|
Arcsquad12 posted:a loooot of top Zeon pilots died fighting Amuro and the green recruits Zeon threw into the battles at Solomon and A Baoa Qu made their higher spec machines perform poorly against the "good enough" GM. I know that's the common wisdom but I don't actually think this was true, because the only aces that Amuro killed were Ramba Ral, the Black Tri-Stars, Dozle and Lalah. Maybe M'Quve, if you want to count him as an ace despite the fact he was (a) a commander and not a pilot for the most part, (b) not even a particularly accomplished or famous fighter as a pilot given Char's reaction when someone tells him that M'Quve has personally sortied against the Gundam and (c) he wasn't even killed in the movie version. You could certainly count Char as being distracted, even if he wasn't killed and maybe lump Garma in too, even though it was the White Base that killed him rather than Amuro (since they're essentially the same for the purposes of this argument). Beyond that handful of people (6 to 9 people; depending on how you're counting it) I wouldn't count anyone else as aces. And even then, both Dozle and Garma were mostly commanders like M'Quve rather than pilots. Tokwan might have had a good unit in the Bigro, Denim might have had a name, Challia might have been a Newtype, but none of them were aces; they were just regular Zeon pilots. I don't even know that you could count Challia as that, since he didn't seem part of the regular military. It's worth bearing in mind that Zeon were supposed to be exhausted of resources during the show too, including good pilots. Hence Revil's "No soldiers left in Zeon" speech that inspired the Federation to keep fighting after he escaped captivity. Which is briefly mentioned in the animation, and was part of the novel too so was probably something meant to be part of their characterization all along rather than something added later. In that later material though, Zeon lost most of their skilled pilots in the opening weeks of the war as they fought the Federation at Loum, and especially during the defence of the colony during Operation British. So they didn't just start a ground invasion for metals or because they wanted to beat the Federation into submission; they started one because they no longer had the resources to wage a war in space themselves. The Federation might have had only a small force left in Luna II, but Zeon didn't have the ships or pilots to take it out. They didn't just leave it there because "meh, who cares". They spent months building up ships, suits etc too. And because there was no fighting in space, guys like Denim, Jean etc. that were stationed in space never built up experience and were just as raw as Amuro or the other White Base civilians to a large degree. The fact that in 0079 itself the fight against the Gundam in episode 1 is supposed to be the first ever mobile suit on mobile suit fight didn't help either. It's since been retconned, but even with retcons, most action was still on Earth rather than in space. Gaius Marius posted:Jerid is cool as hell, the contrast between Kamille and him is the core of the early series. And Kamille easily dispatching Jerid shows how much he's grown as a person Symbolically and literally. Jerid is cool for about 5 episodes, but Kamille has already out-grown him within a few episodes and Jerid just becomes less and less relevant over time without ever actually evolving or doing anything interesting again. There's a scene in episode 3 or 4 where Jerid hangs around outside a room after accidentally killing Kamille's mom so that when Kamille emerges he can make a backhanded apology and mock Kamille for grieving for his mother; after which Kamille initially goes to punch him again, but after Emma stops him, Kamille instead tells Jerid that there's no point in being angry at a soldier like him who was just following orders. Jerid now tries to start a fight and has to be physically restrained, while Kamille walks away. Kamille is already done with Jerid at that point, and it's only a handful of episodes in to the show. Their relationship never changes or evolves again past that point, even with both killing each other's paramours. And even then, Kamille no longer seems notably angry with Jerid specifically so much as angry at the war for being why it happened. So no, I don't think Jerid is cool and don't see that Kamille killing him in the last few episodes shows anything that wasn't established 45 episodes ago in a better scene. Jerid doesn't even do much in those episodes outside Kamille, beyond fail upwards while talking about how he wants to regain his honor through revenge. Amuro and Char's relationship evolved throughout 0079, with the show starting at a point where Char didn't care about the Gundam beyond seeing it as a stepping stone to his ambitions while Amuro was obsessed with beating Char to prove his worth to himself and the rest of the ship, where by the end, the situation is almost exactly reversed, and Char is obsessed with beating the Gundam because he wants to prove to himself that he's the better pilot, while Amuro just wants him to get out of the way so he can help his allies in A Bao A Qu and maybe kill the Zabis, who are the ones controlling the war in the first place. Char has gone from "it's the pilot that matters, not the suit" even though he can't dent the suit, to throwing all his allies and any technology he can get his hands on at the Gundam while praying to a dead woman for guidance on beating the Gundam. By comparison Kamille and Jerid never meaningfully evolve past a point established a handful of episodes into the show, which just isn't interesting. Yazan and Scirocco become more meaningful antagonists by episode 25 or so, and even then I don't think either had any great personal relationship or drama with Kamille and find both kind of flat; entertaining in Yazan's case, but still pretty flat. 25 is