch. It sounds like they just had everyone draw all the crazy ideas they could think of. Even her final design is a weird "what if she was really british" that never really fully comes through.
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Aug 14, 2021 13:23
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Anno said in two separate recent interviews that he wants to tell the story of the events of the timeskip someday, and that the original 3.0 preview is canon
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Aug 14, 2021 13:42
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Was it just me, or did it feel to anyone else like there was a scene missing between Shinji seeing Gendo quantum teleporting around in the anti-universe and the city/movie set fight, like a solid half-minute of action at the very least to bridge the gap? I felt like I'd pressed the wrong button on my remote for a second. Overall that's how a lot of the back half of the movie felt after the Wunder begins its assault on NERV HQ, like there are really jarring chunks missing from the movie's connective tissue. This movie could have been like fifteen minutes longer to give it more time to breathe, but then again it wouldn't be a Rebuild movie if it didn't try to stuff way too much esoteric jargon and barely-explained lore into way too little time. I do kinda love how all the adult characters constantly namedrop weird poo poo without a moment's pause before moving on from one barely-explained gnostic-sounding concept to the next, because Shinji is the audience surrogate and nobody ever tells him poo poo. Also Gendo being a hollow shell with angel light inside him loving owns, coolest imagery in the whole movie
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Aug 14, 2021 13:54
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I really liked all the Mecha designs. I didn't like billions+ years of the effects of the moon's and all of the schemes of SEELE and Gendo across multiple iterations/reality loops immediately getting resolved forever after Gendo and shinji talk for 15mins. Reminded me of Rise of Skywalker where a character fully switches sides after getting a psychic poke. It retroactively makes the original series seem silly that all they needed to prevent multiple apocalypses is a bit of active listening. Everything gets tied up in a neat bow, with god powered shinji rewarding his friends with fanfiction endings. In eoe shinji's ending choice seemed like a blessing granted in return for shinji's kindness from the dispassionate, big rei. In this the lesson of the story is shinji is the chosen one protagonist, he makes the rules, it's his story everyone else is just a tagalong.
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Aug 14, 2021 15:06
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VocalizePlayerDeath posted:I really liked all the Mecha designs. and yet maybe thats all it takes to make someone not lead a destructive life in the not-anime world
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Aug 14, 2021 15:07
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The dub for 3.0+1.01 seems to get better as it goes along, but there are still several weird pauses mid-sentence that don't really make sense even late in the film. Amanda Winn-Lee is still excellent as Rei, though, even after all these years. Better this than Netflixing it again, certainly. Haven't watched the first three with the new dub yet, and I'm not sure if I want to, honestly. The original Funi dub work on 1.11, and especially on 2.22, is some of the best English language anime voicework I've ever heard, up there with Bebop, and I'm not sure it's possible to top it. Is the "original" dub for 3.33 basically lost media at this point? It's kinda remarkable how much Deneen Melody sounds like Trina Nishimura in places, though the similarities decrease during the action bits. She still does a pretty good job of it. Also, I swear at one point Kaji sounds like the guy they had in the old Special Edition release, then he goes back to sounding like the new guy. Plastic_Gargoyle fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 15:13
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I'm glad I got the original rebuild Blu-rays when I did. 2.22 had Mari say "just loving die" Prime dub took out the loving. Come on Amazon, let Mari curse 
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Aug 14, 2021 15:39
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I'm in the camp of "there were things I like, and things I didn't like." One thing I havent seen mentioned is the music, which I think was pretty bad, at least the stuff with vocals that played. Cant help but compare it to EOE with Kom Susser Tod which was so iconic too.
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Aug 14, 2021 15:40
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About the music, low key glad I'm now able to associate Joy To The World with eva
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Aug 14, 2021 15:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Not the initial design, but they talked tons about how they started with the stand alone idea they needed a new girl in the movies without any idea what her role was so they spent huge amounts of time designing and redesigning her because it was hard to make her not overlap with rei or asuka. I remember them showing sketches of her as like a little kid and with cat ear hair clips and it sounds like they just really went broad. I would believe she was in a wheel chair in some design pitch. It sounds like they just had everyone draw all the crazy ideas they could think of. Even her final design is a weird "what if she was really british" that never really fully comes through. These were her concept art designs, oldest to just prior to being finalized    There's a big slab of really interesting making of 2.0 material and interviews translated here that are well worth a read, because in addition to explaining Mari's origins a lot of it explains their method and informs the direction the entire series took once the original plan was dumped due to 1.0's success: https://www.gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc The wheelchair thing doesn't appear to have existed, because there's a part where Anno explains his choice to make 05 non-bipedal and it's not part of it. But there's lots of interesting behind the scenes stuff there, at the very least worth searching for "Mari" and jumping to the parts that explain their ordeals trying to figure her out.
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Aug 14, 2021 15:57
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The wheelchair thing was a fan theory based on early trailer footage and leaks that showed A) mari’s eva was not bipedal and B) her plug suit was bicolor with different colored legs. That was it, just people throwing out wild ideas based on very little information.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:11
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Miching Mallecho posted:I'm glad I got the original rebuild Blu-rays when I did. https://youtu.be/bPWBOFzNCoQ She means business
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Aug 14, 2021 16:24
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I have seen none of the rebuilds and will be marathoning them all today, stay tuned
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Aug 14, 2021 16:33
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There’s also The Final Challenge of Evangelion documentary on prime. Im watching it now, pretty cool behind the scenes.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:46
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not much to say about 1.11 except the CGI is fine and the slightly different musical score is fantastic. 2.22: They're getting ready to test unit 04, everyone's off-screen therapy sessions seem to be paying off wonderfully.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:52
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WELP
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Aug 14, 2021 16:56
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Lube Enthusiast posted:https://youtu.be/bPWBOFzNCoQ The new dub scripts aren't doing Deneen Melody any favors, but Trina Nishimura was still so much better at putting weight and emotion into Mari's lines. She really knew how to push her voice and scream effectively.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:03
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I watched this last night on a lovely laptop screen with headphones on. Now, it might've been that it was about 4AM when I was done or the beer coursing through my veins, but I found that Evangelion 4 was a fulfilling, cathartic experience and about as perfect an ending as I could imagine. I've got no complaints and there were many moments where I had the stupidest grin on my face watching the movie. Like "Neon Genesis". I mean, come on that's absolutely hilarious and perfect. I've never seen a title drop that works so well.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:08
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VocalizePlayerDeath posted:I really liked all the Mecha designs. These are largely my thoughts as well. Shinji begins the movie in a depressed state, and mopes around for a week before suddenly getting better on his own? That's not how things generally work. These characters have a lifetime of trauma, as we've been shown over and over again. It's a central theme that everyone's dealing with a lot because of hosed up things in their past. But they get over it after a quick chat with Shinji? Again, that's not how it works, and it feels unearned. Yes it's cathartic to see our beloved characters be healed, but it feels far too rushed. Even the scene where the pink-haired bridge officer and Toji's sister hold Shinji at gunpoint to stop him getting to the Eva. They have a quick chat, and their objections over millions of people/a person's entire family getting wiped out the last time he got in an Eva are smoothed over in record time because the plot demands Shinji get in the robot again. I think I'm especially sensitive to these things because I'm now in therapy to tackle my own issues, and I know full well that big trauma doesn't get resolved in a couple minutes. I know it's a movie with a limited runtime, and it's Eva so it doesn't have to make sense, but the franchise has generally been realistic with people's psyches, so it stands out to me here.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:12
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2.22: Awww a third impact fueled entirely by love and self-actualization 
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Aug 14, 2021 17:33
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