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Raere posted:These are largely my thoughts as well. I think you do a good job of highlighting why this absolutely did not work for me. The originals were heavily about the characters trauma and their psychology, and one of my big take aways from it is basically, if you wanted Shinji to get in the robot, you didn't understand what was going on. Shinji getting in the robot and being the hero is just wrong to me, it's a betrayal of what made Shinji an interesting character. Shinji shouldn't have to get in the loving robot at all. If you wanted an ending I would find cathartic, it should've been Shinji finally rejecting it for good. As well yeah, the ultimate ending feels too happy in an unearned way. EoE was great because it's basically...the end of the world is happening but you can still survive. It won't be easy, the worst is still awful, but you are still there, you can keep going. Making everything perfect just takes away from that. Oh look everyone is fixed yay. As well when it comes to Gendo, this is absolutely inserting my own personal issues, but I feel him understanding and liking Gendo is also missing the point. I much rather preferred the original interpretation of at the end Shinji learns that they don't need Gendo's approval. What Gendo thinks doesn't loving matter because he's a horrible father and gently caress him and keep moving on. I am absolutely in the circular venn diagram that is someone with major depression and who EVA shaped my childhood and this whole movie series was the opposite of everything I could have ever wanted from the series.
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Aug 14, 2021 17:59
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also lol https://twitter.com/kawarayaata/status/1425931137554083842?s=20
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Aug 14, 2021 18:04
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Eimi posted:I think you do a good job of highlighting why this absolutely did not work for me. I think you guys need to realize that one reason Eva is hard to watch for some people is that Shinji is such a spineless bowl of jelly at so many junctures that it is fatiguing to an audience. I once showed the series to a friend who has life-long ongoing depression issues and he doesn't much care for the show and I sort of half-apologetically share why I like it with him, and his primary reason is because he sees TV Shinji as just such a coward. We never watched End of Eva, but it wouldn't matter because Shinji just continuing to bury his head between his knees as people die around him dies would be the very height of pissing this person off. He's certainly not the first person I've heard these criticisms from, and it seems like these criticisms eventually resonated with Anno because one of the most consistent themes of Rebuild is that Shinji is way more determined than he ever was in TV. Fate kicks back at him even harder for this, until in 3-4 territory where the world is arguably more hosed than it's ever been and once again Shinji is reduced to sitting by himself with his thoughts, but his time spent at the village is clearly what drives him in 4. He becomes more aware of Misato's pain. Kensuke suggests he patch things up with his father. Toji has lived a life that wasn't easy but has adapted as well as he can. These things motivate him to eventually keep moving forward. I think the last sentence of your post is possibly the problem. If you liked the show because it was like a visual outlet for your own problems, you're not going to like the movies because the entire point of them is "but enough of that bullshit." Anno worked out his own issues to a place where he is comfortable, and since Japan won't stop treating this property he's over as anything less than a superstar of the medium he's using it to coax people to sort their own issues out, too.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:55
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God drat I loved that movie. Definitely one to rewatch as there's no way I caught everything in one watch but as others have said it's a very cathartic movie. Do I still have questions about the lore and such? Obviously yes. Do I think it would have been as effective if I didn't have decades of rewatching the original TV series/movies? Probably not. Also I love the soundtrack. All of it is really good at setting the proper tone/complementing the scene. Love the track that plays when Eva imaginary/live action Lilith begins emerging. The only issue with it is that it doesn't have a Komm Susser Todd equivalent. That's a big ask though. Can't think of any other anime that has such an iconic song that perfectly pares with a scene it's used in while also standing up to stand alone listening outside the context of the show/movie. Now that it's all out outside Japan, does anyone know what the hell was up with the English dubs after 2.22? My understanding is that 3.33 got delayed because Khara essentially forced a more literal script translation after seeing Funimations original dub at a convention. Not sure if this is true though. Speaking of Khara, I was worried that they would mandate the Amazon dubs to have a script as rough or rougher than the 3.33 dub or (God forbid) the Netflix TV dub. Nothing that bad, though they did remove my favourite adaptation choice Funimation made from 1.11 (changing Ritsukos exposition dump on Operation Yashima into her listing the many reasons why Misatos plan is crazy) Related note, anyone know why Funimation didn't work on 3.0 + 1.0?
