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poll plane variant posted:I hear this a lot about resin, I work in an industry where PPE is second nature because I'm basically wallowing in a hazardous goop for a living and I'm already welding and grinding in my garage. Is resin that significant of a hazard beyond what I'm already encountering in daily work/hobby scenarios? I feel like the advice is targeted at people who have never so much as picked up a paintbrush so it's really difficult to assess the hazard. There are definitely hobby processes I'm not comfortable doing at home because they generate a lot of heavy metal solutions etc, is resin more in line with this than more traditional stuff? (ie only for people who are sending massive externalities down the city sewer and taking years off their lives) Resin is an industrial toxic compound, yes. But how toxic can vary wildly depending on the manufacturer. Here is a decent-enough write-up about it: https://groverlab.org/hnbfpr/2021-06-13-3d-printer-risks.html William H. Grover posted:Not long ago, 3D printers were so expensive and rare that the idea of having a 3D printer at home seemed like science fiction. But today I have a 3D printer in my garage. You can also find 3D printers at my son’s middle school, my public library, and in the homes of some of my bioengineering students at the University of California, Riverside, who are currently using their own 3D printers to build class projects while our campus is temporarily closed.
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Oct 26, 2021 18:53
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They use UV resin for things like dental work and fingernails, is that different resin?
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Oct 26, 2021 18:59
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Resin is an industrial toxic compound, yes. But how toxic can vary wildly depending on the manufacturer. Yeah this is the sticking point for me, I can get in a ton of work trouble for improper dumping of chemicals in my personal life so I'm pretty aware of waste. This poo poo is 100% going down toilets by the gallon, isn't it.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:04
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Bucnasti posted:They use UV resin for things like dental work and fingernails, is that different resin? It's a singular resin formulation and dental offices that use this technology are using very expensive machines to properly cure the resin before putting it in a patient's mouth. I have no idea about nail salons but LOL if you think they give a poo poo about long term consequences for toxic chemical exposure.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:18
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poll plane variant posted:I hear this a lot about resin, I work in an industry where PPE is second nature because I'm basically wallowing in a hazardous goop for a living and I'm already welding and grinding in my garage. Is resin that significant of a hazard beyond what I'm already encountering in daily work/hobby scenarios? I feel like the advice is targeted at people who have never so much as picked up a paintbrush so it's really difficult to assess the hazard. There are definitely hobby processes I'm not comfortable doing at home because they generate a lot of heavy metal solutions etc, is resin more in line with this than more traditional stuff? (ie only for people who are sending massive externalities down the city sewer and taking years off their lives) the answer is yes, because all those other things you posted have no relevance
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Oct 26, 2021 19:26
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Having to deal with resins/hazards/safe disposal is the reason I’m avoiding SLA printing all together. It sounds like a huge pain in the rear end when things go right, never mind when there is a leak in the FEP or whatever. gently caress that.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:27
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Honestly resin printing isn't that bad as long as you have good PPE habits and ventilation but you absolutely need a dedicated space away from your living area for it.
