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You mean like a hip belt? I think that’s one of those inventions that are so common that they’re hard to date (cause once you have any internal support to your pack, the hips are a super natural place to put a strap), so it’d basically be trying to document the invention of belts. Unless there was some pressing need to not have them, I’d assume they’re ubiquitous. But note I’m using words like “assume” instead of linking sources.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:20
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Old ALICE packs didn’t have hip straps so much as a pad at the small of the back and straps that went around the hips to keep it centered
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Oct 3, 2021 18:37
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I admit I might be using a really, really favorable definition where if you you have a thing wrapped around your middle that is attached to your pack, I’ll round up and call it fine. Which is less than I’d accept as my camping equipment and more like “if you have a sharpish bit perpendicular to a stick it’s an axe or an adze or whatever and we’re calling it a day”.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:52
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It doesn't count for credit unless it actually puts the weight on your hips, IMO. The transfer of weight makes the real difference.
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Oct 3, 2021 18:54
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Zorak of Michigan posted:It doesn't count for credit unless it actually puts the weight on your hips, IMO. The transfer of weight makes the real difference.
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Oct 3, 2021 19:57
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How about the military tumpline?
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Oct 3, 2021 20:03
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Zorak of Michigan posted:It doesn't count for credit unless it actually puts the weight on your hips, IMO. The transfer of weight makes the real difference. guide packs with some sort of load transfer have been around forever, but the padded, ergonomic "hip belt" is a GWOT innovation. the modern MOLLE ruck has one and is pretty good if set up properly, though fairly heavy, even compared to the older ALICE stuff.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:16
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hypnophant posted:guide packs with some sort of load transfer have been around forever, but the padded, ergonomic "hip belt" is a GWOT innovation. the modern MOLLE ruck has one and is pretty good if set up properly, though fairly heavy, even compared to the older ALICE stuff. I use my cousin's for hiking and camping and it's by far the best experience I've had carrying a bunch of crap on my back.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:30
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PittTheElder posted:I have a question that I originally asked in the Ancient history thread but got no answers: do modern army packs have those sweet sweet hip straps that allow you to offload the weight from your shoulders and on to your hips? Obviously this may depend on country/service. My anecdotal experience in the Marine Corps was an ALICE pack with a semi-padded hip belt during bootcamp, a MOLLE pack at MCT (abbreviated infantry training for all non-infantry Marines), and a SALLE pack when I hit the fleet. SALLE became the ILBE and was super comfortable as far as military gear goes ... until you have to wear it over body armor and sling a rifle. It's hard not to be a hot bag of gently caress at that point. It is not a coincidence that when you went on a hump you did so with an Alice, Molly, or Sally. I think they low-key went with the ILBE name to put an end to the casual misogyny. But they all had padded hip belts, even if the ALICE had to be "upgraded" to have one.
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Oct 3, 2021 20:45
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The British Army's main 100 litre bergen from the introduction of the PLCE system in the early 80's had a padded hip belt, but that was more of a marching order piece of equipment than combat order. Before then it was the 58 pattern and that had no official backpack.
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Oct 3, 2021 21:29
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Medium Tank T6 Big articles queue: Medium Tank T6, RPG-1, Lahti L-39, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi, Medium Tank M46, Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard, German tank building trends at the end of WW2, Pz.Kpfw.III/IV, E-50 and E-75 development, Pre-war and early war British tank building, BT-7M/A-8 trials, Jagdtiger suspension, Light Tank T37, Light Tank T41, T-26-6 (SU-26), Voroshilovets tractor trials, Israeli armour 1948–1982, T-64's composite armour, Evolution of German tank observation devices, Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles Available for request (others' articles):  Shashmurin's career T-55 underwater driving equipment T-34 tanks with M-17 engines ISU-152 Wartime and post-war anti-tank hand grenades  King Tigers in Hungary German King Tiger losses in December of 1944 in Hungary Small articles queue: Soviet tank camouflage, AA machine guns on tanks, IS-3 pike nose Small articles available: linked because the list is too long New small articles: Upgunning the T-37A and T-38 T-50 15 cm sIG 33 (mot S) auf Pz.Kpfw.I Ausf.B Medium Tank A7
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Oct 4, 2021 17:26
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Czech out ze Uhu (animated at the link) https://www.reddit.com/r/PixelArt/comments/q11vmb/pixelplanes_warming_up_the_owl_trivia_in_comment/
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Oct 4, 2021 18:53
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Xiahou Dun posted:You mean like a hip belt? Yeah, even back in the chainmail days, people would belt it around their waist to move some weight from their shoulders to their hips. It's been known as far back as people have worn heavy things over their shoulders.