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Aug 14, 2021 19:33
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Mari is the best, I want to ride in a sports car with her backing up as stylishly as she drives the armless eva in the intro. This movie just had fun with itself despite some depressing stuff.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:58
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The thing about the Khara mandating the dub changes after the convention screening should be taken with a grain of salt. The story originated on these forums. That being said if any execs were at one of the original screenings I easily see how that would happen as I saw it in the theatres and people were laughing their asses off at the dialogue between Kawrou and Shinji (I think the audience reaction was INCREDIBLY lovely because what they were laughing at was essentially “haha they’re gay innuendo”). Funi probably didn’t grab the 4th movie because A) it probably became prohibitively expensive due the high price tag of anime these days, and giant companies throwing their hats in the ring B) After all the hassle of dealing with Khara, why bother throwing all that money down? Finally, I think the fact that Amazon was able to go with the old dub cast again and the translation was okay I think really brings more weight to the idea Netflix did 0 pushback on the bad choices that got written for their localization. Feel bad for that dub cast, but I don’t think that dub is going to be remembered in a good way at all.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:02
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Finally watched it. Loved it. It's.....it's over. Definitively. It's finally over. I personally think CGI Rei face was an inspired choice because it freaked me out just as much as the original. Probably because it looked like a ps2 head, but it still worked!!
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Aug 14, 2021 20:05
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Shinjobi posted:Finally watched it. Loved it. It's.....it's over. Definitively. It's finally over.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:13
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Craptacular! posted:I think you guys need to realize that one reason Eva is hard to watch for some people is that Shinji is such a spineless bowl of jelly at so many junctures that it is fatiguing to an audience. I once showed the series to a friend who has life-long ongoing depression issues and he doesn't much care for the show and I sort of half-apologetically share why I like it with him, and his primary reason is because he sees TV Shinji as just such a coward. We never watched End of Eva, but it wouldn't matter because Shinji just continuing to bury his head between his knees as people die around him dies would be the very height of pissing this person off. That helps me get why perhaps some people could like this vs the show. Show Shinji is someone I absolutely related to, and so the show treating his inaction as more than him being cowardly, at least in my reading, is a strength to me. That Shinji was a soft, calm, quiet, emotionally caring boy helped too. As a young trans woman he's the one boy I could relate to, and once I stumbled upon it I loved the read that Shinji is trans, especially with that scene in EoE with the Rei clones with Shinji's head on them. That reading is just not possible with Rebuild.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:24
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I'm gld they resolved mari's character arc.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:28
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Eimi posted:As well when it comes to Gendo, this is absolutely inserting my own personal issues, but I feel him understanding and liking Gendo is also missing the point. I much rather preferred the original interpretation of at the end Shinji learns that they don't need Gendo's approval. What Gendo thinks doesn't loving matter because he's a horrible father and gently caress him and keep moving on. I have a pretty poo poo relationship with my father and, honestly, Gendo always reminded me of him even when I watched EVA as a kid in the late 90s, but personally Shinji's entire exchange with Gendo worked for me. It's not a matter of having him like Gendo, because I don't think Shinji does nor is the audience supposed to. And it's not like Shinji is really vying for Gendo's approval as a cornerstone of his entire self-worth at this point either. But "why is he like this" is a perfectly valid question for a son to have for a poo poo father. What Shinji does is, for the first time in this entire series, try to understand why he's like this by using his words. Yeah, it doesn't undo the lifetime neglect, and if Gendo totally rebuffed him, Shinji can at least say "well I honestly tried." But Gendo at least somewhat confides in Shinji as to why he was the way he was so Shinji can at least learn from it. And personally I think communication is one of the most pivotal themes of Evangelion since it's inception and here, Shinji made the leap to just try to talk to him.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:30