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Oct 26, 2021 19:48
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Ghostnuke posted:the answer is yes, because all those other things you posted have no relevance This really isn't an answer though. The internet is full of people saying RESIN IS SUPER DEATH POISON PUBBIES KEEP OUT while resin printing in their bedroom and dumping the contaminated alcohol down their toilet.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:03
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Toebone posted:Honestly resin printing isn't that bad as long as you have good PPE habits and ventilation but you absolutely need a dedicated space away from your living area for it. I understand this, but how do you dispose of the gallons and gallons of contaminated alcohol? Small contract with the same companies a business would use? I never see pricing etc. discussed
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Oct 26, 2021 20:04
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poll plane variant posted:I understand this, but how do you dispose of the gallons and gallons of contaminated alcohol? Small contract with the same companies a business would use? I never see pricing etc. discussed You just put it outside and it evaporates, leaving behind a crust of dried resin. You can also filter and reuse the alcohol.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:16
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Class Warcraft posted:You just put it outside and it evaporates, leaving behind a crust of dried resin. You can also filter and reuse the alcohol. This is what I do, and one of the major reasons I dislike water washable resin, contaminated water takes forever to evaporate.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:29
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poll plane variant posted:Is the only reason to use FDM at this point the minimal mess if you aren't post-processing, and the cheap filament? It seems like tough resins are up there in material properties with PLA/PETG/ABS now but are maybe 3x the price. No, they're totally different processes with different benefits and deficits. Tough resins are pretty good, but they're still weak compared to an engineered thermoplastic that doesn't have to turn from a liquid to a solid with a few photons of UV light. I can almost guarantee that whatever blend of resin you're using to balance rigidity and toughness is still going to be weaker in most situations than the same part printed from real ABS or nylon. FDM materials don't degrade over time (or at least they degrade like 100 times slower than SLA parts do). FDM has a far wider range of material options than SLA. FDM can produce non-toxic parts and food-safe parts. FDM can produce anisotropic parts that are extraordinarily strong in specific axes and flexible or deliberately weak in others. FDM can produce fully unsupported geometry, ready to go straight off the bed. The "minimal mess" and cheap material that you're discounting might be a dealbreaking advantage in certain circumstances. They just aren't directly comparable. It's like saying "is the only reason to use a lathe at this point for long parts that won't fit in a CNC mill?", completely missing the point of why each type of machine exists.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:38
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Deviant posted:Y'all would recommend the prusa mini plus then? I want a second side printer to go with my Mk3s, but I don't have experience with cantilever or bowden design. Good move! Fun stuff right here: https://www.cati.com/blog/2021/10/solidworks-2022-whats-new-hybrid-modeling/ SOLIDWORKS 2022 will let you edit STL files in a hybrid solid-mesh environment now, so you can finally make those Thingiverse brackets fit your whatever. Not sure when it rolls out for the Makers offer, but you can get SOLIDWORKS + browser things for $100/year which is pretty rad. Hopefully 2022 will be available for upgrading soon.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:38
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Hello goons, I have been trying to make a custom curtain opening device. It only works the one way, having to be closed by hand, but releasing a cable that runs through the rings in the curtain, and is attached to the end of one side, when opening. I would put some sort of weight on that side as well, probably a noisy one to add to the alarm clock effect. I've thought of and modeled a kind of linear one-way latch but the mechanism involves having 2 jaws opening up in opposite directions at the same time. For the life of me, I cannot get what I've thought of to print at a decent amount of detail. It's mostly due to the size of the print, and maybe a tiny bit of elephant's foot still. After failing to convince myself that I would need to buy a resin printer, I'm now reconsidering the mechanism itself, but am not trained as an engineer at all. Are there maybe books or other resources that are just a bunch of mechanisms for this purpose, that I could maybe draw some inspiration from?
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Oct 26, 2021 20:51
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w00tmonger posted:I'll be honest, depending on what your looking to sell, print on demand is kind of the way to go. When I first started selling online, I tried a business model with having models printed ahead of time, and shipping out what I had quickly. If someone wanted something I didn't have on-hand it was fine, but it was going to take longer. It would be a great model for small inventory, limited catalog shops. I was able to deliver models very quickly, often getting them in the mail same day as ordering. I was more tolerant of machine failures because I didn't have orders pending while I fixed things. HOWEVER, within 9 months, the inventory became very hard to manage, and I couldn't keep up with my merchant plans. There was just too much to print and it wasn't sustainable for being part time. Also I ended up printing a lot on demand anyway, because there was too much to print and too few printers. So, yes - I agree print-to-order is much better unless you are only going to offer and produce like 20 things ever. biracial bear for uncut posted:I just discovered proof that everybody in this thread is a loving amateur and we really need to step up our game. What is this, a workshop .... for ANTS??
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Oct 26, 2021 20:51
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Yeah there are a poo poo ton of people commenting that joke where that was originally posted.