even overstating it, since Jerid isn't a major presence in a lot of those earlier episodes, and doesn't appear at all in some of them. Gaius Marius posted:I think you get what I mean though, The Titans are their own faction, and Neo Zeon coming in as a third party adds to the plot. Rather than them adding Zeon because that's what the fans expect. You might think I do, but I don't. Specifically, I don't see the difference between Gundam SEED Destiny using ZAKUs and the Titans using Hi-Zacks, or A-Laws in 00 being a reskin of the Titans while Zeta re-skinned Zeon itself. A lot of complaints have been made over the years that Banrise can't move on from the One Year War and while execs or some faceless entity is normally who is blamed I would personally say that Tomino is one of the major parties at fault, because he re-used Zeon himself so much. His first 3 Gundam TV shows and stand alone movie all involved Zeon, mostly revolving entirely around them. That set an expectation. He was happy to move on eventually, but if he's already established from the first sequel that Zeon will be involved then yeah, no poo poo that fans and producers share that expectation. It's not even just those first few entries to some degree though, because every major antagonistic faction he has used in Gundam has a lot of the same motivations i.e. control of Earth, environmentalism etc. The Crossbone Vanguard and Zanscare aren't Zeon, but they're motivated by a lot of the same basic factors. They use environmental concerns to rile up people while actually trying to take control of the Earthsphere for more personal reasons for example. It's a pretty low level thing that doesn't define them, but it's a common thread through them all. Tomino even reset UC's technology and civilization to keep the story bound within the Earthsphere. Twice. The Titans are basically Federation soldiers acting as Zeon. They use Zeon suits and Zeon weapons like the Colony Laser, commit atrocities famously attributed to Zeon prior to that point and even, as pointed out previously, have similar motivations in pushing people off Earth. Gaius Marius posted:I don't really see the comparison between Gihren and Scirocco on anything more than a surface level. Scirocco is specifically designed to show the way that Newtypes themselves can become monstrous even with their abilities. Whereas MSG shows how Newtypes are used as tools of war instead of advancing humanity. Zeta shows how Newtypes themselves can reject the better future for selfish means. It's entirely superficial, but that's because I don't think there's much to Scirocco beyond the superficial. You say that Scirocco used his Newtype powers to charm women for instance and I would reject that because he used basic charm to manipulate people and not any kind of Newtype power. I know it's often bandied about that he used mind-whammies on women, but no, he just used honeyed words. Which anyone, Oldtype or Newtype, can do. I would say that Haman does a better job of showcasing that even Newtypes can be awful people, both because she has scenes were she actively rejects Newtype understanding and because she's just a more interesting character outside that. Her relationship with Mineva is mostly built on using Mineva as a pawn, but there's just enough there to suggest some emotional involvement on Haman's part. Which makes her interesting. Her past with Char, fixation on him and the fact she seems to want him not to have a relationship for it's own ends but to have as a pawn because he rejected her in the past is interesting too. Scirocco on the other hand is mostly just there. tsob fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 16, 2021 |
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 12:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:12 |
|
|
tsob posted:
Even aside from "The Call of Darkness" showing some pretty suspicious moments, we constantly see Scirocco put his hand on people and then suddenly they stop questioning him. Mind whammies are clearly in play here.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 21:08
|
|
|
Scirocco having mental powers is so explicit the dude breaks Kamilles brain when he dies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
In my most recent zeta rewatch it was extremely clear that scirocco was using a combination of newtype brain whammies and plain old mundane psychological manipulation Jerid was completely manipulation though. At some point scirocco cashes in his jerid chip and expects jerid to come back absolutely livid at him, but instead jerid comes back and goes "actually everything is my fault for not being strong enough, would you like your boot licked some more?" And scirocco is so caught off guard that he just starts laughing the moment jerid leaves the room Jerid is really funny I love jerid
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 23:11
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Scirocco having mental powers is so explicit the dude breaks Kamilles brain when he dies. Having mental powers in general and having mental powers that you use to manipulate women in particular are two different suppositions. At no point did I say that he wasn't a Newtype, only that he didn't use his Newtype powers to control women. Which "well there's suspicious framing" or "he touches people and they go quiet" aren't really great examples of, because Tomino does not present Newtype powers subtly in general. When someone is using Newtype powers it's normally fairly explicit that it's happening. There's a literal bell sound attached to them in some cases. Zeta started the convention of Newtype's having actual auras that surrounded them as they talk about pressure, for another example. Touching someone and them going quiet isn't really on the same level; especially when it can just be explained as "charismatic person using physical contact to establish rapport".
