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Are there enough manga in the u19 club to make a football/soccer manga with the protagonists as the players?
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Nov 12, 2021 00:03
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| # ? May 27, 2024 11:55 |
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Adnor posted:Are there enough manga in the u19 club to make a football/soccer manga with the protagonists as the players? Yes, but unless you count ones that intentionally ran as mini series, you can't quite make that team with ones that have been officially localized on the Viz site.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:07
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Interesting thought, do you think One Piece would have survived in modern Jump if it was launching this year? The early arcs in One Piece are much shorter than modern ones, but it doesn't really come together till the later part of Arlong Park which is already 70+ chapters in.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:28
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One Piece has, imo, an incredibly strong first chapter, I think it even with a stacked magazine it probably could hold on long enough to really establish itself. And even if Arlong Park was where it really took off, I still think a lot of the early arcs are quite good, it's just that OP only gets better as it goes so they seem less impressive by comparison.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:35
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Indiana_Krom posted:Interesting thought, do you think One Piece would have survived in modern Jump if it was launching this year? The early arcs in One Piece are much shorter than modern ones, but it doesn't really come together till the later part of Arlong Park which is already 70+ chapters in. I think it would have a good shot, because the characters + setting are fun and charming, there's a clear goal that's setup early, and the protagonist works towards it right off the bat. Yeah we don't get huge cool poo poo like Arlong Park until later on, but we quickly get fun adventures and start building a cast of characters quickly. By chapter 18 we've got multiple interesting mysteries (What happened to Shanks? What is the Grand Line? What is One Piece?), met multiple antagonists (Alvida, the Marines, Buggy + multiple members of his crew), been to multiple unique locations (Marine Base, Orange Town), and met a few interesting protagonists with Zoro and Nami - with both of them having some mysteries to them that implies there's a lot more going on under the hood. I'd say it's somewhat likely it wouldn't be the worldwide phenomenon that it is if it launched today, since its setup is fairly formulaic by today's standards, but it really is a very well-written story that can easily hook people in early. With Neru we have pretty much zero clear goal, no real interesting mysteries, haven't really met any memorable antagonists (they all kind of melt together into "dark haired guy who's better at fighting"), have no memorable locations aside from the school - which isn't even that interesting of a setting since it's kind of just generic school in a forest (I guess the cloth forest thing was a cool setting? but it was more of a fight setpiece). The only place Neru gets points is in protagonists - the girl he looks up to, his classmate girl, and his roommate are decent enough starting points for characters. However none of them are particularly interesting or unique or memorable - I can't even remember their names lol.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:41
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Neru's biggest strength for me was the throwback art style. The rest was just whatever, but I'm sad it got cancelled. Neru & Red Hood both should have gotten a little longer leash just to keep a diversity of art styles in jump, as they were both very interesting & fun to look at.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:45
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Yeah it wouldn't have become cultural juggernaut One Piece but early OP was solid enough that I think it could last unaltered.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:46
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Indiana_Krom posted:Interesting thought, do you think One Piece would have survived in modern Jump if it was launching this year? The early arcs in One Piece are much shorter than modern ones, but it doesn't really come together till the later part of Arlong Park which is already 70+ chapters in. It's a tough question, especially with how much One Piece influenced later manga. That said, I agree it'd have a solid chance. The first chapter is strong, there's a clear goal from the beginning, and the main three characters for the early arcs are all introduced by the end of volume 1, so there's enough of a core dynamic to make the reader interested. It also finishes some stories that feel like adventures before volume 1 is out, something a lot of these U-19s fail to do. That said, it mostly makes me want to go on about how Chainsaw Man is so perfectly optimized an opening for modern Jump, because man. That manga goes, even from the (heh) jump.
