|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:The legion that became the Iron Hands is originally from the British Isles so they had no humanity to begin with Wow, really? So much for purge the xenos
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
Syncopated posted:Salamanders even maintain contact with their families after becoming space marines right? What chapters retain the least humanity, Iron Hands, Black Templars? Bit of a difficult one as it's easier to count on one hand the chapters that maintain any kind of humantity. Even the first founding loyalist chapters are well beyond their humanity and live isolated from it. Salamanders are a unique case. The Ultramarines still have a functioning mini-empire that blends the human civilisation with the astartes closer to Guilliman's vision and MAYBE the Wolves in their own way as they still recruit from Fenris and keep traditions alive, but the rest pretty much ascend from their lives (usually taken as extremely young applicants) and have no memory of their origins. By 40k and the thousands of spinoff chapters there's even less human connection, with chapters left to their own devices outside of the Imperium. By the time you get to the space sharks and mad blood angel types you're dealing with monsters who you'll probably have to declare rogue and exterminate at some point
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:35
|
|
|
Syncopated posted:Salamanders even maintain contact with their families after becoming space marines right? What chapters retain the least humanity, Iron Hands, Black Templars? Super Special Double-Astartes boys the Grey Knights should be the easy answer, as they supposedly get actively memory-wiped if they pass training (though IIRC the protagonist of The Emperor's Gift does recall his past life as a Ravenhorn minor character?), and they lose their birth name, train under a number, and get a new name at the end, suggesting pretty brutal techniques. I think their more humble cousins the Exorcists might be a pretty good candidate, though, because going through what they do to pass training (get possessed by a demon and throw it out) probably leaves you pretty drat hosed up. Iron Hands are a solid call too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:35
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:The legion that became the Iron Hands is originally from the British Isles so they had no humanity to begin with How dare you imply that Britain is full of weird, inbred serfs that decided to completely isolate themselves and obsess over something from their past that they completely misunderstand and now exist as a nightmare caricature of themselves while doubling down on it and pretending to still be as relevant as they once were while hating outsiders? Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Aug 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:41
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:The legion that became the Iron Hands is originally from the British Isles so they had no humanity to begin with Ew
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:51
|
|
|
Part of what keeps the Wolves the way they are is their recruiting method. Every single one of them is a warrior who was willing to die fighting for their community, and did. They are one of the legions who wouldn't have trouble explaining why they were fighting the Crusade -- of course it was to make sure that the mortals have somewhere to live. For a Fenrisian, there's no other reason to go to war.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 12:53
|
|
|
A Spear of the Emperor movie might also work as a good starter, especially since it's a lot about looking at Marines from an outsider's perspective.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Goddamn if that's not a good way to contextualise the Space Wolves and the state of the Imperium at large Yeah I never really thought of it that way and it's right on the money. Dog_Meat posted:Hey, man... I have finite brain space and I've dedicated 30+ years of my life cramming it with 40k lore This is right up there with that image macro explaining the warp. Extremely good posting right now in the BL thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 15:27
|
|
|
Dog_Meat posted:Where were we... oh yeah, introducing 40k to casuals That checks out, I"m saving it. Dog_Meat posted:By 40k and the thousands of spinoff chapters there's even less human connection, with chapters left to their own devices outside of the Imperium. By the time you get to the space sharks and mad blood angel types you're dealing with monsters who you'll probably have to declare rogue and exterminate at some point I'm reading Silent Hunters right now, and apparently some of the Charcaradons do remember their childhoods. It's a fun book. The Space Sharks want an artifact the Dark Eldar stole, so off on the road to Commoragh they go ! There's a lot of really good drukhari POV material in here and all around solid writing. I'm enjoying it so far. I'll check back in when I finish.