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The swearing is all fantasy swears and the sex is described with fantasy euphemisms instead of contemporary ones so I can see where some readers would be confused.
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Aug 18, 2021 18:50
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"Boar rushing down the mountain" in a whole new light.
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Aug 18, 2021 18:51
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There's an awful lot of horrific violence, torture, and (mostly implied) sexual assault in the books, I've never quite understood the 'Wheel of Time is a kid friendly series' mentality. I don't want them to be as horny as game of thrones was, but a lot of these folks wanting to watch the show with their small children clearly don't have great reading comprehension
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Aug 18, 2021 18:54
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aparmenideanmonad posted:https://imgur.com/a/wP01ppi I was expecting Lan and Moiraine to be a bit more distinct even in their Two Rivers vacation gear but this mostly looks fine? Very obviously intentionally shabby villager sort of stuff. Dunno, seems okay from a production values standpoint. The set design, fx, and other stuff will be a better sense of how much they hit the right marks and got the overall feel correct. Casting wise everyone looks to be close enough for government work.
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Aug 18, 2021 18:57
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How are u posted:"Boar rushing down the mountain" in a whole new light. “Sheathing the sword” too
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Aug 18, 2021 19:03
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Democratic Pirate posted:“Sheathing the sword” too Not to mention "easing the badger." But yeah, a lot of WoT sex is off screen. There's a lot of cutaway, fade to black type stuff, or even just referring to the sex after the fact. There's like what, one actual sex scene that's shown (Rand and Aviendha in the igloo) and all the rest is offscreen. So if you're looking for focus on sex, there isn't that much in the text, but in actual amount of sex going on that's just not shown, there's actually quite a bit. And just a ton of nudity, most of it female, what with all the Aes Sedai and Wise One rituals that you attend in your birthday suit. So if the show wants to throw in GoT levels of naked people, there's ample support for it in the text. 
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Aug 18, 2021 19:14
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Except the rape, which is on screen, but told by euphemisms. Definitely the grossest part of the series
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Aug 18, 2021 19:17
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CainsDescendant posted:There's an awful lot of horrific violence, torture, and (mostly implied) sexual assault in the books, I've never quite understood the 'Wheel of Time is a kid friendly series' mentality. I don't want them to be as horny as game of thrones was, but a lot of these folks wanting to watch the show with their small children clearly don't have great reading comprehension Americans always think violence and horror are fine for kids but nudity isn't.
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Aug 18, 2021 19:23
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Except the rape, which is on screen, but told by euphemisms. Definitely the grossest part of the series Yeah. That whole thing is....not good. I especially don't like how it seems we're supposed to find it funny, when it really REALLY isn't.
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Aug 18, 2021 19:24
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Data Graham posted:I'm not sure I buy Mat and Perrin being 18-year-old kids there perrin doesn't look a day under 48
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Aug 18, 2021 19:45
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jng2058 posted:Yeah. That whole thing is....not good. I especially don't like how it seems we're supposed to find it funny, when it really REALLY isn't. I dunno if funny was what he was going for, but it was just played as a one off scene with a major character
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Aug 18, 2021 19:58
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jng2058 posted:Not to mention "easing the badger." Really graphic X-rated stuff here: "Rand tried to ask her what she meant while attempting to untangle her fingers from his hair, but she clutched another handful on the other side and pulled his mouth to hers. That was the end of rational thought; the Void shattered, and saidin fled. He did not think he could have stopped himself had he wanted to, only he could not think of wanting to, and she certainly did not seem to want him to. In fact, the last thought he had of any coherency for a very long time was that he did not think he could have stopped her."