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 23:14
|
|
|
tsob posted:Having mental powers in general and having mental powers that you use to manipulate women in particular are two different suppositions. At no point did I say that he wasn't a Newtype, only that he didn't use his Newtype powers to control women. Which "well there's suspicious framing" or "he touches people and they go quiet" aren't really great examples of, because Tomino does not present Newtype powers subtly in general. When someone is using Newtype powers it's normally fairly explicit that it's happening. There's a literal bell sound attached to them in some cases. Zeta started the convention of Newtype's having actual auras that surrounded them as they talk about pressure, for another example. Touching someone and them going quiet isn't really on the same level; especially when it can just be explained as "charismatic person using physical contact to establish rapport". so maybe something along the lines of reccoa suddenly being influenced by another person's willpower and having galaxy visions, shortly before becoming part of scirocco's harem? https://imgur.com/NYQP7py
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2021 23:57
|
|
|
the funniest part of reccoa's betrayal is her constantly saying to herself "a woman's place is finding Mr. Right. i need to go out and find Mr. Right" and then the guy who picks her up and carries her off is yazan they don't really follow up on it at all but reccoa betraying everyone for yazan's intoxicating manliness would've probably been funnier than her being added to scirocco's harem of women with exotic hair colors
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:01
|
|
|
i'd betray any of you for yazan's intoxicating manliness in a heartbeat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:04
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:so maybe something along the lines of reccoa suddenly being influenced by another person's willpower and having galaxy visions, shortly before becoming part of scirocco's harem? You mean the bit where Reccoa is the one experiencing some kind of Newtype vision? A thing that happens several times in that episode? A thing that's totally in line with how Newtypes normally work, sensing others they can't actually see and who aren't making any active attempt to contact them in any way, shape or form; akin to how Lalah sensed Amuro in the Texas Colony despite Amuro not knowing Lalah was even there or making any apparent effort to contact her. Is that Newtype mind whammies now? Did Amuro mind whammy Lalah?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i'd betray any of you for yazan's intoxicating manliness in a heartbeat. To be fair, it's been established you'd betray us for basically any reason. I think you suggested that Beecha's greatest flaw was his excessive loyalty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:12
|
|
|
that was probably someone else. i barely remember most of zz so i don't discuss it much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
tsob posted:When someone is using Newtype powers it's normally fairly explicit that it's happening. This is not true at all. There is a whole lot of stuff which falls under the guise of Newtype which is more subtle, to the point where arguments can be made as to the Newtype status of a character. The Newtype Flash and the seeing through time poo poo is on the extreme edge of things but you're not seeing visual effects for every Newtype interaction because they largely involve person-to-person connections happening in strange ways. Even beyond that "displays great charisma and ability to inspire loyalty in others" is pretty high up there on the list of powers possessed by Newtypes. Everyone from General Revel to loving Banagher is able to do such a thing and it's part of the reason Newtypes are a centerpoint of the OYW not just in combat but in leadership as well. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 00:46
|
|
|
half of char's newtype moments in zeta involve him staring out at a colony or whatever saying "i feel a powerful presence, is that amuro?" with no accompanying sound effect of extra visuals. dude just gets the newtype tinglies any time he's remotely close to kamille and this is never communicated through any means besides him talking to himself about it once in a blue moon
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:This is not true at all. There is a whole lot of stuff which falls under the guise of Newtype which is more subtle, to the point where arguments can be made as to the Newtype status of a character. The Newtype Flash and the seeing through time poo poo is on the extreme edge of things but you're not seeing visual effects for every Newtype interaction because they largely involve person-to-person connections happening in strange ways. Well, Gihren and Degwin weren't newtypes. Other than Char, Zeon had Newtypes more as lab rats than commanding officers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 01:22
|
|
|
tsob posted:You mean the bit where Reccoa is the one experiencing some kind of Newtype vision? A thing that happens several times in that episode? A thing that's totally in line with how Newtypes normally work, sensing others they can't actually see and who aren't making any active attempt to contact them in any way, shape or form; akin to how Lalah sensed Amuro in the Texas Colony despite Amuro not knowing Lalah was even there or making any apparent effort to contact her. Is that Newtype mind whammies now? Did Amuro mind whammy Lalah? wait is your read that reccoa was drawn to scirocco due to a newtype awakening that independently happened shortly after meeting him for the first time and directly led her to joining his harem of similarly unstable newtypes, but without scirocco's own newtype abilities having influenced that outcome in any way?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that newtypes undergoing their initial awakening become malleable to a degree, to the point where anyone with sufficient charisma might be able to sway them regardless of their own latent abilities.
Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Aug 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Well, Gihren and Degwin weren't newtypes. Other than Char, Zeon had Newtypes more as lab rats than commanding officers. That is true but it was also something that began to shift. Every Zeon after the first has been lead pretty much exclusively by a powerful Newtype with fanatically loyal followers. (and we're shown that the two people with Zabi blood, Mineva and Glemy, are also both Newtypes.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 04:31
|
|
|
To effectively manipulate someone you need to be able to understand them, this is what I mean when I say Scirocco is using his new type powers for ill. Being able to sense within someone's soul gives you power over them the same way an abusive partner has control over their supposed lover. Scirocco is basically Akio from utena. I do not think he has magical brain washing powers or anything of the type. All the people he manipulates are people with deep character flaws for him to exploit. With someone like Mouar it's far less effective because they don't have such a need for validation that someone like Reccoa has.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 05:03
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:To effectively manipulate someone you need to be able to understand them, this is what I mean when I say Scirocco is using his new type powers for ill. Being able to sense within someone's soul gives you power over them the same way an abusive partner has control over their supposed lover. Scirocco is basically Akio from utena. I mean, he has multiple scenes of people doubting and then just completely getting onboard at a touch. The fact that it's not able to totally control everyone just means it's got limits, acting more as a strong nudge than outright control. If you're already committed to something, then he can't change your mind, but if you're still unsure... well, he can help settle your mind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 07:25
|
|
|
Doesn’t Reccoa even mention in one episode that Scirocco’s pull is not only being a good wordsmith, but something unnatural and even a little against her will at first? I swear she talked about it super quickly in one episode to someone
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
Bloody Pom posted:It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that newtypes undergoing their initial awakening become malleable to a degree, to the point where anyone with sufficient charisma might be able to sway them regardless of their own latent abilities. Part of this is the connection thing, when you meet someone who just understands you (and you feel like you get them too ) in a way no one else has before you're probably gonna be more easily convinced by them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 01:49
|
|
|
i finished w and ew and it's one of the worst things i've ever watched f91 is also better than cca. the visuals in f91 are gorgeous and the characters (such as they are) are actually less annoying than in cca
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 09:44
|
|
|
Relin posted:i finished w and ew and it's one of the worst things i've ever watched With all due respect to Wing, that suggests you haven't dived deep enough into Gundam. I don't think Endless Waltz is any good, sure, but compared to IGLOO, it's a masterpiece.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 10:04
|
|
|
gundam wing is easily top 3 gundam tv anime. and the wing zero launch scene in endless waltz alone makes it better than literally every uc property.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 10:25
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I mean, he has multiple scenes of people doubting and then just completely getting onboard at a touch.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 10:27
|
|
|
I also didn't like Endless Waltz outside of the ending. There used to be a video on YT that spliced together the OVA and Movie endings to the tune of White Reflection and it was perfect. Although it is an incredibly hard choice between White Reflection and Last Impression But yeah, the movie itself is 100% superfluous and also boring, IMO. I heard some people didn't like the anime's ending? I thought it was just fine. And of course the Wing anime is my second favorite Gundam series. Nowhere near the worst.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 11:20
|
|
|
Endorph posted:thats just how tomino writes characters, especially women, especially in the 80s I'm kind of impressed at the lengths people are going to in this thread to try to argue that there's no way that Paptimus, a manipulative villain with massive psychic powers, could ever use his psychic powers to manipulate people. It was just a long string of coincidences.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 11:39
|
|
|
Endless Waltz rules. Good character beats and follow up on stuff from Wing especially with Heero and Wufei an amazing soundtrack and some of the best animation in the series. Wing Zero launch is a top five of all time Gundam scene. It’s a better movie then CCA Or F91
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 12:43
|
|
|
see i like EW better than the main series because it's just a concise story that is stupid and enjoyable in all the ways the series was, but without dragging me through 40 more episodes where they can't sustain the constant allegiance swapping or write compelling characters/arcs for most of their huge cast