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Nov 12, 2021 00:54
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i feel like all the issues with one piece have come so far into the run it is basically insulated from them mattering which i guess is kind of the big 3 thing
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Nov 12, 2021 01:04
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Generally, one way or another, The key to getting a successful manga(past the first cut) is finding a way for people to care about or somehow resonate with the characters in the series. Through charm or plot hooks Like that's why Ghostwriter failed. It's why one piece or any number of other manga would have probably still succeeded if it came out now. People loving loved Luffy and co, People loved Naruto's cast, People either liked or disliked what Light was doing but they wanted to see how'd he get out of this one. Red Hood and Neru couldn't get me to care about the main cast. Pretty art but that's about it Red Hood felt more like Samurai 8 only like without Kishimoto's name and thus longer leash attached to it. Where cool world and clearly the author has talent and ideas. But I just don't give a fuuucking drat about the main cast. So I don't care what they get up to in that world next.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:16
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Mikl posted:Neru was interesting, but ultimately started too slow and didn't have time to develop the original concept. Which, judging by the latest few series, is currently a death sentence for a Jump manga. I remember Bakuman and one of the perspective Mangaka complained about how series always have to be fast paced at the start, because if they take things slow in JUMP they will get canceled. Also stating it's hard to make a story where the protagonist has to grow because editors lose their patience too fast.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:32
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Dexo posted:Generally, one way or another, The key to getting a successful manga(past the first cut) is finding a way for people to care about or somehow resonate with the characters in the series. Through charm or plot hooks I actually think that Ghostwriter, Neru, and Red Hood all demonstrate another problem that One Piece and Chainsaw Man dodge. (I actually kind of liked Aino in Ghostwriter, so I'd even go so far as to say this one is more relevant.) It's basically a chapter 2 problem. In One Piece and Chainsaw Man, the second chapter is a standalone adventure establishing what the protagonist is like once the original initiating incident is done and what kind of stories you can expect going forward. It gives the reader something to hold onto, a promise that even if the long term story doesn't go anywhere amazing, you'll get this kind of fun plot on a regular basis. Meanwhile, in Red Hood, Neru, and Ghostwriter, Chapter 2 doesn't really do anything concrete. You just kind of flail around, without a concrete idea of what future chapters will be like, what plot arcs will do, or anything in that line. I mean, it's not a guarantee either way. You get winners like JJK that didn't go for this setup, and losers like the Hell Warden that did, but in general, a good solid standalone chapter 2 seems to really help a Jump series get going.
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Nov 12, 2021 01:50
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chiasaur11 posted:I actually think that Ghostwriter, Neru, and Red Hood all demonstrate another problem that One Piece and Chainsaw Man dodge. (I actually kind of liked Aino in Ghostwriter, so I'd even go so far as to say this one is more relevant.) If they had changed the main focus on the series to Aino(and not I must continue to do this to save her life), and not made the main character more and more pathetic as the series went on, they might have been able to save the series. But yeah. like chapter 2 of Naruto was I believe a standalone adventure with Konohamaru reinforcing Naruto's drive and character, chapter 2 of OP was Koby and Alvida, Chapter 2 of Bleach was a high school chapter and Ichigo killing a hollow and accepting the duty of the shinigami. To me it's all still, all about finding a way to get you to care about the characters and/or their main goals. Like I generally liked literally every single character introduced in ghostwriter besides the main character, but it was all framed around his struggles. If they had made it more of an ensemble might have had better luck.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:15
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ghostwriter tried to make the mc justified in his ongoing plagiarism in various ways and it simply did not work.
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Nov 12, 2021 02:18
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So I just blazed through basically all of mashle in a day Mashle kicks rear end
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Nov 12, 2021 05:45
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Dexo posted:Generally, one way or another, The key to getting a successful manga(past the first cut) is finding a way for people to care about or somehow resonate with the characters in the series. Through charm or plot hooks A lot of this also comes down to character design. A lot of these cancelled series have great art, but not really distinct art. Gag manga can get away with less distinct art it seems, but "traditional" shounen seem like they can't cut it in WSJ anymore unless they have a really distinct style to them (or are generally really weird like Chainsaw Man or something). edit: Probably the most "generic" successful shounen from recent times that I can think of is Kimetsu no Yaiba, and it still had a pretty distinct art style to it, with a very easily visually recognizable protagonist.
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Nov 12, 2021 08:29
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Indiana_Krom posted:Interesting thought, do you think One Piece would have survived in modern Jump if it was launching this year? The early arcs in One Piece are much shorter than modern ones, but it doesn't really come together till the later part of Arlong Park which is already 70+ chapters in. So I'm critical of One Piece as we all know, but I'm pretty sure it would've survived. Luffy starts out with a clear goal, he wants the One Piece. Why does he want it, to become pirate king. We see him use his weird ability in a creative way. We're immediately see he has a weakness, which has a clear downside for someone who wants to be a pirate. We're told some stuff about the training he went through, though nothing concrete. We have Shanks being set up as a big deal pretty early on as well. There's a lot happening in those first 20 chapters with a bunch of clear hooks. Jerkface posted:Neru's biggest strength for me was the throwback art style. The rest was just whatever, but I'm sad it got cancelled. Neru & Red Hood both should have gotten a little longer leash just to keep a diversity of art styles in jump, as they were both very interesting & fun to look at. chiasaur11 posted:I actually think that Ghostwriter, Neru, and Red Hood all demonstrate another problem that One Piece and Chainsaw Man dodge. (I actually kind of liked Aino in Ghostwriter, so I'd even go so far as to say this one is more relevant.)
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Nov 12, 2021 09:58
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If you don't have a protagonist that leaves a reasonably strong impression in the first chapter you're in trouble imo. that seems to be the big thing.
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Nov 12, 2021 13:49
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red hood tried to do that thing where the character from the first chapter who was actually striking and interesting had the protagonist role stolen by the boring short kid. but really, it was never good enough for meta genre subversions to begin with.
