MarcusSA posted:

Hell someone in the other thread had members from the PRC go to his wife’s family’s house and demand her paperwork (including a copy of her U.S. passport) and she hasn’t lived in China for 10 years.

no hay camino posted:

Yeah, and I can only imagine some Chinese people feel like they're between a rock and a hard place

GlassEye-Boy posted:

No, we feel like Americans are loving gullible idiots. Don't speak for us you jackass.

This whole discussion is a circle jerk of conspiracy theories and pretty blatant racism. Par for the course for the D&D China thread.

quote:

With tourists stranded at vacation spots, major cities under lockdown and whole train-loads of passengers placed in quarantine, Chinese authorities have enlisted vast swaths of the population to track down and smother the country's third outbreak of the delta variant this year.

On Friday, the National Health Commission reported 48 symptomatic coronavirus infections from local spread, bringing the number of confirmed cases from the latest outbreak to more than 300 people across 14 provinces.

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In many countries, those kinds of numbers would be untroubling or even a cause for celebration. But not in China, which remains steadfastly committed to eliminating the virus while most of the world shifts toward mitigation.

The arrival of the more transmissible delta variant in China earlier this year only served to strengthen the Chinese Communist Party's confidence in its "zero covid" approach and pride in its ability to mobilize the masses to stamp out outbreaks.

Now, authorities have once again launched something akin to a nationwide manhunt to restrain the virus by tracking down the transmission chain and quarantining anyone with exposure - no matter how fleeting and irrespective of whether they had been vaccinated. (taking contact tracing seriously, a nationwide manhunt)

On Thursday, authorities halted two high-speed trains traveling to Beijing because of a single passenger on each who was deemed a close contact of a confirmed case. Despite no one on board being confirmed as a carrier, all of the nearly 350 passengers were put in centralized quarantine.

Chinese state media has released maps with bright red dots showing every city or town where cases have been confirmed, as well as intricate flowcharts with a jumble of arrows to illustrate transmission.

In a bright red square at the center of one map sits Ejin Banner, a northeastern county of 36,000 bordering Mongolia, where one of the longest chains of infections began. Since the first cases were confirmed, more than 10,000 tourists have been stranded in Ejin, a popular destination in the Gobi known for picturesque red-leaved desert poplars in the fall.

The Inner Mongolia government on Thursday said it would strive to get everyone home within three to five days, if they were proven healthy, using a system of end-to-end management to ensure they remain under observation on arrival.

Although the Chinese authorities have largely been successful in securing public buy-in for the elimination approach, it is not always popular in places where lockdowns have repeatedly disrupted daily life, such as Ruili, a border town in southwestern Yunnan that has endured five lockdowns this year. (not popular with who??)

After Ejin Banner, lockdowns were also imposed in Lanzhou, a northwestern city of 4 million and the capital of Gansu province, and the northeastern Heihe, a border town adjoining Siberia, where neighborhood committees prevent outsiders from entering residential compounds and villages.

In practice, containment measures often vary significantly across regions, with some local authorities focusing on theatrical but ineffective measures like using drones to spray disinfectant, often releasing promotional videos of their efforts.

Some of the strictest measures have been implemented in Beijing, which is preparing to host a meeting of top Chinese Communist Party leaders as well as the Winter Olympics in February. In areas of the capital deemed to be at risk, public transportation has been curtailed and tourism halted.

Local authorities have also meted out severe punishments for those who fail to comply with containment measures, with Beijing police on Wednesday announcing 19 criminal investigations over individuals suspected of violating epidemic-related laws.

In one case featured in state media, a trucker driving a cargo of frozen goods into the city from neighboring Hebei province was detained along with his company manager after police discovered they had forged a negative coronavirus test.

"At the time we were in a rush to deliver the goods and didn't realize this was such a serious matter," the driver's boss said in an interview with a local television channel. "We cased trouble for everyone. I hope you can all not do as we did and respect epidemic control policies."

In case the message was unclear, Chinese state broadcaster CCTV on Wednesday released an interview with a Beijing-based lawyer in which he explained that failure to follow coronavirus protocols could constitute "endangering public safety in dangerous ways" - a crime, he added, that carries the death penalty.

SlothfulCobra posted:

One of the top forms of bias against foreigners is the concept that they are somehow loyal agents for their homeland (or their ancestral homeland in the case of later generations who are just american citizens). People were afraid somehow that JFK was taking orders from the pope, and some people accuse jews of being all in on a massive conspiracy or all getting marching orders from Israel. The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia for a long while maintained some kind of separation from the Patriachate of Russia because it didn't want to deal with how much control the Russian/Soviet state had over the Russian Orthodox Church (to the point where there were KGB agents infiltrating high levels of the church).

Turning a conspiracy theory into a more reasonable suspicion by enforcing expat loyalty is a real bad thing.