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Aug 18, 2021 20:03
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One thing's for sure, they're really making it clear that the Two Rivers folk are POC and Rand is very much not, which will play out as plot points a lot differently in a visual medium than in text.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:05
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th3t00t posted:The igloo scene also fades to black before going into detail. There's certainly no myrish swamps or pink masts described GRRM style. Fair enough, but it's still pretty much the most explicit the books ever get.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:07
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man those costumes look like poo poo. no other real way to say it. drab! no coherent visual style to say that four of these people are from the same place. perrin looks and is dressed like fezziks ugly cousin.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:13
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jng2058 posted:Fair enough, but it's still pretty much the most explicit the books ever get. Aside from the boob ceremony of course
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Aug 18, 2021 20:13
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Data Graham posted:Aside from the boob ceremony of course That's nudity...of which there's lots....as opposed to sex, of which there's also lots, but it doesn't happen onscreen.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:14
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Wot is all about sex, the way men and women control the OP are metaphors for male and female orgasms.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:15
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:Wot is all about sex, the way men and women control the OP are metaphors for male and female orgasms. The female orgasm is a myth. If it wasn't wouldn't my wife have had one by now? Checkmate 
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Aug 18, 2021 20:21
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I think what bugs me about the pictures is Mat's beard. Mat? With a beard? Nonsense. Clearly, it's just meant to indicate his slovenly nature while on the road for the first time in his life, and by the time Season 2 starts he'll be in the habit of shaving every day (to test which of his fifteen knives needs sharpening).jng2058 posted:Yeah. That whole thing is....not good. I especially don't like how it seems we're supposed to find it funny, when it really REALLY isn't. Assuming you mean Tylin and Mat,* I'm reminded a little of something I read once in someone's liveblog of reading Fifty Shades of Grey, which from memory went: "I'm concerned about the fact that E.L. James thinks Portland is north of Vancouver, believes Americans use the word 'pram', and has written a pitch perfect abusive relationship." Mat's whole Ebou Dar arc feels like RJ wrote an excellent description of an abusive relationship, from the perspective of the victim-in-denial, while packaging it in the same "haha, women being sexually aggressive, how wacky" tone that a much tamer story from the 1990s might've had. I assume it's supposed to feel deeply uncomfortable, because we're seeing it through the eyes of a man who never considered the possibility that he might be victimized that way, and who normally deals with serious and uncomfortable situations through comedy. *And not Valda and Morgase, or Shaidar Haran and ...
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Aug 18, 2021 20:22
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RC Cola posted:The female orgasm is a myth. If it wasn't wouldn't my wife have had one by now? Checkmate Truly we are in the age of legends
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Aug 18, 2021 20:27
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Vavrek posted:
I *think*, could be wrong going from memory, but I *think* that from what Harriett has said in interviews, I believe, yes, the Mat / Tylin . . . . "relationship" . . . is supposed to be deeply uncomfortable, with the idea being that it's gender-swapping what was at the time in the 90's a pretty common and pretty commonly horrible story type, and also trying to prepare both the reader and the character for Mat's later kidnapping of Tylin. Whether it *worked* or Jordan executed that in an acceptable way is a different discussion. Intent isn't always an excuse.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:29
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Maybe uncomfortable in a sitcom sense. Look at that woman being assertive like they normally aren’t! Amirite?! It’s definitely played off like men can’t be raped cause men like sex. I could excuse it for being from the 90s but honestly it didn’t need to exist.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:34
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A lot of other people also dislike it because characters in-universe describe it as Mat getting his comeuppance for being a womaniser, which is also blatantly wrong-headed as he never pursued anyone like that prior to Tylin
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Aug 18, 2021 20:35
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Data Graham posted:One thing's for sure, they're really making it clear that the Two Rivers folk are POC and Rand is very much not, which will play out as plot points a lot differently in a visual medium than in text.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:36
