|
Unfortunately the sequel trilogy is a lot of baggage to just ignore.
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2021 01:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 09:23 |
|
|
Finished Joiner King today, and coming off of NJO this first book.....existed. It wasn't terrible, wasn't really good either. Maybe my opinion will change going forward but i don't see how it might. The most interesting aspect is being a follow up to the state of the galaxy after the Vong invasion and suprise! It's still hosed up! Lets ignore all of that and mess with the freaky sex bugs. I also noticed a kind of trend that the Jedi characters get to go up against impossible odds and win because they are Jedi or maybe they die to drive home a point in the story like some of the deaths in NJO. The opposite kinda happens whenever it's Han and Leia though, they generally handle themselves pretty well but whenever things are truly hosed they usually have some extra help of Landos OP battle droid or maybe some supporting Jedi characters around to help them. Or both at the end of this book where everybody is getting their Starship Troopers on and Luke and Mara are a Force Whirlwind of Death and Destruction meanwhile Han and Leia have 2 battle droids and 5 Jedi Masters with them. I wonder if they will make it or not 
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
i mean it's luke han and leia. since the very first EU book there's been absolutely no tension at all when they get into danger - chewie's date with a moon was, i guess, intended to inject some stakes back into the EU by indicating that characters aren't invincible just because they were in the movies, but basically none of the authors really tried hard enough to make you feel concerned for the big three.
|
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 04:45
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:i mean it's luke han and leia. since the very first EU book there's been absolutely no tension at all when they get into danger - chewie's date with a moon was, i guess, intended to inject some stakes back into the EU by indicating that characters aren't invincible just because they were in the movies, but basically none of the authors really tried hard enough to make you feel concerned for the big three. My complaint is less "oh it's the characters from the movies i like i wonder if they will live" and more "huh, these writers only have like one way to insure the characters from the movies i like don't die don't they?" I'm sure before Landos SBD's where a thing it was just Luke doing something stupidly bullshit with the force that saves all their asses yet again. A bit of a stark contrast to the X-Wing books where most anybody could and most likely would die as part of the job of a starfighter pilot. Unless you were Corran of course. The Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 10, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 10, 2021 05:01
|
|
|
I'm so glad to see the back of Force Heretic. There's a decent book buried across the trilogy, but it's so stretched out that even the interesting stuff just drags. Pretty much the entire last book consists of just a handful of scenes somehow extended over 400 pages; and unlike, say, Traitor, there's not even any particularly interesting characterization or ideas being explored to fill that space. Half the story is about exploring the mysterious Unknown Regions to find a living planet and convince it to join the war, you'd think that would be much cooler and provide the opportunity for some great science fiction. Fortunately now I'm onto The Final Prophecy, and only a few chapters in it's already significantly better. Finally on the home stretch!
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 15:39
|
|
|
I've been enjoying your recaps, especially since my library only had half the NJO so there were whole plot threads I only ever knew from other books referencing them. Did you get to Traitor yet, or are you just mentioning it from having read it before?
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
Thanks! Yeah, I did Traitor on this read through (and had read it before), I just didn't post about it or any of the others between Dark Journey and Destiny's Way because I got lazy and didn't have much to say besides "They're good". Dark Journey is the weakest one in there, but it's still pretty fun, even if it ends very suddenly. Enemy Lines, Traitor, and Destiny's Way are all excellent; the latter in particular I feel doesn't get as much attention as it deserves, and I really wish Walter Jon Williams had come back again. Keyes too; they just get Star Wars, both the universe itself and capturing that epic space opera vibe that the movies have at their best. Weirdly enough, Destiny's Way is also the only NJO book to even mention Nom Anor's first appearance in Crimson Empire II.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
Yeah, I always think Walter Jon Williams doesn't get enough credit. He comes into the second half of a major EU series only tangentially related to the movies, and he just knocks it out of the park. Even going so far as to make some of those less-made connections to Crimson Empire or YJK that other authors didn't, despite this being his first Star Wars book. Plus, in terms of EU space battles, I think the Battle of Ebaq is really well developed. Destiny's Way is a pleasure to read all around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Huh, Unseen Queen isn't really much better than Joiner King no wonder nobody really likes this series it's kinda bor- DID JACEN just get his sister and all his friends to commit some terrorism and possibly some warcrimes?!?!?! Oh god how much worse does this get? Also considering the Legends timeline didn't go for too much longer after this i'm going to assume whatever they might have wanted to do with Jacen and Tenel Ka's kid doesn't amount to anything? Unless that's something that comes up in Legacy or something