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Oct 26, 2021 20:55
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poll plane variant posted:I understand this, but how do you dispose of the gallons and gallons of contaminated alcohol? Small contract with the same companies a business would use? I never see pricing etc. discussed You develop your own in-house processing method to separate the alcohol-resin solution out into pure alcohol and cured, comparatively-inert cured resin plastic. My alcohol just goes around and around and losses are very limited. UV will cure the resin out of alchohol just as sure as it'll cure a printed model , so exposing saturated alcohol to a UV source will force the uncured resin to link up and precipitate out as a solid material that's easy to strain out. This can be as simple as setting your wash tubs in a windowsill or outside, stirring/shaking frequently to break up the cured UV 'skin' that forms preferentially on the surface . This cured resin can either be strained off the surface with blotter paper or one of those dished wire kitchen tools for winkling fried goods out of a deep fryer. It'll also just sink to the bottom if you don't skim it, and after enough accumulated you can gently decant the 'clear' alcohol on top out and into another container, giving the remaining goop at the bottom a final UV zap to make sure it's all good and crosslinked, and then you cnan throw it out as normal. This all sounds very complicated, but if you're using multiple wash tubs (you should), it just means constantly rotating between them- the dirtiest wash tub gets UV-treated and skimmed to restore its clarity and cleaning ability, then moves to the front of the line as the "initial' cleanest wash tub, everything moves down the line, and the former "in between'" tub is next up for reclaiming. Very little loss in the entire process, and you having a very clean 'finishing' wash (ideally augmented with gentle scrubbing with a toothbush or soth-bristle paintbrush) is an ironclad way to deal with poorly-cured/washed spots on your parts that stay tacky and won't accept paint. e: for the record, I use a three-wash process- an initial 'dirty' alcohol wash, then a 'clean' finishing wash, and finally a 'rinsing' water dunk. The water is important because it washes away any remaining alcohol residue, which will still have a little bit of dissolved resin in it. if you let the part dry from th alcohol dump it'll leave behind unwanted sticky deposits as the dissolved resin concentrates in a smaller and smaller blot as the evaporation proceeds. a quick water dip before the alcohol can dry will wash all that way. Once in a while I cure my water tub alongside the offending saturated alcohol bath, just to get any resin out, but tbh ive never gotten enough to really skim, there's very little resin left by that point in the process. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 00:21
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a few niggles hereSagebrush posted:FDM materials don't degrade over time (or at least they degrade like 100 times slower than SLA parts do). Sagebrush posted:FDM has a far wider range of material options than SLA. In terms of thermoplastics and colour/appearance, the things most users care about I'd agree, but SLA has its own niches that FDM (afaik) can't play ball in. For example, my Flex100 is like soft rubber and can be absurdly distorted without cracking or failure- and that property isn't really linked to temperature. I don't believe there's anything equivalent in FDM filaments because stiffness seems inherently tied to temperature in thermoplastics ('m rusty on my material sciences so double-check this one) The other thing to remember is that resins are inherently composite materials made of various particles embedded in a matrix, and this opens up a lot of doors. Adding your own pigments is the obvious one, but people are also experimenting with some extremely wild composite SLA resins- for example, if you can suspend graphite filler in resin while printing , you can produce prints that are natively electrically-conductive -as well as- serving as exceptional bearing materials. again, not relevant to most users, but you can make significant aesthetic/engineering modifications to resins that you just can't with filaments. Sagebrush posted:FDM can produce non-toxic parts and food-safe parts. Sagebrush posted:FDM can produce fully unsupported geometry, ready to go straight off the bed. This is also the case for SLA, although i'll admit the no-support geometries available to you are definitely limited in comparison. I do a lot of low-and-flat printing, for flat-backed dies and molds, and I use a support maybe once every five prints. This is not typical, of course, if you want to make miniatures or sth [/quote] but yeah, it's worth emphasizing that resins just aren't in the same leage as FDM for strength or toughness, you can get sort of close with engineering resins but then you're paying idk 4-5x in equivalent feedstock. The way I look at it is this- FDM printers are ideal for making simple functional larger-format devices intended to be used as such fresh off the printer. LCD/SLA printers are ideal for either 1) very high-detail objects with no mechanical requirements, and 2) as an intermediate step in a broader manufacturing process, and if you want touch functional goods starting with resin, you get the best results by treating it as if you're making a master/prototype which you can then replicate with a better material. I use my resin printer to make metal-casting molds, so my end results are way stronger than any hobbyist's 3d printed output. but designing good molds is a lot more involved than designing the part itself, so, you know, tradeoffs . Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 00:42
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I tried updating my Mars Pro firmware as per the latest Chitu free update, and it involves running several non-print files off a USB drive in order, as if you were queueing up a standard print. The first file, with an .SH4 extension, claims a successful installation in a moment or two, but also sends my build plate rapiding up towards the top of the pillar, completely ignoring the limit switches and stalling out the motor until I can manually stop it or depower the machine. Attempting to use the next two upgrade files just gets a "file missing!" error. What's goin on here, and is there a less stupid/weird way to upgrade my firmware?