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Yeah I did not get the vibe that Shinji forgave Gendo at all. I don't think that was even on the table. I think it's more....here we are, poo poo has gone absolutely mental....why are you like this? Why are we here? Tell me, at the very least, how we got to this point. And that feels valid to me. It works for someone in Shinji's shoes, doubly so for the audience at this point.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:48
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I mean I don't see how you could interpret the visuals of that last scene with him as implying that at all.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:54
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loved basically everything about 3.0+1.0 except for the way it framed the action of the last third; i enjoyed most of it in the moment, but i felt like it really lost a ton of the scale of what was happening that EoE excelled at. a formless red void just isn't the same as watching the entire earth erupt into screaming crosses thanks to a vaginahead the size of the moon, and the mass production fight wasted a sick as hell design on an action sequence that felt a lot more figuratively and literally weightless than the original one. these are extremely minor nitpicks for my overall enjoyment though; been watching eva since vhs fansubs hit, and after having entirely skipped the rebuilds until the prime release date drop, i watched one of them each week in the lead-up to this one. it got me way back into my teenage feels.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:57
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So I guess clones hate wearing clothes or something lol wtf. I do agree that this was a very direct and on the nose film, but thats seems fine for the character and the fact that the series is old as gently caress and done with now. E: I guess thats a spoiler DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 21:01
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This movie was truly a Neon Genesis Evangelion.
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Aug 14, 2021 21:08
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Evangelion 3.0 + 1.0: Hideaki Anno Becomes a Wife Guy
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Aug 14, 2021 21:14
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done with 3.0+1.0, don't understand all the confusion about Mari? She's an obvious extension of the theme "meeting new people is good" now that Auska, Toji and the rest can't be used to make that point after this cast of characters has been repeatedly and intentionally traumatized together like someone trying to bond houserabbits. So maybe you've opened yourself up and let the circle of people that are around you into your comfort zone? That's great, now keep growing socially because if you stagnate in a bubble of familiarity you might miss meeting the super-pilot that can bite God's knees off. That's what Mari is all about, Charlie Brown.
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Aug 14, 2021 22:26
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I think Mari is kind of a Mary Sue.
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Aug 14, 2021 22:45
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Mari is the Rebuild’s commentary on the original series personified in anime girl form but also Anno’s wife, but also like, someone who enjoys Eva and what it’s trying to say without the weird creepy otaku culture. I also enjoyed how time loop is kinda real but doesn’t matter but also certain characters like Ritsuko apparently saw the original series and learned their lessons
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Aug 14, 2021 23:17
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I want to bask in the moment but this movie was incredible and I cried a lot. I have been reborn.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:37
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Mari works imo because her being someone that shinji has no real connection with is representative of him moving past his childhood trauma and all the bullshit he’s gone through and starting an entirely new life. Yeah, he didn’t go through as much with her as he did with asuka or Rei, but that’s kind of the point, it’s about him moving on and having new experiences, and part of that would potentially involve being with someone new and having new adventures beyond the baggage of past trauma and, semi textually, hundreds of time loops.
Babysitter Super Sleuth fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 23:44
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So, Asuka question after 3.0+1.0, massive spoilers obviously How long has Asuka been a clone? Since the beginning? Since the events of 2.0? Between 2.0 and 3.0's timeskip?