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Nov 12, 2021 13:53
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Ytlaya posted:A lot of this also comes down to character design. A lot of these cancelled series have great art, but not really distinct art. Yozakura Family is probably the most generic recently successful Shonen. It's art isn't anything special, it's technically competent, but it's good(I like it) because the characters are fun, the scenarios are good fodder for those characters, and it's got a unique hook of the mc and heroine being actually 8n a relationship and married. It is a series entirely being carried by the author's ability to get you to like/care about the characters.
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Nov 12, 2021 15:51
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One Piece also managed growing the core cast really well by having organic reasons in the story as to why they had to be introduced one at a time. I've seen a lot of shonen manga that HAVE to introduce a giant cast because they take place at a school/school analogue and I definitely care less about people in a story that I'm less familiar with. I think that Sakamoto Days has handled growing the cast well but Neru introduced too many people too quickly and didn't give me a reason to care about them.
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Nov 12, 2021 16:32
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Nihilarian posted:still pretty salty about Marry Grave's ending Speaking of them! https://twitter.com/batta_comic/status/1456570529129766918 new serialization starting near the end of the month!!
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Nov 13, 2021 02:05
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Sharkopath posted:Speaking of them! I hope that 1. it is good and 2. it is successful
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Nov 13, 2021 02:21
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https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1011891 Ayashimon's first chapter is out and it loving owns also has a big ol' oof moment
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Nov 14, 2021 16:21
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That was pretty fun yeah. Here's the cover of the magazine too https://twitter.com/wsj_manga/status/1459899012497215488?s=21
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Nov 14, 2021 16:34
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And the color spread https://twitter.com/WSJ_manga/status/1459904930660110342?t=oFvM5XIaJnA0LBWDpBxkiQ&s=19
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Nov 14, 2021 16:38
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    It's cool.
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Nov 14, 2021 16:38
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Oh Snapple! posted:it loving owns
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Nov 14, 2021 16:40
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weeks of discussion about how neru and red hood were okay, maybe and then the replacement was dynamite.
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Nov 14, 2021 16:42
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big week for absurdly abusive parents.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:18
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Ayashimon’s first chapter was a banger and I hope will be able to keep up that energy. If so it was totally worth Neru and Red Hood getting cancelled (I wasn’t a fan of Red Hood anyway). Neru’s final chapter was hilarious because it’s like “here’s the characters 5 years from now even though you don’t care one bit about them” Neru was okay but never went beyond “meh”
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Nov 14, 2021 17:26
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Ayashimon was really good but this week's Witch Watch was also a lot of fun. Just an excuse to take the piss out of a bunch of cliche characters.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:28
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finally moi has met a foe that pushes him like never before. now it is time for a (tsukkomi) training arc.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:32
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 ayashimon comes out of the gate at full speed looks like some of the demons he fought were traditional yokai amikiri 
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Nov 14, 2021 17:37
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Yeah, speaking of first chapters needing to introduce main characters with a good hook, Ayashimon really got my attention. I liked the throwback style of Neru being a 90s martial artist kinda vibe, but the protagonist's motivations were really hazy compared to Maruo One Punch Man-ing himself into being a superhuman freak of nature because he wanted to wreck his abusive dad, developing an insatiable lust for violence, and wanting to be a good guy in spite of it all. It's pretty compelling and there's a lot of places to go with that.
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Nov 14, 2021 17:38
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The Skeep posted:big week for absurdly abusive parents. Abusive parents and references to other manga (the cat in Ayakashi was reading Roboco).
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Nov 14, 2021 17:39
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Sharkopath posted:
what if: shizuo heiwajima was rude no, ruder than that
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Nov 14, 2021 17:41
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Oh Snapple! posted:https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1011891 Well I liked the author's previous series well enough even though it went on a bit too long. So I'm on board with this one and this is one heck of a way to endear me to the main character. chiasaur11 posted:I actually think that Ghostwriter, Neru, and Red Hood all demonstrate another problem that One Piece and Chainsaw Man dodge. (I actually kind of liked Aino in Ghostwriter, so I'd even go so far as to say this one is more relevant.) If I can find the image again there's actually a poll of some kind showing that the number of views of Red Hood chapters climbed from chapters 1 to 2 and then nosedive harder than [insert thing that nosedived hard here] and it was basically on lifesupport the rest of it's run. There's a lot to be taken from Red hood in post mortem but the value of a solid followup to a decent or good first chapter cannot be overlooked and I think most people agree that staying in the Hamlet was a mistake in the long run.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:23
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*Author's note: this is not a real Kamehameha
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Nov 14, 2021 18:28
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I dunno Jack poo poo about the Ayashimon author’s last work but I’m super onboard to watch this weird hosed up shonen protagonist find a world where he can live his best life (by brutally massacring demons) and also maybe learn how to do all the cool moves his favorite heroes do for real like the Kamehameha and whatever the move is when Kenshiro implodes a guy real good.
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Nov 14, 2021 18:29
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