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 03:38
|
|
|
Legends timeline goes on 9 more years, but there’s no real character development going on so it won’t seem much like it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
The Shame Boy posted:Oh god how much worse does this get? Also considering the Legends timeline didn't go for too much longer after this i'm going to assume whatever they might have wanted to do with Jacen and Tenel Ka's kid doesn't amount to anything? Unless that's something that comes up in Legacy or something You can tell Troy Denning had a whole route planned out in his head for that character, much of which would probably have been terrible, but it never gets to that point. Also, as the books go on, they have a strange relationship with the Legacy comics. Some of the book authors do incorporate nods to the comics, but Denning really did not like them (because they limited his ability to be the arbiter of what Star Wars was going forward) so he explicitly stated that he didn't view them as canon and some of his later books goes out of its way to contradict stuff in the comic. Also speaking of the character in question, it still really makes me laugh how at the time there was a regular poster on TFN who insisted after the first book that Jacen and Tenel didn't actually gently caress, that when she asked him to stay the night she really meant just to talk with him, and this guy kept beating this drum up until the kid reveal. Unsurprisingly this poster was also a huge Traviss fan and a self-described Catholic fascist.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2021 12:38
|
|
|
Would yall recommend i read the Legacy of the Force comics instead of the books then? Or is it more of an either or thing? Man did Swarm War...exist. Exisiting to tie up a loose end from NJO and for Troy Denning to ruin every Jaina and Jag fans hopes and dreams  . The most interesting bit was all of Jacen's development and building on how he ends up being what he is. I remember when i first read this series and all i could really focus on is "lol OG series characters reacting to the bad writing of the prequels" but re-reading it now and comparing Jacen to Anakin (which Jacen even does himself in the book) is a little...worrying.
The Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Nov 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2021 22:36
|
|
|
The Shame Boy posted:Would yall recommend i read the Legacy of the Force comics instead of the books then? Or is it more of an either or thing?
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2021 22:45
|
|
|
You know this started for me as a casual re-reading of the X-Wing series and deciding to just keep going chronologically to the end as a fun goof. Said Goof has lead to me reading NJO for the first time and seeing how overall great these old stories could be and Swarm War was very much the average/below average experience. Considering i'm so close to the end of everything and it only goes farther downhill from here i am tempted to do it just so that i can say i did. Even if that kind of accomplishment means less now than it did even 10 years ago when these things were still semi- canon Since it comes so highly recommended maybe i'll do alphabet squadron or something after i've finished Legends off, just for a pallet cleanser. The Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2021 22:53
|
|
|
The Shame Boy posted:You know this started for me as a casual re-reading of the X-Wing series and deciding to just keep going chronologically to the end as a fun goof. Said Goof has lead to me reading NJO for the first time and seeing how overall great these old stories could be and Swarm War was very much the average/below average experience. Considering i'm so close to the end of everything and it only goes farther downhill from here i am tempted to do it just so that i can say i did. Even if that kind of accomplishment means less now than it did even 10 years ago when these things were still semi- canon I'd love to hear your opinion on the Legacy of the Force series, especially the end book. Even as a stupid teenager, I knew it was a crappy book. The series after that, Fate of the Jedi is where I tapped out of the EU and haven't touched it since.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:04
|
|
|
Legacy of the Force is truly godawful, I remember even as a teenager disliking it. The tug of war with Denning and Allston vs Traviss over the plot threads was exhausting. The Legacy comics on the other hand rule. Especially Gar Starzi, the best character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
Yeah i'm especially not looking forward to revisiting Karen Traviss' work. Even being the target demographic for the Republic Commando books i thought they were decent enough but eye rollingly stupid in a few places at the time of release. Knowing what she ended up becoming between Legacy and The Gears of War novel though... I'm gonna put myself in The Embrace of Pain and i don't know if i'm gonna come out more like Shadao Shai or Traitor era Jacen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
There’s only two books after FOTJ. Mercy Kill which is an alright Wraith Squadron book except for the baggage it adopts from FOTJ. It was Allston’s last book before passing away too so there’s that. Then there’s Crucible which was Denning’s last book, released shortly before the Disney sale went through. I bought it on Audible expecting to hate-listen and return it, but it ended up not being that bad, even for someone who hates his work. Word is he was told to wrap things up midway through writing it because of the impending sale, but he ultimately failed to do that. Vestara and Ship are still running around at the end of the book. I loving hate Ship, just another element of LOTF Denning refuses to let die. Ironically Luke, Han, and Leia decide at the end of the book that they need to step back and let the younger generation deal with more stuff on their own, which is what the NJO was supposed to be the start of. 16 years of in-universe time later and they finally begin the process just in time for Legends to end.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:17