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Except the rape, which is on screen, but told by euphemisms. Definitely the grossest part of the series This discussion has been had before, but I'm willing to be a little forgiving considering that RJ clearly sees rape as an awful thing, a fate worse than death in some cases. Shaidar Haran rapes several female forsaken as punishment, Daved Hanlon is supposed to rape Falion as part of her punishment and is incentivized as a dark friend by things like the opportunity to rape Elayne. I feel like the Mat/Tylin stuff is a not-fully-woke and fumbled combination of two things: 1. An attempt to highlight how bad standard male attitudes towards courtship and sex with women really are. The gender dynamic reversal is just to highlight this for standard male fantasy readers. Tylin with a knife gives Mat as much choice as an average sized man gives to an average sized woman in a lot of similar situations. Tylin's extreme physical coercion and then Elayne's attitude of laughing at Mat for getting a taste of his own medicine is supposed to highlight the obvious injustice in these situations, but then the reader has to make the leap to be like, "oh it's bad when men do this to women too!". This is a lot of work to expect out of an average fantasy reading dude in the late 90s though. 2. Showing that even straight and traditionally sexually accomplished dudes like Mat can enjoy some kink. RJ does drop several hints during the lead up that Mat is aroused by what Tylin is up to despite himself. And I say this because this is how it came across to me back when I read A Crown of Swords in the 90s. But when read with contemporary eyes and sensitivity to these situations, it comes across as just another bad rape joke. There's not enough moral nuance (and RJ doesn't do clearly stated intent) for either of those two objectives to really work anymore. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 20:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I *think*, could be wrong going from memory, but I *think* that from what Harriett has said in interviews, I believe, yes, the Mat / Tylin . . . . "relationship" . . . is supposed to be deeply uncomfortable, with the idea being that it's gender-swapping what was at the time in the 90's a pretty common and pretty commonly horrible story type, and also trying to prepare both the reader and the character for Mat's later kidnapping of Tylin. Wot: Matriarchy Woman rapes a man Other women down play it and laugh it off and blame the victim Victim is in denial/Stockholm syndrome Edit: aparmenideanmonad stated it way better than I could one post up. th3t00t fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 20:52
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th3t00t posted:Seems like he failed in his attempt rome Yes but have you met readers? They're like, illiterate.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:55
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That Perrin is a lot bigger than I thought from the first photos. Good choice imo.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:56
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He’s clearly not bothered by it since he shows affection for her at the end and it never effects him in any way going forward. If Tuon advanced on him and he just like ran away screaming because of it, I might be more inclined to forgive it. But it’s too long winded and doesn’t matter like too much of the series. Man a tighter set of books might have been amazing.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:58
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Invalid Validation posted:He’s clearly not bothered by it since he shows affection for her at the end and it never effects him in any way going forward. This is at least partly a Brandon Sanderson problem, there's some really ugly whitewashing going on with the Mera'din and Tylin in ToM.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:59
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I don't think it needs to be a joke or critique. IIRC that's sorta just how that city operated outside of mat/tylin. None of the locals give a gently caress; it's tied up tuesday.quote:Other women down play it and laugh it off and blame the victim
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Aug 18, 2021 21:00
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:IIRC that's sorta just how that city operated outside of mat/tylin. None of the locals give a gently caress; it's tied up tuesday. Are you sure because that sounds like critique!
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Aug 18, 2021 21:02
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Are you sure because that sounds like critique! You're normalizing! Now we are critiquing.
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Aug 18, 2021 21:06
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i get the feeling the show will probably do the whole mat/tylin ordeal as meant to be seen as a bad thing, because at this point they're probably aware enough to realize that trying to make it a joke wouldn't fly well for multiple reasons they have an opportunity to maybe shuffle around some details a bit and possibly help things land better than they might have attempted in the past, so for all we know they'll be given the chance to try for it
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Aug 18, 2021 21:31
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Johnny Joestar posted:i get the feeling the show will probably do the whole mat/tylin ordeal as meant to be seen as a bad thing, because at this point they're probably aware enough to realize that trying to make it a joke wouldn't fly well for multiple reasons The show has a chance to be brilliant if it manages to be "Wheel of Time: The Second Draft It Badly Needed".
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Aug 18, 2021 21:42
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Bad news - second draft is ghostwritten by Terry Goodkind.
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Aug 18, 2021 21:43
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Theres like a 0 percent chance any of the Tylin stuff gets adapted. The show is going to cut out tons of stuff or shuffle it around as is, no point adapting stuff people don't like. GoT didn't do Dany having explosive diarrhea in the show
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Aug 18, 2021 21:45
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instead, the explosive diarrhea scene will be given to a character in wheel of time. maybe padan fain.
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Aug 18, 2021 21:51
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Hearing how TV gets made I’m sure it’ll get put into the show and they’ll add a laugh track to it.
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Aug 18, 2021 21:54
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