[BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

«‹›737 »

RC Cola: Aug 1, 2011; Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

My take on the show series vs the book is that the show takes place on another turning of the wheel. So I can just fully ignore any differences between books/show. Its just another telling of the same story

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 4, 2024 05:58

Hexel: Nov 18, 2011

ONE YEAR LATER posted:

I know realistically this is a better option because they're based in Prague for the filming but I've always pictured the Waste as being more like Arizona/New Mexico with the buttes, the cacti, and the corn.

Morocco ↑ countryside

I was just guessing what location he's scouting for but deserts are not all sand :shrug:

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:36

ONE YEAR LATER: Apr 13, 2004; Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!; Oven Wrangler

Valentin posted:

I understand why they made this change, but it's sort of darkly funny that everyone involved apparently agrees that audiences would have been confused by Perrin having issues with violence. Clearly, there's absolutely no good reason you might find it traumatizing or troubling to take a life, and we absolutely can't leave it to the acting and directing to convey anything about what he's thinking. Just doesn't make sense without a dead wife.

I get what you're saying and I overall agree, however the language of TV shows/movies tells audiences that violence in defense of your life, or against "bad guys" is morally justifiable. Changing it so Perrin takes the life of someone he cares about instead of some random whitecloak mooks gives him a more personal reason to be reluctant to do violence and potentially lose control because he might end up hurting someone else he loves.

What they should do is have the same actor who played his wife also play Faile. :v:

Hexel posted:

I was just guessing what location he's scouting for but deserts are not all sand

I don't see no buttes or cacti in that picture :colbert:

ONE YEAR LATER fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 23, 2021

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:37

Valentin: Sep 16, 2012

CainFortea posted:

In the fantasy setting, it would be kinda weird to have a character doing violence and being bothered by it.

I'd suggest it has substantially less to do with the fantasy setting (he grew up in a bucolic farming town anyways) and more to do with the foundational assumption in most modern media that doing violence to other people is clean, easy, and non-traumatizing. That's well past a fantasy assumption, it's also the assumption of 90% of video games and action films.

It's extra funny because the scene actually does demonstrate wordlessly that Perrin finds the violence he carries out alienating and disorienting (the ringing in his ears, etc.), it's just that they assume audiences will never accept that as a reason not to kill. Real "shinji's a coward for not wanting to get in the robot" type vibes, to change media and genre entirely.

E: to be clear, I don't consider it a failure of the writing or anything (though I think Sanderson's suggestion to use Luhhan was much stronger and didn't invent a woman to fridge), inasmuch as it's a practical decision they made in response to assumed audience expectations. It's just funny that the conversation starts from a premise of "obviously we all know everyone thinks killing people is fine and normal, so we have to write around that."

Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Nov 23, 2021

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:38

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Collateral posted:

All I am getting is clickbait (the taint of the internet).

I'm going to spoiler this as I really don't know if it will spoil anything but with an abundance of caution. Bit of a rant tbh.

Something that had bothered me in the books to an extent, but looks like being a bigger thing in the show is: Why do any of the sovereign nation state tolerate the Children at all, like they are an extra judicial, independent armed paramilitary force that has zero qualms committing atrocity after atrocity. Yet they operate with impunity. No King, Queen or High Lord worth their position would put up with it. They would be hunted down mercilessly. A bounty put on their heads and outlawed. There is no central religious authority like the Catholic Church in this world to give them any legitimacy. Andor on its own could scour the world of them. The white tower even let them camp outside Tar Valon and threaten the Aes Sedai with burning. Why? Tar Valon is a city of 500,000 inhabitants with a guard to match. They don't have to kill them, just put a bounty on their heads and let nature take its course. That doesn't break the 3 oaths, I'm sure.

The series shows a lot of this. Part of it is that the Whitecloaks only have actual authority in one country where they've basically supplanted the local rulers. Every time we see whitecloaks outside of Amadicia, it's either somewhere with very weak local government or somewhere where there is a lot of political turmoil that the whitecloaks are trying to exploit to expand their power.