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Oct 27, 2021 05:13
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Ambrose Burnside posted:You: don't dispose of it, not really. I have used 2 galllons of fireplace fuel (iirc a 95/5 ethanol/isopropanol blend) for at least 100 parts, most of them engineering parts that require very high cleanliness and any resin remnants on the part post-cure usually means it's unusable. Excellent advice. I will just add that I recommend to NOT do the solution curing in a wash n cure tank unless you don’t care if gunk gets stuck to the rotors and sides. I pour mine into some 2 gallon clear plastic sealable containers (for like cereal an poo poo) before I do that.
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Oct 27, 2021 13:55
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poll plane variant posted:I understand this, but how do you dispose of the gallons and gallons of contaminated alcohol? Small contract with the same companies a business would use? I never see pricing etc. discussed I've been resin printing for a little under a year and I've never disposed of any contaminated IPA. You can cure the stuff that's too dirty and it'll separate out, after which you can filter and reuse it. I've seen people say they can do this two or three times, but I have no idea what those people are doing wrong because I've been reusing the same gallon or so of IPA this whole time and it ends up pretty much crystal clear each time. Note that I'd still treat the used and filtered resin as hazardous, so if I did need to get rid of it I would cure and evaporate it. I'm sure I'm not getting everything out, even if it's clean enough to serve its purpose. That said, I'm really lazy and I like my clean-up process to only require a few minutes of active effort so I don't use Ambrose's method of skimming. I just have more containers than I need and I leave the dirty ones sitting on a windowsill for 1-2 weeks. That's enough time that the resin not only separates but settles down to the bottom in a gross mess that reminds me of the bacterial mats people use to make kombucha. I shake it every now and then if I remember so it doesn't stick to the sides of my mason jars. Then I just pour it through a gigantic funnel (a dollar store pour-over coffee thing) with a coffee filter and end up with clear IPA. Since I'm lazy I try not to pour the goop at the bottom into the funnel since that jams it up and makes the whole process take way too long. I just leave it at the bottom of the jar with maybe a few teaspoons of IPA, let that evaporate off, and then dump the cured resin in the trash. Like everyone else is saying, this sounds like a complicated mess, but it's really not at all. My workstation is a folding table with a <$1 tablecloth and some slap mats on it. I also have some really cheap plastic bins with lids that take waste like used coffee filters, paper towels, etc. My funnels and other dirty stuff also go in one of those bins. If I'm printing a lot, then every few days I'll seal the bins up and put them out into the sun so everything inside gets crusty and cured. The slap mats also go into the sun if they get dirty, mostly because I'm trying to minimize paper towel waste. My biggest concern is actually the amount of waste generated by used gloves. I've reduced that somewhat by having a few pairs of heavy-duty butyl gloves that I reuse when I'm 99.9% sure I won't be getting resin on my hands anyway. So I use those gloves when I'm adding resin, taking things off the build plate with tweezers, etc. I only use disposable gloves when I'll definitely be coming into contact with the resin, like removing supports or putting things in the curing station. Then those gloves go in the contaminated bin and get blasted with sunlight for a while before they go into the trash.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:25
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When my print finishes, I pick it up with my bare hands and use it directly in its end-use application without any processing.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:28
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Post-processing small, high-detail models from an FDM printer is way, way more labor-intensive than any part of the cleaning/curing process with resin. Also requires a lot more pre-processing work in the slicer.