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:(though IIRC the protagonist of The Emperor's Gift does recall his past life as a Ravenhorn minor character? IIRC he has very vague memories in whatever the Space Marine analogue of dreams is. Like a vision of Ravenor's chair, but he doesn't recognize what it is. He only realizes it's the chair when his inquisitor friend researches his history for him and he's able to put 2+2 together knowing that he was found by Ravenor. wiegieman posted:Part of what keeps the Wolves the way they are is their recruiting method. Every single one of them is a warrior who was willing to die fighting for their community, and did. They are one of the legions who wouldn't have trouble explaining why they were fighting the Crusade -- of course it was to make sure that the mortals have somewhere to live. For a Fenrisian, there's no other reason to go to war. The Wolves are also unique in that they have Bjorn the Fell-handed, a pseudo-living direct connection to the Emperor, Russ, and the Great Crusade. I feel like knowing that they have their primarch's right hand man on ice has to have a mitigating effect on changes to the chapter. It's one thing to know that the ancients of your chapter may not like your changes, it's another thing entirely to know that you might find yourself explaining those changes to them in person.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:The legion that became the Iron Hands is originally from the British Isles so they had no humanity to begin with There's a great short story about a hive that was slowly being taken over by Nurgle daemons, and an Iron Hands squad shows up seemingly in answer to the PDF's distress call. The story follows them over the course of a few weeks, where the PDF, led by the Space Marines, make real progress in purging and clearing a big section of the hive. The humans all start to feel as if there might actually be hope and are totally inspired by the presence of the Iron Hands. Eventually they come to the source of the taint in that one section and fight and kill a greater daemon. Half the PDF is dead, but they feel like they might be able to win their hive back after all. Then the leader of the Iron Hands squad grabs some archeotech McGuffin that had been left in the room when the daemon moved in, and spins around and starts back the way that they came with the rest of the squad. The book ends with one Marine turning back and explaining that Mars had dispatched them to get the McGuffin, and that saving the hive was never part of their mission. The surviving PDF troops hear the sounds of more daemons approaching from deeper in the hive, and understand that all of their progress over the last few weeks will be lost now without the Marines. Their efforts and sacrifice were all in vain. The Iron Hands are dicks. Google says the story is "Flesh" by Chris Wraight. Super grimdark and 40K as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 01:49
|
|
|
Basically, the Wolves are huge hypocrites now, and were at least honest with themselves about their hypocrisy during the Crusade. Now they're the definition of self-delusion.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 02:19
|
|
|
Khizan posted:IIRC he has very vague memories in whatever the Space Marine analogue of dreams is. Like a vision of Ravenor's chair, but he doesn't recognize what it is. He only realizes it's the chair when his inquisitor friend researches his history for him and he's able to put 2+2 together knowing that he was found by Ravenor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 02:59
|
|
|
Paddyo posted:There's a great short story about a hive that was slowly being taken over by Nurgle daemons, and an Iron Hands squad shows up seemingly in answer to the PDF's distress call. The story follows them over the course of a few weeks, where the PDF, led by the Space Marines, make real progress in purging and clearing a big section of the hive. The humans all start to feel as if there might actually be hope and are totally inspired by the presence of the Iron Hands. Eventually they come to the source of the taint in that one section and fight and kill a greater daemon. Half the PDF is dead, but they feel like they might be able to win their hive back after all. Then the leader of the Iron Hands squad grabs some archeotech McGuffin that had been left in the room when the daemon moved in, and spins around and starts back the way that they came with the rest of the squad. The book ends with one Marine turning back and explaining that Mars had dispatched them to get the McGuffin, and that saving the hive was never part of their mission. The surviving PDF troops hear the sounds of more daemons approaching from deeper in the hive, and understand that all of their progress over the last few weeks will be lost now without the Marines. Their efforts and sacrifice were all in vain. It's a really good one. They're my favourite legion because they don't pretend to care at all. They're honest in their horribleness
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 03:03
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:The Blood Angels did have one until Malcharion killed Raguel the Sufferer for the second time in Soul Hunter.. The Iron Hands did too, but Ares decided to charge a titan on his own
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 03:04