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Oct 4, 2021 23:28
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aphid_licker posted:Czech out ze Uhu (animated at the link) is this person really making cozy ~vibes~ fanart of.... nazi night attack squadrons 
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Oct 7, 2021 23:52
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HookedOnChthonics posted:is this person really making cozy ~vibes~ fanart of.... nazi night attack squadrons Yes, but you can probably put away the pitchfork. He seems like he mostly just likes planes and his portfolio has loads of Allied warbirds and non WW2 stuff too.
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Oct 8, 2021 11:14
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Mr. Grapes! posted:Yes, but you can probably put away the pitchfork. He seems like he mostly just likes planes and his portfolio has loads of Allied warbirds and non WW2 stuff too. and how...his portfolio is really goddamn cool
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Oct 8, 2021 13:59
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Milton-Bradley's famous board game "Allies"
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Oct 8, 2021 19:37
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hypnophant posted:guide packs with some sort of load transfer have been around forever, but the padded, ergonomic "hip belt" is a GWOT innovation. the modern MOLLE ruck has one and is pretty good if set up properly, though fairly heavy, even compared to the older ALICE stuff. Edit: But as Foxtrot_13 says, this is a marching order kind of thing. Until chest rigs on plate carriers became commonplace, soldiers' hips were full of combat equipment and had no room for another belt. Siivola fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Oct 9, 2021 |
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Oct 9, 2021 10:37
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what was that trench spade with the hole in the blade
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Oct 10, 2021 15:20
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacAdam_Shield_Shovel
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Oct 10, 2021 15:29
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Milton-Bradley's famous board game "Allies" Team up as the the United States, United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to defend civilization from, well, that's not important, but work together!
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Oct 10, 2021 17:40
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It was a good idea at the time.
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Oct 11, 2021 02:00
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SeanBeansShako posted:It was a good idea at the time. ... it was good for lining the pockets of the minister who came up with them at the expense of the state, and that's about it. The thickness of steel that would be required to actually stop a 8mm mauser bullet would make any spade ridiculously impractical to use as a shovel. So they split the difference, and made it a little thicker, so it was 4 times heavier than a normal spade of a comparable size and it wouldn't stop a bullet.
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Oct 11, 2021 12:11
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That's been the idea behind a lot of military spending since we first tied a rock to a stick
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Oct 11, 2021 12:17
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Tuna-Fish posted:... it was good for lining the pockets of the minister who came up with them at the expense of the state, and that's about it. The thickness of steel that would be required to actually stop a 8mm mauser bullet would make any spade ridiculously impractical to use as a shovel. So they split the difference, and made it a little thicker, so it was 4 times heavier than a normal spade of a comparable size and it wouldn't stop a bullet. Comedy forum.
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Oct 11, 2021 13:25
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RPG-1 Big articles queue: Lahti L-39, American tank building plans post-war, German tanks for 1946, HMC M7 Priest, GMC M12, GMC M40/M43, ISU-152, AMR 35 ZT, Soviet post-war tank building plans, T-100Y and SU-14-1, Object 430, Pz.Kpfw.35(t), T-60 tanks in combat, SU-76M modernizations, Panhard 178, 15 cm sFH 13/1 (Sf), 43M Zrínyi, Medium Tank M46, Modernization of the M48 to the M60 standard, German tank building trends at the end of WW2, Pz.Kpfw.III/IV, E-50 and E-75 development, Pre-war and early war British tank building, BT-7M/A-8 trials, Jagdtiger suspension, Light Tank T37, Light Tank T41, T-26-6 (SU-26), Voroshilovets tractor trials, Israeli armour 1948–1982, T-64's composite armour, Evolution of German tank observation devices, Oerlikon and Solothurn anti-tank rifles Available for request (others' articles): Shashmurin's career T-55 underwater driving equipment T-34 tanks with M-17 engines ISU-152 Wartime and post-war anti-tank hand grenades King Tigers in Hungary German King Tiger losses in December of 1944 in Hungary Small articles queue: AA machine guns on tanks, IS-3 pike nose Small articles available: linked because the list is too long New small articles: BP-43 armoured train Pz.Kpfw.38(t) Ausf.E-G T-126 (SP-126) Sandbag armour Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 16, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 17:30
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RPG kaboom tank.
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Oct 11, 2021 18:17
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PeterCat posted:RPG kaboom tank. 
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Oct 11, 2021 18:24
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Milton-Bradley's famous board game "Allies" piL posted:Team up as the the United States, United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to defend civilization from, well, that's not important, but work together! Joke aside, I feel that there's a legit game to be made here, maybe the last days of WW2 where players have to co-operate enough to ensure that the Probably some horrid combination of Diplomacy and Risk that has to be played by mail otherwise it just descends into fistfights.
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Oct 11, 2021 18:29
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Elissimpark posted:Joke aside, I feel that there's a legit game to be made here, https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/132018/churchill https://reactingconsortium.org/games/yalta1945
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Oct 11, 2021 18:42
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I remember there was some dungeon crawling game where players have to work together to kill the boss monster, but they also have to finagle to be the one to get the loot at the end, so they fight hard enough to do some damage, but they'll pull back if they're worried somebody else may get the kill.