Alchenar posted:

I love (well not really) how there's a string of three posts how this widespread behaviour by the CCP is apparently the thread being racist and credulous, but with absolutely no counter-narrative or sourcing. Just tankies yelling at clouds and making GBS threads up the thread.

Pharohman777 posted:

You think all these intimidation incidents are conspiracy theories?

no hay camino posted:

Yeah, and I can only imagine some Chinese people feel like they're between a rock and a hard place

Alchenar posted:

I love (well not really) how there's a string of three posts how this widespread behaviour by the CCP is apparently the thread being racist and credulous, but with absolutely no counter-narrative or sourcing. Just tankies yelling at clouds and making GBS threads up the thread.

30.5 Days posted:

If you are arguing that chinese people are, at any meaningful rate, being pressganged into acting as spies for their homeland, then you are arguing chinese people, at a meaningful rate, cannot be trusted. It doesn't really matter what the "but" is there, that is a bad thing to say.

Alchenar posted:

That's not the claim though.

Alchenar posted:

I love (well not really) how there's a string of three posts how this widespread behaviour by the CCP is apparently the thread being racist and credulous, but with absolutely no counter-narrative or sourcing. Just tankies yelling at clouds and making GBS threads up the thread.

GlassEye-Boy posted:

This whole discussion is a circle jerk of conspiracy theories and pretty blatant racism. Par for the course for the D&D China thread.

Alchenar posted:

That's not the claim though.

e: I mean you are arguing right now that you would prefer not to look at or believe any evidence of CCP intimidation of expats worldwide because you would rather not think through any of the implications of that or how Western nations might have to respond to deliberate alienation attempts by the CCP. That doesn't really leave us much shared reality to discuss.

quote:

Rebecca Kelliher
Oct 28, 2021Updated Oct 29, 2021

A recent national survey of scientists at U.S. colleges and universities has revealed a pattern of racial profiling among scientists of Chinese and Asian descent.

The study underscored a climate of fear as the U.S. government investigates more scientists of Chinese descent suspected of espionage, though such cases have repeatedly been dismissed. In addition, the study showed such profiling has slowed global collaborations, jeopardizing the country’s competitiveness.

“This is a story of scientists who feel like their work is being compromised, who fear largely that they will be charged and jailed and investigated,” said Dr. Jenny Lee, professor of educational policy studies and practice at the University of Arizona. Lee is one of the study’s authors.

She and her research team partnered on the study with Committee of 100, a nonprofit organization of leading Chinese Americans. This summer, the researchers sent a blind survey to scientists both of Chinese and non-Chinese descent, including faculty, postdoctoral fellows, and graduate students. Across the country, 1,949 scientists responded.

“We kept hearing anecdotally about Chinese American scientists and Chinese scientists being fired without cause or leaving the U.S. because it felt hostile or stopping their interactions with China out of fear,” said Zhengyu Huang, president of the Committee of 100. “But we wanted a way to survey scientists and see the trends, so we decided to do this research.”

Titled “Racial Profiling Among Scientists of Chinese Descent and Consequences for the U.S. Scientific Community,” the study found that scientists of Chinese and Asian descent reported far more racial profiling from the U.S. government, greater difficulty in securing research funds, and heightened fear of surveillance by the U.S. government compared to non-Asian scientists.

“The numbers completely bore out the anecdotes,” Huang said. “If we talk about a new Red Scare, this is it.”

Lee added that the research team anticipated some evidence of racial profiling. But she said that she was surprised at just how stark the differences were between scientists of Chinese descent and those who were not.

“There was also no significant difference between U.S. citizens of Chinese descent and Chinese citizens, so this is racial profiling that is also affecting Americans,” said Lee.

She and Huang noted that the past few years have brought policies reflecting greater suspicions of the Chinese government. In 2018, the Department of Justice launched the China Initiative with the intent to curb economic espionage and protect national security. But under the Initiative, researchers of Chinese descent have been scrutinized with their cases repeatedly dismissed.

For example, a few weeks ago, Dr. Anming Hu, an engineering professor at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, was acquitted of federal charges. Hu had been wrongfully accused of hiding a relationship with a Chinese university while receiving research grants from NASA, a judge ruled. Following the acquittal and pressure from faculty, the University of Tennessee offered to reinstate Hu.

Experts say confusions remain rampant around what Chinese ties researchers are supposed to disclose to the government with regard to federal funding. This has sparked widespread concern among advocates that the still-active China Initiative does not protect national security so much as infringe on civil liberties.

“How do we ensure we protect intellectual property in the right way? Because our civil liberties are important,” said Huang. “We need to make sure that national origins and ethnicities don’t play a role.”

The study’s results underscored how fears of surveillance by the U.S. government have also been slowing down or halting research collaborations with partners in China. The authors pointed out that this chilling effect risks hurting rather than helping the country’s global competitiveness.