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 13:08
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Even beyond that "displays great charisma and ability to inspire loyalty in others" is pretty high up there on the list of powers possessed by Newtypes. Everyone from General Revel to loving Banagher is able to do such a thing and it's part of the reason Newtypes are a centerpoint of the OYW not just in combat but in leadership as well. It's also a thing that people and leaders in general possess; not just Newtype people or leaders specifically. I also wouldn't call quite a few Newtypes notably charismatic. Katz springs to mind. Hathaway too, at least as a child. He seems to have more charm as an adult, but even then he's quite reserved and while Kenneth liked him, he was able to recognize him as a threat rather than being bowled over by some psychic jammer on his personality or anything. Gigi was attracted to him as well, but not unnaturally so and was happy to focus on Kenneth instead when she was annoyed with Hathaway too. In the case of general Revil he also had someone working to betray him in his inner circle; which doesn't inspire the idea that he had mystical charisma or charm. He's just a normal good leader going off things like that. Sayla wasn't notably charismatic either; certainly not in comparison to her brother. Nor was Sarah in Zeta. It's basically just the protagonist and central antagonist from a given story. Which, yeah, not shocking that they'd be charismatic when the story revolves around them. ImpAtom posted:That is true but it was also something that began to shift. Every Zeon after the first has been lead pretty much exclusively by a powerful Newtype with fanatically loyal followers. (and we're shown that the two people with Zabi blood, Mineva and Glemy, are also both Newtypes.) No, they haven't. Haman and Char were Newtypes (though the relative strength of Char's Newtype powers is debatable), but Delaz wasn't a Newtype at all and Frontal was a Cyber-Newtype. He also wasn't actually in charge of Zeon and instead he only lead it's military, the Sleeves, while Zeon was lead by Monaghan Bakharov; who there's no indication is a Newtype. Also, both Haman and Char had people within their inner circle that were working against them to some degree, such as Glemy and Gyunei. Hell, even Quess was only working under Char because Amuro wasn't paying attention to her and in an Evolve episode that Tomino directed back in the early 2000s, Quess gives up fighting Chan and goes to support Amuro against Char. So even she wasn't really loyal in Tomino's mind. Not only was Glemy close to Haman and ready to betray her, but she knew he was going to betray her at some point and was unable to stop it. She couldn't even keep the fake Mineva loyal, since the fake Mineva wanted Judau and Roux to take her away from Haman when they find her, while crying alone because she feels abandoned by Haman. ninjewtsu posted:half of char's newtype moments in zeta involve him staring out at a colony or whatever saying "i feel a powerful presence, is that amuro?" with no accompanying sound effect of extra visuals. dude just gets the newtype tinglies any time he's remotely close to kamille and this is never communicated through any means besides him talking to himself about it once in a blue moon The only scene I can think of that fits your description sounds like Char's first sensing of Kamille from episode 1 of Zeta, and not only is that obviously a Newtype moment but there's several things to key "hey there's a Newtype moment happening here!". There's a change to a more mysterious music and a specific sound effect that plays both as Kamille looks out into space and repeats as Char looks out at the colony at the very least to tell you what's going on. The same style of mysterious sounding music then plays later in the episode as Kamille stares at the floor of his detention room and sees through it to space. Like, I don't know how you can watch this... https://webm.red/pW0O ...and come away going "Yup, nothing about that scene indicates there's some unexplained phenomenon at work". ninjewtsu posted:wait is your read that reccoa was drawn to scirocco due to a newtype awakening that independently happened shortly after meeting him for the first time and directly led her to joining his harem of similarly unstable newtypes, but without scirocco's own newtype abilities having influenced that outcome in any way? As opposed to what? Reccoa independently awakening as a Newtype after meeting Scirocco while being directed by him? How is that any less coincidental? Or are you contending that he actively chose to awaken her, and then just did nothing with her Newtype power at all? That he talked to Sarah about training her Newtype powers several times, but never did so with Reccoa despite him knowing that she has Newtype powers too in that scenario; which he didn't in the show, since he tells an aide that Reccoa isn't a Newtype after she's brought to the Titans? Hell, he didn't even personally interact with her for a good while after she was taken to the Titans by Yazan, instead happily letting Bask and others use her. Also, what "harem of unstable Newtypes"? Is one girl a harem now? Nevermind that apparently Scirocco's mind whammies are pretty slow, since Reccoa mused over her attraction to him for several episodes while trying