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Aug 15, 2021 00:04
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:So, Asuka question after 3.0+1.0, massive spoilers obviously IMO she's a clone since 3.33's timeskip the original Asuka was absorbed by unit Angel and is an LCL ghost at the most as we saw in this finale. I really enjoyed it.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:39
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:So, Asuka question after 3.0+1.0, massive spoilers obviously Implied the beginning of rebuild timeline. She seems to be the one that outperformed the rest as most of the rest of the ‘shikinami series’ is shown to be scratched off or something like that on a list. 2.0 had her infected with the angel (shown as coming from the patch in the final movie when she goes full angel mode?) and quarantined from my memory.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:51
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I liked it and thought it was a satisfying ending but the original and End of Evangelion transcend the genre like all great art while the rebuild is merely a very good story
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Aug 15, 2021 01:04
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mistermojo posted:I liked it and thought it was a satisfying ending but the original and End of Evangelion transcend the genre like all great art while the rebuild is merely a very good story It does make an incredibly interesting companion piece to the original though. And honestly Rebuild as a whole is still probably my favorite franchise filmmaking since it came out.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:17
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the English script for this movie is, uh, not great. lol
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Aug 15, 2021 01:25
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Raxivace posted:I do agree with this, as much as I loved the last Rebuild, but I also never expected Rebuild to replace or be as good as NGE+EoE to begin with.` they do look amazing and are filled with very cool sci fi art and imagery so I am glad he got to make them
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Aug 15, 2021 01:30
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Does anyone think Ano saw how the manga ended and used some of that for this ending? The manga ending with Shinji starting a new life, college I think(dont remember specifically),the manga didn't age him up, but they both end at train stations and he's basically moving on
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Aug 15, 2021 01:44
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Augus posted:the English script for this movie is, uh, not great. lol tbqh if you don't like "I have deeds... TO PERRRFOOOOORM!" you can get out of the thread I'm baffled by the line where fuyutsuki repeats himself and i can't tell if it's another unusual line delivery from the master of "oh my god it's an anti at field" or if they've actually left, like, a second take in the recording (it's the line about soon reactivating Unit 13 "Soon Unit 13 will be reactivated! Soon Unit 13 will be reactivated." or something) as someone who works in manga localization, the amazon scrips aren't as bad as the Netflix ones but still show the importance of actually localizing your scripts into how people talk. it's weird because the amazon scrips have some more relaxed lines right next to really obviously tightly as-written ones.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:30
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Horizon Burning posted:tbqh if you don't like "I have deeds... TO PERRRFOOOOORM!" you can get out of the thread
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Aug 15, 2021 02:36
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imagine watching evangelion for 25 years and then coming into this thread after the big finale and actually complaining that everything worked out this time because they actually communicated for once. like, no poo poo? the whole problem has always been lack of communication, no one ever communicated how they felt, we HAVE PERSONAL A.T FIELDS THAT INHIBIT IT, instrumentality's whole point is to destroy the boundries between each other so we don't need to communicate anymore and exist in singularity. original NGE is "i am sad and it is hard to communicate why without feeling judged, but maybe if i try harder at it and accept my feelings and my problems as my own then i will have a better life" and rebuild is "i managed to communicate my needs, and was rewarded with a better life. you can do it too!" these works are entirely consistent and in conversation with each other. one is made by a man in the middle of the throes of depression, making a work that is telling himself the things he needs to tell himself in order to get through the day and maintain some hope that things could ever change for him one day, and the other is by a man that actually came out the other side and is trying to show other people that he understands where they are now but that they can do it too. i do not say this to be mean, but to the poster above saying they're in therapy and that there's no way people would get better by just talking, i can guarantee you that you will have a lot of success opening up and engaging in radical honesty with yourself and others. this film and series of films was literally made for people in your position. keep at it! anno believes in you!!!