“We were able to demonstrate that this also has a broader effect on the U.S.’s ability to continue to be a leader in global science,” said Lee. “There are multiple accounts of individuals who are less inclined to pursue federal grants and to partner with China. Scientists know that science is very global, and so reducing your work to domestic knowledge and domestic data raises concerns.”

Lee additionally said that the study found many scientists are considering leaving the U.S. in part due to that climate of fear. And that could spell a huge loss to the country.

“This was mostly among graduate students and postdocs already on temporary visas,” said Lee. “But I was surprised to also see comments from American scientists of Chinese descent who felt that they would thrive more in other parts of the world. And that includes China.”

Dr. Ann Chih Lin, an associate professor of public policy at the University of Michigan (UM), ran a similar survey of racial profiling among researchers of Asian descent. But her team surveyed faculty at UM rather than across the country. The results paralleled much of what Lee and the Committee of 100 found in their national study.

“At UM, we found that 64% of faculty surveyed did not feel safe as Chinese-origin academic researchers in the U.S.,” said Lin. “I don’t think our results should be read as a complaint about the university feeling unsafe, but I do think the university has not fully understood the scope of it.”

Like Lee, Lin stressed that the results of both surveys point to the intellectual losses at stake.

“We would like universities to be more proactive in making the case that America’s national and economic security is best assured by continuing to support open science and research rather than engaging in a witch hunt to investigate which people might be suspicious,” said Lin. “That’s shooting ourselves in the foot.”

Rebecca Kelliher can be reached at rkelliher@diverseeducation.com

Kavros posted:

What is actually being said is that the Chinese government is observably trying to coerce, and has produced a lot of stories involving intimidation attempts directed at former residents of China, frequently involving hinted consequences for their families. Any further value judgement of the targets of this attempted intimidation may be a concern but probably the best course of action and the first concern is for the Chinese government to stop being creeps.

no hay camino posted:

Essentially, the Chinese government wants all of their citizens abroad to act as agents of China. A Chinese citizen is a soldier for the Chinese nation.

no hay camino posted:

Yeah, and I can only imagine some Chinese people feel like they're between a rock and a hard place

Kavros posted:

Describing what the Chinese government is trying to do to former residents living abroad (and noting that they could imagine that coercive intimidation attempts can put them in a stressful position) is not racist, but insisting that it has to be through a torture misreading really hits some strongly paternalistic vibe.

Kavros posted:

Jesus christ, no. That's the "any further value judgment" I already pointed out would be bad.

So indeed to be clear: you are terribly misreading the position of others

Herstory Begins Now posted:

that's literally one of the most fantastic, creative misreadings i've ever seen in dnd

Herstory Begins Now posted:

somewhere around 4 I think is where you lose the plot

quote:

However, and this is important, you believe that a worldwide campaign of intimidation executed by a superpower against citizens abroad has resulted in ZERO ACTUAL individuals acting as agents of china. Despite this, they continue to fund this campaign and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

Kavros posted:

Observing through repeated stories that the chinese government is, evidently, trying this strongly enough that many targets of it have stories to tell about it happening to them is not a statement about whether or not it's working, or a claim about knowledge that they intend to continue the program or even see any productive benefit to it, it's just you going off all by yourself.

30.5 Days posted:

30.5 Days posted:

Okay, so what do you believe? Do you believe it's working? Do you believe it's not working and they'll discontinue it soon as a result? I made a guess about your position & asked you to correct me. You've told me I'm wrong but you haven't said anything else. I suspect it's because there's no good answer to this question, and that's my entire point. The belief I ascribed to you is kind of the most generous one possible despite your claim that it was entirely to my own benefit.

A big flaming stink posted:

mate this is just tiresome, just outright tell them you think they're extrapolating way too broadly about efforts on the part of the PRC to restrict capital flight and suppress dissidence (this is also what i think)

30.5 Days posted:

What I actually think is it's all fun & games to sit in here and tell ghost stories about The Evil Empire but the fun stops when they make out that random people going about their lives are Players In The Great Game, which is what this has turned into.

Smeef posted:

The rock is some Chinese rear end in a top hat uber-patriot who makes you uncomfortable by questioning your identity and possibly dangling some sort of threat over you like reporting you to authorities.

The hard place is some American rear end in a top hat uber-patriot who makes you uncomfortable by questioning your identity and possibly dangling some sort of threat over you like reporting you to authorities.

Living with that poo poo would suck. That's the rock and the hard place. It doesn't imply someone is a spy or a double agent or whatever.

How are u posted:

The victims here are Chinese expats, hounded by their own government.

A big flaming stink posted:

and by the american government

How are u posted:

Are Chinese expats being hounded by the US government? If so, I certainly don't condone that.

Protecting actual agents, such as in the article I posted, is another thing altogether.

GlassEye-Boy posted:

[Url] https://www.diverseeducation.com/faculty-staff/article/15280681/study-finds-racial-profiling-of-scientists-of-chinese-descent[/url]