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:41

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Rarity posted:

Meera Syal is goddam perfect casting for Verin

No she's Lanfear

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:47

KOGAHAZAN!!: Apr 29, 2013; a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

It is very weird to me that people say that Perrin doesn't really come together until later on. Mat, sure, but Perrin?

He's on his poo poo very early on. His first POV is in the Eye of the World, coming out of Shadar Logoth, and from then until the gang meet back up again in Caemlyn his is one of the book's two main plot threads. He's got a whole little adventure of his own there- fleeing across the Caralain Grass with Egwene, debating violence with Eylas and the Tuatha'an, fighting and getting captured by Whitecloaks.

Hunt gives him less time but he still has the little thread of taking over for Hurin under Ingtar.

Then in the TDR he's... you probably can't claim the main POV but definitely a major one, as the guy who's left to narrate the chase after Rand goes AWOL. During which journey he finds a feral wolfguy in a cage, ~~falls in love (?)~~ attracts a horny teen, and attempts to find peace with the hammer before once again being forced to take up the axe.

And of course in TSR he fights an entire war in the Two Rivers.

Perrin's arc gets so much done in the first four books Jordan has to give him the Fires of Heaven off so other characters can catch up. You could probably argue that his arc is totally complete by the end of TSR, and that's why the Rescue Faile arc feels like such a wheel spinning exercise.

KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 23, 2021

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:48

seaborgium: Aug 1, 2002; "Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The series shows a lot of this. Part of it is that the Whitecloaks only have actual authority in one country where they've basically supplanted the local rulers. Every time we see whitecloaks outside of Amadicia, it's either somewhere with very weak local government or somewhere where there is a lot of political turmoil that the whitecloaks are trying to exploit to expand their power.

There's a lot of lessening power among the kingdoms as well. Andor is doing ok and even they've lost a bunch of land because they just don't have the people or the power to enforce their laws there. Though even the Whitecloaks won't actually do anything inside of Andor proper, the Queen's Guard can and will gently caress them right up.

The whole world is in decline, and lovely people start stepping up to grab what power they can.

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:52

His Divine Shadow: Aug 7, 2000; I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

Nitrousoxide posted:

To a blacksmith, a hammer is definitely a tool of creation.

I do some blacksmithing too (eventually I wanna make my own axes and hammers), so I definitely see that point. To me they are both tools of creation, in their own ways. And both work as weapons too.

latinotwink1997 posted:

Ok, I�m listening.

Annnnd you lost me.

Debating the axe is not an instrument of destruction and then your first example being the destruction of a life form really wasn�t the best. The rest worked fairly well though, the differences between a wood axe and a bearded axe notwithstanding.

I don't really consider it destruction I guess. More like harvesting. And bearded axes can be woodworking instruments as noted.

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:53

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

Valentin posted:

I'd suggest it has substantially less to do with the fantasy setting (he grew up in a bucolic farming town anyways) and more to do with the foundational assumption in most modern media that doing violence to other people is clean, easy, and non-traumatizing. That's well past a fantasy assumption, it's also the assumption of 90% of video games and action films.

It's extra funny because the scene actually does demonstrate wordlessly that Perrin finds the violence he carries out alienating and disorienting (the ringing in his ears, etc.), it's just that they assume audiences will never accept that as a reason not to kill. Real "shinji's a coward for not wanting to get in the robot" type vibes, to change media and genre entirely.

E: to be clear, I don't consider it a failure of the writing or anything (though I think Sanderson's suggestion to use Luhhan was much stronger and didn't invent a woman to fridge), inasmuch as it's a practical decision they made in response to assumed audience expectations. It's just funny that the conversation starts from a premise of "obviously we all know everyone thinks killing people is fine and normal, so we have to write around that."

Yea, I was agreeing and saying it would be weird given how things usually play out. I will say that it's still more common in fantasy, at the very least because of the inclusion of so many literal monsters.

I will say though, *technically* they didn't invent her. She existed in the books, but is never seen "on screen". Just referenced by Perrin.

Although I also agree with Sanderson that killing anyone was too far as well as fridging a wife.

# ? Nov 23, 2021 17:55

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~