|
|
|
Oh yeah, Crucible, forgot I read that, albeit it was many years later after I'd stopped reading EU stuff. The fact I forgot I read it is a review in and of itself
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:29
|
|
|
The Shame Boy posted:Since it comes so highly recommended maybe i'll do alphabet squadron or something after i've finished Legends off, just for a pallet cleanser. I was pretty down on the first Alphabet Squadron book, but ended up reading the other two and really enjoyed those. The biggest problem with the first one is that it takes forever to get to the premise. It makes you really appreciate how the X-Wing books get going after, at most, two chapters of setup. The character stuff that's paid off in the next two books is worth it, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 00:48
|
|
|
yeah crucible isn't awful. take out the ship called ship, etc etc and it could have been an average bantam-era book
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 01:07
|
|
|
Rochallor posted:I was pretty down on the first Alphabet Squadron book, but ended up reading the other two and really enjoyed those. The biggest problem with the first one is that it takes forever to get to the premise. It makes you really appreciate how the X-Wing books get going after, at most, two chapters of setup. The character stuff that's paid off in the next two books is worth it, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 01:14
|
|
|
The Shame Boy posted:Would yall recommend i read the Legacy of the Force comics instead of the books then? Or is it more of an either or thing? It's not quite an either/or thing, but I would definitely recommend just going straight to the Legacy comics. They were developed the same time as Bug Trilogy/LOTF and as such can be read after them, especially as a major aspect of the Legacy comics is the continuing fallout of the Vong invasion on the galaxy even a century later, whereas the books completely sweep the effects away. Plus, I found it really fun to actually see Yuuzhan Vong in visual form (far more than the terrible Invasion comic, keep away from that also). As I recall, there is an issue of the Legacy comic that calls back directly to Legacy of the Force but you don't really need to have read the books to understand it. Legacy Volume II is very different, and it ends very suddenly as a victim of the Disney buyout (as I recall, it was announced just after the Disney purchase so its rug was pulled out from it from the start) but I think it's still worth reading, especially because by chance it almost reads like an alternate version of The Force Awakens: the main cast is a Black Imperial trooper who goes rogue, his spherical droid sidekick, and the Force-sensitive junkyard girl they team up with. Also a pretty cool IG droid character.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
I never touched Legacy because I didn’t care for the the massive time jump inevitably hemming in future authors. Or Luke’s edgy decedent Cade who’s into drugs. I do like the idea of the Vobg invasion having some serious fallout effects though. Other than Scut in Mercy Kill and some occasional throwaway dialogue this galaxy spanning conflict that killed trillions might as well of never happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 02:36
|
|
|
There's a lot of stuff in the Legacy comic that I wish they expanded on a bit more. Hondo Karr's storyline weaves through the whole thing, but his quest to kill Mand'alor just sort of gets declared and then the comic ends.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
One of the problems with the Legacy comic was that it was intended to go on longer, but at the time the editors at Dark Horse decided that series had to end at issue 50. This was also the case with KOTOR, it was planned to go on longer but got forced into ending at very short notice. Legacy at least was given a six issue miniseries to wrap things up somewhat more substantively. I have no idea what compelled Dark Horse to do that at the time but this was the era when IMO their Star Wars work at least really started to decline in quality.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 02:57
|
|
|
KOTOR got the War five issue to sort of wrap things up, but it wasn't a great way to do it and it doesn't really tell you what happened that was so important that Carrick station was a thing that exists 300 years later. I give them a lot of leeway with the late stuff for having the rug pulled, but even then it was still just a weak ending to the best Star Wars comics to date TBH.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 03:38
|
|
|
Since they’ve shown some internet in the KOTOR era with the remaster being announced, what I’d really like to see is a retelling of Tales of the Jedi at a much more reasonable scale. It was a cool concept but it’s too laser focused on the major characters, and these big important events happen in the space of a page or two.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2021 03:50