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Oct 11, 2021 18:52
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If you play 2 players on streets of rage, you can betray the other player to get a special ending once you get to Mr.Big
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Oct 11, 2021 18:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:I remember there was some dungeon crawling game where players have to work together to kill the boss monster, but they also have to finagle to be the one to get the loot at the end, so they fight hard enough to do some damage, but they'll pull back if they're worried somebody else may get the kill. Sounds like Munchkin
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Oct 11, 2021 19:11
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Milton-Bradley's famous board game "Allies" also i'll accept the razzing but do you really not see any daylight between a po-faced board game that mechanistically reinforces the idea that war involves killing and removing pieces from the board and cutesy 'lo-fi volkisch-hop to study and work to' fanart? and fwiw i find similar idealization of the allied experience equally off-putting--MASH is about the absolute floor of how 'domestic' i think war media should be, and Alda was (extremely correctly imo) very adamant that every episode had to have at least a little bloody surgery just for the reminder of where they were and what was happening to people all those animes that exist now about children driving panzers around creep me out too e: Polyakov posted:Would my sherman tank slippers be tossed on the fire in the Cthonic party government? i'm clearly the odd one out for the thread, i don't want to press any point here, but if you're curious the nuance i think i'm chasing is around media which paints soldiering as cozy, nostalgic, or desirable, so: slippers made to look like little cartoon tanks: fine, whatever pajamas made to imitate a tanker uniform: extremely gross HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 11, 2021 |
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Oct 11, 2021 20:07
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You're reading too much into things.
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Oct 11, 2021 20:24
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HookedOnChthonics posted:also i'll accept the razzing but do you really not see any daylight between a po-faced board game that mechanistically reinforces the idea that war involves killing and removing pieces from the board and cutesy 'lo-fi volkisch-hop to study and work to' fanart? and fwiw i find similar idealization of the allied experience equally off-putting--MASH is about the absolute floor of how 'domestic' i think war media should be, and Alda was (extremely correctly imo) very adamant that every episode had to have at least a little bloody surgery just for the reminder of where they were and what was happening to people Would my sherman tank slippers be tossed on the fire in the Cthonic party government? People find weapons have an aethetic draw to them for any number of reasons and sometimes there isnt anything further than that. War is bloody, horrible and ugly without exception but so are a lot of things in life and history and we dont think about that aspect of them all the time.
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Oct 11, 2021 20:26
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Elissimpark posted:Joke aside, I feel that there's a legit game to be made here, maybe the last days of WW2 where players have to co-operate enough to ensure that the There is in fact at least one board game that is exactly this and another game that is coming out that will be like this. Although this is probably best reserved for the wargame or boardgame thread over in trad games. The first is Churchill: a three player game where the USSR, USA, and UK try to balance wining the war with control over the post-war territories. If one player gets too far ahead in points then the second highest score wins instead (because the 3rd player decides to ally with them to balance things out) so you have to show restraint in how much success you have in the war. It's okay, I've played more than a few games, but it does have a "beat up one player" problem that 3 player games have. If you want more info on it then ask over in trad games. The other game is Downfall: Conquest of the Third Reich and it is in development. One player takes the USSR and the other takes the Western Allies. When the Western Allies are attacking the Germans the USSR player takes over the German forces for the defense and vice versa for when the USSR player is taking their actions. And yes, board games have had to find ways to deal with the "Who wants to play as Nazis?" problem for a long time. Some do it better than others. Once again though, not a line for this thread.
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Oct 11, 2021 20:47
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Ithle01 posted:The other game is Downfall: Conquest of the Third Reich and it is in development. One player takes the USSR and the other takes the Western Allies. When the Western Allies are attacking the Germans the USSR player takes over the German forces for the defense and vice versa for when the USSR player is taking their actions.
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Oct 11, 2021 21:07
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I feel like you could combine this into a hell of a Megagame. One group of players fighting out the last bit of the war. The other group playing diplomats trying to divide everything up. With both groups trying to get the others to do things to further their goals. Sure, taking that factory might get the British to give up something but it's also one of the last places with heavy resistance.
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Oct 12, 2021 02:42
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Ithle01 posted:The first is Churchill Well, gently caress me. That seems to be exactly what I was thinking of. On a more proper milhist note: I was listening to "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner" in the car with my 5yo (her pick), and ended having to give a child-safe explanation of warfare in 20th Century Africa and to explain why Roland may not have been the nicest guy. Which made me think - when did the general attitude to mercaneries change? Everyone loves them in Renaissance Italy and into the early modern era. Now - not so much.
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Oct 12, 2021 03:17
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