|
|
|
Philthy posted:Helsreach was good but it was so hard to watch. A lot of the animations were kinda janky. I mean it was still better than most but when Astartes came out the bar was set for what a “commercial” 40k should look like. AoD is so dang close that it honestly surprised me. The dude isn’t alone anymore I guess so he can go a bit fancy now. Fair. It does get a *lot* better towards the end in terms of animation, but by then I was used to the strange animation. Khizan posted:IIRC he has very vague memories in whatever the Space Marine analogue of dreams is. Like a vision of Ravenor's chair, but he doesn't recognize what it is. He only realizes it's the chair when his inquisitor friend researches his history for him and he's able to put 2+2 together knowing that he was found by Ravenor. I've read Xenos, and got about halfway through Malleus, but I don't think I realized how far in the past those stories were, timeline wise. I also thought the 1st war for Armageddon was way prior to M41, but that's what I get for listening to me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 00:06
|
|
|
They do gently caress up a couple times in Eisenhorn by mentioning the Tyranids well before they are supposed to be in the milky way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:37
|
|
|
Time Door shenanigans/honestly there's so much work for the Ordo Chronos that a few minor continuity errors don't rate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:49
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:They do gently caress up a couple times in Eisenhorn by mentioning the Tyranids well before they are supposed to be in the milky way. Unless I'm forgetting a different time it happened weren't they using a magic warp door to jump around to different places and times to escape a collapsing witch house? It's not really a continuity error, if that's the only time it happens.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 04:54
|
|
|
thocan posted:Unless I'm forgetting a different time it happened weren't they using a magic warp door to jump around to different places and times to escape a collapsing witch house? Nah, thats the part that made me realize the continuity error. In Xenos Eisenhorn explicitly references the Tyranids as still having symmetrical shapes despite how alien they are (in contrast to the Saruthi). One of the short stories in The Magos also has him reference them by name.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 05:00
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Nah, thats the part that made me realize the continuity error. Yeah, its handled weirdly in Eisenhorn and Ravenor. Eisenhorn drops it like its casual knowledge centuries before it should be while Ravenor has some period-appropriate reactions to having a vision of some nids and sensing a hivefleet iirc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 05:04
|
|
|
Im halfway through Helwinter Gate and it’s OK? Did Chris finish this a long time ago maybe?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 08:26
|
|
|
Relevant Tangent posted:Time Door shenanigans/honestly there's so much work for the Ordo Chronos that a few minor continuity errors don't rate. Probably already covered, but the Ravenor scene is time-warp-door fuckery, but there's a throwaway line in the early Eisenhorn novel where he refers to the "vile tyranid". Perfectly forgivable in the grand scheme of 40k continuity errors though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 10:08
|
|
|
Feels real weird that the Tyranids are such a "new" faction, in-universe. What edition were they introduced in? 3rd?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 12:25
|
|
|
The Tyranids haven't really arrived yet, the Imperium has only run into the foremost tendrils scouting the galaxy. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 12:37
|
|
|
Pictures like that are cool but also demonstrate a poor understanding of galactic scale. That would be like 100 trillion tyranid for every guardsman. They'd collapse under their own logistical needs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 12:42
|
|
|
Kaal posted:Pictures like that are cool but also demonstrate a poor understanding of galactic scale. That would be like 100 trillion tyranid for every guardsman. They'd collapse under their own logistical needs. How does anything logistical work in Warhammer? Good luck to those Tyranids when they come up against a named Primaris Lieutenant.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 12:50
|
|
|
NihilCredo posted:Feels real weird that the Tyranids are such a "new" faction, in-universe. What edition were they introduced in? 3rd? Genestealers were def around in 2nd ed when I used to play and the codex tyranids was around 95. I'd imagine they were in by 3rd edition, but I'd stopped playing by then. I remember genestealers from the Space Crusade game and thinking they were a rip off of the Xeno. Despite being purple FUN FACT - Space Crusade also had the "android" that would later become the necron warrior model Brendan Rodgers posted:How does anything logistical work in Warhammer? Good luck to those Tyranids when they come up against a named Primaris Lieutenant. didn't you read the fan-made short story? One of the missing primarchs went off on a crusade to hunt them down, wiped out the entire species and he's driving the dregs back to the galaxy for his father and brothers to hunt for fun. Oh, and he can't wait to see what wonders the Imperium has now Dog_Meat fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Sep 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 12:54