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Aug 15, 2021 02:55
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Paper Lion posted:imagine watching evangelion for 25 years and then coming into this thread after the big finale and actually complaining that everything worked out this time because they actually communicated for once. like, no poo poo? the whole problem has always been lack of communication, no one ever communicated how they felt, we HAVE PERSONAL A.T FIELDS THAT INHIBIT IT, instrumentality's whole point is to destroy the boundries between each other so we don't need to communicate anymore and exist in singularity. original NGE is "i am sad and it is hard to communicate why without feeling judged, but maybe if i try harder at it and accept my feelings and my problems as my own then i will have a better life" and rebuild is "i managed to communicate my needs, and was rewarded with a better life. you can do it too!" these works are entirely consistent and in conversation with each other. one is made by a man in the middle of the throes of depression, making a work that is telling himself the things he needs to tell himself in order to get through the day and maintain some hope that things could ever change for him one day, and the other is by a man that actually came out the other side and is trying to show other people that he understands where they are now but that they can do it too. i do not say this to be mean, but to the poster above saying they're in therapy and that there's no way people would get better by just talking, i can guarantee you that you will have a lot of success opening up and engaging in radical honesty with yourself and others. this film and series of films was literally made for people in your position. keep at it! anno believes in you!!! 
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Aug 15, 2021 03:09
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It's funny because the original Evangelion imagined everything going to utter poo poo just as the world at the turn of the century was actually looking up, and now that the world is going to poo poo and everyone has symptoms of PTSD and depression Eva comes back and "everything worked out this time"
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Aug 15, 2021 03:22
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I loved this so much and though I usually have a real problem with being mad that something i love is 'over', i'm not with this. Also, i have pretty severe depression and this was really, really what i needed to start think about picking myself up off the floor a bit. it's been a hard two years, I almost died once during that time period, and needed this. Looking forward to catching the making-of doc soon.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:22
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The United States posted:It's funny because the original Evangelion imagined everything going to utter poo poo just as the world at the turn of the century was actually looking up, and now that the world is going to poo poo and everyone has symptoms of PTSD and depression Eva comes back and "everything worked out this time" I don't think that's the message of EoE at all. EoE is Shinji being presented with absolute perfect happiness and understanding and deciding that the human condition was more important. That things are hard, and painful, and terrible, but it's still worth struggling on. Jonny 290 posted:I loved this so much and though I usually have a real problem with being mad that something i love is 'over', i'm not with this. To me this film series was just "Oh well have you tried not being depressed?" while the tv series and EoE were more about someone who got it, and understood what I am going through.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:36
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Paper Lion posted:imagine watching evangelion for 25 years and then coming into this thread after the big finale and actually complaining that everything worked out this time because they actually communicated for once. like, no poo poo? the whole problem has always been lack of communication, no one ever communicated how they felt, we HAVE PERSONAL A.T FIELDS THAT INHIBIT IT, instrumentality's whole point is to destroy the boundries between each other so we don't need to communicate anymore and exist in singularity. original NGE is "i am sad and it is hard to communicate why without feeling judged, but maybe if i try harder at it and accept my feelings and my problems as my own then i will have a better life" and rebuild is "i managed to communicate my needs, and was rewarded with a better life. you can do it too!" these works are entirely consistent and in conversation with each other. one is made by a man in the middle of the throes of depression, making a work that is telling himself the things he needs to tell himself in order to get through the day and maintain some hope that things could ever change for him one day, and the other is by a man that actually came out the other side and is trying to show other people that he understands where they are now but that they can do it too. i do not say this to be mean, but to the poster above saying they're in therapy and that there's no way people would get better by just talking, i can guarantee you that you will have a lot of success opening up and engaging in radical honesty with yourself and others. this film and series of films was literally made for people in your position. keep at it! anno believes in you!!! thats right
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Aug 15, 2021 03:44
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This was a nice and touching capstone to the series but tbh it kinda felt like it was mostly just restating things that the original series and EoE already said for the people that didn't get it
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Aug 15, 2021 03:55
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I am really impressed it ended in a way that was satisfactory for me. Crosspost from reddit where some guy apparently ripped all the panning shots from the entire series / rebuilds. https://imgur.com/a/QQZZ2Rh This was a cool spoilery bit from 3+1 https://imgur.com/zCXGodU
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