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Oct 27, 2021 16:35
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Pretty sure that if your use case is generating high-detail miniature prints that you're going to be spending a lot more in time/money/labor than just buying said miniatures from whoever originally created them. Because I've literally never heard of a high-detail miniature printing use case that wasn't "The folks that own (warhammer/Disney/whatever video game/anime/tv show) want too much for their stuff (what's that? My labor is worthless!)"
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Oct 27, 2021 18:23
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I mean, I resin printed an entire squadron of legally-distinct-far-future-space-women-with-guns in an hour and the post work consisted of wash, pop supports, and glue together. Went real quick and they look tabletop quality. this one's arm fell off when i dropped her, but that's my fault. looks fine for the amount of work i put in.  Also, the marring on her loin cloth is where I broke it and glued it back together. They are slightly more brittle than standard plastics. Deviant fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 18:28
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Pretty sure that if your use case is generating high-detail miniature prints that you're going to be spending a lot more in time/money/labor than just buying said miniatures from whoever originally created them. Nah, that's not my use case. My use-case for high-detail miniature printing is "Nobody is making the types of custom miniatures that I want to buy, now I can print them myself". I'm completely aware that my time and effort is valuable and I still buy plastic minis when what I want is available, but my interest in the hobby is customization an creating my own models so 3d printing is perfect for my needs.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:32
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Pretty sure that if your use case is generating high-detail miniature prints that you're going to be spending a lot more in time/money/labor than just buying said miniatures from whoever originally created them. There are also a ton of minis that just wouldn't be made if not for design studios. c.f. 
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Oct 27, 2021 18:36
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I use 1-2 pieces of paper towel to wipe down the build plate, 1 pair of gloves per print. The wash and cure system that will take the whole build plate really makes it simple. I still need add a spare alcohol container for general clean-up, but so far, it's far easier than I expected.
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Oct 27, 2021 18:41
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Pretty sure that if your use case is generating high-detail miniature prints that you're going to be spending a lot more in time/money/labor than just buying said miniatures from whoever originally created them. I see you've never looked at games workshop prices. Also warhammer minis come unpainted
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Oct 27, 2021 19:00
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If you're a historical wargamer--and especially if you play WW2 wargames--3d printing is an absolute godsend for you, because you can literally print out whatever you want at whatever scale you want, and have zero worries about copyright infringement. It's still mostly tanks at the moment, but more and more creators are starting to do infantry and various other weapons at the usual scales, so you only have to spend a few bucks at the start and then you can print as many Axis and/or Allied forces as you desire. E: regarding the time vs. money debate: last night I printed out a 1/100 scale Su-76, for use in a game of Chain of Command. If I wanted to, I could print out some more at that scale and use them in Flames of War. Or I could scale it up to 1/72 or 1/56 or whatever for use in games that support those scales. I got the file off of Thingiverse, so it only cost me the time to support and slice and print the file (which printed while I was doing other stuff), and about 20 minutes or so of cleanup and post-processing time; the resin probably amounted to like less than 50 cents in terms of money. I don't consider that to have been an unreasonable chunk of time or expense for what I get in return, especially with being able to print it in one piece so there's no assembly required. Sydney Bottocks fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 27, 2021 |
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Oct 27, 2021 19:07
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There are also a lot of people out there that are Money Poor and Time Rich.
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Oct 27, 2021 19:09
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Additionally, once I've made something once, I can probably make it again easily with the project file. I could start up more of those space ladies with two clicks. I've gotten in the habit of saving the 3mf or equivalent for difficult prints, like this motherfucker:
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Oct 27, 2021 19:34
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God dammit I've been resin printing for years now and I JUST realized I could use a handicap/assistance bar that you use in the shower as a holder for the lid on the printers.