|
|
|
Tyranids and Hive Fleets were in the 1st Edition Rogue Trader book, but they were pretty different from later versions - the only species of Tyranid described was what would eventually become the Termagant, and a Tyranid force was required to be at least 50% 'Zoats'. Genestealers were also in 1st Edition, but had no connection to the Tyranids. I think Tyranid Warriors first showed up in Advanced Space Crusade, and by the time 2nd edition came out, the Zoats had been abandoned, the Genestealers integrated in to the Tyranid faction, and most of the modern variety of Tyranid units were introduced in one form or another.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 13:07
|
|
|
Kaal posted:Pictures like that are cool but also demonstrate a poor understanding of galactic scale. That would be like 100 trillion tyranid for every guardsman. They'd collapse under their own logistical needs. They're a metaphor for the cold unfeeling vastness of space, its fine
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 15:16
|
|
|
I mean we don’t know what the BMR of a tyranid is and presumably they encyst in some way for long voyages but intergalactic space is enormous. Even if the nids absorbed and efficiently converted all of the biomass in their home galaxy, the overwhelmingly vast majority of it would be used up just surviving the journey to ours.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
The Hive Mind is basically a chaos god all on its own. It doesn't necessarily have to obey any physical laws while it's coasting between galaxies.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 15:38
|
|
|
Yeah the Tyranids aren't just psychic but are EXTREMELY psychic so alot of this stuff can be handwaved that way
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
Do the nids have any kind of warp equivalent? Or is it just genestealers riding space hulks and then calling out to the fleet who make their way across the galaxy in real space?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:I think Tyranid Warriors first showed up in Advanced Space Crusade, and by the time 2nd edition came out, the Zoats had been abandoned, the Genestealers integrated in to the Tyranid faction, and most of the modern variety of Tyranid units were introduced in one form or another. I've got a Zoat or two from back in the day. I should do a Tyranid Kill Team and use the Zoat as a counts-as Warrior.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:20
|
|
|
Dog_Meat posted:Do the nids have any kind of warp equivalent? Or is it just genestealers riding space hulks and then calling out to the fleet who make their way across the galaxy in real space? They can warp travel, but slowly. They don't travel on the currents of the warp, they just force their way through with the Shadow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
Angry Salami posted:Tyranids and Hive Fleets were in the 1st Edition Rogue Trader book, but they were pretty different from later versions - the only species of Tyranid described was what would eventually become the Termagant, and a Tyranid force was required to be at least 50% 'Zoats'. Genestealers were also in 1st Edition, but had no connection to the Tyranids. This was later retconned to be initial Tyranid incursions, with the Zoats being part of Hive Fleet Colossus, an extremely weird Hive Fleet comprised of what sound like Zoats, and who claim to be escaped slaves of a greater threat. Which is a pretty cool concept, like the Hive Mind was experimenting with more independent organisms but it didn't go all that well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 16:59
|
|
|
Miguel Prado posted:Im halfway through Helwinter Gate and it’s OK? Did Chris finish this a long time ago maybe? Did you read the first two books? It hits harder if you have all the backstory IMO.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
D-Pad posted:Did you read the first two books? It hits harder if you have all the backstory IMO. I have but it’s been ages, maybe I need to read them again and come back to the last book
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 17:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:01 |
|
|
Dog_Meat posted:Do the nids have any kind of warp equivalent? Or is it just genestealers riding space hulks and then calling out to the fleet who make their way across the galaxy in real space? If I recall correctly they have a specialized bioship that locks onto the target planet and is able to manipulate gravity to compress the space between the hive fleet and the target world. Its a much slower process than warp travel but is much more reliable, and has the added benefit of triggering shitloads of tectonic activity on the targeted world.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 18:29
|
|