to get Char to pay attention to her and only left when it became obvious that Char wasn't interested in having an actual relationship with her. So is your contention that his mind whammy was "come to me if you feel like it, like if your love interest isn't returning your affection"? Cause that's some pretty weak sauce mind manipulation. Also, for the record, my contention is that she coincidentally awoke after meeting Scirocco and was drawn to him by his charisma in general and not because he used any Newtype power specifically to direct her; that Scirocco didn't consciously influence her at all. His Newtype power may have unconsciously swayed her a bit and made him more attractive, but Scirocco never used some kind of Newtype power to make her, or anyone, like him. The fact she awoke as a Newtype may not be coincidence either, since after Amuro awakened so did several other members of the White Base crew (like Mirai or the kids), though they were weak Newtypes, and several members of the Argama were Newtypes too. Char explicitly thinks it's possible too, telling Amuro at A Bao A Qu that he thinks Lalah is responsible for making Amuro a Newtype. She can't have been, since Amruo awoke on Earth weeks before meeting her, but Char think it's possible and there is at least some suggestion it's possible for one Newtype to unconsciously awaken others given the amount of Newtypes on the White Base and Argama. MechaX posted:Doesn’t Reccoa even mention in one episode that Scirocco’s pull is not only being a good wordsmith, but something unnatural and even a little against her will at first? I swear she talked about it super quickly in one episode to someone I don't think she does. The scene I do see a lot of people talk about in that respect is when she's reporting back to Bright after first meeting Scirocco on the Jupitris. There is what looks like a conspicuously blank spot in her sketches of the hanger when they're first shown because some lines aren't finished, but the sketch is shown again a second later and it just looks like a wall that doesn't have anything in front of it when those lines are finished. Bright asks her about the unit, and she says that she was in a hurry to leave and doesn't remember everything. Which could be taken as "he's messing with her memory", but is also factually true so might just be the truth. The bigger thing in that scene is that when Bright asks her, she requests the drawing back and then while looking at it she sees Scirocco smiling, puts her hand to her head and says she can't remember. After which Bright tells her to get some rest. Immediately afterwards though as Reccoa is floating away the narrator says that Reccoa wonders why she didn't tell Bright about Scirocco, making it obvious she DID actually remember Scirocco and just didn't want to tell Bright about him for some reason she's unsure about at the time. Which can be explained quite easily as "she was attracted to Scirocco even if she didn't recognize it at that moment". I skimmed through all of Reccoa's scenes between episode 28 when she's talking to Bright after meeting Scirocco, and episode 34 when Yazan captures her and didn't see anything like that at least. I'd presume if such a line was to come up then it'd come up during those episodes, and not before she's met him or after she's joined the Titans. Someone else is free to go through the episodes if they remember it though. chiasaur11 posted:I'm kind of impressed at the lengths people are going to in this thread to try to argue that there's no way that Paptimus, a manipulative villain with massive psychic powers, could ever use his psychic powers to manipulate people. It was just a long string of coincidences. I'm mystified that people think mental powers are the only way to explain a charismatic leader manipulating people, and just ignore that multiple people brushed him off with no sign of effort on either party's part or even a reaction on Scirocco's part to indicate he's been rejected despite the mystical power he's apparently bringing to bear. Also, it's not that I don't think he would, it's that I don't think he could, because I see nothing to indicate Newtype powers are even capable of literally altering another person's mind. Reading it, sure, to some degree, but altering it? Nope. I don't even think they're great psychics though honestly, because when Lalah and Amuro had a Newtype moment for instance, she couldn't understand why he chose to fight when he had no investment in the war and he couldn't understand why she fought for Char. They had to talk to each other to figure that out. They appeared to talk psionically, but they still had to hash it out rather than having an innate understanding of it or being able to read it from the other's mind. Lalah had no idea about Char's past either, and while she can see that he's emotionally vulnerable in some way when he returns from the Texas Colony, she has to ask him why and he tells her it's better not to pry into the past; at which point there's no indication she ever knew about it. The show trumpets perfect understanding, but that appears to be just more propaganda, or at least more the idea of what people think Newtypes are and less what they actually are. Which is a thing already in 0079, where multiple people hold different views on what Newtypes are, what causes them etc. RevolverDivider posted:Endless Waltz rules. Good character beats and follow up on stuff from Wing especially with Heero and Wufei an