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:I've only read the first two and TBH I'm not super into reading the third when I get a change. I don't know what it is about it exactly, but the characters irritate me. So I’ve decided to start picking up the new Star Wars books post Disney acquisition and “the characters irritate me” seems to be a running theme in literally every single book. So far the only character I like was some side character general who told Mon Mothma “you want to disarm? We’re still fighting a war and You realize having no capability to enforce its edicts is part of why the old republic fell apart so spectacularly right?” But I guess they had to explain why the rebranded empire was still very much a going concern despite unequivocally collapsing in the new trilogy while still being distinct from legends which actually made some kind of sense. I definitely prefer how legends handled it, warlords and remnants that are still very much a thing 20 years later vs “they hated off into the boonies and now they are back and nobody but a plucky band of folks cares”.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 16:24
|
|
|
Starting in the spring, Dark Horse is back to publishing Star Wars comics: https://www.starwars.com/news/dark-horse-comics-announce Seems like they're taking the place of the IDW comics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 20:54
|
|
|
Anyone got any idea why Disney isn't so hot anymore on making their Star Wars comics in-house through Marvel?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
They're still firing out the regular series, they just farmed out the "kid friendly" stuff to other comics companies.Rhymenoserous posted:So I’ve decided to start picking up the new Star Wars books post Disney acquisition and “the characters irritate me” seems to be a running theme in literally every single book.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
Slashrat posted:Anyone got any idea why Disney isn't so hot anymore on making their Star Wars comics in-house through Marvel? The majority, like 90%, of them are still through Marvel.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2021 23:14
|
|
|
Not sure what the canon status of the gacha mobile game Galaxy of Heroes is, but if it's treated as canon as any other non-movie work then the Dash Rendar fans should be very happy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:They're still firing out the regular series, they just farmed out the "kid friendly" stuff to other comics companies. It's funny because I actually found the personal arcs of Yrica and Chass especially to be super compelling and unlike the characterization found in most of the SW novels released so far. They both have issues that I could see categorized as "annoying" but their latent trauma at the very least explains it and makes it interesting to watch play out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
Arquinsiel posted:Not sure what the canon status of the gacha mobile game Galaxy of Heroes is, but if it's treated as canon as any other non-movie work then the Dash Rendar fans should be very happy. It's not even close to canon. Or at least, none of the characters you fight as in the game are. The "story", such as it is, is that you're playing with hologram characters fighting each other. Which is how, for example, you can get a team of several different Hans fighting for you (regular Han, Hoth gear Han, young Han Solo, old Han Solo, etc.). So anyone who shows up in game doesn't count. This "Dash Rendar" could be a fictional character in universe. And that's if the world you're playing the game in even counts, which is likely a gigantic "no". Like, the game has both Light Side AND Dark Side Revan. Same for Bastilla. It's not canon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
I think Rendar was in one or two of the Solo tie-in books, so he has been brought back into canon. Same with the Outrider.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:It's not even close to canon. Or at least, none of the characters you fight as in the game are. The "story", such as it is, is that you're playing with hologram characters fighting each other. Which is how, for example, you can get a team of several different Hans fighting for you (regular Han, Hoth gear Han, young Han Solo, old Han Solo, etc.). So anyone who shows up in game doesn't count. This "Dash Rendar" could be a fictional character in universe. And that's if the world you're playing the game in even counts, which is likely a gigantic "no".
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 16:44
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:I think Rendar was in one or two of the Solo tie-in books, so he has been brought back into canon. Same with the Outrider. New Solo books? Like, post buy-out? Which ones, out of curiosity? Arquinsiel posted:It could be a canon post-sequel game in the universe, but TBH I don't think they thought it through even that hard. Right, it's like, "Maybe it's an in-universe game with some real characters and some in-universe fictional characters, but it's best not to think too hard about it. I love the game, but it's not a canon thing at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 17:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 09:23 |
|
|
thrawn527 posted:New Solo books? Like, post buy-out? Which ones, out of curiosity? There have been a few Han-centric books and comics since the buyout, but the one with Rendar wasn't a novel sadly, it was one of those Jason Fry in-universe document books. I think it established that Rendar was just off-screen in the snow planet in Solo where Han and Lando first met. Speaking of IDW, one of my favorite Han/Chewie stories was a comic they put out a few years ago which featured Chewie trying to have a relaxing day at a spa while Han dealt with gangsters in a casino. It was just a one-shot, but I thought its focus on Chewie, as well as him just trying to have a normal day, was a nice change of pace from almost every story with them in it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2021 23:24
|
|