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Oct 27, 2021 19:57
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Sydney Bottocks posted:a 1/100 scale Su-76 $10.49 on Amazon quote:1/72 $21.99 same place quote:1/56 This gets a bit more expensive (about $44 here but I'm sure there are less expensive/probably more legitimate/cheaper options on ebay or something), but you're getting into larger and larger volumes of plastic, too. I mean, sure, it gets closer to being worth it the larger you print it, but how much does your labor time increase as you scale up on a detailed object? Maybe I put too much value on my time, but anything smaller than 1/56 scale for something the size of the SU-76 in real life wouldn't be worth my time, assuming it would take the same amount of time for me as it would for you.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:30
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Pretty sure that if your use case is generating high-detail miniature prints that you're going to be spending a lot more in time/money/labor than just buying said miniatures from whoever originally created them. That's certainly true for a lot of people, but as someone who sells 3D printed minis for a rate that is pretty much the same or more expensive that the going rate for conventional minis I can tell you a ton of people are looking at 3D printed minis because of the variety and uniqueness that is available to them (regardless of price). There's more than 300 mini patreons available now, and most release 10+ models each month (with some releasing up to 50). You're talking about thousands of new and unique designs being made every single month.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:33
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Paradoxish posted:My biggest concern is actually the amount of waste generated by used gloves. I've reduced that somewhat by having a few pairs of heavy-duty butyl gloves that I reuse when I'm 99.9% sure I won't be getting resin on my hands anyway. So I use those gloves when I'm adding resin, taking things off the build plate with tweezers, etc. I only use disposable gloves when I'll definitely be coming into contact with the resin, like removing supports or putting things in the curing station. Then those gloves go in the contaminated bin and get blasted with sunlight for a while before they go into the trash. How do you keep your butyl gloves in good shape? I tried that but they become tacky and stay tacky forever no matter how much I clean them with alcohol, it makes handling stuff with any delicacy impossible so I've sidelined them. If contamination of resin and wash wasn't an issue I'd hit em with talcum powder or something, but alas
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Oct 27, 2021 20:42
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biracial bear for uncut posted:$10.49 on Amazon you realize those model kits are more labor intensive than a one-piece print
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Oct 27, 2021 20:45
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biracial bear for uncut posted:$10.49 on Amazon You're going to spend more time prepping, fitting and filling gaps on those cheap armor kits than you ever would cleaning and prepping similar 3d resin models. Thing is, that's what some people want to do, building a beautiful model out of a crap kit is a common challenge people in the scale modeling thread take on Other people just want something they can paint and put on the tabletop, for them 3d printing can be a positive time/money investment, especially when you factor in that most wargames want more than one of each unit. I've been sculpting my own fighters for a custom X-wing campaign I play in. Would it be more efficient for me to use that time on something else and just buy official minis? Yes, Would doing that give me the same satisfaction as having a completely unique starfighter on the table during games? Hell No.
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Oct 27, 2021 20:51
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biracial bear for uncut posted:
 This cost me maybe 10 minutes, including downloading, slicing and post...and about $0.20 in resin. Add gloves, alcohol, add another say, $0.50. A full build plate full of 28mm miniatures, I don't know..$4-5 of resin? The GW equivalent: ~$70.
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Oct 27, 2021 21:06
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Bucnasti posted:You're going to spend more time prepping, fitting and filling gaps on those cheap armor kits than you ever would cleaning and prepping similar 3d resin models. This is going to go back to whether a given person thinks the PPE involved in a resin print is worth whatever cost they think they're saving if licensed merch is available for a thing (or unlicensed merch on some Etsy store, in the case of a bunch of Star Wars kits). I think it's only worth it if you're scaling up some kind of production process (or if the process itself is what you think is worth it), because the cost of a printer + PPE + wash and curing stations + disposal is far in excess of a modest collection of models.
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Oct 27, 2021 21:09
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