amazing soundtrack and some of the best animation in the series. Wing Zero launch is a top five of all time Gundam scene. I don't care much about Endless Waltz as a story or movie for the most part, and the "and mobile suits were never seen again" thing in the finale was silly but I do find it to be a more interesting and memorable finale to the series generally. In part because the Wing Zero/Altron fight is better than the Wing Zero/Epyon fight, but mostly because Relena abandoning the idea of absolute pacifism and getting people to stand up for what they want is just a way better end to Relena's story generally. Which just kind of stopped in the TV show. Or passed the burden to Heero to finish it out on her behalf. The film's themes about the purpose of soldiers in a peaceful society are nice too, even if they're not given too much focus. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 18, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 13:37
|
|
|
EW is good cause it's just a short story that's very pretty. also the scene where someone just stands there shooting a minigun and either duo or cuatre are like "i know this fighting style! it's trowa!" is very funny
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
dudermcbrohan posted:EW is good cause it's just a short story that's very pretty. also the scene where someone just stands there shooting a minigun and either duo or cuatre are like "i know this fighting style! it's trowa!" is very funny An abundance of reliance on bullets and plot armor!? Must be Trowa! that guy such a goof all that clown poo poo COME ON MAN
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 17:38
|
|
|
Endorph posted:gundam wing is easily top 3 gundam tv anime. and the wing zero launch scene in endless waltz alone makes it better than literally every uc property.  don't agree on "literally every UC property" but man, i rewatched zeta recently and i'm like 80% of the way through a wing rewatch and where zeta was a "man this show is way worse than i remembered" experience rewatching wing has been a blast
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 17:42
|
|
|
dudermcbrohan posted:EW is good cause it's just a short story that's very pretty. also the scene where someone just stands there shooting a minigun and either duo or cuatre are like "i know this fighting style! it's trowa!" is very funny The movie's up on YouTube for a few weeks through Banrise's official channel, so you can go straight to it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
Endless Waltz is interesting because for all that it works well as a final piece of Wing, it's also very much a "watch the characters from TV you like doing their thing on the big screen" anime movie in a way that stands out for Gundam works. I haven't seen Destiny to compare it with, but of other Gundam sequels that aren't just same title Season 2, it feels the most like it doesn't have its own distinct identity. Even A Wakening of the Trailblazer, the other movie sequel to a TV series, had a particular vibe to it that TV 00 didn't, whereas Endless Waltz really does feel like it's as Wing as you could get within a movie. The only thing really like it is GM's Counterattack, and it's kind of surprising that there's not been more of that sort of thing over the years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
Speaking of EW A lot of people don't like the wing zero custom, but boy it must have really connected with a lot of people because It's got model in essentially every grade, even the more obscure lines like the hi resolution line. I really think that one shot of it's launching in space is what sells it. It's a really good scene.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
It is pretty strange that a series as broad and long running as Gundsm is so comparatively sparse on actual films (discounting compilation films).
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:Speaking of EW A lot of people don't like the wing zero custom, but boy it must have really connected with a lot of people because It's got model in essentially every grade, even the more obscure lines like the hi resolution line. I'm pretty sure the Wing Zero Gundam Ver. EW is super popular, considering how much it is used. And it'd be weird if it wasn't, it's a super good design, and Glory of the Losers makes it even better by giving it the transformation ability it lost from the original Wing Zero in EW for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
Blaze Dragon posted:I'm pretty sure the Wing Zero Gundam Ver. EW is super popular, considering how much it is used. And it'd be weird if it wasn't, it's a super good design, and Glory of the Losers makes it even better by giving it the transformation ability it lost from the original Wing Zero in EW for some reason. Yeah I know it's popular given all the models, people really seem to have a love it or hate it reaction to it (I'm the former myself.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 19:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:12 |
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:It is pretty strange that a series as broad and long running as Gundsm is so comparatively sparse on actual films (discounting compilation films). I think It just comes down to Sunrise having the choice between making a movie or a OVA. And the OVA's just sold better back in the Rental days
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2021 20:17
|
|